For 1946 & Oleg Fans
 

I have to aire my own personal opinions on this game after, having been an avid fan on Oleg Maddox from the beginning, purchasing all his PC work & addons, I feel I am entitled to a say re: this console attempt.
Being a lucky owner of PS3 & 360, I have been so looking forward to this game for what seems an age. I remember reading the promises & words like "realism", "sim" etc etc. This was supposed to be everything that is IL-2, coming to console but I have to say, it couldn't be further set apart & in my opinion, the only thing that seperates this from the highly arcade "Blazing Angels 2" is no floating 'powerups' in the sky.

Allow me to backup my opinion & compare BoP to the IL-2 series.
The last PC offering "IL-2 Sturmovik 1946" has over 250 playable aircraft, ALL WITH COCKPITS (so Anoton's explanation of money trade offs to leave out German Cockpits from a paultry stable of 40 aircraft of which only around 12 have cockpits, is a bit baffling, especially when you compare the price differences between these titles), a fantastic immersion is always felt in 1946 in the most simplistic of ways; taking off for example before each mission. Why on earth has the player been denied the option to take off from his airfield with his squadron? Where's the immersion in being "thrown" in the air with no background of the mission, very little target information etc.
Speaking of immersion, I was looking forward to flying & gunning from the Blenheim bomber as I was told by the booklet aswell as reviews that the camera cycles from view to view & incorporates a gunners eye view. Now forgive me here but I was assuming that at the very least, the gunning could be done from his viewpoint but in third person???? How is this immersive? How is this realistic? How is this even bearly enjoyable?
1946 will put the player from position to position within the aircraft at the touch of a single key & with no expense spared, beautifully rendered bomber cockpit, bomb aimer station & gun pod etc.
1946 incorporates an extremely powerful yet such a simple-to-use mission editor whereby the player can create his or her own missions by use of waypoints, & capping it all off by dropping in static cameras in which to view the action after the mission (or even during). Have a look at some of these on youtube, they're incredible & all done ingame.
Now I fully realise the dominant numbers of the console market have no wish for such a tool but .... not even having a flyby view or any options for the player to view a fantastic dogfight that he or she has just taken part in?? Come on!!!
Flight controls. I bought the AV8R-02 especially for the 360 version of the game I purchased (after playtesting both 360 & PS3 demo versions to death) &, like many threads state here, the dead zone is enormous & completely unplayable.
Also, Playing in realistic mode & reaching for the 'padlock enemy' camera button, you actually have to take your hands OFF the flight controls when viewing the enemy. Thinking a simple remapping would obviously solve this, I'm so disappointed to find that even this simple yet crucial task is denied to the player.
I'm fully aware that there has to be sacrafices made to incorporate a console version of a FlightSim but all the things I have stated HAVE BEEN DONE BEFORE ON CONSOLE. Operation Flashpoint on the original Xbox was a PC port & kept the fantastic mission editor intact, the incredible & now respected & highly under rated OVER G FIGHTERS for 360 enabled to player to relive his or her dogfights in multiple camera views aswell as incorporating great cockpits for each one of its aircraft & obviously allowed for customizable controls aswell as allowing the player the chance to taxi, take off & land.
The online area of this is a joke, I'm sorry but there's no other way to describe a ranked player dogfight where you clearly have such an edge over your opponent (or vica versa) & he or she can bearly fly from the direct result of your gunning. he can bearly stay in the air but then he stalls near the ground, goes into terra ferma & you are NOT REWARDED THE KILL???? So I am clearly outmatched, smoke pouring from my Hurricane, can't see out of the cockpit visor (obviously not a German aircraft or a Blenheim then); what's going to stop me from heading south & ploughing into the ground? there's no points loss & hey, I get to start far above my oppenent in a nice shiney new plane!
I've not even made any intentions to go into the anoraky bits like the spits in BoB actually being Mk.Vb's & the hilarity of the P-51 cockpit actually being a P-47 because those elements don't detract from the consoles gameplay. This title could have been so much more but once again, there is a developer out there that thinks that they have to 'dumb' games down for the console generation.
I should've trusted my instincts I guess when there was no Oleg Maddox or Maddox games label attached to this title.
One of your forum members has summed this console 'GAME' in 2 glorious sentences.
"Gameplay 5/10, Graphics 9/10. It's like a beautiful but very dumb woman"
Here's a link to just one video I made using IL-2 Sturmovik 1946's ingame cameras. Imagine if you could do this & view your dogfights in such a way in BoP. It is however supposedly the next generation of gaming & IL-2 has been around for so long!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g9mL9gaAV6k

Thanks god, everything you say can be fixed through Xbox Live Bazar downloads... but, at which price?

