No cockpit view for german planes???
 

Hi everyone,

Sorry if I am posting a double thread... but...

I have read in a french article concerning BoP multiplayer, that there will be no cockpit view when playing the german planes... :confused:

for those who understand french here is the link: http://www.micromania.fr/zooms/index...pezoom=Preview

Is this true??? Or, have I missed something? Is there any thread concerning this?

Thx

oh, i don´t hope so. :confused:

I've read through the article, although my french isn't that good ( only had it for two years in school, then I switched to german, which I can read better than french), but as far as I can tell there is no mention of missing cockpits in multiplayer.

edit: completely missed the first part of the article, you're referencing to this part right?
"Les appareils allemands se limitant au multijoueur. Et, grosse déception, ces appareils "germains" n'auront pas de cockpit. "

seems to me like a really strange choice to make by the dev team and I assume this was only the case in the preview version. most preview versions of games only contain a few levels and unfinished multiplayer things. I think this is the case for this preview version too.

hopefully there will be more planes with cockpits than just the ones you fly in the campaign missions, but if not maybe they can release the rest as DLC?

The writer must be misinformed then....

Anyway I think it's not possible because Anton said that all 3 lmodes would be playable on multiplayer. And Sim mode implies only cockpit view so...

There must be a mistake! (hope so...)

I'm afraid it's true. The german planes are only playable in multiplayer and won't have a cockpit :(:confused::(

Anton said all planes would be flyable in free flight (training).

Yes I am referencing to this part of the article....
Micromania is a great videogames dealer in France and it is supposed to be reliable.

Sorry what do you mean "free flight"?

probably just cruising around shooting AI planes without any mission, sortoff like quick mission in the original IL2.

Anton said the planes would be available to fly in free flight, or training missions where you can just fly around or set your loadout of whatever you want it to be.

Can't see it being true as it would turn a large proportion of the IL2 fanbase away (including me) ..... mind you I don't recall seeing any cockpit shots of any german aircraft up till now.. :confused: :(

Sim mode also includes Virtual Cockpit!

So this might be pretty bad news!

Here is the thread that talks about it.

http://forum.1cpublishing.eu/showthread.php?t=8613

Unfortunately, I think more emphasis was put on the arcade aspects of the game and winning over that audience than was put on sim mode and winning over the traditional flight-sim fans.

I'm still buying and playing the game...and probably playing it for a very long time. It will be my first "sim" that I've played so I'm sure I will enjoy it. Though, I can't help but wonder "what might have been" if compromises hadn't been made for the arcade mode and more emphasis would have been placed on the sim aspect. Even if it is my first "sim", the lack of cockpits for all of the planes is very disappointing and like everyone else here, I pin my hopes on DLC or a sequel.

Humm... Sorry trk29 I still don't understand what a virtual cockpit view is ;)Can you explain? :grin:

sorry but i will not support this if it is true , i wont buy the game if i cannot fly a bf109 with the cockpit on.

thats just beyond bad decision making

You'll find pictures in this thread

i really hope to god this isnt true , the game is broken if this is true

No Cockpit on German aircraft ?... No..just unbeleivable !
I can not beleive that !!!
It would be really a shame... no...just impossible !
I hope with all my heart that is a misunderstood.
See ya
++

Thx H Lecter... if this is a virtual cockpit view then this actually means that we cannot fly a german plane in Sim mode because Sim mode (as I see it) must be played seated in a cockpit.
This also means, I guess, that Sim mode players like me will only be flying allies planes... and this leads to an Allies versus Allies multiplayer battle(with cockpit view)... that sounds weird doesn't it? :rolleyes:

I think this report was an early preview of the game. I was at the Games Convention in Leipzig last year, and played this game there. The IL2 Sturmovik hasn't a cockpit at this time too.

i really really hope too!!!

Unfortunately, the article I am refering to has been published today, just a few hours ago.
Also the writer is using the future to describe the problem so....

