[FC99]

Originally Posted by RegRag1977

Exactly, but please read until the end: how to "use energy tactics (diving extension/pitch back) to DEFEAT a double superior opponenent". Key words are "defeat" and "double superior" opponent. Note he did not say how to defeat a noob pilot, which anyway would be completely pointless. Note also that the purpose of Shaw book is not about collecting impression: it is rather a scientific corpus of methods and techniques.

Shaw's book is not intended for kindergarten kids, some comprehension ability and familiarity with BFM,ACM and physics in general are prerequisites for understanding the book. Reading it from the beginning helps too, especially if you read it all, not just a parts you like and conveniently forget everything that doesn't suit your agenda.

Climbing extension/pitch-back tactics cannot be expected to work for
the inferior fighter in this scenario, since the opponent has a Ps advantage.
The other energy tactics discussed, which are intended to bleed the bogey's
energy with a nose-to-tail turn (or nose-to-nose in the case of a very small
bogey or one equipped with all-aspect missiles), can still be effective
against an inexperienced or a careless opponent.

+

The following episode, found in Thunderbolt! by the World War II
USAAF ace Robert S. Johnson, is one of the best examples available of the
use of energy tactics (diving extension/pitch-back) to defeat a doublesuperior
opponent.

You see, some energy tactics can be effective against inexperienced or careless opponent and one of the best examples is in Johnson's book.

Correct when it comes to level flight, but not in a dive : fact presented here is that the Spitfire cannot match the P47 initial dive acceleration let alone top diving speed.

Spits were dived to higher Machs than P47 although this is not relevant for this story.

Remember here what Johnson states in the quote:
"But coming out of a dive, there's not a British or a German fighter that can come close to a Thunderbolt rushing upward in a zoom".

And "can't come close to P47" means what exactly, how many meters is that? I'm sure that all of the F1 drivers will sya that HRT is cr@p in comparison to Ferrari but on a full lap difference is whooping couple hundred meters.

So apparently it was a known technique to use dive to gain energy advantage with the P47, as Shaw also say :

"Johnson, undoubtedly one of the greatest natural fighter pilots of all time, used his roll performance defensively to allow himself the chance to build an energy advantage in a diving extension".

It is not guaranteed way of building the E over an opponent, it gives you E advantage only if your opponent is "cooperative" and decide to play your game. Spit can easily dive at shallower angle and keep altitude while holding the P-47 in check. As they started at ~1500m there is not much room for diving anyway.

If you want to build E in WWII environment than climb, climb, climb.

It seems to me that Shaw understands that it is common to increase energy in a diving extension, at least to the point of having 'energy advantage". But, of course, that is only my interpretation, and you're entitled to yours.

Shaw understand air combat and physics principles,it is you who struggles. Basic physics will show you that you will not increase E in high speed dive with prop driven WWII plane under FTH. If you don't trust physics you can check dive tests and calculate E yourself. Shaw know this and he expect his readers to know that too.

You'll also notice how he states: "German fighter" and not the noob friendly and cooperating fighter. He is talking about actual combat experience, and this shows that the Spitfire pilot may not be as poor skilled as you may want us to believe. Johnson talk with actual combat experience, he would certainly not lose his time telling such a minor feat as beating a noob Spitfire pilot in a mock fight, when he has so many other victories to talk about. He tells us a story with actual combat in mind.

This is a story from the guy who scored some kills, survived and wrote this book with M. Caidin IIRC. Book was meant to be sold and entertain not to tell dry facts. He also says that P-47 ca out-roll anything and this nowhere near the truth. It is just about beating famous plane, Spitfire, nothing more nothing less. If you want real controversy than examine the Johnson's story about being hammered by an FW.

Otherwise ask yourself why Shaw would have discuss this -according to you- poor example in his book? Come on...

This is not poor example, this is excellent example how to improve your chances when you are at disadvantage and eventually beat your opponent.

Well, please, let's see what happens in the described engagement, phase by phase:

First the Spit dives trying to follow the Thunderbolt diving, then only after being outmaneuvered trying to match the P47 in the zoom (this is the important part of the episode BTW) comes its first (and last) hard turn described as "skidding around hard and coming in on my tail". After that the Spitfire pilots is unable to follow rolls as Johnson "just refused to turn".Then the P47 enters the last dive of the mock combat followed by the fatal zoom climb.

Question to you: where are all the hard-ernergy-killer turns you are talking about? The Spitfire only turns hard once, so definitely not many hard turns here: anyway, if this only hard turn is enough to kill the Spitfire energy potential vs a P47, then there must be quite a performance problem in the game vs reality IMHO. But that's just a question.

This:

With my speed, roll was my only
advantage, and I made full use of the manner in which the Thunderbolt could
whirl. I kicked the Jug into a wicked left roll, horizon spinning crazily, once,
twice, into a third. As he turned to the left to follow, I tramped down on the
right rudder, banged the stick over to the right. Around and around we went,
left, right, left, right.

P-47 rolls and turns(Johnson never said that he didn't turn, just that he didn't turn hard and rolls without turns makes no sense because in that case plane would just fly straight rolling around longitudinal axis. With doing that P-47 would just lose E.) So mechanic of the fight is this:
P-47 rolls and turn gently
Spit follow the roll and turns inside
P-47 rolls to the other side and turns
Spit can't follow the roll so he is still turning left when P-47 is already turning right. When Spit has rolled and turning right Johnson repeats everything again but to the other side. With every roll and turn Johnson is putting Spit outside of his turn and that force Spit to turn harder every time to get inside of P-47 turn. This creates E difference and separation which enables Johnson to perform vertical move and beat the Spit.

Basic premises of E fight is denying the vertical moves to your opponent, now ask yourself, why Spit didn't pull into vertical and meet P-47 head-on, that would be a draw.

Before the
Spit pilot knew what had happened, I was high above him, the Thunderbolt
hammering around.

Why he/her didn't do it, to slow to pull up or Spit pilot didn't even saw that Johnson pulled up after one of the reversal because it is very likely that after every reversal P-47 went under Spit nose thus making the visual contact impossible?

And this killed his ability to turn inside me.

If Johnson was flying straight Spitfire turning ability is irrelevant, he is faster and has better dive, why he had to roll in the first place?

As for counter measures, ha! there always a tactic against another tactic!

Don't know what is funny here, Spit pilot obviously didn't know how to counter Johnson's moves and that shows his/her lack of skill.

Fw190 is quite different from P47 in game and in reality, as you well know.
I also know well that one can shoot down an unexperience or a surprised pilot online, but still i would like to see a track of it (following more or less what Johnson describes in the account and especially the crucial part:

"He couldn't make it; the big Jug had a definite speed advantage. I grinned
happily; I'd heard so much about this airplane that I really wanted to show off
the Thunderbolt to her pilot. The Jug kept pulling away from the Spitfire;
suddenly I hauled back on the stick and lifted the nose. The Thunderbolt
zoomed upward, soaring into the cloud-flecked sky. I looked out and back;
the Spit was straining to match me, and barely able to hold his position.
But my advantage was only the zoom—once in steady climb, he had me. "

AND ESPECIALLY

"I gaped as smoke poured from the exhausts and the Spitfire shot past me as if
I were standing still. ").

What is the problem here, P47 will be better in zoom part and Spit will catch it easily in sustained climb.