Windows 7 and IL2... No love?
 

Hi!

Anyone else that has tried IL2 on the Windows 7 beta? I've tried some other games that seem to run better than on Vista (that hog), but unfortunately IL2 on OpenGL settings does not work for me...

I have an Nvidia 8800GTX card with the 181.20 drivers and IL2 4.08 with the latest (?) graphic dll's ( 02/27 2008 ). When I run it the screen gets vertical oscillating tears/ripples all over like an old CRT that is about to die... Naturally it works on DirectX - but with bad FPS and quality etc...

I know Windows 7 is just a beta - but it's interesting to hear if the problem affects others (ATI users for example)... Since Vista was so bad at OpenGL until SP1 I had hoped that SP2 (Windows 7 ;)) was going to be even better at OpenGL... Yeah - that's stupid.

Going back to trusty old XP again...

/Mazex

http://gozr.net/iocl/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=176

Read some good tests by EcoDragon

Mmm, that looks rather promising - and EcoDragon obviously got it running in W7. He does not say his videocard - but he at least has the same CPU as me, and the same overclock ;)

The score is not better that XP, but it's close enough. W7 generally feels a lot snappier than Vista so I have good vibes about it - even though I get a lot of bluescreens right now... As the expected release is late 09 they have a lot of time for fixing them. As it is now it almost feels like running Ubuntu sometimes - and thats good!

"Windows 7 and IL2... No love?"
Don't bother making any decisions on the new OS now. Test results showing how poorly IL-2 runs on Vista or W7 is a pointless exercise. Wait for SoW and the retail release of W7 and then worry about weather the new OS is worth your hard earned $$$.

Give that man a cookie! Be amazed that such an old game even runs on these new operating systems!

I'm pretty sure Eco uses an 8800GTS. As far as the Windows7 beta, I'm not too concerned. While is popular (even politically correct at times) to bash MS, their track record in learning from their mistakes is pretty good. I doubt Windows7 will be any different. I'm still running XP Pro SP3 and intend to leap-frog Vista altogether. Preliminary reports on driver support, speed and compatibility of W7 all sound like things are moving in the right direction.

my .02c

Mmm, the thing that worries me a bit though is that Vista has performed miserably in OGL and Vista 1.1 (Windows 7) seems to continue that tradition. The only modern "in engine" clip of SoW we have seen lately (the editor") was running in OpenGL...

A problem? Hope not... SoW will probably have DirectX support as well, lets just hope that it's not as bad as the dx mode in IL2 in that case. I don't really understand why to bother doing both OpenGL and dx if you only release the game on the Windows platform though...

Anyway - it's the first public beta and it's so much better than Vista was 12 months before release...

I have no performance issues using OpenGL in Vista. Whats the problem?

Indeed it is good to see that Windows 7's development even in beta form is quite good. I was reading about the UI and usability of the new taskbar/dock system and it sounds fantastic once people get used to it.

It's not OpenGL that is the issue, it's running IL-2 on a modern Windows OS that has a completely different way of displaying dots on the screen than XP. Under XP OpenGL, DX and the GDI existed side by side and all on top of the NT Kernal which meant function calls made via any one of the APIs could directly access the hardware.

With Vista and future versions of Windows, all OpenGL graphical function calls are now made through a couple more layers before getting to the hardware, where DX function calls go straight through to the hardware.


http://i.msdn.microsoft.com/ms797619...MSDN.10%29.gif


While you may say this means is OpenGL is slower, I would argue only very slightly. The real reason IL-2 is slower on Vista than XP is that it doesn't make use of the new WDDM. As DX10 games basically have unhindered access system memory, CPU and GPU resources, where older games have to share with other apps.

Yes, I run an 8800GTS 512 card, and was running 178 series drivers in each OS (though a different version is provided by nVidia for Win7).

I did see a few fps less in win 7 vs vista, but keep in mind that we are talking about 2.6% average fps decrease.

I've added system specs to that post (at the end).

FSX saw a 7.8% performance loss at Medium-High settings, and pretty much no loss at Ultra High settings. My usual settings are in between, so I see about 3 fps less than usual by running 7 vs XP.

Black Shark had crazy GAINS in performance, minimum fps increased by more than a factor of 4, average fps were nearly doubled.