Yep it does. :(

I wish we could get a statement from Anton. But he mentioned something about an NDA with the publisher, so he can only tell what he is allowed to.

I would not be able to refrain from buying IL-2, but it would be a serious disappointment.

Are...you...serious?

I just bought a friggin' Ace Edge stick for this game and now it doesn't have a major component as to why I'd want to play it?


I can't stand console sometimes. They are so...just...dumb....and...eRehehgrg

I truly hope this is misinformation. That would be such a horrible shame to not have 109 or 190 cockpits. I just see that as completely ridiculous.

I'm seriously pissed. I know, it's a game. But dang. NO COCKPITS FOR GERMAN PLANES?! Even on a gameplay standpoint, that means that in multiplayer if you play for the opposing team you a) don't get the full immersion you should be getting and b) have a SERIOUS advantage over any Allied players.

Here is a pic

What about this post?

What I don't understand is that all this stuff has already been researched and released in previous IL2 games. Even if you can't get the actual resources from the other IL2 games, you have an EXACT copy of what you have to do. Look at the cockpit Maddox made and copy it. No research, just one guy that can run a 3D modeling program.

Classic. Epic. Amazing.
LOL

I'm with Guiltyspark on this one. No cockpit for the Bf109, no purchase for me. In all previous Il2 games the main plane I have flown is the Bf109 in the cockpit view. If this is true, I will wait until the game is patched to include cockpits for the German planes. Failing this, I will not buy the game and will stick with Il2 1946 until Storm of War is released by the real Il2 developers.

I have not been put off by the lack of controller options, the news that some planes would lack cockpits, the lack of realism in mission layouts, completed planes being cut out deliberately prior to launch for DLC, planes having the wrong cockpits, not being able to customise the difficulty levels, and the lack of a German campaign but this will completely ruin multiplayer for me so I will not buy the game until it is fixed.

trk29, thank you :grin:

Well, actually this is no cockpit at all... "superman view" would have been a better name for this pic ;)

We know that not all planes have cockpits, and it kind of makes senses that the ones that you will not be flying in mission or campaign mode are the ones missing them. And you can use virtual cockpit in sim mode, just not external view.

Shame I assumed it would be the bombers only without cockpits, all the ME and FW lovers are going to be disappointed.

This isn't a couple of the less important planes not having cockpits. This is every plane on the German side. You would have thought that at the very least the most important German fighter, the Bf109, the fighter built in the largest numbers during WWII and indeed ever, would have a cockpit.

I myself loved to fly the 109 in the original IL2, but it not having a cockpit is not going to change my decision on buying the game. I am still getting this game no matter what. And this is all speculation, this has not been confirmed or denied by Anton so everybody shouldn't be getting so upset.

It doesn't make sense to have dogfights with allied and axis on simulation and the axis have the advantage of having a bigger field of view but none of us know if this is true.

I myself thought that the bombers were the ones without a cockpit but that was my speculation.

Of course, you might be right in that this might not be true because it has not been confirmed by Anton. However, the reason why I would buy this game would be because it would be an improvement at least in some respects over Il2 1946. I'm not buying this game just because I can. If it cannot even match basic features like cockpits then I will stick with 1946, which has far more campaign options in many other theatres, a huge number of aircraft, a campaign/mission editor, replay mode, mods and custom skins, more players online, co-op, more and better flightstick options, etc, etc. The only conceivable advantage Birds of Prey has over 1946 is graphics, and this alone isn't enough to sway me if Birds of Prey is otherwise seriously inferior.

If this is true then it will be very disappointing. I will still get the game though. Why? because there's no other option for a WW2 console flight sim and I can't afford a new PC!

Anton, please tell us it's not true! :cry:

That will really hurt MP games because if you are flying against other pilots who do not have a cockpit then you are at a disadvantage if you use the cockpit view. Therefore MP flying will likely mean no cockpits at all. :(

Wow. Hope this isn't true. If I buy this game I'm definitely going to wait at least a week after the release in case there are any other "issues" that come up. I really wanted to fall head over heels in love with this game but it's just not happening :(

Is it me or is there way too much speculation about a game that is being released soon. What are they hiding?