At Last im not alone!
 

Its nice to see that im not alone in my view of a slightly missed opportunity here.I have bought this game and i will play and enjoy it, however if i want a bit of "realism" i'll be returning to 1946, as there are just too many niggly issues with this game. Grief, i sound like a whining never happy ingrate.

I agree with much of what you said, but not in comparing this to 1946.
Compare it to the original release, not the one that came out SIX YEARS later, including expansions and longer development. I've got 1946, not the original, so I'm looking at the features for the first version here:

# Fly 31 types of Russian, German and American planes
# Fly pilot or rear gunner (IL-2 plane types only)

So the original game had fewer planes than Birds of Prey. Gunner view was on the IL-2 only. I would like to have a more useable gunner view or at least control, since shooting and aiming with the HAT while flying the plane at the same time is a little too much multi-tasking. LOL Glad we can shoot from a bomber though.

RE: mapping of buttons on the flightstick
I place that blame squarely on Saitek with this cheap flightstick. What a ridiculous layout of buttons! We need more flightstick options (being actively sold NEW that is), but that isn't Gaijin's fault.
On the padlock, I don't use that I use the HAT. If you use the padlock, again, it isn't Gaijin's fault Saitek was drunk the day they designed this stick.

I also agree about OGF being a brilliant and far underrated game. Too bad the presentation is so bad when the flight is so good (and controls are excellent too for a controller). I wish I could use this flightstick with OGF, but I can't really blame OGF for that. (problem being that the throttle isn't used and rudder is reversed)

The game isn't perfect, but I don't know any game that is. I love it just the same. I think Gaijin did a great job with a game that isn't like anything they've done before. They worked to give us what we wanted in a situation where the publisher didn't start out on our side. Looking forward to future content and a sequel.

Interestingly enough, Oleg and Maddox games are listed in the credits, first column.

Ok, I'm sure I agree with some things in your huge post, but really don't you think you set the bar a bit high? I haven't gotten my copy of the game yet, but as far as the demo shows I think the game is great. If the joystick issue is dealt with the game will be epic. I mean to compare the consol game with a PC version that is like the latest installment of a very popular series is absurd. For example compare the 250 planes in 1946 with the number of planes in the original. It was a long time since I played the original but I think the number of planes were similar to BOP.

Also, how easy is it do you think to present the idea to the producers that you will model 200+ planes for a game that has never been sold on consol? It would be a potential economical suicide. Much easier to do if you do a follow up on an allready popular pc game. But i agree that the german planes should have had a cockpit.

For the third you seem to think it as easy to create a whole plane now as it was several years ago. I don´t think so is the case and if you expect 200+ planes on the next PC version of the game my bet is you will be dissapoined again.

edit: well Raw Kryptonite beat me to the point.

^^^Storm of War: Battle of Britain will only have 17 flyable planes when it launches, but each of them will be 100% complete and far more detailed than the ones in Birds of Prey.

I like your review of the game. I have not purchased the full version yet but I will since I liked the demo enough to buy the retail. I also give you props for the over g fighters comment: it's is a good game and it IS highly underestimated.

I think that IL-2 for the consoles will have a sequel that fixes most of the issues you address. I think that the REAL challenge of this game was how to make a game so specialized (for flightsimmers) accessible on the mass-consumer world of the consoles.

Personally I think I will have a lot of fun playing this because that's the way these things should work out: have fun. I can always dust off the ol' 1946 sturmovik if I get bored.

As soon as I get the full version I will also post constructive comments for all to see.

Agreed BOP is a kiddie game. I am not bothered that I bought it, but I AM PISSED that I SPENT $130 for an ACE EDGE WHICH IS USELESS WITH THIS GAME. Your better off using the game pad and calling this game for what it is...childsplay....after I finish the campaign its getting traded in for Call of Duty MW2 and Im going back to 1946, bah

You guys are a bunch of whiners...............Im glad you won't be playing this great game.

