Been a while....
 

Since I popped in here... did Oleg ever say anything on the whole issue of mods other than what we already know... just curious.

I alway's wanted to hear more on the matter of mods from Oleg, but he has not said anything new lately, that I am aware of

the word I hear is
 

I think he said " no soup for you!" :lol:

Naa he didn’t! Crawl back under the rock!

We have a saying here in the north; as you ask you get your answer! I presume you all get it.

Viking

Oleg is join AAA to help in the MODs, this way he will have more fans and time to SOW, be sure! I dont know your AAA name yet, but i know he is there.

:arrow:Yaaawwwwwnnnn....Dead dog , leave it that way...:rolleyes:

You must be from Stockholm, Alabama! :lol:

D@mn.. I come in here and ask a simple question and get this BS?

Get over yourselves.

It was a legitimate question.. Take your smart remarks and shove them up your behinds gents...

Good to see you Fly. Sorry I missed you on TS the other night. I hope you get that rig of yours together finally... Still waiting for BoB with baited breath.. till then I am enjoying 46... still the best thing going.

Ignore the children.

Oleg has not made any statement regarding the mods. He is no doubt aware of them, and hopefully learning something about what it can do for his product too. I would not expect to ever see an official approval or condemnation though. Cheaters would see approval as a green light and Ubi would possibly be annoyed. Condemnation would make for a return to the witch hunts of last year and deprive him of some very useful market research.

I'm happy for things to remain as they are. I reckon Oleg Maddox withdrew all personal endorsement of the Il-2 series the day he allowed the Lerche to pollute the planes list. Given that, I doubt Oleg looses much sleep over the now-prolific Il-2 modding community. I'm sure the dangerously over time and over budget SoW is his biggest concern these days.

SoW is over budget? I expect delays in release, but I didn't know there were major problems, I thought Oleg and Co. were just being picky.

or Stockholm Sweden... that's a Swedish expression :D

Ummm...weeeell did everybody die and Feathered become 1c spokesman? Because if he didn't I wouldn't believe another scream in the dark lol

I thought Feuerfalke was 1C spokesman here??

Bearcat, this is the last thing I've seen concerning Oleg and Mods:

http://forum.1cpublishing.eu/showpos...&postcount=656

Aviar

Wow!...That's about what I expected from him. Good for him :-P

Quote Bearcat

'D@mn.. I come in here and ask a simple question and get this BS?

Get over yourselves.

It was a legitimate question.. '

No Bearcat it wasn't a legititmate question. It was a fishing trip that would get the poster banned by you if it was posted at Ubi. Don't 'whiteant' this forum as you did over there.

I don't think that's quite true. In fact I think Bearcat posted just the opposite view not very long ago over at UBi. I might be mistaken, but I think there has been a moderating of the positions on mods over at those forums. I guess I need to check closer, as I'm only going by (un)-total recall. I'm not sure I think it's a fishing trip, as you say, though I'm not quite certain of your meaning in using that term here. Clarify, please?
Flyby out

A very useful for word for conspiracy theories. Someone who white-ants is not a white-ant but a white-anter.

Just adding to the nonsense... I Hope everyone had a great Christmas

WskyStr8,
I want to back up what I said about Bearcat's representation of a moderating (milder) view of mods to IL2 over at the UBI forums. Check out this link to his posting: http://forums.ubi.com/eve/forums/a/t...3/m/7441010176 May I suggest you take what, on the surface, seems to be a personal issue with Bearcat up with him by using the private message option? It just seems wrong to call someone out (a white-ant-er) in an open forum, impuning someone's character by name-calling.
Flyby out
Flyby out

Let me know when you pass Mindreading 101 because you obviously have no clue into whats going on in my head...

Thanks Aviar. Yeah I remember that.. I was just wondering if after the first year he might have said anything else on the subject seeing as how it turned out differently from the way many pro & con thought it would. IMO not all bad.. not all good... but certainly not what many myself included expected. This is still te best d@mnd WWII flight sim on the market... :)

Thank you too Flyby.....

I signed up for mindreading 101 and they gave me this t-shirt on the first day and told me the first lessons would be about "Know Thyself".

http://www.greekshops.com/images/Tshirts-New/262.jpg

I dropped the course, no way I could go there!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rTens4i32b0

I'm on a two week ban from there right now for my more than vocal oposition to the mods. Seems all of the moderators over there are now Mod USERS...and the 1st time you speak out about it...ya geta pm or a ban.
here's the message i got with my 2 week ban.

I have no idea who these jerks are over there anymore. none of the old hands are still around. In March it was a ban to even talk about the aaa mods/cheats over there. Ny November, not only can you talk about them, they're incouraged and supoported by the mod staff. WTF happned in just a few short months?

:arrow:The tables have finally turned....;)

Does that not tell you that UBi have no involvement with Oleg anymore.

