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Originally Posted by Kwiatek
Well after reading many books, real life test by RAF and LW also looking in technical data of both planes i think that the difference between both planes sustained turn rate wasnt such huge.
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Good one
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kwiatek
Still Spitfire should have the edge both in slow and higher speed turn rate.
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High speed turn only. Without too much AoA (no high G). Their the Spitfire was uncatchable for the 109.
The Hurri turned even better and could be put in a descending high G spiral were nor the Spit or the 109 could catch him.
High G flat turn IMHO : the hurri would hve the advantage on the beginning but then would loose E quicker than the Bf due to it's poorer aero and P/W.
I know that some wld talk abt Wing loading and comparing P/WL ratio but this is relevant only with similar airfoils characteristics. You can't use this argument in such different design or you ended favoring the wide chord flat plate. Think abt the the WWI Focker high thickness wings and the cambered thin sections of both French and English design (ok ok I know RoF was completely porcked when they add in the Ninja Camel and SE's - don't refer to what you see there). The former could turn inside any allied design due to better LIFT generating devices - eg WINGS.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kwiatek
Slats in 109 help a lot in the egde of stall but we should note that slats in 109 not cover all leading edge area but mostly airleons area - which mean that you have more control when you are close to stall ( when your wing rot are actually in stall). Other hand Spitfire had washed wingtips which had similar effect - when your wing rots were in stall your wing tips are not and you have still control on airleons. Both planes had similar stall speeds but Spitfire had clearly lower wingloading.
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You don't fly with your ailerons. The washing techniques only helps the pilot to ease the stall.
Furthermore, twisting the wing generate a huge extra amount of drag that hve to be compensated by extra power in such high drag situation of the slow turning fight. The 109 being cleaner, having a higher thicness ration (less AoA for the same lift) he has the edge here (but she might hve been harder to handle) .
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kwiatek
Slats in 109 give it better stall characteristic so pilots could feel more safe in stall fights then unexperience pilots in Spitfires but other hand good pilot in SPitfire could quite easy fell incoming stall beacuse Spitfire wings give him plenty of warning.
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+1
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kwiatek
So i think the difference wasnt such huge but still Spitfire should be better in turn.
BTW
Looking in 109 COD slats working i see that they open very late - at very low speeds and i think they should work much earlier.
I checked RAF 109 E test and slats should be open in level flight at 180-190 km/h. In COD they start to open at speeds below 150 km/h.
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I do agree with you. The slats seems much too shy to pop out
For those interested you can browse the War-Clouds forums where I remember we had some interesting discussions on that specific subject in the past