As Kryptonite says the original had only a small selection of planes in it, I've played the series right the way through from the first release to the definitive 1946 version. Anyone buying Birds of Prey and expecting IL-2 1946 was always going to be setting themselves up for dissapointment. This was never meant as a substitute for 1946 - its a console game! Games like Birds of Prey and RACE Pro are breaking new ground for console games, simulations in the own right and not the usual heavily simplified offerings normally seen on the console. They are not perfect but I'm happy to support them in the hope that more will come.

Thanks for the review HH. Any temptation to pick it up has been removed until the patch and dlc.


-maxqubit

You just named a hardcore console game in your post (DR), not to mention driving sims like GT and Dirt. But anyway, the naivety of fanbois condradicting themselves.....jeez, why bother.

It seems nowadays, and I'm sure some game companies will say and actually have said. That the gaming world on PC is dying. I being one of them, am a bit disappointed that PC games are going out, but what game companies should really be trying to do, is make the console games what they were on PC. I know, that BoP was not made to the limits of what the 360 or PS3 are capable of, and if it was. It probably would have been a lot better than Il-2: 1946, but it's all just economics now. No one is making games anymore, just for fun. Money rules in the Capitalist world, and even in the Gaming world.

I still like BoP, and will continue to play. But I don't think it was made to its full potential of a console game.

Raw Kryptonite.

That's a very fair point re: the number of aircraft & to comparing it to the last IL-2 PC title.
the number of aircraft ingame is but a very small point I made, although I'll admit that a third person only view for bombingt in the Blenheim is ludicrous & contrary to what the manual & ingame encyclopea suggests, it is NOT a gunners viepoint but merely the third person camera.
Even the original IL-2 which I am more than happy to compare this to (& can be picked up for less than a fiver now), had not only the mission editor & the quick face-offs, both powerful but so easy to use but also the nuances that are second nature to a flight sim; feel & immersion without the need to rely on cheap & chavvy movie-like over dramatic effects (like a skillfully executed belly landing at next to no speed only to end in a huge explosion). I know this title lacks on alot of stuff but not even a flyby camera? Maybe the console generation don't feel the need to marvel at a great dogfight after a mission but having been a console gamer since the 8-bit NES days, I'm thinking that there's nothing different between someone who enjoys a flight game on PC, console, whatever. We all paid 4 times the current price of IL-2 Sturmovik 1946 & ppl are left with a game that can only be played with a pad, can't be viewed as any form of replay, can't enjoy any real gameplay as a bomber or from an axis point of view, hell, can't even take off at the start of a mission or even in training skirmishes. So much immersion & simple playability has been needlessly taken away from the player .... IN MY VIEW!!!

Thanks for putting me straight though on the 1st point as it was unfair of me to compare it to 1946. But for the guy who thinks I'm raising the bar a bit too high for console games... Hello??? You've just paid between 30 & 40 quid on a piece of software that has been released years after the original. All I wanted was something remotely close to that experience. Hardly setting the bar too high I think!

Soviet Ace, I fear, has hit the nail square on the head & a good point made!!!

For visuals I think it's pretty close to the limit of consols. Multiplayer should be able to increase to at least to 24-32 players. The way multiplayer is set up of course can be improved. Replays/recordings of games would be possible, but not as easy as on PC. Skins on planes won't be possible because the size of them for multiplayer.

Not remotely close? Come on...You have valid arguments and perhaps ve just value different things in the game. For example I don't think belly landings and take offs are sutch a big deal. I wouldn't mind it though.

Damn good point, if console gaming kills PC gaming, then for f's sake, don't force us to play dumbed down crap designed for ADHD, mountain dew slurping, crack-monkey teenagers.

I would be a terrible shame if the flight sim experience Oleg brought to PC gamers died out - even in the face of increased processing power to deliver a richer experince.

Visuals I don't have a problem with. But having the ability to land and belly land etc. shouldn't automatically make your plane explode. Even when you flip, you shouldn't explode. Unless your seriously screwed plane flyability wise, then the possibility of blowing up increases since your leaking oil and other fluids (:P). But like fuzzychicken said, you should have the ability to restart your engine. Just having the little things, and helpful things are nice in 1946, but in BoP, there aren't many of them around to go for.