Copperhead first off I was not the mod who banned you. I know who it was and I know why he did it, I would have handled it differently, but I understand why he did it.

Mods.....

The policy at UBI changed on the subject for various reasons, like it has at SHQ & M4T as well.. Mods are still not allowed to be linked there, but open discussion is allowed simply because to not do so in light of:

A)The mods are not going anywhere. From day one when the sound mod was made public and even at the height of the schism between the two camps on the issue it was obvious that the world as we knew it had ended. From the very beginning I tried to point that out in order to deal with it in a manner other than sticking our heads in the sand and acting like it didn't happen but I was lambasted and slammed from all quarters for weeks. Well guess what. Like it or not the mods are still here and like I said from day one they didn't go away.

B)The widespread cheating that we all feared would follow these mods based on most of our previous experience with mods never happened. Partly due to the complication of the code itself not everyone can grad the SFS extractor and begin building their fantasy Raptor. That's a good thing.

C)Some of those mods are actually pretty well done... like the one that lets you put bi directional controls (as in up-down, open close, in-out etc..) on various controls that were formally unidirectional or a toggle like the radiator, the minimap zoom, the tailhook or landing gear. Or the one that lets you fine tune your views so you can have externals.. but only if you are dead or on the ground, some of the FANTASTIC new maps and many others.. that have absolutely nothing to do with any aspect of FM or DM and everything to do with making the best WWII combat flight sim ever created to date even better.. which I thought was not possible. We at UBI just decided that we would no longer criminalize half the community. MODDING does not equal CHEATING. Cheating is cheating.. and cheaters will cheat, granted they will use mods to do so if they are available, but they like the mods will be here regardless.. to continue the former policy on the subject was just stupid.


You got banned as much because of what you said as how you said it. You can't pop into a well established, often monitored and pruned for just such comments thread calling people cheaters and restarting old debates that had been dead for months and not expect to have problems from the moderating staff that you are creating more work for. The same attitude that has always gotten you banned has risen it's head again, with the same result. The issues you had addressed had been dealt with and the bottom line is the same as it has always been Lee... If you don't like them then don't use them, but they are there, they are NOT going away until the sim does, and personally I think that partly because of these mods the sim will be around a long long time... longer than it would have been anyway simply because it was just such a great product. You cannot come into the forums beating your chest and name calling and not expect to be dealt with so cut the poor victim nonsense and suck it up. You are not nhew to this. How many times are you going to cannonball into the pool before you get it through your head that the lifegaurds don't appreciate it and will yank you from the pool when you do it? You are not a stupid man.

Lastly ... your signature basically insinuates that anyone who uses mods is dishonest and a cheat. I don't know who you associate with, but the mod users that I know are all decent guys whom I have a great deal of respect for and most of whom have contributed much more to this community over the past 6+years than just lip service and they certainly dont deserve the insinuated slander that your "flying dirty" sig implies.

You do what you want to do... but if you come back to UBI and start the same stuff the same way the same result will happen. Also... all the moderators are not using mods... only some of us, myself included. However those who have for whatever reason chosen to NOT take that step have at least gotten to the point where they can see the good in some of these mods, and have managed to seperate their yuse from the character of the users. I suggest you do the same.

You will take into consideration that while all of this heated debate was going on....i wasn't around. At the time when i went offline in march...they were a no no. In November when i'm able to get back online....they're the cats meaow. which at 1st left me shaking my head going" WTF?"

as for the rest read the other thread here.

Actually talking with some of the folks that are in the community there has been no contact from either the developer or the publisher.

Copper, you were offered the chance to start your own thread at ubi and discuss the mods as long as it was civil and as long as it wasn't in the thread that you tried to start it in. You didn't take that oppertunity, instead you decided to throw that oppertunity away in favor of continuing your uncivil activities in that thread where it did not belong. THAT is what got you banned (BTW, it was not me that time either), it was not your oppinion, it was not your veiwpoint that got you banned, it was your inability to follow the rules.

No. when i did open my own thread....it was closed and deleted.
and what got me banned was the "langauge". According to the modderator that gave me the two week ban. Funny...it's the same langauge that i've used for 8 years on the boards there. Both in agitation and in humor. and i'm not alone in that as others have often done it as well. The point in fact that a few of them have chosen to single me out speaks volumes. Weather or not that is actually the case....remains to be seen. But from where i'm sitting....if it quaks like a duck, walks like a duck, acts like a duck & looks like a duck....then by God its a M*t#3r F*7^#ng Duck.

QUAK QUAK!

As for me, I don't care about mods vs cheating, but after reading few posts here, just want to say: ALL mods for the IL-2, so far, are LAME.

Just my 5 kopeek (russian equivalent to cents)... ;-)

Nice input.

While most of the mods do enhance the overall quality of IL2, it is ture that the weapon mods and FM mods totally destroy the online play.

What weapon and FM mods? I'm sure they're out there but I've never seen them and never seen them used online.