Anton has said there is some stuff he wants to tell us but can't because of publisher. Everybody may not agree but the publisher have their reasons.

Same here. This list of unfortunate things is getting too long to ignore.

I'm gonna wait and see now...

OK I appreciate where he is coming from but Big Red Lights are now going off in my head.....

It could be because they don't want to turn people away with a lack of things that people would want.


We'll all see, I suppose. I really do hope I'm wrong. I was really looking forward to this game and no German cockpits just really takes the wind out of my sails. Or gas out of my airplane engine, whatever you guys want. Or...steam out of my locomotive. Just stop pestering me.

Does mine.

Not upset, just going to wait to make sure game has a complete cockpit set and is supported with a patch if necessary. IL-2 has chosen a very competitive time to release a title. Not the the time to release something unfinished with a bunch of promises.

I hope this gets cleared up by 1C soon.

The game is Gold, which means it cannot be changed before launch. The only good solution would be for the devs to produce a patch with the cockpits in the meantime that would be available when the game launched.

Man, I preordered this and everything. I just can't see it being true. A huge dissappointment in my eyes. I'll still buy the game, but wow, big news.

Yeah that's why I never preorder anything. I've been burned before and I swear it'll never happen again. God do I hate being such a pessimist about things like this but $60 is a lot of money nowadays, at least for me.

Yup.

I've been lurking for quite some time now and recall seeing a post by Anton stating due to the cost of getting additional content out any patch would be released the same time as the DLC. That could be awhile. Longer than I care to wait.

If it turns out that 109 and 190s have a cockpit along with at least the higher profile planes then I'll pick it up. If not I'll be playing mini ninjas or something until it gets worked out.

True, pre-ordering a game is just setting yourself up to be disappointed. I normally wait until the review embargo is over and check out the forums to see what the people that have bought it say before making my final decision. The advantage of this is games normally drop £5-£10 after the first week of being on sale anyway.

Thankfully after playing the demo I knew I would not be buying until they patch the control sticks so I can swap them AND put the stall wind buffeting noise back in anyway.

Smoke me a kipper.......

I totally agree. Learned my lesson with Race Pro.:mad:

I'll be back for breakfast...

I was caught out by Race Pro aswell, I so wanted it to be good.

Here it is
 

I'm not typically one to post on development forums, but I feel I need to say something.

No cockpit view for over half of the planes is simply ridiculous and inexcusable. I agree that part of this is laziness, and part of it is simply testing to see how much they can get away with. If excellence is expected, excellence will be delivered; but there has to be consequences for not. I don't disagree that some people have worked very hard on this, but the bottom line is simple; it doesn't matter how difficult it is to make or render, or create, if accurate cockpit modeling was top priority, then it would be delivered.

I am a commercial pilot and a CFI and have been flying since high school. I have also been playing flight sims for just as long. True flight enthusiasts would not buy a game labeled as a "sim" unless the game had full cockpits. And until now, that's what the publishers have given us. However, there seems to be this culture associated with consoles that gives the developers the right to gloss over features. Part of this might stem from the audience. I don't know.

You have to understand what true commitment to quality is, though. You have to understand what it means to have a work ethic. Simply doing the job is not enough. This is their career, this is a game they expect to make quite a chunk of change from, and they owe it us to not comprise in key areas. We let them do it, though. We let them do it by making excuses for them and not holding them accountable.

I've read all of the posts and I am so glad to see all of you speaking out for this silliness. Except for a small few, I am amazed at the solidarity of the fans. The aviation world is a close community, one that typically has a singular vision; whether its pilots, or flight enthusiast, we are a select bread of people with specific, sometimes misunderstood, interests and expectations. Cockpit views may not seem like a big deal to some, and no doubt reviewers who have never stepped foot in a plane smaller than a Boeing 717 will probably be among them. I, however, have limited R and R time and I cannot afford to buy a game that does not let me make the most of this time. As a pilot in real life, I can't stand playing third person flight or racing games. Even nose cams or bumper cams don't cut it. Most of my friends don't understand, and that's fine (they aren't pilots or enthusiasts), but here we have a game made for those like myself and I am appalled, though not entirely surprised, to see what's happened.