I read an article on I think it was Gamespot that said PC games were losing money, and Console games even though not as good for Simulators, were becoming the main stream. Like we didn't already know this. But I agree, the PC companies that have began making games for consoles, shouldn't dumb it down. They should keep doing what they're doing with the PC, and incorporate that into their console games.

Is this game missing somethings that we all wish where in there ? Yes it is, Does that alone make it not worth buying , In my opinion Hell NO ! The dev's along with Anton have been very good to this community, they have answered our questions and assured us that lots of the things that we want are on the way.
It still amazes me that some of my fellow pc gamers are such spoiled and whinny little children.
Its the same kind of people that blow a gasket in Bf2 when their "uncapturable base" gets hit ! It really cracks me up. Nothing is ever good enough, and instead of supporting a great game that could help out the sim scene and draw more people in to help a dying breed of games, you just attack it because it doesn't have everything you want it to have.

I'll never understand some of you people. As for the author of this thread, thanks for you time in writting your review. I'm sure you wouldn't have taken the time to write your opinion if you didn't care about what is trying to be done here. I hope that you will find some friends on here and give the game a second chance, and try to enjoy it some. Its not the pc version of Il2 and it never was meant to be that, however it is the BEST WWII Sim ever brought to console. There is lots of fun to be had and yes you are going to have to put in some time and learn to play this Il2 different then the pc version. I know for me that is part of the fun, and I get to meet new people and have some great new Dogfights along the way.
DESODE

I never expected this to be a substitute for 1946.... HOWEVER, I did expect the joystick to work properly and provide an adequate level of control and immersion like 1946 does. You cannot make precise movements with the elevators and rudders when you are trying to line up precise shots because of the crappy deadzone that they did not remove for the flightsticks. That deadzone is not a problem when you are playing modern flying games and shooting missles, but when your flying a ww2 fighter plane and all you got are your guns it is very annoying to constantly bounce your sights above and below your target even when you are making the most minute of adjustments.

THIS IS MY CHIEF COMPLAINT!! I got burned payin $130 for an ace edge because ANTON SAID THAT IT IS THE BEST FOR THE SIMULATOR IMMERSION! Understand what I am sayin to you? The game is unplayable unless you use the gamepad and that is just an utter discrace.

You make some good points Desode. Being a console gamer before PC & if I had a choice to sit up at a pc desk for the evening, or from the comfort of the living room & a 42" screen, I know which basket I'd put my eggs in.
I felt I needed to merely express my disappointments after reading everything in the couple years that led up to release; I was so looking forward to a console-based IL-2 experience. The selling point was always about the game appealling to a Sim fan aswell as the arcade guys. I guess I took replays, take-offs, flyby cameras, cockpits, flight stick playability, cheat-proof MP's for granted in this title because of its illustrious lineage.
I'd like to think of my opinions as more than that of a whining child, especially after having spent so much money on good console games in the past & even shelling out on both 360 & PS3 versions of this game.
I agree with your points all the same & I guess we should all back an attempt to help a "dying breed" of sim games; it's just an expensive way of doing it; buying a title for 40 quid & waiting til they get it right with BoP2; another £40.

Well I don't know about you. But I don't play them, just to tell people at some gathering etc. that I downed 16 He-111s in my La-5FN in one sortie. So in my case, I do just play for fun. Games like these, are just a place to relax and enjoy. Like drinking a cool beer on a hot day. So unless for some reason, you see me talking about how I downed 16 He-111s in my La-5FN in one sortie. Video games are just for fun.

You don't win anything when you beat them, except the little pride you get once you have beaten the game. Everyone including myself gets that.

I have 1946 on PC, its by far the best WW2 flight sim on PC... I also have flight sim x, and the MS combat flight sim 3... I was very happy when I heard they were releasing Il-2 for the consoles...

AS for expectations... This is the first ever true Flight sim on consoles that I know about... i am sure they had others back in the day with poopy graphis no cockpits etc. For being the first entry of a series this game ROCKS!!!! I am sad that MS will not allow my Saitek x-45 to work on the 360, but oh well, I found a ace edge bundle on ebay and after 4 tries at different bundles I got one for 113 shipped ( which is fine by me, since it comes with a game, and its exactly like the x-45 as far as I know.