So for the imperceptible loss in IL-2, the nearly imperceptible loss in FSX, and major gains in Black Shark, I'd give it a thumbs up!

That says nothing about the desktop user experience which is certainly much better than XP, and reportedly a bit better than Vista. I wouldnt so much blame the OS for any hits, it actually appears to handle resources with much more intelligence than XP does - the apps you run just have to allow it to do that!

[edit] Here are the other benchmarks I've run with Win 7 vs XP - Nothing fancy, but quick and dirty and get's the job done: http://www.txsquadron.com/forum/index.php?topic=2675.0

I have the same problem with Il21946 and DCS:BS GUI (Launcher) only. The workaround in Il2 for me is running it in a window equal to my monitor resolution with taskbar autohide on. Performance is very good, although it is running Aero Glass in the background, I get avg FPS of 40-50 with Vsync on.

Does anyone know what is actually the problem here? I thought it was drivers, or Aero Glass GUI, but I have R4850 card and mazex has nVidia and we both have the same problem... One wird thing (one other guy running W7+DCS noticed too) is that screen refresh frequency is fixed at 59 Hz in W7, and cannot be changed to 60 Hz. Maybe that is the issue?

Other specs below:

ASUS P5K MoBo
C2Duo 6850 CPU
6 GB DDR2 800 RAM
R4850 512 MB graphics
Audigy 2 ZS soundcard
Samsung 215 TW monitor running at 1680x1050

Haha valuing my free time, don't experiment since XP works like charm:cool:.
/Log off:)

Thanks for nothing :-P If you have nothing to say on topic you could at least stay away.

My IL2 is stable and as good as in Vista or XP. I just installed Windows 7 on a separate harddrive, installed drivers for Win7 from Windows Update.
(Q9550 - 8800GTX - 4GB RAM).
TIR4, Saitek drivers as well as TS are fine too.

I can run IL2 from the original drive, but I copied the Ubisoft folder to my Win 7 harddrive in order to make HL happy enough to find the game.

You need to to use the graphic drivers that are supplied from Windows Update.

Hello,

I can't install IL-2 on Windows 7. After I run "a.exe", when it says "Configuring Windows Installer" it crashes and says "This program doesn't function anymore, you'll be notified if a solution is found". I tried running it as Administrator, disabling UAC but no sugar. The problem is with the windows installer file "IL-2 Sturmovik 1946.msi".

Any help is appreciated.

Rax

Ha! There seems to be a bug with CEIP(Consumer Experience Improvement Program) that causes Microsoft Installer's and Internet Explorer to crash.

Here's the fix if anyone experiences the same problem:

http://w7info.com/articles/2009/01/w...r-problem-fix/

I am using those drivers. BTW, found another workaround (not perfect, I admit) - I'm running Il-2 on full screen 1680x1049 - somehow that one line makes all the difference...

TX-EcoDragon, please post an steps you went through to get il2 to run on windows7 or even if it worked with no steps needed post that too please. I haven't tried myself yet but I would like to know if there is a solution.

I have no problems istalling IL2 in Win7x64 but but i have low fps in Opengl and same good fps in Directx like Vistax64 that i'm using...
In Opengl mode with Win7 cant get better than 20 fps...

AMD 5200+ oc at 3GHz and ati 4870/512Mb...3G memory..

~S~

Same issue here. GTX 275. Is there any solution known yet?

If you are using the Win 7 beta, why haven't you got the Release Candidate installed ?

Download it from here both versions 32 and 64 bit. :)

http://technet.microsoft.com/en-gb/e...?ITPID=mscomsc


I have had no problems with running a 9800GTX+ and see no difference in FPS with Win 7 RC v XP but I do see some smoothness over Vista, might be placebo but the FPS counters suffering the same as me :)

Nvidia Driver 185.85

his is a WHQL-Certified driver supporting GeForce 6, 7, 8, 9, 100, and 200-series desktop GPUs and ION. This driver package installs WDDM v1.1 for GeForce 8, 9, and 200-series (DirectX 10) GPUs and WDDM v1.0 for GeForce 6 and 7-series (DirectX 9) GPUs.