Please, you all are professionals. This is what you do for a living. Take the extra time. The game is releasing for $49.99, which is ten dollars cheaper than most 360 and PS3 games. Charge that extra ten and I doubt anyone would care so long as the product was finished.

Kids who are reading this, please understand how important it is to have a good work ethic. I made it this far in life though hard work, dedication, a willingness to push past obstacles, and the attitude of "the bare minimum is not good enough." I expect this same ethic from my flight students. I expect it from a company that wants fifty dollars in return for a product. If this were any other product besides software, it wouldn't have made it off the assembly line.

Anton, I'm sure you are a hard worker, but I'm speaking generally, and mainly to the philosophy of the company as a whole. I do hope that these rumors are not true, and if they are that we will be treated to a patch, not DLC of which we will inevitably be charged money.

Thanks for taking the time to read this and keep up your voices everyone.

Im sory you know all of it behind this? Do you? There may have been multiple reasons that the cockpits arnt included! For one you dont know how many cockpits arnt included - it could only be bombers not included, they could have included the gunner positions in this making it seem worse. You don't know. I want to be a pilot just like you! Im guessing you fly commertial? If anything. But I will make do with what i have and will get. If you don't like it so much dont buy it, wait untill they have eather added the cockpits of atleast confirming its not as bad as first concieved.

Huh? Race Pro is incredible. The only thing wrong with that game is having *me* behind the wheel. I get tired of games that are all eye candy and no substance. IL2 looks like it'll cover both bases very well IMO.

Sorry guys, there's nothing that's going to keep me from buying this game, much less some translated website's comments. Half the time they can't get the number of MP players right or even a launch date that's already been announced. I put very little stock in those places, their facts are too often rushed and not verified.

I read french. My take on the PREview

Campaign = Allied only
MP = ALL planes but, NO cockpit view on german planes

The guy played MP on Arcade only (could not do in realistic/sim) ... He played also the Bf-109 E3 in MP so i guess he tried to get cockpit and found it was not there (last part is speculating on what he tried/tested)

So, my interpretation is indeed NO cockpit view for german planes

Mind you it says PREview ... so i don't know what build he was playing!? (could the NO cockpit view be info he got from 505 ... or just his impression from a preview build???)

There is still hope but not much imo (like <2%)

There is nothing that will refrain me from buying it either... that's too big a chance for consoles to let it go away.

BUT, I was just asking a question and until now nobody seem to be able to answer it.
Concerning the "website comment translation", it is perfectly right. It does say that there won't be any cockpit view for german aircraft... I know it because I am french so I speak french ;).
Also, as I said, this website is supposed to be reliable because that's the biggest video game dealer website here in France and it is supposed to be well informed.

And finally, I REALLY REALLY HOPE THAT ALL THIS IS JUST A MISTAKE AND THAT WE ALL BE ABLE TO FLY A GERMAN AIRCRAFT USING THE COCKPIT VIEW.

Regards,

I hope so too, but if it is true then I will not buy the game until this is corrected.

Looks like the old game rushed to market unfinished by the publisher routine to me. Hopefully they will release updates if not I might wait for storm of war, damn shame.

So if he chose simulation then he might have gotten a cockpit?

Not doubting anyone's ability to read French, I'm doubting the author. We also had a preview from a major outlet here (Team Xbox no less) that made it sound like there were only 8 people in MP, which wasn't true.

"in the eight-player-max multiplayer portion"

Poor wording at BEST, but it still caused an uproar. Sounds pretty definitive, but as well all know, it's not true.