It is unfortunate that Oleg and the other programmers of this game had to bend to the publisher's wishes... If you know anything about publishers all they care about is money and profit margins. They are not going to allow the dev to "waste time" making every single plane 100% realistic in a first ever release... NO ONE will invest that much into an unproven franchise on a new platform..... with that said, give it some time. Hopefully they will allow custonizing the controls, and or ala forza 2 with the MS wireless wheel allow tweaking of the Deadzone in game..

I love this game right now... I am waiting on doing realistic and sim modes tillI get my ace edge... i think the biggest gripe I have right now is the air starts on all the missions.... I loved 1946's missions where you had to take off, and fly to target. But hey 49.99 with a free T-shirt rocks!!! I basically paid 5$ for the game if you take into account the T-shirt and me trading in 3 games I never played anymore.

only other gripe I have so far is the AI planes. My wingman took a full 6 minutes to down a bomber from 300 ft dead lvl directly behind it... he was firing his guns for the full 6 mins. REALLY? even on arcade I get pwned if I do that on a a bomber. Oh wait one more thing... I hate the auto bailout feature.... and the timer if you chose to continue the mission... seriously... I ended up crash landing a perfectly good plane on arcade mode because they gave me 8 minutes to RTB after I chose to continue... basically had to do wep non stop and got to the base with 1 minute to spare and I still had to line up my approach... nothing like doing a hammerhead stall just to try to land because the timer was running down!

lolz-all the knuckle draggers will be on MW2

unfortunately such untermensch make up the majority of the paying prole public...they fund the development of more unteresting stuff...bit like Good Directors making pape sh!te in order to fund their own pet projects...unfortunately the lure of the big buck somehow makes some of them forget themselves (e.g. Roberto Rodriguez)
________
Hash Honey Oil

Totally agree.

Goody - I can't wait to have another crack at that secret giant Nazi Zeppelin thats based in Cairo and has several squadrons of 190's inside of it!!

#


or the secret Hitler Rocket Stuka Boss Plane-If you look really hard you'll see his little chaplin moustache and in the cockpit is a little photo of Eva ironing his Lederhosen beside a nodding churchill..."smoke me ze kipper. I'll be back unt time for KnokWurzt!"
________
Vaporizer

Blazing Angles!? Not even close.

Before you say that, how about you try every mission on Sim with one, or even two attempts.

Or, is all the hate because the game is easier without a flightstick? Can't learn to use a controller?

+1

people today- you give em gold and they moan its just shiny yellow...

if people honestly want to compare bop to blazing angels then they obviously are frustrated at the lack of a decent groinal attachment for their PC...
________
NO2 VAPORIZER REVIEW

I bolded what I am replying to here....

Its not hate at all... the game is not easier with or without a flightstick... its the fact that not everyone likes the set controller settings programmed into the game... That includes the horrible deadzones that are programmed into the game that are proven to be due to the game and not the flightstick...

give me an ability to swap control sticks and then we can talk about using a controller.

As long as you don't touch the sensitivity levels there is really no dead zone with a controller.

If there is no option to swap sticks in the first update, I do think it would be a mistake.

thats the issue.... no deadzone with the controller... but there is a programmed deadzone with the flightsticks... I am saying this from just reading on this site.. but people have said that their ace edge or av8tor have deadzones, yet if they plug it into a pc and run the calibration there is no deadzone, and you can clearly see precise movements.

I would much rather have to contend with a deadzone then having to re-teach my brain which hand should control aiming..... id say its southpaw, but thats false because in reality BOP is southpaw style compared to halo 3 controls... in halo 3 or any other FPS you aim with the right stick... yet in this game you aim with the left stick...

this just doesn't work right for me at all. its a chore to even fly in arcade mode with the controller settings... but thats why I bought an ace edge. Id rather contend with a deadzone until a patch then fly "backwards" for my brain.

There is NO programmed deadzone in the game.
In fact, it is strictly prohibited by Microsoft TCRs (rules for submission all games).
However, Xbox360 ITSELF has deadzones for all controllers - internal.
Nothing here is in our power (or anyone's, except MS).

P.S. That's not a case on PS3.

Do you think an avid IL-2 fan of old would play this game on any other setting than SIM with no re-attempts? And if you bother to read previous posts, you'll know that I'm a console player from the original NES days so I do know what a controller looks & feels like.
I also know what an immersive WWII SIM feels like & sadly; this ain't it!!!

