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Old 10-09-2014, 03:01 AM
MattCaspermeyer MattCaspermeyer is offline
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Join Date: Aug 2010
Posts: 553
Lightbulb Let's keep brainstorming ideas...

I hear you, but unfortunately, I have not found another way to do it with respect to the constraints I've imposed and I've really been trying, believe me.

Here are all the problems that I've tried to solve with Bagyr with this mod:
  • No good units at start and in Tristrem - most Orc troops are very weak compared to Undead / Demon variants, the best troop, Veteran Orcs, does have a chance to have a few more sold in the shop, but the chance is 25%.
  • Leadership too low - he'll only have about 400 Leadership @Level 5 by the time he's at the Shelter so at most he can command 2 to 4 level 4 troops depending on their leadership.
  • Very low mana - unmodded game he'd have 16 Mana by the time you got to the shelter.
  • No shops after Tristrem - no way to get any troops to augment his starting troops after leaving this place until the Shelter and those troops are pretty much no help.
  • No spells to aid that path - Slow and Haste do nothing to really help solve this problem.
I've tried to use the following constraints for Bagyr:
  • Use only Orc troops
  • Use spells / abilities that do not require a lot of Mana and actually are useful in the goal of no loss
  • Use Skills that are selectable from runes acquired during level up that aid in achieving no loss
Considering the above, though, this mod fixes a lot of the problems I identified above:
  • No good units at start and in Tristrem - gives at least 1 of each level 4 Orc unit as well as at least 2 of each level 3 Orc unit. This gives great variability to your starting lineup.
  • Leadership too low - I didn't necessarily fix this issue, but I do provide sufficient troops in the Troll shop to at least maximize 2 out of the 5 troop stacks you decide to use going forward to the shelter.
  • Very low mana - the Clay Bowl gives +5 Mana and +6 with Meditation so you should have at least 21 Mana once you get to the Shelter.
  • No shops after Tristrem - improved the Troll shop so that you can buy some good stuff before traveling onward that should really help with your predicament.
  • No spells to aid that path - Trap does a great job to help Bagyr with using his army / available skills to at least do no loss impossible.
Let's face it, you have to use Diversion, which I know Neoline uses as well and even Daert will pick it, too, but that's really all we got to work with when using the above constraints.

The only other ideas I got are to break one or more of the above constraints. There are probably a number of level 4 units you can add to the shop to help you with going forward: Neutrals such as Assassins, Beholders, and Royal Griffins; Lizards such as Brontors, Choshas, and Highterants; perhaps even Vikings with Valkyrie's. You'd probably also need the Gifts spell since with 16 Mana you could cast it once on one of those troops and you could then use their charged ability 3 more times.

That's about the only other way I think you could give Bagyr a chance - we're really boxed into a corner on this one due to the weakness of the Warrior's Might Tree for the first few skills - not a single one helps, the weakness of the Orc troops in general, and the lack of no spells and Mana.

Let's face it, though, people are going to pick Diversion anyway since it is the only useful path early for pretty much Warrior or Paladin and you have the runes to do it. So I think this funnels our early choices and we'll end up picking it anyway.

That leaves us with changing the Might Tree to give you some good bonuses with the first and second tier skills that are appealing alternatives to the Spirit Tree. Things such as Start Defense from TL might be good if you could get 40% Physical resistance (probably have it last 1 round for each point in it) for a few rounds. I'd go with +10% / 1 round, +20% / 2 rounds, +40% / 3 or 4 rounds for levels 1 through 3. Endurance could possibly be changed to this. Should have enough Runes to get it to level 3 by the time you were Level 5. We could also add 200, 500, and 1000 Leadership to a skill, which would be huge early in the game! Or perhaps you get +100 for each point in the first row of Might Skills. This would encourage you to pick them, the trick though is that you'd only be able to max out 2 out of the 5 stacks after Tristrem from the Troll shop. Although, I guess if you have 1000+ Leadership worth of Spiders / Snakes maybe using the eggs in the Catacombs would be enticing if you could somehow keep those fragile troops from losing a unit. Once again, Physical Resistance during the first couple of rounds might be a really good idea.

See if we can keep these constraints:
  • Use only Orc troops
  • Use spells / abilities that do not require a lot of Mana and actually are useful in the goal of no loss
  • Prefer Might Tree Skills
Try to think of some Might Tree Skill changes that might help Bagyr - that's really the problem we're dealing with here. I think the above unit selection is sufficient, but we really need more than +Attack / +Defense bonuses from the Might Tree otherwise there is no reason to pick any of those skills and we need Bagyr to have a stronger army than Neoline's if we're not going to use the Trapper Medal / Diversion route.

/C\/C\

Last edited by MattCaspermeyer; 10-10-2014 at 08:40 AM.
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