I thought all this talk finished months ago?
The vast majority of the most vociferous anti modders are now using mods as well!
As for the ubi forum,my personal opinion is that when all mention of mods was banned,the forum started to die,as that was/is the ONLY thing happening now in il2.
I thought offensive language and personal attacks were banned there anyway,so anyone doing it should not expect any degree of protection from a moderator when they do it,no matter who they are.The fact they used to get away with it is not a good reflection on how the forum used to be moderated by some ex mods.

1+ :grin:

About the only thing I've seen in the form of a Weapons mod is to change out the belting on ALL airplanes to include APIT on those that carried it. That includes both Allied and German planes.

In terms of some guy using MK108 .50 cals I have yet to see anything like that.

Even in the modding community, weapons and FM mods are a big no no. The mods are meant to enhance the enjoyability and realism of Il2, nothing more.
As far as cheaters are concerned, I am sure there are some. Name me ONE game that someone has not found a way to exploit something and have an unfair advantage over others.
I have friends, good friends who use this mod, and in no way do I question their integrity.
There is even a Unified Installer that automatically installs the best mods. This way many people can fly together in a server and know they are using the same stuff.

In the only modding "community" YOU know... but there are many modding communities, and very actives, some of them offering "mods" for weapons and FM.
.... each of these communities generally pretending they follow the "right way", with the best possible documentation, ect... and also explaining ont their own forums that the other communities are just amateurs....

Just as in any usual modding mess... ;)

IL2 online is almost dead... not because of cheating... but because almost nobody plays the same game.

Certainly there is alot of truth to what you say. As well, I bet many files are shared via e-mail to friends amoung friends. My biggest hope is that SOW will be left un-touched by peoples wanting to correct, or make it better...I hope that it has a long on-line life, without these problems

Rama:: Hint -- they may not wish to play with you. I always said online play is *nothing* more than social interaction. Yough BEAR you remember that. Mods have allowed people to freely associate and break free from the snotty behaving "online" gamer minority that was allowed to dominate the ubi forums for years. You see the same behavior in playground bullies, and then you see them get "mad" when their rule over the playground is threatened. Basic behavior seen in children and poorly socialized adults.

SaQSoN:: I dunno. Some 3D model makers on Oleg's team hope to independently mod BoB And Beyond.

"lame" -- Well yes SaQSoN you are mad as a little playground bully. Many of the new mods are more advanced and more liked than some game content you (or others) made when working for Oleg.

Time for Oleg to build a new team?

i think it more human competition than anything else

Exactly! Social interaction includes Human vs Blue Side competition as a subset.

you seem to have much anger :confused:

hehehe :evil:

Oh, well, they sure HOPE to do so. :) The question is, WILL they do it actually in their free time, after working all day for Oleg? Oh, well, we'll see. Anyhow, if those guys will fulfill their plans, their creations will not be lame, at least.

Mad? Oh, no. I am just a man, who doesn't wear the pink glasses. A mere observer, so to speak.

That's really funny. All the mods for IL-2, the public had access so far, are unfinished, bug-ridden, poorly done and unbalanced in many senses. Lame, to be short, which I pointed in the first post.

Oh, and "more advanced than some game content you (or others) made when working for Oleg" are, probably, those "Frankendick" planes, slapped together from other (stock) plane's parts, eh? :grin:

Let me guess: you suggest for it those guys in T-shirts with "Lamerz alive, join us!" logo? ;) A proud owner, by a chance? :rolleyes:

I don't know where you fly but there's 800-1000+ on hyperlobby every night, the same as there was before the mods, so the whole "online is dead" bullcrap doesn't hold water. It didn't hold water when the mods first came out and it sure as hell doesn't now that they've been out for over a year.


Where are you getting your mods, close that site and never return....

Off-line play will never compare to organized on-line wars until the AI can compete and communicate with human players. I don't see the AI becoming that good for sometime.

Some of the mods are interesting with decent maps but they will always be limited by the IL-2 engine. Il-2 will soon be a small part of the community when ROF and SOW are released in the new year. Most modders will move on to the more comprehensive modding tools of the new engines.

Hyperlobby dead? Still a 1000 people on it when I'm on,same as there has always been.

And,just one example Saqson,do you really think the official 1C P47 cockpit is better/more accurate than the modded one?

You would have to take your head out of the sand to know that... and if one keeps one's head in the sand...

Well I am glad that those folks dont come into any of the coops I fly in... I have yet to see anything that could not be attributed to lag or pilot error/skill. I know there are other modding comunities and I know there are people out there who have no qualms about cheating... but I have yet to come across many if any...

SaQSoN:: Things other than aircraft. Maps for example, visual effects, more functional Full Mission Builder. Now, there are new aircraft in work -- I think P-61 for example. Anyways, as I don't do 3D modelling myself, I often use frankenplane methods in the StrikeFighters.