1. dont compare to pc version pc has alot more power
2. this is not like blazing angels

So can you talk to MS and find out how to set the deadzones on the flightsticks? like you can do with the MS racing wheel in Forza 2?

I do not know how bad it might be, since I don't have the ace edge yet... but I know that you can adjust the "deadzone" with the MS wheel in both the racing games I have... so for instance I can set it so it will not register me touching the brack pedal until I go past 10 %, then it will travel 100% until 95% where it tops out... so I can still push it all the way down, but I don't have to go all the way. ( I might not be explaining this the right way. ) Or possibly talk to MS to allow for some kind of calibration settings via dashboard?

Either way, I can live with a deadzone a lot better then trying to fly with the controller sticks being opposite of how I would want them to be.

Great job either way in bringing a flight sim to the console!!!!

+1
I also expected BOP to be as good as the IL2 1946. Unfortunately it is not even close. The only thing I liked from BOP was its amazing graphics.

Good ol MS controlling the game experince whether it makes sense or not.
Both sony and MS screw gamers in FPS games too, not allowing people who HATE gamepads to use a mouse/keyboard.

At some point they just need to drop the stupid licensing/restriction crap with regards to controllers and make it "anything goes" like with PCs.

the problem is pcs r made by 1 company and software from another however consoles everything is made by same company so they have more power they r intrested in MONEY AND POWER ONLY

Too bad. I'll be holding onto my money on this until...
I loved 1946, etc. By far the most in depth flight simulator out there. MP on Hyperlobby was/is the only way to play. Now that consoles are where it's at, I was waiting and hoping for this one. Unfortunately, IMO the PS3 demo was beautiful but suffered some minor issues. A game that looks this good, as said "jaw-dropping good" - the rest could've, should've been better. Regardless if it's a just a "console game". At 60 USD, I would expect the Luftwaffe cockpits to be included and at LEAST the P-51 pit to be a P-51 pit! Disappointed. Salute Houndstone Hawk.

Tell you what: go ahead and knock $10 off. Just for you. Tell the store I sent you. :-P

...and no, 1946 isn't the most in depth flight sim on a pc. ;)

So, what can be done, will Microsoft fix this or should I just sell my ace edge now?

Are you saying there is NO DEADZONE on the PS3 version? If thats the case I will get the PS3 version instead of the xbox version, please elaborate more on PS3 version deadzone, thanks!

True, but its the best WWII flight sim out there, and I can't see anyone taking that title until Storm of War comes out.

There is a dead zone problem on the PS3 title but not so evident if using the controller. I have 360 & PS3, copies of BoP foreach, an Aviator for 360 & the T.Flight HOTAS X for PS3 & the not only are the dead zone problems obviously evident in both but with the PS3. T.Master stick, there is also the added problem of near unuseable hat switch views .... go figure!

Aye, there is no apparent deadzone using the pad with the ps3, but there is a noticeable one using a joystick. I'm hoping this means it is something that could be fixed, for ps3 joystick users at least.

Yep. It's not just BOP mind. Personally, this has been a thorn in my side for some time and I find it amazing... in this day & age of videogaming, that user mappable button configs aren't standard in every console game period.

It really seems like a no brainer but then again, I'm no programmer. :rolleyes:

But Storm of War won't have nearly as many planes as 1946 did. Shame the producers couldn't enjoy what was. :(

I didn't read the entire thread, so maybe this has been posted before, but...

BoP is on a console!!! Hello? Don't you understand that at all?

I have over half of the keys on the keyboard mapped to different controls in IL-2: 1946... Console controllers have what... Like, 10 buttons and 2 triggers?
They probably could have gone a lot farther with this game but it's on consoles, there is only so much you can do.

Unless of course you could always add more controls so the A+B is to turn the engine on or off, up and down on the joystick while holding A is to increase/decrease prop pitch, etc but then it just gets confusing and ridiculous.

Some things definitely could have been improved upon, or changed altogether. But for the most part, there is a limit to what you can do on a console.
If you don't like it, stick with 1946. Just don't compare BoP to a PC flight sim, compare it to a console flight sim.

(by the way, you could consider Blazing Angels, etc. as flight sims, because they simulate flight, but they do so very badly)

No you can't call BA a flight sim !!!! They wouldn't know what prop wash was untill i hit them in the FACE !!!