This driver supports all of the new Windows 7 GPU-accelerated DirectX APIs: DirectX Compute, Direct2D, DirectWrite, and DXVA-HD

New in Release 185 drivers:

* Adds support for the new GeForce GTX 275 GPU.
* Adds support for Ambient Occlusion – the newest NVIDIA Control Panel feature to offer enhanced 3D gaming realism exclusively to GeForce GPUs.
* Adds support for CUDA 2.2 for improved performance in GPU Computing applications. See CUDA for more details.
* Expands GPU hardware acceleration for the NVIDIA Video Encoding library to GPUs with less than 32 cores. Applications using this library include CyberLink PowerDirector 7, Nero Move it 1.5, Loilo SuperLoiloScope MARS, and CyberLink MediaShow Espresso.
* Accelerates performance in several 3D applications. The following are examples of improvements measured with Release 185 drivers vs. Release 181 drivers (results will vary depending on your GPU, system configuration, and game settings):
o Up to 25% performance increase in The Chronicles of Riddick: Assault on Dark Athena
o Up to 22% performance increase in Crysis: Warhead with antialiasing enabled
o Up to 11% performance increase in Fallout 3 with antialiasing enabled
o Up to 14% performance increase in Far Cry 2
o Up to 30% performance increase in Half-Life 2 engine games with 3-way and 4-way SLI
o Up to 45% performance increase in Mirror’s Edge with antialiasing enabled
* Automatically installs the new PhysX System Software version 9.09.0408.
* Supports GeForce Plus Power Pack #3. Download these FREE PhysX and CUDA applications now!
* Numerous bug fixes. Refer to the release documentation notes.
* Users without US English operating systems can select their language and download the International driver here.

Existing Support:

* Supports single GPU and NVIDIA SLI technology on DirectX 9, DirectX 10, and OpenGL, including 3-way SLI, Quad SLI, and SLI support on SLI-certified Intel X58-based motherboards.
* Includes full support for OpenGL 3.0.
* Supports NVIDIA PhysX acceleration on a dedicated GeForce graphics card. Use one card for graphics and dedicate a different card for PhysX processing for game-changing physical effects. Learn more here. Note: GPU PhysX is supported on all GeForce 8-series, 9-series and 200-series GPUs with a minimum of 256MB dedicated graphics memory.
* Supports GPU overclocking and temperature monitoring by installing NVIDIA System Tools software.

ION
GeForce GTX 295
GeForce GTX 285
GeForce GTX 280
GeForce GTX 275
GeForce GTX 260
GeForce GTS 250
GeForce GT 140
GeForce GT 130
GeForce GT 120
GeForce 9800 GX2
GeForce 9800 GTX+
GeForce 9800 GTX
GeForce 9800 GT
GeForce 9600 GT
GeForce 9600 GS
GeForce 9600 GSO
GeForce 9500 GT
GeForce 9500 GS
GeForce 9400 GT
GeForce 9400
GeForce 9300 GS
GeForce 9300 GE
GeForce 9300
GeForce 9200
GeForce 8800 Ultra
GeForce 8800 GTX
GeForce 8800 GTS 512
GeForce 8800 GTS
GeForce 8800 GT
GeForce 8800 GS
GeForce 8600 GTS
GeForce 8600 GT
GeForce 8600 GS
GeForce 8500 GT
GeForce 8400 SE
GeForce 8400 GS
GeForce 8400
GeForce 8300 GS
GeForce 8300
GeForce 8200
GeForce 8100 / nForce 720a
GeForce 7950 GX2
GeForce 7950 GT
GeForce 7900 GTX
GeForce 7900 GT/GTO
GeForce 7900 GS
GeForce 7800 SLI
GeForce 7800 GTX
GeForce 7800 GT
GeForce 7800 GS
GeForce 7650 GS
GeForce 7600 GT
GeForce 7600 GS
GeForce 7600 LE
GeForce 7500 LE
GeForce 7350 LE
GeForce 7300 SE
GeForce 7300 LE
GeForce 7300 GT
GeForce 7300 GS
GeForce 7200 GS
GeForce 7100 GS
GeForce 7150 / NVIDIA nForce 630i
GeForce 7100 / NVIDIA nForce 630i
GeForce 7100 / NVIDIA nForce 620i
GeForce 7050 / NVIDIA nForce 630i
GeForce 7050 / NVIDIA nForce 610i
GeForce 7050 PV / NVIDIA nForce 630a
GeForce 7025 / NVIDIA nForce 630a
GeForce 6800 XT
GeForce 6800 XE
GeForce 6800 Ultra
GeForce 6800 Series GPU
GeForce 6800 LE
GeForce 6800 GT
GeForce 6800 GS/XT
GeForce 6800 GS
GeForce 6800
GeForce 6700 XL
GeForce 6610 XL
GeForce 6600 VE
GeForce 6600 LE
GeForce 6600 GT
GeForce 6600
GeForce 6500
GeForce 6250
GeForce 6200SE TurboCache™
GeForce 6200 TurboCache™
GeForce 6200 LE
GeForce 6200 A-LE
GeForce 6200
GeForce 6150SE nForce 430
GeForce 6150 LE
GeForce 6150
GeForce 6100 nForce 420
GeForce 6100 nForce 405
GeForce 6100 nForce 400
GeForce 6100