SaQSoN:: What is funny is the people making and enjoying these "inferior" mods are paying your salary through Oleg, and we notice you are not being specfic here (ie...you use amatuer gamer snot behavior). A few weeks ago, a Ussia.gov senator was caught saying that the tourists (Ussian voters) stink during the summer. Maybe the Senate could use a new senatorial team.

If you wish to talk in a professional manner here with Oleg's customers, we may talk. If you can only offer little computer gamer snot insults, find another job, please!

Urofo (to RAMA):: Online may be dying with respect to no-mod playing. There isn't anybody left in the sim, except maybe the one-man Copperhead Squad. Words out that even Billfish went mod. Is that true? What did that droid try to tell Cleo in Cleopatra2525....mmm...once you go droid, you never go back. That line didn't work though, at least not in the cleopisode (Mind Games).


Urufo (to SaQSoN):: hehe :grin::):grin::o:mad::grin::eek:

Senator Backtracks on Smelly Capitol Tourists Remark....with dramatic re-enactment of Senator Reid greeting visitors... :grin:

~> http://www.nbcwashington.com/news/lo...ts-Remark.html

If you stink - you stink. It's a fact and it's stupid to deny it. And, it's a duty of your co-citizen to remind you about basic hygiene. So, I am with the senator on this. ;) Wash yourself often, America! :grin:

Oh, yeah, those with water on slopes and not on 0 height, with lame texture tiling and port cranes standing on each other... Yeah, great things. :rolleyes:

Cotton-like smoke? Nice, nice. :rolleyes:

They were in work for years. If people weren't able to make them to the quality standard with the help from MG, how will they'll be able to do it now? Another lame models? No, thanks, seen them enough.

They don't, actually.

If someone says straight, that your work is lame and you should enhance your skills and your aesthetic perception (if I may say so) and you take this as an insult - then it is as stupid and lame, as become angry, when someone says "you're stink, go wash yourself", particularly, when you actually do stink.

Looks like the anti mod "bullies" got pushed out and the "pro mods" bullies moved in... sorry gents, that's the way it reads

A lot of them are the same people :)
Thats right,most of the real 'anti hackers' now use the mods.
Anyway,I leave you all to your delusions,and my surprise that these threads are even allowed to run on the official forum. :)

I stand corrected :shock:

Looks like the anti mod "bullies" rolled over and have become "pro mod" bullies

For coop, you don't have much to fear...
Most of these communities are also flying in inside their communities (one squad or a small group of squads), playing their own coops or their own online campaigns.
The online community is split between many communities, each with their own mod packs (and since mods in different packs use the same java classes with different modifications, these packs are not compatable together)

Someone like me who don't belong to any of theses communities, can't play in games hosted by members of these communities... except if accepting multiple installs of multiples modded games.
If this someone is like me and don't want to fly any mod.... then he's restricted in HL (for flying coops) to fly Airforce War (which attendance has dramatically reduced since 1 year... even if HL global attendance, mostly in dog sessions, hasn't reduced that much).
The time everybody could enter a coop proposed on HL is over.

It isn't a big issue. ROF will be available sometimes in 2009, and SoW:BoB probably end of 2009/begining 2010.... and IL2 will then be restricted to some peoples only interested in modding (like for CFS3 for example), but all non-modder players will switch to the new sims.
... and the IL2 online agony will get an end... ;)

SaQSoN, as someone contracted by Oleg you should really refrain from slandering Olegs customer, it's unprofessional.

ok number one you........i didn't attack you so you need to keep you pie hole closed. One man squad...hmmm yes that is correct. At the momment.
i have neither the time nor desire to work on building anything regarding the 311th untill SoW.
1. becuse my home/work life absorbs so much of my time,
2. becuse at this point with all the mods and ramant cheating....
it's pointless to put in any type of group practice, activites to compeate online as a team. A coheasive unit. (something i'm sure you would KNOW EVERYTHING about huh.) What good would it do to compeate as team online when the question of dishonesty fouls up the lobby with its rancid stench.

As for Billfish...when in the sam hell did i ever say she uses mods? name one. I've never said anything negative about her and never will. My comments about her in HL are usually about how she killes me anytime were in the same coop. Face the Girl is an ACE and doesn't need any help to get a kill. Where as you just seem to be an Ass.

Sigh i'm not gonna get banned from here to. he's not worth it.:(

Copper, you did attack him, you attack a great many people when you imply that mod users are cheaters. In fact what he said about you is quite mild compared to what you've said about others who use mods.


Oh and yes, Billfish does use mods now.

Lame? Are you sure? It's not that everything in Il2 is perfect ;) Few quick examples:
GAME
http://img244.imageshack.us/img244/1...0000fs5.th.jpghttp://img258.imageshack.us/img258/2...0003ff2.th.jpg
RL
http://img214.imageshack.us/img214/2...1278so9.th.jpghttp://img530.imageshack.us/img530/9677/brntrds5.th.jpg

http://img520.imageshack.us/img520/6...0001ec5.th.jpghttp://img258.imageshack.us/img258/6...0002fh2.th.jpg

What do you think about this? Lame? Is game going to be lamer if these errors are corrected?

