[Sternjaeger II]

Originally Posted by winny

Thank you for finally talking to me like I'm an adult.
I know guns are imported, I'm not (as you may have thought) stupid.
I know that the main route into Manchester for Guns in the 80's and 90's was through the use of baggage handelrs at Manchester airport who were also being paid by the gangs. I know you can't stop it.

I'm sorry if it all came out as patronising, it's a cultural thing I'm afraid, nothing personal, this is the way we talk in Italy and we don't mean to be patronising, but it comes out differently and the forum medium doesn't help either. You can't stop it mainly cos it's embarrassingly easy to smuggle stuff through, not in airports, but everywhere else.

I can't put it any simpler than I just don't like them (Don't get me wrong, I have a bookshelf full of Millitary history, firearms history, etc.. I undersand thier millitary value). I just don't like the fact that a machine designed to kill people could be made more easily available for use by the general public.

ok, so you obviously find firearms fascinating but don't want the responsibility of having one in your household. Is that correct?

I'm sorry that this 'catch all' law means you can't shoot stuff, but for every responsible firearms person there will be someone who isn't as responsible.

It's ok, I still enjoy using all my firearms when I'm back in Italy, it's not big deal to me, but I take several British friends to the shooting range, and they all were impressed by the culture and above all how there's pretty much no difference between a bolt action and semiauto rifle. The Enfield in particular, because of its spring loaded bolt action, is renown for its so called "mad minute", in which experienced shooters can deliver an impressive 30 rounds per minute hitting a target at 200 yards (the record, back in 1914, is of 3. Then again, a rimfire .22cal version of the ColtM4 or Car15 is available for sale, and that is too incredibly lethal.

I share the same concerns,but you're assuming I'm 'against' firearms, I'm not. I just don't see the need for anyone to own a semi or fully automatic weapon in the UK, or a handgun for that matter.
If anything I'd like to see illegal possesion more firmly punnished.

for the semiauto see above, for the full auto I have a mixed feeling. The destructive potential of an automatic machine gun is big, there could be stricter regulations like you're not authorised to leave the shooting range with it (many shooting ranges offer the possibility to keep your firearms safely stored in their premises). Mind you, regulations on transportation are really strict: whenever you're travelling, the gun can't be in the cabin with you, it needs to be in the boot with its bolt disassembled. Ammunition need to be with you at all time, not with the gun, pistols need to be disassembled on their main components etc.. again, this is the regulation in Europe.

Eh? you say they don't regulate firearms then tell me to read the regulations..?

I meant they didn't go for further restrictions on firearms after the Cumbria shooting, which surprised me a bit.

I don't care a lot about this topic. The reason I'm still here is because of the way you spoke to me, not to change your mind or to have mine changed.
I'm standing up for myself.



I cannot explain the British attitude to alcohol. It baffles me. It's a symptom of the same problem that caused the looting sprees, no prospects, no interest in the future, no concept of consequence and selfishness. There is a real 'screw you, I'll do what I want' attitude around at the moment.
Again we're off track here.. The British are a strangley self destructive race, I don't know why.

yeah, it's the double standard attitude that I don't get. Again, alcohol causes, directly or indirectly, loads of victims every year, but there's no public condemnation of it. Probably because it's too much of a business, like cars.. there's no real interest for the Government for your health, they just need to give the politically correct buff here and there, attacking easy minorities like gun collectors, whilst spending £1billion for a war that makes no sense in Afghanistan.. go figure!

I just got lucky with my experience. I just tried the whole " I'll do what you want, just relax and don't shoot me" I also asked that he leave me my wallet and take the money and cards as the wallet was a gift from my dead mother (it was a gif but she's not dead!) I was basically trying to get him to slow down a bit so I could think..

He looked over his shoulder as he was taking the cards out of my wallet and at that point I just thought that if he looked over his shoulder again I'd hit him as hard and as fast as I could. He looked over his shoulder again and I ended up with a broken hand

yeah, that was a dangerous reaction but fortunately for you it worked if this kind of crime is common in your area, I would really recommend to follow a Krav Maga course, it was developed by the Mossad and it's a very effective, no-nonsense defence technique.

There is not right and wrong in everything. Is a pencil right or wrong? Or a duck? And who's right and wrong are we using? Yours or mine? (they may differ)

There is no right and wrong with guns. You've used the argument that guns are neither good nor bad, yet you're quite happy to put right and wrong into use when talking about them. Gun usage can never be classified by using such emotive terms as 'right and wrong'. Necessary or not necessary is the ony criteria.

Exactly, there's no right or wrong in things, it's the use that we make of them that is either right or wrong (which then again is subjective). As you said, there's nothing wrong with guns, what's wrong is the regulations and controls on the licensing. So the Government should fix that instead of prohibit them altogether.

I dunno..
Because a Sitfire is a classic WW2 Warbird (which I like) and Enfield is a London borough (which I'm not as keen on)?

I'll tell you why, because the Spitfire became a symbol of propaganda, the Enfield instead, which served your countries for 2 world wars, was just a rifle.. there's never been glamour about firearms, but that's what won the war, a Spitfire was armed with machine guns and cannons, not good intentions. That's the "society hypocrisy" that I'm talking about.

I'll sum up.. You like to own guns, I don't see the need to own one. You see the regulations as erroding your freedom. I just see it as another bit of legislation that doesn't affect me in any way.

Guess what, we probably like different foods, and football teams, and TV shows,

To say that you jumped all over my post because of the way I said it just sounds like a poor excuse for some poor behaviour.

All I said was I don't want more guns.

Can we move on now?

exactly, it doesn't affect you, but you should express sympathy to other citizens like you who are deprived of a right, and I mean this in a broad sense, not just related to firearms.

Of course we can move on, I'm sorry again if I came out very blunt in some bits, but my point is that as much as I respect other people's opinion, I want to understand where they come from, not just take them for granted and get them shoved down my throat, like the government does here.