Quote:
Originally Posted by Zeke Wolff
The Brittish 2 pounder could penetrate 56~57.5mm of armor at a range of 500 yards, (it was the best light antitank gun at that time) which is more armor than the Pz4E-G had as front armor (they had 30-50mm thick armor plates, depending on which version). So this gun, just as it is in the game, were perfectly capable of knocking out Pz4´s frontal in real life.
Same thing with the 6 pounder: it could punch thru armor plating as thick as 81-83mm at a range of 500 yards. This gun can do it in the game, and in real life as well.
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Just as a question out of curiosity, does this penetration also takes eventual failing or shattering (shatter gap) of rounds in to acount ? This was a serious issue with guns that had to deal with armor that was just thick enough to alow eventual (theoretical) penetration. Like the Panzer IV H which had at least 80mm of front armor. This increased with the quality of armor which was in general excelent for German vehicles and less likely to crack, splinter or deform.
As you say depending on which Panzer IV we are talking about the penetration with the 2QF might be successfull or not. From what I can read it seems the Panzer IV G got some 80 mm of front armor with its base of 50mm + 30mm face-hardened appliqué welded and later bolted to the glacis. So at least the Panzer IV G (or the F2 which got the luck to receive the aditional armor) should prove to be a very hard target for the 2QF at any range. The front that is.
I am not that used with the 6QF, but the gun in use with the Cromwell for example wasnt the same kind of gun like the anti tank gun used by the infantry. For example the Cromwell never received any APDS or APCR amunition for its 75mm which had more or less the same penetration quality compared to the 75mm of the Sherman (if I am not completely wrong they even shared the same HE shells) So again penetrations to the front would be against the Panzer IV in its late/mid war variants not always be succesfull and the Sherman with its 75mm could only hope for a shoot to the turret. I have no clue how much issues the 6QF had with shattering shells or if that was even a issue at all for the gun. But I know that this was a reality for the Firefly with its 17Pounder which sometimes failed to penetrate either the Tiger I or Panther. Particularly with APDS shells and they had as well terrible accuracy and would often loose their fins in flight and thus hit nothing. It was really not much more accurate then maybe 400 or 500m. The Panther proved in tests to see a lot of richochets against the usual 17Pf Ap for example. It seems that tests have shown changes in quality of used armor as well ranging from very good to good and bad. Where high quality armor showed no sign of stress even after several shoots to the same spot and the bad armor cracked with the first shoot.
But the armor of the early/mid war Tiger was extremly well made and proved to be a issue for almost any anti tank gun of that time even to the famous and powerfull 17pf. So any gun which would shoot a high velocity shell at it like the Sherman with its 75mm HVAP would face eventualy a shattering of its shell on the front.
This is from what I can read a 17pf which got stuck in the front armor of a Tiger I
militaryalbum.com
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zeke Wolff
The Panther had 40-50mm (depending on which version, (Ausf D,A or G) we are talking about) and most, if not all guns of WW2 could knock it out by a flank shot. German crews were taught to always face the enemy with their thick frontal armor and by doing so, protect their tanks weaker sides. In other words, the Panther is just as vulnerable to flank shots in the game, as it was in WW2.
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It is "vulnerable" to the side but just simply not enough from what I can tell. Particularly to guns like the soviet 85mm or the Shermans 76w which could penetrate the side of the panther up to much more then 1000m. I think up to 1500m even. In game you often enough strugle with it already on pretty small distances ...
Usualy one doctrine was to always use the Panther in combination with the Panzer IV as protection for the flank.