Quote:
Originally Posted by ICDP
That data is cherry picked to show how the 109E was inferior to the Spitfire. Even the quotes from German pilots are cherry picked to show the Spitfire in a glowing light. How many reports are there in that site that show how a 109E outran or outturned or shot down a Spitfire in combat? Just because he didn't post them doesn't mean it didn't happen, of course many Spitfires fell to the guns of 109Es in BoB. It is easy for a person to make their pet plane look good when they deliberately leave out the reports or tests that don't show it in a particularly good light. Let me give you a clue, it is called spitfireperformance because the guy who created the site has a distinct bias towards allied aircraft, and particularly the Spitfire. It is a good site and the flight test reports are a gold mine, but be sure to read other primary sources for comaprison.
If those reports on that site were the only thing you read about the 109E and Spitfire you would come away believing the Spitfire was so superior it wasn't even a contest. Just show up in your Spitfire and expect to win, if a 109 pilot shot down a Spitfire it was only down to blind luck. To suggest that the Spitfire MkI always outran or outturned the 109E or the 109E always outdived a Spitfire is nonsense. I remember reading the reports from USN pilots when they first encountered the A6M Zero in the pacific. The after action reports had claims that the A6M was doing 450mph in straight and level flight and was climbing at 5000ft per minute. We both know that that isn't even close to true, but those USN pilots were convinced they were correct. Here is a link to those reports to show how even combat pilot eyewitness reports can be very far from the truth.
http://www.warbirdforum.com/vmf221b.htm
http://www.warbirdforum.com/vmf221.htm
Pilot anecdotes are fun to read, but unfortunately they tell very little about relative performance of two different aircraft. So many variables are unknown, is one plane damaged or overheating? What is the relative skill of the pilots? Is the victim even aware of the danger, maybe he is fixated on something else etc. Even flight tests of captured enemy equipment should be treated with caution. For example the 109E sample the RAE tested was a crash landed and repaired machine. I have read plenty of accounts from rookie pilots claiming they couldn't keep up with their far more experienced flight leaders in the same plane type. Pierre Clostermann in his excellent book "The Big SHow" touches on this subject quite clearly on a few occassions.
Sorry for the long drawn out post, my point is that the Spitfire and 109E and even the Hurricane had their strengths and weaknesses and were close enough matched that pilot skill and tactics had far more to do with the outcome than relative performance of each aircraft. |
I hear the points you are making, but discounting real pilots experience is somewhat dubious. I am not suggesting by any stretch that the Spitfire should be 'autowin' so where did you get that from? The fact is that at the moment the 109 in the game is faster than the Spitfire Mk 1 at all altitudes and both climbs and dives faster which does not appear to be in agreement with the bulk of written evidence.
I quote:
Quote:
Originally Posted by ICDP
To suggest that the Spitfire MkI always outran or outturned the 109E or the 109E always outdived a Spitfire is nonsense
|
Where was this suggested? Was not by me.