Wearing sunglasses all the time is not too smart either.

BTW Happy New Year to You ,Oleg and the rest of the team, good luck with SOW. :grin:

FC

I never singled any one indvidual out. Period.

Well Billfish does what she does. That's a choice that she made for herself.
Has little to no affect of my opinion of her as a virtual pilot or a person.
Same with Bearcat. He made that choice for himself based on what he belives. Since both of these ppl had my respect prior to what ever choice that they may made for themselvs regarding this issue...it has little to zero correction of my opinion of them no matter weather i agree with thier choices or not. Since there was a familierity there, these are ppl whom i flown with for years, and that have my respect...free pass. I belive that neither would or would need to lower themslevs to manipulation in order to win. They have higher standerds for themselvs. And they have my trust in that regard, as in others.
While i may paint that whole entire section of the community with a very broad brush....there are exceptions IMO.

By the way...I KNOW what your fishing for....and you need to get better bait.
Just becuse i'm from Alabama and i'm ruled by my emotions....does NOT tanlate to me being stuipd. So get over yourself.

FC99, you image hosting site gives porn pop windows when viewing your images, even on firefox....

Well IMO the IL2 online agony is self induced.

If I was running a server DF or coop with a stock map and a stock planeset you could join it. Unmodded and all... The reason why there are conflicts with mods and unmodded flyers is because one may not have a certain map or aircraft.... There is a reason why there are so many people using these mods nowadays.. and it has nothing to do with a lack of character.... What I suggest that you and others who feel as you do like Copper & Thor.. etc... do is duplicate your 46 install, which is what I did when I first tried the mods... and Install them to the duplicate folder... and try it for yourself. Fly the planes... check out the maps... even if as I did you do it with a critical eye... looking for the smoking gun... You wont find one. It took me 9 months to try the mods because I had to see for myself how the community would handle the situation .. and another 2 months of flying a completely separate install before I was convinced that there was nothing to fear. Many of the folks who have had issues with mods have installed them wrong or they got conflicting mods...


Not only that... the lines between Coops and DF servers are being blurred. There is a new mod out that allows moveable objects in DF maps... it is still in BETA because it still has kinks.. but it is on the boards... being able to respawn in a coop will basically allow long coops with multiple scenarios limited to the time and creativity of the mission builders... One could conceivably survive a weekend campaign as long as you could make it back to base and land & refuel (respawn) and live to fight ther next mission... I think that COOPs & DFs are both prone to cheaters... but this community is not full of them at this point, and how we all collectively deal with the issue will largely determine how this whole thing pans out because it is an ongoing process and it could still go either way. I will place my faith in the men and women I know, rather than the cheaters I don't know... and continue to promote simming and this sim in particular at every opportunity...... others can do as they please.


To think that all this started because I asked a simple legitimate question...

BTW Urufu.. jujst for clarification.. my head in the sand comment was not towards you but towards those who are still talking about "all the FM, WEP & DM mods" that ae out there.

Some folks may think that some of these mods are lame.. I happen to think that most of them just make an already great sim better. In a way I think that perhaps it is better that the sim got hacked rather than Oleg opening it up. Had he opened it up officially he would have had to offer support for that too... and the tools probably would have been a lot easier to manage. As it is now between the folks who use the mods and the folks who make them there is a great disparity since everyone doesnt have the skill or time to make them and the guys that do make them seem to want to remain as true to 1Cs standards as the can... Which is not to say that some of the mods don't have issues... but the ones I have chosen to use are great... and they just make me appreciate the original product even more. All of us are grownup (Most of us anyway) .. even if we all are subject to occasional lapses into prepubescence, This sim will live on for some time, and frankly i think it would have lived on longer regardless.... but thanks to these mods I think it will live on even longer, and from the looks of things SoW will be so good that those who can or need to will move on, but just as this sim got it's new flyers in trickles and gushes over the years largely due to the harware requierements that even now some folks are just able to come up to... SoW will be the same. I will continue to fly and enjoy this sim for along time DCS & SoW or not.

The conflicts I pointed are not just between mods and unmodded flyers, but between different mod packs from different modding communities (mods that modify the code by using the same java classes with different modifications).

I certainly wont... no way will I participate to a system that has the unavoidable effect to split the community of players.
I'm not against mods (I did participate to modding, I helped with many ingame maps, when it was official and controlled), I'm against Chapels. Chapels are unavoidable when the modding isn't controlled by a central authority that decide what's official, do the necessary quality checks and decide to include (or not... which is what potentially bother most of the actual modders that wouldn't accept any control) the mods in the game.
With a non-controlled mod distribution, you can surelly get some good quality mods... but you can't have a unicity of the game (which is for me more important, in the online scope, than the individual quality of some components).
And... the only way to get a centralized management and control... is to have it done by the game dev... there's no alternative.

