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-   -   Strange archery (http://forum.fulqrumpublishing.com/showthread.php?t=28035)

Grim.Reaper 11-24-2011 10:26 PM

I also commented about this over at Wargamer.com. In one battle, I had 2 archer units on the top of a hill, with a single calvary unit very close to me but stationary. I opened fire with volley after volley of arrows, and not a single death. This was going on for minutes. Then their infantry came at me. Same thing. Volley after volley with not a single casulaty.

I don't care if I have the worst archers and they have the best armor, I should at least get lucky with killing some, especially after I hit them time after time.

Mitra had me do a 1-1 battle to test it. When I did that, I did see some casualties, but still seemed way too little. I had units right in front of me, getting hit by volley after volley. Some did die, but at the rate and distance I was hitting them, a lot more should have been dead.

Don't get me wrong, I don't want archers to become super units, but they don't seem to do much. However, I did notice in the 1-1 that they would become wounder quite a bit.

Piemaster 11-25-2011 08:56 AM

I only use crossbows and I have noticed that the enemy die exponentially (slowly at first, but then die faster and faster) when they have several units of crossbows shooting them all at once. I suggest having multiple units of archers/ranged focus on a single unit, that way you can take them down faster.

Grim.Reaper 11-25-2011 09:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Piemaster (Post 364333)
I only use crossbows and I have noticed that the enemy die exponentially (slowly at first, but then die faster and faster) when they have several units of crossbows shooting them all at once. I suggest having multiple units of archers/ranged focus on a single unit, that way you can take them down faster.

As stated in my example, I did have 2 archer units attacking the same unit. My units were archers so maybe crossbows are stronger.

Piemaster 11-25-2011 09:12 AM

You should test crossbows for this, most likely they are more powerful than the bows. I have also heard that the western archers are crummy in general, whether this is true or not I'm not certain.

Grim.Reaper 11-25-2011 09:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Piemaster (Post 364341)
You should test crossbows for this, most likely they are more powerful than the bows. I have also heard that the western archers are crummy in general, whether this is true or not I'm not certain.

Even if I test this wont change the fact the archers are weak. Don't get me wrong, I don't want my archers to kill everything on sight, but if I have 2 units on the top of a hill shooting at a stationary target, some better die. I could have the worst archers and my enemy the best units, but showering them with 100's of arrows better kill some of them even if with just lucky shots.

Goblin Wizard 11-25-2011 10:41 AM

Some facts about arrow script:
(..\data\aix\weapon\inf.g1.archer.arrow.static\inf .g1.archer.arrow.static.aix)

Each soldier has 24 HP.

Types of arrow damage:
Code:

[*] = ;const DeadDamage = 24;
[*] = ;const HardDamage = 12;
[*] = ;const LiteDamage = 4;

An example of damage probability with western bow against unarmored target:
Code:

[*] = ;                  if Distance < 5 then
[*] = ;                  begin
[*] = ;                    if CubeRes <= 9 then HPDec := DeadDamage
[*] = ;                    else
[*] = ;                    if CubeRes <= 11 then HPDec := HardDamage
[*] = ;                    else
[*] = ;                    if CubeRes <= 12 then HPDec := LiteDamage;
[*] = ;                  end

Code:

[*] = ;                  if Distance < 45 then
[*] = ;                  begin
[*] = ;                    if CubeRes <= 3 then HPDec := DeadDamage
[*] = ;                    else
[*] = ;                    if CubeRes <= 6 then HPDec := HardDamage
[*] = ;                    else
[*] = ;                    if CubeRes <= 8 then HPDec := LiteDamage;
[*] = ;                  end

Code:

[*] = ;                  if Distance < 95 then
[*] = ;                  begin
[*] = ;                    if CubeRes <= 2 then HPDec := HardDamage
[*] = ;                    else
[*] = ;                    if CubeRes <= 4 then HPDec := LiteDamage;
[*] = ;                  end

Code:

[*] = ;                  if Distance < 100 then
[*] = ;                  begin
[*] = ;                    if CubeRes <= 2 then HPDec := LiteDamage;
[*] = ;                  end

As you noticed there is no chance to kill a soldier in one shot (no possibility of dealing DeadDamage) at long range. If distance is greater that 94 meters you need 6 successful hits to kill a soldier! Even at medium range like 45 meters chance of dealing DeadDamage is very low. And all of this is against unarmored target!

Some examples of crossbow damage (xbow against 0 armor):

Code:

[*] = ;                  if Distance < 5 then
[*] = ;                  begin
[*] = ;                    if CubeRes <= 10 then HPDec := DeadDamage
[*] = ;                    else
[*] = ;                    HPDec := HardDamage;
[*] = ;                  end

Code:

[*] = ;                  if Distance < 40 then
[*] = ;                  begin
[*] = ;                    if CubeRes <= 6 then HPDec := DeadDamage
[*] = ;                    else
[*] = ;                    if CubeRes <= 7 then HPDec := HardDamage
[*] = ;                    else
[*] = ;                    if CubeRes <= 9 then HPDec := LiteDamage;
[*] = ;                  end

Code:

[*] = ;                  if Distance < 100 then
[*] = ;                  begin
[*] = ;                    if CubeRes <= 3 then HPDec := DeadDamage
[*] = ;                    else
[*] = ;                    if CubeRes <= 4 then HPDec := HardDamage
[*] = ;                    else
[*] = ;                    if CubeRes <= 6 then HPDec := LiteDamage;
[*] = ;                  end

As you can see xbow is absolutely deadly at short range. Nearly every bolt kills. Of course at long range xbow is not so deadly but still has a chance of insta kill (unarmored target).
So If you don't like dev's archery system you can easily change it yourself.

Grim.Reaper 11-25-2011 10:46 AM

I don't doubt and have never doubted that is how the developer's scripted it since that is what is happening in the game, I am questioning whether that is accurate or not. Sure, I could update the scripts myself, but that is not something I really want to do for games I buy.

I don't know the precise distance between my units, but visually seemed very close and I was on top of a hill looking down. It would seem there would be some additional advantage for that as well.

ThisIsRealWarfare 11-25-2011 02:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Grim.Reaper (Post 364364)
I don't doubt and have never doubted that is how the developer's scripted it since that is what is happening in the game, I am questioning whether that is accurate or not. Sure, I could update the scripts myself, but that is not something I really want to do for games I buy.

I don't know the precise distance between my units, but visually seemed very close and I was on top of a hill looking down. It would seem there would be some additional advantage for that as well.

Go for changing yourself. They might patch it, but if you prefer a quick fix of it, go for the scripts ;)
I will absolutely do that myself. Thank you very much Goblin Wizard for the scripts!

ThisIsRealWarfare 11-25-2011 02:56 PM

Goblin Wizard, I was wondering, as you seem to know about scripts and stuff: Do you possibly know how to change camera strafing? You've probably read what I said in other posts, (Camera wont strafe oblique, so it takes way longer time to get where you want, it's ineffective.. and so on), It'd be really grateful. :)

Grim.Reaper 11-25-2011 03:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ThisIsRealWarfare (Post 364419)
Go for changing yourself. They might patch it, but if you prefer a quick fix of it, go for the scripts ;)
I will absolutely do that myself. Thank you very much Goblin Wizard for the scripts!

I am staying strong to see if the developers correct, unless somehow this is really historically accurate:) Let me know how things work out for you.


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