[bongodriver]

Originally Posted by Sternjaeger II

Serious historians aren't politically biased in their judgements,the point you're making has become the scapegoat of petty polemics. I think that in the end facts are there,we can give these facts all the interpretations that we want,but they won't change. We're arguing over petty definitions here..

Well youre the one trying to convince us that the terms 'victory' etc don't apply, newsflash.....you are the one making petty definitions, the war was lost by the germans = 'victory' for the allies, simple fact, youv'e spent too much time with those hairy shirted types irt seems.....here's a nice simple example for you, would you turn round to an American and tell him the independence day celebrations are invalid? because there is no such thing as victory? you really think an American isn't just going to cut you a new 'A'hole on the spot?.....