* Release Notes (v185.85)
* Control Panel User's Guide

with windows7 RC i have experienced none of the problems i had with the beta.
Win 7 64bit rc is, at this time, the windows with the fewest problems ive ever had with windows since 2.1.
ok, i have a hd4870 1gb
in short il2 runs like a charme with Trackir5 Sw (TIR4pro), saitek x52pro and rudder,
TSO, TS, Versionswitcher.
only fovchanger doesn´t recognize commands within the game.

Funny coincidence... Since my original post I have changed card from my old 8800GTX to a GTX 275 ;) As it is now my new 275 GTX works great running IL2 4.08m (latest gfx dll:s) on Windows 7 RC1 x64 with Open GL. I am using the Nvidia drivers 185.85 (downloaded from Nvidia and not via Windows Update)...

/Mazex

That's good news.

Hi guys. I solved the problem with the latest geforce drivers (version 185.85). Now everything is perfect :)

I'm also running 7rc and enjoying it! I love the split pane feature, it makes transferring files around sooooo easy! So far the only problems I've had is with TSD (won't overlay IL2) and QMT (just won't run). Everything else works fine!

What is TSD? What is QMT?

TSD = Team Speak Display


QMT = your guess is as good as mine

QMT

Quick mission tuner (probably)

285 vs 8800 ??
 

TX-ECODRAGON, THANKS FOR THE COMPARISONS.

Interestingly the comparison XP: 8800 vs 285 begs more questions. Take a look at the MIN FPS. These two cards have equivalent MIN FPS.

Two possible explanations:

1. At the point where maximum action is taking place it is your CPU that holds back or bottlenecks the 285.

2. Aliens ?

This means that on an LCD with 8400 CPU there is no real gain where it really counts of upgrading from 8800 to 285.

Two Question sir:
A. Are there any differences in visuals between these two cards?
B. Distant horizontal lines : do both cards shimmer/flicker the same?

Thanks
CS

I did time in DFW.....I found the peak heat of Summer rather MILD and relaxing! :)

Like the other guy's said, Team Speak Display, and Quick Mission Tuner.

Sorry, I don't come here as often as I used to.

I have Windows 7 64-bit loaded on a separate hard drive from my XP Pro SP3 install. I have a i7 965 EE mounted on a Asus P6T Deluxe V2 and the 64 bit drivers and utilities from the AsusTek website are sketchy at best. Some of the drivers don't install/work and my favorite utility, TurboV doesn't work at all. Can't get it to install. I'm not impressed so I might install the 32bit version. TurboV is great because you can OC the mem and processor from Windows, although it doesn't stick after reboot like OC'ing from the BIOS. It's still handy because you can experiment with most of the voltages and timings, plus the multiplier.

Why can't Microsoft finally push 64 bit by only offering 64 bit period?? That would force all software and hardware companies to code in 64 bit. All processors since about 2003 are 64 bit anyway!!

I'll try the 32 bit version and I'll bet all drivers work. Only trouble is it will only see 3GBs of my 6GBs of memory........

Running Vista Home Premium x64 here now and it's running smooth as butter on my i7 machine. I realize it's not Win7 RC, but being the same kernel with similar compatibility issues, I just thought I'd post such.

The only issue I had was with TS Display and TS Overlay. Neither would work with 64 bit and would tell me as much upon installation attempts. Another community member pointed me in the right direction though and now I have TS Overlay working flawlessly on my 64 bit OS install.