Rgr... I understand.. and you are right about that..



I can respect that .. I disagree but you of course are entitled to your opinion.

Whether you disagree or not, that doesn't make you right

And your point, it doesn't make him right either, or me, or you, this is why we have discussions, if we all thought the same way it'd be mighty boring.

So just why has this all started again?
Pretty much everything posted here is in the same thread from a year ago,with maybe a little less abuse (so far)
Most peoples opinions have changed,some have not.But other than that,it is all EXACTLY the same!
This will run for a hundred pages,get more and more abusive,and in the end everyone will be back where they started.
Pathetic.

Hi everyone, err.....I just remembered why I don't participate much in online discussions, particularly ones in which no consensus, or anything even approaching it will ever be reached. They almost inevitibly descend into petty name calling and childish playground **** slinging from otherwise intelligent grown Men who really should know better, and whilst sometimes it can be quite amusing, it gets old very quick. "And never the twain shall meet".

I've been playing IL-2 for 6 years, so hardly a newcomer. I have been reading the Ubi Forums for about the same. Bearcat, you are pretty much the voice of reason in my opinion, and make usually make a valid, cogent and articulate argument....In the case of mods no exception. As some guy from Minnesota once said, "The Times they are a changing", either roll with it or roll over, your choice. I respect the views of the naysayers, and see where they are coming from, but bottom line is you don't like them then don't use them. The prophesied "Online apocalypse" never happened. Is Nostradamus in the house? Maybe 2012? LMAO. I have two installs, one 4.08 Vanilla, and modded 4.09b1 beta. I play the former exclusively online CRT=2, mods for single player only. The mods as Bearcat rightly points out are in the VAST majority aesthetic and will not turn a bad pilot into an ace. They will however, enhance enjoyment of a title which despite its faults is the best WWII combat simulation there has ever been, to date. Whilst many are in fact rubbish, there are many which are a VAST improvement. Fact. Nothing lasts forever, every thing is in flux.

RE: Cheaters.....they will always be amongst us, bad apples are one of lifes constants and nothing will change in that regard. Call me an optimist or naive, but I truly believe that the OVERWHELMING majority of this community are decent and honourable people, who would never resort to such a low thing. While they of course exist, they remain a pathetic minority. In fact I KNOW it.

But there you go, my Ha'penny. On a lighter note.....all the best to everybody for the New Year, and I hope you all have a good one!!! :)

~S~ Take care people.

SaQSoN:: True true. http://i35.photobucket.com/albums/d1...s/banghead.gif Well you got me there. I can't argue that one.

JG52:: Not quite. The larger evolution of all the mega-threads over time on the various "official" forums (not mod forums) shows Oleg's customers gaining greater confidence.

Last year the rather mature FB/PF community at the Simhq actually shouted down the snotty behaving members that were attacking those interested in the hack mods. Interestingly, when Oleg was forced out of ubi.com (from lack of moderation), he went to the more mod-friendly Simhq community. Its interesting how it all works out as social behavior.

Think playground behavior with a few bullies among the kids, and the kids finally take down the bullies. The *only* difference is the consequences of snotty behavior are not realized like they are on the street or playground, so the snotty anti-mod behavior keeps going and going like Duracell Bunny, although it slowly winds down as some of the bullies finally stop bullying and enjoy their no-mod sim, or they go mod, or leave the sim, leaving fewer bullies behind.

Think about it. You run down the street calling large numbers of people "cheaters." You do this one time. You never do it again.

Bear (last page):: Wow. I must disagree, but realize I'm thinking of what "could have been" had Oleg opened the sim a long way back, when FB was still young, and so supporting mod tools would be a good way of expanding the sim and customer base while the sim was still young, while Oleg focused more on expanding his totally unbeatable game engine. Alot of people asked for just this "approved" modding ability years ago, but were harassed at ubi.com by the bullies. The result is the current popularity of the hack modding today which seems to have no Oleg support. You know...the Road Not Taken and all.

...so Oleg just got kicked to the curb instead, eh?

Oleg is probably losing less sleep over it than you are.
Seriously,go outside in the fresh air and take a deep breath.

Perhaps you could take your own advice?

Right? See that's the problem... You are missing the pont.. this snt about righnt or wrong... ... the bottom line is the mods are out there use them or don't... either way it is no sweat off my nuts... I use them.. I like them... and I refuse to pass judgment on anyone regardless to their stance. In that respect I have not moved one inch from where I stood when this all jumped off. Fort me this situation does not fall in the realm of right or wrong. Now if there had been a definitive statement from 1C perhaps it would be different.. but there wasnt. Oleg said he dosnt want anything that will allow cheating. I have not seen any of those mods.. but I had enough print screen jerks in IL2 1.20v to know that if people dont want to fly based on skill alone they wont.... You can sweat all this stuff if you want to. I am going to just continue to enjoy the sim.. and promote it wherever I can..


