Some horrible posts here.

Then:

Personally I never understood the "being proud to be XY" or "being proud of my country's past" etc.

What I'd like to say: I am proud of

- having done well at university

- having success x and y in my job

- being the best in this and that.

But the reason of being proud (or the opposite being ashamed) of something that I did have no part in and could not have had because I am too young for it eludes me completely. How can one be proud or ashamed of the deeds of somebody else? One may be grateful though ...

I do understand that one loves his country and wants the best for it but this has nothing to do with proudness or shamefulness for something long in the past.

This as a side note.

I wished some people just could take a few steps back and look at things from a distance.

Then we could have a civilized discussion here without bitching around ...