LOL , DESODE

Seconded! Blazing Angels 2 is nothing more than Mario Karts at 5'000 ft

And to respond to "Just don't compare BoP to a PC flight sim" ... the devs themselves were promising an experience not far removed from the gigantically superior PC version. It was said many times in the long run up to release that newcomer or SIM fan alike would get so much from this title.
Fully with you on the lack of keys & certain limitations but Over G Fighters managed brilliantly with all these factors to represent a much more hi-tech air combat scenario.

Storm of War may only start with a few aircraft but they will be perfectly represented with flight characteristics to match & 3D, virtual cockpits & gunnery stations (as has been the norm of this series) will go without saying aswell as the other simple things such as take off as standard, being able to view a replay ... I fly on sim in BoP & while it's great players are restricted only to the cockpit view, the same player wouldn't even know the state of his or her own aircraft at the end of a fight & is missing out on so much action.
A flight SIM without all cockpits, no takeoffs & no replays, no remapple button configs is like FIFA without Goalkeepers, Offside rulings & Goal replays!!!

Everyone is taking the words 'flight sim' to the extreme. All it means is the simulation of flight. Some definitions of flight-

1. The motion of an object in or through a medium, especially through the earth's atmosphere or through space.
2. An instance of such motion.
3. The distance covered in such motion.

4. The act or process of flying through the air by means of wings.

Takeoffs and landings have nothing to do with simulating flight, or even simulating combat in flight (in combat flight sim). I will agree that they probably could have put those features in, but not including that doesn't make the game less of a flight sim. And please, remind me, if you're all about realism then why would you want replays in the first place? When is that realistic?

And, 1946 is a flight sim without all cockpits by the way.

I'm sorry some of you are disappointed with BoP. I myself am a flight simmer from as far back as - wait for it - the late 80's. I went the PC route for a decade, pouring money into upgrades, flight sticks and graphics cards. I have since given up that overtly expensive addiction and kept my gaming to the Xbox 360.

Which brings me to my point; Il2 - BoP may not be your miraculous cross over from PC to console but it does offer a thrilling flight experience, unrivaled on gaming consoles. Sure, not starting off at the airfield, no remapping of controls, touchy controls and lack of crucial virtual cockpits are issues but it's not enough to write the game off. The devs have done a fantastic job and we should be grateful and hopeful that we may get more and more flight sims on consoles - especially as PC flight sims are almost extinct.

I am having a great time and can't get enough. I'm also extremely impressed with the skills of some online pilots.

I do wish for more immersion, replays, etc. but perhaps that will come in time. For now it's a welcome change to FPS'ers and car racing.

Thumbs UP!

Another thumbs UP!

ahhh Kartman you were owning the hell out of me online today lol...and when I finally, FINALLY had you in my sights and was pumping hot lead into you the FREAKING ROUND ENDED!!
Broken Xbox 360

Add me as a friend and we'll go at it again. Although my dogfighting skills leave a lot to be desired - very rusty, very rusty.

Thanks for the thumbs up fellas :grin:

Well said Kartman. Nice to read a constructive, level-headed series of opinions & views. I have a thing or two in common with you, it would seem, from being a simmer from as far back & I'll admit I was more than desperate to want the realism & immersive experience on my console. All I wanted was IL-2 from the comfort of my living room; so much so that I didn't hesitate to order up a copy for each of my consoles. The true SIM experience in my view is about the overall mission. The dogfight is just half of the ingredient. Limping away from a hard fought dogfight with a damaged plane & possible wrecked gear & wondering if you'll even make it back to base to finish your mission & then to try & get it to the ground in one piece; I started this thread after halfway through the Scicily campaign whereby the secondary objective at the end (after having your mission start some 300 metres from your target), was to merely leave the combat zone ...

My opinions obviously haven't made me many friends here at BOP so maybe it's time to go quiet & let everyone enjoy their game.

I will agree with your comment also on the quality & skill of some of these guys on the harder settings though & I do commend those of us that don't cheat in a flawed MP that almost invites a bad loser to ditch his or her plane when they have been out flown & out gunned.

+1 for going quiet and not continuing this. Obviously nobody is going to change anybody else's opinions here, although I will admit many good points were made on both sides of the discussion.