Uther this all started again (In this thread anyway) because I asked a simple and very legitimate question, considering that it has been over a year since the whole issue arose and enough time has passed to do more than just speculate on what might or could happen with the hacking of the sim, and since the the past year has not brought to fruition 95% of the gloom and doom worries concerning the mods, I was wondering if Oleg had made any statements on the subject since I hadn't visited here in a while and Oleg doesn't post at UBI anymore and this is the official 1C forum, I figured this was the place to come.

The reason I asked the question aside from my own curiosity, considering how this first year has gone (Which is absolutely great IMO.... no UFOs, no laser cannon, no rampant cheating) was because when I did decide to pop back in here I saw a post from a new member, someone who joined this forum in July of 08, asked a question about the mods and all this started up again with that. As I said 15 months ago.. this issue will not go away.... as new people come to this great sim and discover the mods they won't know about the issues and I am certain that most of them will not have issues with them since they are coming from other sims or other venues. Most of the anti mod purists were already in IL2.. partly because it was an unmodded sim and based on past experiences with modded sims that was part of the draw here, I know it was for me, but this has not been unlike any experience with mods I have seen in a sim. The first week on the MSN Zone for me I ran into several people who flew planes that could not be caught, had guns that couldhit you from 15+ miles out and could take a whole load and not even fly differently... It has been a year of mods in this sim and I have yet to see anything that I could legitimately ascribe to something other than lag or pilot error...

so hence my question.

The result was this.... but that still is a legitimate question.


Thank you and I couldnt have said it better.



Lexx.... where do you get your information from? FYI SimHQ relaxed it's stance on mods after UBI did. Oleg wa scarce at UBIO long before the mod issue even broke into the mainstream. LONG BEFORE.

Yet you can't justify pushing the developer to one side... still ;)

Man.... hush up... You don't know what you are talking about.

What makes you think that because I use mods I have pushed the developer aside? I bought several copies of 46 in 2008 alone... How many did you buy? Developer support is more than just lip service. If you have given more than that then good on you, but you are in absolutely no position whatsoever to pass judgment on anything I have done in this sim as far as supporting 1C.

You don't know what you are talking about.

I have supported this sim and it's development team from day one and will continue to do so as long as they are putting out products of this quality.

Yough Bear, I was not referring to the "official" Simhq stance, but the "in the street" community stance, as Simhq members didn't buckle under from the anti-mod bullying which was allowed to happen by the Simhq moderators. I think for two reasons....(1) the "street" Simhq community has a higher proportion of Offline players, and (2) is a higher form of life in general -- lacking a better term -- and they generally found refuge there from the Romper Room at ubi.com.

Failure to moderate snotty behavior forced Oleg out of ubi.com, even if that behavior was not related to modding. The ubi.com forum was left unmoderated since the start, at least back as far as the Trim Wars and RBJhttp://i35.photobucket.com/albums/d1...mileys/RBJ.gif and all the snotty insults against customers asking Oleg for functional trim controls. You remember...these customers were accused of; take a guess...

...wanting to cheat online.

That basic snotty behavior in general is why Oleg found a new home in the somewhat more polite, and more Offline oriented, and more hack-mod friendly, Simhq community. Strange but true. Life works that way sometimes.

and Oleg told you this no doubt..

If you recall Oleg began to get scarce shortly after the whole PF debacle...

He finally left for good in what, 2007? And he went to the more mod friendly Simhq for his English language forum until he founded the Yellow Wallpaper Site.

I'll try again: The snotty behavior is not restricted to "mod" issues. I'm sure there was much ubi.com snot dripping after PF, after everything actually, and about things other than modding.

Didn't Oleg not really care much for the PF addon? Heard that he didn't really want to do it as his interest was more for the eastern front but was kind of pushed in way as it was seen more of a business move?

Flyingbullseye

Seems so. Its a shame too cos Pacific is kinda a semi-forgotten war, and when you sit on carrier deck, you can see the sim engine is *great* for Pacific ops. Many have noted the strange similarities between Pearl Harbour and Barbarossa -- both surprises or...were they?

Remember the legal issues with PF.. why we couldn't get an official Avenger... ?

I think that Oleg's departure from UBI had more to do with business than the folks at UBI even if that may have played some role, but I dont think he was "run off" . The man has a life.. don't forget he had a kid.. who should be what.. @ 4 or 5 now? Then there were the accidents... I think Oleg has pretty thick skin... most guys who can do what he did with this sim do. You don't come up with a product like this being a thin skinned wuss.. He took on M.S. and smacked them like Tyson in his prime on a 5 ft golddigger... and at the time... MS was more like Tyson and he was more like the golddigger as fart as size goes... LOL... .

Bearcat:: uh...I'll go with that from now on. That makes *alot* of sense.