I'm not saying if the no-cockpit thing is true or not true, or if someone can read French or not. I took 3 years of it myself and don't remember a damned thing, so you're better off than I am. I put no stock in even 2-3 of these places reporting the same thing---they've all reported the same misinformation before. Regardless, I'm buying the game.

NO! ... he played on ARCADE, and my guess is that he tried the different views and found no cockpit view (only 3rd and virtual)

Anyway, only hope is that it is a preview build (but seriously, i don't think the cockpit views of german planes will be in the final)

:(

What I was saying is if he had chosen SIMULATION versus ARCADE maybe he would have had a cockpit seat.

IIRC, the demo games were all from November of last year. We never even saw a cockpit picture until a couple of months ago. The propellers were too dark and that was fixed since then too. Any number of things could be going on here.

Total Speculation
 

After reading all of this replies I am sure Mr Anton is either, relieved because he knows this is not true or swetting like crazy because he knows that sales numbers for sim players are going down the drain...

I get lights and music in my head, but only when I'm squeezing a freshly peeled kitten....

I don't think so because you can have cockpit view in ARCADE too (and i'm guessing he tried to switch to that and failed)

LOL you must be right.... it's one or the other.
But I am sure Anton is not swetting too much since sim players are, most probably, not their primary target.

And you are right also when saying that all this is pure speculation but what else can we do while waiting for the final release? ;)
At least, that shows all our interest in this game.

Surely they modelled a few axis cockpits to facilitate sim mode mulitplayer?

Otherwise this game is going to sink FAST.

There's no excuse for the 360 version - it has been finished for a LONG time. They could have easily spent time working on axix cockpits.

I'll be cancelling my pre-order unless it can be confirmed all planes in multiplayer have cockpits with exception to bombers. If you're flying with the most realistic settings then fighting someone whose view is not hindered in any way by a cockpit gives them a clear advantage though I can't believe a developer would be so short sighted as to leave out cockpits on some planes and hopefully the article referred to has made a mistake.

Why do some people think research has to be done to model these cockpits that should already be in the game?

The research was done for the original IL2. Even if BOP can't get the actual resources to use in game they have a PERFECTLY modeled cockpit that all they have to do is COPY.

Give one half decent 3D modeler one week and he can COPY what someone else has already done all the work for.

what about that post? the bf 109 , fw190 , and stuka have to be modeled

i dont give a shit what time contstraints you have

God if the Stuka doesn't have a cockpit say goodbye to dive bombing. We need those marks on the canopy.

P-51, I don't know everything. There's no need to be defensive. If you want arcade games without cockpits, they already exist. I was only hoping this one would be different.

I hope you do become a pilot. It was one of the best and most rewarding decisions I have ever made.

Finally, and I mean no offense, this is the attitude that I am talking about.

If we want excellence then we must expect excellence. It doesn't matter what the company is or who runs it. You are, of course, entitled to this opinion and I am not trying to fight you. Just know, however, that simply by keeping this type of outlook, we allow mediocrity by these companies. Take no excuses.

Good luck and I will plan to purchase this game after I have researched further.

If in fact cockpits are missing for the Luftwaffe I can't help but to agree with you. The difference is I hold both developer and publisher responsible if BoP winds up being a steaming pile. Both parties entered an agreement, both parties are responsible. I stopped buying the poor pitiful developer, evil slave driving publisher routine a long time ago.

In addition it makes you wonder what else failed to make the gold master. Flight Models, damage models and load outs verified and attached to correct aircraft? Uber AI maneuvers? The list could go on and on and on.

I enjoyed the original IL-2 Series but since then 1c sends the message they have been resting on their laurels ever since.

I don't understand why Anton is being so silent about this.

I'm a bit disappointed also. I may just pick up IL-2 1946 instead.

I saw Anton on here earlier, and when I looked at his profile he was looking at this thread. So no answer probably means there is nothing good he could say about the situation, and for him, confirming all the Axis planes lack cockpits would just make things worse. Hopefully this thread will convince him to put cockpits high on the list of patch priorities.