My new rig:

ASUS P6T Deluxe v2
Core i7 920 @ 3.8ghz
Thermalright TRUE copper HSF
6GB Corsair Dominator 1600mhz (running at 1523)
X-Fi Titanium Fatal1ty Champion
300GB VRaptor
500GB Seagate 32mb cache
Corsair 850w PSU

This thing straight up rocks.

Well, the server version of Windows 7 (2008 Server R2) is going to be 64-bit only. They're getting there ;)

I've even heard devout haters of M$ like W7! It is certainly a step in the right direction for M$ and does work extremely well. It flies!

Chaps

I am having terrible trouble getting IL2 to run at all.

I have installed from the dvd using a.exe as setup failed.
I have set IL2fb.exe to Admin and compatability = WindowsXP(SP3)

When I start IL2 to loads to 5% and then stops and drops out to desktop

System:
Core i7
Gigabyte MB
nVidia Geforce GTX 275 with 190.38 driver
850w Pwr
750G HD
6MB ram
Win7(x64)

Could this be video driver related?

Gos

Hi

You don't need compatibility mode on at all.

Did you install into a folder outside of the default Programs folder ?

With Vista and Win 7 installs usually make a "Games" folder outside of Programs, what type of IL2 1946 have you got a download or a securom version if your USA ?

Check your listed ram you have it at 6mb not 6gb if im correct ?

Mmm, don't think so... I have a similar setup, Windows 7 x64 with 6GB Ram on a Gigabyte P45 motherboard (Wolfdale 3.33Ghz C2D) with a 275 GTX. I also have the Nvidia 190.38 driver running IL2 with no problems... Audio driver maybe? I am not running in compatibility mode by the way...

All other games work fine?

/Mazex

That's good to hear what is the work around for getting TSOverlay to work?

Specs:
Windows 7 Ultimate x64
Q6600 @ 3.0GHz
GTX 275
4MB 1066 RAM
TIR 4
FOV Changer
Triplehead2go 3840x1024
Driver version: 195.62

IL2 fully modded to AAA UI 1.2


Comparing between XP Pro x32 and Win 7 x64, I get a consistent 15% fps loss in Windows 7.

This is progress according to Microsoft. They run the inverse of Moore's Law. As computing power doubles, MS must bloat its OS code to run half as fast.

Clearly they are behind the curve as you are only seeing a 15% drop.

It's not really Microsoft in this case. I blame this on both ATI and Nvidia. I know because I can tell you first hand their 64 bit MotherBoard Drivers and Video Drivers are the root of the problem.

Test after test Windows 7 has shown that MS heard us and got rid of a lot of the bloatware you talk about.

For the most part Modern Games seem to run really well its just that the stability has gone down and I blame that on the OEMs and their drivers.

please share how did you make TSO run in win7 64bit?
i can't make it work
thx, lz

Official Statement

System Requirements

This software is legacy, therefore it does not support:

* Windows Vista or Windows 7
* Any Windows Server OS
* Any 64-Bit version of Windows
* Integration with TeamSpeak 3
* DirectX versions > 9

The following are the system requirements for TSO at 2006:

* Windows 2000 or Windows XP SP2 / SP3 32-Bit ONLY.
* DirectX 9.0b or 9.0c
* TeamSpeak 2 2.0.33 (Official Client)
* Nvidia ForceWare Drivers 53.04 or newer
* or ATI Catalyst Drivers 4.3 or newer



But you could try this For TS2 only not TS3

http://www.projecttint.com/teamspeakoverlay.php

Installing:
1) Right-Click (RC) installer> Properties > Compatibility > select run in WinXP compatibility mode; Disable Desktop Composition; Run this program as an administrator
2) Click OK
3) Run installer

Running program
1) Right Click TSO icon and select all the options as above in step 1
2) Run TSO
3) Click Options > Debug > Compatibility "Use alternative DirectX method"
4) Add your TS name in the general tab
5) Click enable and run IL2

Hi Thanks

i managed to find a simple solution and now have TSO working fine on 64bit win7.

as i had TSO installed on my other PC on win XP i went and just copied the whole TSO instalation folder into a USB Drive and copy paste into my Win7 C: Hard drive, just run the exe and it works perfect.

i assume it runs from the folder and doesn't even have any registry key as tiny progs often don't even mess with the registry.

if anyone need the TSO installed folder drop me an email to drorsdd@gmail.com and ill send you a copy.

Cheers, LZ