Before we get the offical release of 4.09
 

Can we get the API 50's belting corrected for the final 4.09, please?

I have made every attempt to copy the pictures into my web site as not to directly link from the sources. All web sites are accredited. The only thing I have done is gather the information.


Weights and Measures
http://www.inetres.com/gp/military/i...g/50_ammo.html

WORLD WAR 2 FIGHTER ARMAMENT EFFECTIVENESS
http://www.quarry.nildram.co.uk/WW2guneffect.htm


Some pics


http://www.warwingsart.com/history/50Cal/Types_01.jpg

http://www.warwingsart.com/history/50Cal/Types_02.jpg

http://www.warwingsart.com/history/50Cal/Types_03.jpg

Where these pictures came from
http://www.liberatorcrew.com/15_Gunnery/09_ammo.htm


Now my friend 310th_Diablo posts the following (books and ISBN numbers follow)

A book sample:

Wolf, William. American Fighter-Bombers in World War II: USAAF Jabos in the MTO and ETO. Atglen, PA: Schiffer Publishing Ltd, 2003
ISBN 0-7643-1878-0
391 pages

http://stonebooks.com/archives/031123.shtml


quote:
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In December 1944 the Ordnance Section of the 12th Air Force. using 57"' Fighter Group fighter-bombers, conducted a study of attacks on a static Italian steam locomotive. Strafing damage was found to stall a locomotive and cause repairs ranging from one to 35 days, and that strafing was much more likely to achieve hits than bombing or rockets. It was suggested that strafing using a .50 belting of four armor piercing incendiary (API) rounds to one tracer was ideal (as opposed to the previous API-lncendiary-APl-Incendiary-Tracer belting). Strafing from 90-degree beam was suggested over an attack from a shallower angle, as these perpendicular strikes were more likely to perforate the locomotive's boiler and less likely to ricochet.

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So, basically there wasn't a problem with killing aircraft with the .50 caliber because the U.S. was able to mass produce specialized Incendiary and Armor Piercing Incendiary .50 cal ammo for use in it's aircraft. Only in the Korean war because of the high altitude nature of the aircraft, and the jet engine and fuel used was the only limiting factor that caused the .50cal to go out of favor. It was more than adequate during WW2 though as can be seen in the examples above.
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Browning .50
// APIT - AP - HE - AP

APIT
mass = 0.0485
speed = 870.0
power = 0.002

AP
mass = 0.0485
speed = 870.0
power = 0

HE
mass = 0.0485
speed = 870.0
power = 0.00148

With API ammo the 50's will actually have more power and stopping ability too.

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more

quote:
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From http://www.vought.com/heritage/speci...ymilitary.html, recounted by Marine Corps crew chief Bud Yinger:

"Other crews were kept busy belting ammunition. Belting the 50-caliber ammunition had to be arranged so that the rounds were in order-- tracer, armor piercing, incendiary."

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quote:
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From http://www.cannon-lexington.com/Pages/Bob%20Capps.htm, recounted by CV-16 crew chief Lowell R. Capps:

"Our next learning adventure was how to belt 50 cal. ammo. There were four of us that sat around this belting machine that had a tray. One of us would put an armor piercing shell in the tray, another an incendiary and the other a tracer."

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more...LOL

AlmightyTallest Posted Sat February 26 2005 12:03 Hide Post
Okay, just found one of my books that gives a standard aircraft belted ratio for the Corsair.

From: "Corsair The F4U in WW2 and Korea"
by: Barrett Tillman

Page 20-21

"most aviation .50cal ammo was belted in the ratio of AP-I-AP-I-Tracer"

So at any rate since the .50cal ammo belt used in PF goes for all .50cal guns, I think if the HE load is incorrect the HE round should be replaced by either an Incendiary, or if you want to cover all bases, an Armor Piercing Incendiary round.



Here is the rest of the thread at the Zoo: http://forums.ubi.com/eve/forums/a/t...771003335/p/13


Now for some pictures:

Now here is the picture of Schmatzie 57th FG 64th FS 'Black Scorpions' #53 SN 4420866 (shown 420 866)
Register: http://perso.orange.fr/p-47.database...e/44-xxxxx.htm

http://www.warwingsart.com/history/5...rer_Main11.jpg

The armorer loading a nice belt of 4 API and one tracer that backs up my friend Diablos post.
Now, compare the belting here with the paragraph above and the accompanying pictures.

Notice the light colored tips on those rounds?

Here is Grabesky's aircraft in color (same from above)
http://www.warwingsart.com/history/5...stangAmmo2.jpg

Now here is a report from the 359th FG (Green Nosed) 16 August 1944
http://www.warwingsart.com/history/5...ll-16aug44.jpg
Note J: 776 Rounds API

Now all we have to do is to make sure we all know the true History all we need now is to get it fixed.

As you can see, if we had the historical belting in IL2 we should only press the trigger (provided you aimed correctly) for 1 to 2 seconds and not the current game implementation of using the entire belt to bring down an enemy.


Also, if possible, can the belting be revisited and augment any missing load outs like 20mm as an option for the 109G10/G14 and 1000lbs bombs on the P47 wing hardpoints?

*Bump!*


You forgot one thing Guse, smoke from them .50 cals... ;)

591 views and no replies?

Here we go again... :P

This will not happen Oleg said there will not be any FM changes only slight program bug fixes. I'm for one would like to see this but it won't happen due to the fact the problem that occurred with Northrup-Grumman copyright infringement Which was a bunch of BS.

When they took advantage of him with copy right infringements on NG aircraft which wasn't true due to the fact that those WWII era planes, copyright had expired years ago.

So now Oleg is jaded to US aircraft and we probably wont see any US Aircraft in BOB also.

Perhaps its because everyone knows Guse is right and there is no argument to be had like usual. :-)

I would not classify this as a flight model change. Perhaps Oleg does though. I think the 4.09 patch is going to have more in it then many think. ;-)

That's true. But I doubt he will change that. After all, these changes are made by 3d-party modellers and skinners. I doubt they'll cut any manpower from BoB to change any part of the code in IL2 that is in there for almost 10 years, now.

Bah, changing belting of 0.50 coul'd be.....5 min, including a beer drinking ;)

It is a pretty well done part of the game, regarding his age........ modifications like belting are pretty easy and quick to do due to the good conception of the weapons related programming....

Why is it for people hard to understand that no employee of Maddox Games works on the Il-2 engine anymore? Or why do you think getting 4.09 ready takes so freaking long? :roll: