Strange archery
Ok, i have to ask. what's the deal with archers?
(1) Archers uphill, firing down on enemy, at long range (looks close), zero casualties ? enemy waits, still no casualties, enemy moves forward, medium range, a few casualties, enemy gets close, more casualties, archers forget to evade, archers destroyed!??? (2) Archers V pikemen, same as above except when pikemen charge, archers stand ground and destroy pikemen who are meleeing archers ??????? errr this doesn't seem right somehow. Some good things I have noticed, units auto-face closest enemy unit! . |
Did you set them to auto-retreat behavior? I don't remember whether this is by default on not.
Second question - i'm not sure, will ask developers about this. |
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Please also remember that irregular archers won't do wonders, they are not like Elven archers in Warhammer: Dark Omen at all :) Even the elite ones wont bring you victory on their own (horse archers are another story however, they can because of their mobility). However sometimes even the poorest archers give satisfactory results, try them on poorly armored militia cavalry locked in melee, for example.
To summarize, they are mainly support units that wound and sap morale greatly. In most cases enemy unit that was under fire will rout in melee quickly because of wounds and morale loss. Here each regiment has their own morale level. |
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Let's assess the situation. How many archers and how many pikemen were there? I assume pikemen where under fire on their way to archers, this means they could suffer a significant morale loss. How did archers win? Did they kill all pikemen in melee or pikemen panicked and started to run away? What were their skills and parameters? Were they irregulars? Militia archers? Did you upgrade them before this battle? Were any friendly units on archer flanks or rear (if they were, they gave them a morale bonus)? Did any enemy units near the pikemen panic? If you are unsure why something happened, look at the stats panel on the left and make a screenshot if you feel that something is not right (better two screenshots, one showing stats of one regiment and another showing enemy stats). We'll try to determine what's happened :) |
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I believe these modifiers can be edited just like everything else if you want full FF. |
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You should try a custom battle with professional or elite eastern archers or western professional crossbowmen though, they are far more dangerous. |
hmmmm so what's the point of cheap-archers .. if no volleys will even take-out one soldier?
i understand cheap archers don't have composite bows or bodkin arrow heads, and most medieval solders have large, wooden shields ... but i would expect at least 1 casualty every 3 volleys ?? yes? or is that historically incorrect? As to the ARchers V pikemen, 100 cheapest archers V standard size pikemen unit. ARchers fired then evaded, shotting a few charging pikemen but then archers got stuck on terrain (???) and stood and didn't evade, firing arrows at charging / reforming / advancing pikemen. Then pikemen charged into the archers which didn't flinch, just kept firing into pikemen who fell like flies .. who paniced, then ran. It gives the impression the archers knew the pikemen were about to run ... i didn't see it. Can I hide archers in trees? will the enemy see them? how can I tell? . |
I also commented about this over at Wargamer.com. In one battle, I had 2 archer units on the top of a hill, with a single calvary unit very close to me but stationary. I opened fire with volley after volley of arrows, and not a single death. This was going on for minutes. Then their infantry came at me. Same thing. Volley after volley with not a single casulaty.
I don't care if I have the worst archers and they have the best armor, I should at least get lucky with killing some, especially after I hit them time after time. Mitra had me do a 1-1 battle to test it. When I did that, I did see some casualties, but still seemed way too little. I had units right in front of me, getting hit by volley after volley. Some did die, but at the rate and distance I was hitting them, a lot more should have been dead. Don't get me wrong, I don't want archers to become super units, but they don't seem to do much. However, I did notice in the 1-1 that they would become wounder quite a bit. |
I only use crossbows and I have noticed that the enemy die exponentially (slowly at first, but then die faster and faster) when they have several units of crossbows shooting them all at once. I suggest having multiple units of archers/ranged focus on a single unit, that way you can take them down faster.
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You should test crossbows for this, most likely they are more powerful than the bows. I have also heard that the western archers are crummy in general, whether this is true or not I'm not certain.
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Some facts about arrow script:
(..\data\aix\weapon\inf.g1.archer.arrow.static\inf .g1.archer.arrow.static.aix) Each soldier has 24 HP. Types of arrow damage: Code:
[*] = ;const DeadDamage = 24; Code:
[*] = ; if Distance < 5 then Code:
[*] = ; if Distance < 45 then Code:
[*] = ; if Distance < 95 then Code:
[*] = ; if Distance < 100 then Some examples of crossbow damage (xbow against 0 armor): Code:
[*] = ; if Distance < 5 then Code:
[*] = ; if Distance < 40 then Code:
[*] = ; if Distance < 100 then So If you don't like dev's archery system you can easily change it yourself. |
I don't doubt and have never doubted that is how the developer's scripted it since that is what is happening in the game, I am questioning whether that is accurate or not. Sure, I could update the scripts myself, but that is not something I really want to do for games I buy.
I don't know the precise distance between my units, but visually seemed very close and I was on top of a hill looking down. It would seem there would be some additional advantage for that as well. |
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I will absolutely do that myself. Thank you very much Goblin Wizard for the scripts! |
Goblin Wizard, I was wondering, as you seem to know about scripts and stuff: Do you possibly know how to change camera strafing? You've probably read what I said in other posts, (Camera wont strafe oblique, so it takes way longer time to get where you want, it's ineffective.. and so on), It'd be really grateful. :)
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Does anybody know which tools are needed in order to open the files? (Aix files)
I've no idea, already been looking around but I cant find them :( |
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Wow thanks. =) Really appreciated. But do you know how to open those aix files for the archery? I dont seem to have the tools for :confused:
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Western archers are also the only weapons to oppose to light horse archers, because these one have more arrows than foot archers and crossbowmen load too slow, so a good players can be out of range much before the crossbow is loaded. Irregular compensate with number and rapidity. FOr make a comparison: at Crecy the english bownmen launch near a million of arrows during the battle, but the bigger part of losses was caused by close combat. At Agincourtn the arrows create chaos and woundeds but the knights dead in the initial charge were only 3. Elite archers are yes destructives but only 50 for units and very expensives, you can take them only if your penalize your heavy infantry or heavy cavalry. |
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mitra would you be so kind to ask devs about this variable:
Code:
[*] = ;var ZoneType : Integer = 0; // 34) Тип зоны расположения отряда [0..9] |
I have it in russian (google translator after but is not clear what is the better translation of second word), perhaps Sneaksie can give us the better translation
" 1 Редкий лес, Первый промежуток 2 Редкий лес, Второй промежуток 3 Редкий лес, Третий промежуток 4 Средний лес, Первый промежуток 5 Средний лес, Второй промежуток 6 Средний лес, Третий промежуток 7 Густой лес, Первый промежуток 8 Густой лес, Второй промежуток 9 Густой лес, Третий промежуток " " 1 A rare wood, the first interval 2 rare wood, the second interval 3 Rare woods, third interval 4 Average forest, the first interval 5 Average forest, second interval 6 Average forest, the third interval 7 The dense forest, the first interval 8 thick forest, the second interval 9 Thick forest, the third interval " |
Thx a lot! These 3 kinds of "interval" are still unknown to me but at least I know it's about forests.
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The translation is literally correct (sparse forest is better than 'rare' one though), i'm not sure what these intervals mean.
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perahps different levels of density
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You cannot be serious. --- additional --- Ooopss, sorry , it's a script not source code . |
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