All i gotta say is: aaaaaarrrrrrrgggghhhh. I hope it's not true, but if it is, it's not TOO major a fault, but German cockpits would definitely be cool. Since you spoke about IL2:1946, are the lobbies still active for that? And are there expansions for the game or is '46 an expansion itself? I didn't ask on the '46 forum because that would look really dumb, but I have a few questions about that anyways. Maybe someone could watch videos and help us out a bit with the cockpit issue...:confused:

Still many lobbies for '46 and there will be for a good while to come (but it does use hyper lobby so if you do play multi prepare for some headaches first).
'46 is sold as il-2 and every main expansion that came out including '46 all on one disk, so it's all you need. There is going to be atleast 1 more patch for it (v4.09) that will add new planes/cockpits and other features.

Thanks Flanker, perhaps I'll wait till the patch comes out and then look for the series bundle on Ebay. Good to hear that the lobbies are still active, but I'm sure most of the guys on there are experienced and have learned all there is to know, while I have not played any IL2's up until BoP. BTW, what is a "hyperlobby?" *blushes*

Hyperlobby is a server system of sorts, it requires an account to use but is quite good once you have it up and running. BTW, I wouldn't wait for the 4.09 patch, because its release is still at some unknown but hopefully not to distant point in the future, and the current version of 1946 is still well worth playing.

I tell you guys, this just shows how much they have rushed this game.
I think theres enough acade flight games out already. This game is ment to
be a flight sim, so there should be cockpit view for all planes.

anton is it true that there are no german cockpits?
 

Can you just give us an answer?

Its really important

I think we need to just deal with the grim reality. I mean, they had to repurpose the P47 cockpit for the P51 so I don't have ANY hope at all for the Axis side....

the sky sooooo clear...
 

no worries bro trust me anton is not that stupid for just to apply part plane got cockpit view & sum were not...:rolleyes:

Roger thanks.

or maybe he juz too lazy to respond for sumtin nonsence like diz assumption...;)

i'm more looking up thingy in positive way...

atleast now i'd one so longing game awaits me...

thank you anton whoever you are :grin:

This game has nothing to do with flight sim, its just awsome graphics and
for those looking for another arcade flight game. If this was a flight sim, there would be cockpit view for these planes. And also have accurate
cockpits instead of a P-47 for a P-51. Now there is a problem with
german cockpits. This game may look awsome, but its turning way into
another arcade flight game.

I don't think he is lazy, he probably cannot comment on it.

i understand that this may not be a flight sim to the standards of recent PC games over the year, but can people really slap the devs and fans in the face enough to say its just graphics and arcade style.? are you positive that with a flightstick and on sim difficulty you wouldnt be able to call this a real flight sim? yes, it may be missing things, but what games perfect; especially one trying to bring a genre to the consoles. This games gonna be good, its gonna be fun - i think were sending out the wrong messages.

If true, this would have to go down as one of the stupidest game development/publishing decsions of all time right?

I'm leaning towards it being untrue simply because it's too stupid to actually believe.

VERY disappointing if true! :(
But...I'll still be buying this game on release day either way...

okey if it was really2 true then...may i know the source of these assumption & please don't get me wrong at least something logic...yeah i know they can do anything with it...but do take note 1st of all it was a simulation + arcade + multiplayer...they MUST had implement a fair gameplay & it will be definitely fair in every basic aspect...it will be the same, how can some of the plane got this & some doesn't...

take it like this for example, ferrari got driver hud & lamborghini doesn't had, but they race on the same track...it was a silly things to do & let say if they didn't had a licences to implement the hud option, then don't bother to put the option on the first place.

dear trk29 no offence juz take a deep breath & u'll get use to it.;-)

You're darn right it is!

Name one that is half as good as BOP will be.

I don't know why you refer to BOP only as "arcade". It will be a flight sim for consoles.

I agree that no cockpit views of german planes would be a weird mistake. That is why we will soon find out that it's just a rumor.