I remember those doubled up accidents. I always thought of that when I read this...

That was a neat plane. What developer will be the first?

Where did I say, IL-2 by itself is perfect? It's full of small, sometimes almost unnoticeable, yet really lame errors. And there are a few even large and quite noticeable lame errors too. ;)

And some mods do contain interesting ideas, or steps into the right direction. Yet, none of them is complete in the technical way, or even worse - fixes few errors and ads a lots of new ones. While most of them, like most map retexturing, or frankedick planes aren't even worth mentioning. That is why all mods, so far, are lame - that's how I see it. And I don't see a reason of not saying about it.

May be, we are still to see something really nice, like, say, Fokker D.XXI model, or the Checkh planes, which, BTW, were made with help from MG by people, who were trained by MG or affiliates. We'll see.

So, take your glasses off, what's the problem? ;)

Thanks. :cool: ;)

You'll make me a great favor, if you point me to where did I do that. Thanks. ;)

I use some Frankenplane methods in StrikeFighters, but generally for myself only. SF and FB/PF are *very* lite sims in air warfare simulation, so I'm not worried about techie 3D model details that these games' air warfare programming and features fail to match.


SaQSoN:: That's the idea, and how it works on the street. They don't have official support, so hold back the gamer insults and share your knowledge. http://i35.photobucket.com/albums/d1...eys/thumbs.gif

I do not insult gamers, unless, or more, then they try to insult me. If you think otherwise, point me where I did it, please.

As for sharing my knowledge about the game mechanics and such - I am not able to do so for an obvious reason.

And regarding the official mods support. Though, it was said many times before, I'll repeat it once again:

It is NOT possible to make IL-2 modding open, while preserving online game integrity and avoiding Oleg's intellectual property violation by mods distribution, without seriously rebuilding the game engine structure.
The later IS possible, but costs labor. Labor costs money. In the case of IL-2, it would pure waste of them in a business (or any other, including common) sense.

So, why some of you still think, Oleg should do this?

That makes good sense Saqs. Too late now to open the sim. I'd rather see Oleg open the sim years ago instead of the hack.

Understood. Then the modders can only do the best they can without official help.

The task of rebuilding the game engine in the way, I described above, is virtually equal to creating a new game engine from scratch.
Looking at things realistically, doing this was not an option for Oleg's team from the very beginning (original IL-2 release).

They did their best to support user's creativity by adding 3rd party models into the game for free themselves. But now, it's over, as every thing in this world ends, sooner, or later.

While doing so, they should understand and remember, that when distributing their "mods", they, in the most cases, redistribute a part of original game without permission of it's original author. Which, by all international and most national laws is a violation of Oleg's intellectual property, no matter what the modders may think, or say about it.

Obviously, it is doubtful, that anyone would be prosecuted for this, but in my opinion, distribution of mods (in the said above regard) means showing disrespect to Oleg, his team and their work. So, I don't see any reason, why Oleg, or anyone from his team should show respect to the modders. Particularly, when their work is way far from quality standards, we choose for ourselves. ;)

This for me is the biggest reason why I dislike the whole mod issue. It is stealing, and is a show of total disrespect for Oleg and his crew. It's like he has to watch people with dull scalpel's, doing surgery on his child

lol yeah. on the street. on the street you can aslo buy crack cocaine..but hey...to each there own.

not for me thanks.

Well I guess that says it all... except justification of pushing the developer to one side...

"I bought many copies", so does that mean you now own the rights to il2?

Sorry bud but when the come back is "Hush, man" and "you don't know what you are talking about", it only indicates you know you are wrong in your stance.

:-?

I also fear for this community to become divided, not only "vanilla" vs "Mods/hACKs"
but als Macks vs different Macks.
But what i also wanted to say is: The reason for all this is that the developer doesn´t develop anymore for IL2.
If there would have been still support to remove the kinks and add missing planes by OM or someone named by him, i mean offically, as a pay-add-on so the workers could be paid, we wouldn´t be in the situation we are right now.
Maybe someone, who has OM´s ear, could indicate to him to Quality-control the Macks and sell the packet, if the Builders at i.e. AAA agree, as a pay-add-on where the price shoul be affordable as only the QC must be paid for.
That would be good for the community and good PR for OM and his future projects (that we buy anyway)
My 2 cents

Thanks for your input, SaQSoN.

Do you think, the developers had no serious reason for dropping IL-2 support?

You'd be surprised, how few people would actually buy such addon and how expensive it would be in development. Sorry, but that not going to work. No add-on for IL-2 (except for some mission/campaign packs, may be) can be profitable at the moment.

IL-2 is dead as a commercial enterprise. Get on with that. :(

Yeah, something about a vague BOB vaporware supposedly coming out at about the same time as Duke Nukem Forever.. :rolleyes:

Which is why the modders took over, where Oleg et al had left off, with massive holes in the IL2 content.. Get over that.