Agreed. It must be a rumour (Aussie spelling).

They would not compromise 50% of multiplayer so stupidly.

If this is true, I can only imagine the panic Anton and some of the devs must be feeling, seeing as how everyone is getting really worried and frustrated, and is threatening not to get the game because of this.

I however, will be getting the game since I recently ordered a joystick, and am getting it two days late, which should be today, but also because the game is going to be enjoyable regardless.

I mean, yes, this is a very, very big mistake if it is true.. but its not going to destroy the game as you guys say. If this is the case, they obviously worked out ways in which to make online equal, and fair.

And as you guys were mentioning, there is always room for patches.. but the only thing I don't understand.. why couldn't they just take the cockpits from IL-2: 1946, and somehow implement them into BoP.. it seems like a simple thing to do, just take the main template, and then tighten up the graphics a bit.

Anyway, all in all I hope to god this isn't true, and if it is, I however, will still be purchasing this game, and will enjoy the hell out of it!

The way I see it, PC gamers are the ones who are most upset about the game missing this or MAYBE missing that. Because they've had great games in the genre for a long time now.

Console gamers, like myself, will be much more forgiving simply because a game like this has never been made. Does that mean I would be happy that the game is missing one or two important things? No. But some substituted cockpits and some missing cockpits (supposedly) won't turn me away one bit.

BTW, if it is true there are missing pits I would bet my bottom dollar there will be an update that includes them on day one or shortly thereafter.

same discussion thread (mod please merge)
 

dear xnikex please merge this thread with these one: http://forum.1cpublishing.eu/showthread.php?t=8772
since it discussing the same topic.

TQ

I don't really get this whole "arcading it down" for the masses when it comes to console. Look at Forza 3. Or the juggernaut Grand Turismo series. FPS games rarely have "simulators" but even now the Operation Flashpoint series is coming to console. I get that you have to have a mode that lets people who aren't hard core enjoy the game. Totally understandable. But know what? When I bought Forza 2 I wanted to get into it more. I wanted to turn off the assists. In order to compete online with that I needed a wheel. But that's that next level of the game that I really enjoy. I COULD still be happy playing the simplified version of the game, but I don't, because that's not me.

I guess it's like, for a company who has a history of making authentic, in-depth games, why penalize the fanbase you've built by ignoring a clearly important aspect of the "simulation"? It's the same business with all the controller discussion. It's a WWII flight combat game. You want to play in the simulation mode, you should think about dropping the $40 and get an Aviator at least (if that breaks your bank, my condolences).

After hearing Anton's views on the whole "why can't we play as the Germans in the campaign" debate, it's clear to me that he feels like Axis airplanes are very much in second place. While I disagreed with EVERY reason he gave, and even much of his views on the subject of war, his decision to focus on Allied aircraft in and out of the campaign, I'm sure, is more of a time and resources decision. Not every company has the infinite budget that iD or Valve or in-house EA franchises do (or name your big-budget game).

This whole "strive for excellence" thing sounds a little self-important, and a little naive about the gaming industry.

But, I'm with you, it still really bugs me...this lack of attention to some really impressive fighter planes that served in WWII (regardless of nation). And now that Axis planes have no cockpit in multiplayer, as I said before, that now affects the gameplay. It's much easier to see everything in the HUD display, so those true Allied simmers are going to be at a disadvantage. And dammit, the Me 109 in all it's variants (specifically the G2) is my favorite plane ever. It's just a cool friggin' airplane. And it's not like it's obscure. It's really sad that I can't line shots up through the reticule, and instead am forced do it on some display that looks like it's out of a modern jet fighter. Luh-ame.

Anton, if you're reading this, I'm not saying all this because I hate the game. I actually dug the demo so much, as I said, I bought an Ace Edge. I think we're all a little distraught because we feel like it's not what we were hoping it to be. A pretty obvious detail is sadly missing (according to some French dudes).

So, in conclusion, WAAAAAAA.