Undead only?
 

I was wondering if anyone's tried, or has an opinion on, going entirely undead for their army.

It seems like there isn't nearly as good a selection of troops as there is for the "living" troops.

I've also found out that undead troops seem to be inferior to living ones, however you have to take into account that you can pick the skill "Dark Commander" (that was it's name right?) for extra bonuses for undeads, you can get the corpse bride and I think there are even some items that offer some exclusive bonuses to undeads.

All in all, I might go for the undead if I found some nice undead artifacts (can't remember/don't know if there are any good ones tho) and was a warrior. Dark Commander might be too expensive for other classes seeing as I always try to max out onslaught and tactics early on.

I've been trying this out the last few days... Have the Cloak of Shadows and the ring set bonus that gives vampires some extra something... Ultimately though, I didn't like it much, and went back to my 4 archers and 1 melee setup... (Ale + Scope set, Elves, Hunters, Bowmen, and Cannoneers, and I swap between Knights and Horsemen for the 5th slot).. I'm still working to find a way for the elves to work well with the dwarven cannoneers, but it's only -1 to morale so I can live with it...

Bone Dragons suck ass compared to the other dragons, the Black Knights don't have any special skills (Circle Attack, or even Running would be nice), Skeletal Archers seem to always get targeted first and die damned fast... Necromancers are good, but with this army I found myself making them wait a lot because I didn't want to do aoe dmg to my troops... On top of all that, I can't use spells like Bless on them (wasting my lvl 3 mass Bless ftl)...

Not really undead only but I think this time I have best mix of early units I have found. My army is currently cursed ghosts, skeleton archers, royal snakes, inquisitors and evil beholders. None takes moral hits from undeads.

Skeleton archers seem better than bowmen. Specially since enemy seems to like shooting my beholders instead of skellies so their hp doesn't matter.

Cursed ghosts got nice speed and can suck life out of enemies to heal. I haven't had them long yet so not really sure how well they will do.

Royal snakes are my absolute favorite starting units. Their no retaliation ability is just unbelievably good.

Inquisitors are great for occasional resurrect and making rage.

And evil beholders do great damage and I just love their mind control. Interesting thing I noticed is that evil beholders are archers so I could give them precision. Of course I was lucky to find evil beholders from swamp.

I played some with cursed ghosts and they seem really nice. Their ability can hit multiple targets next to them. And it is useful even against single one since it pushes enemy back while doing damage. That way it can't retaliate.

My initial stack of 10 has quickly grown to 20 due it's ability to steal souls. Only problem is that stack goes over leadership limit so I have started to keep one less ghost than leadership allows and keep surplus in reserve in case I lose some.

But best thing I found out was when I remembered that swamp witch was selling sacrifice spell. I can actually sacrifice cursed ghosts. They keep building up for free it seems good recipe for keeping up stack of some more rare troops. I was thinking of trying ents which two were sold but they really hate undeads in same army so it won't work unless I get tolerance.

hehe in the original king's bounty I had an unfortunate death when the ghosts killed a stack of peasants and the number of ghosts was so high over my leadership total that they went out of control and killed my entire army.

After bit more playing skeleton archers are real bad when enemy shoots them. They die like flies.

I wish I had vampires available somewhere so I could test those out. :)

I found vampires and tested them a bit. I wasn't very impressed. They only regain lives when in bat form. And if I understood it right they only resurrect ones that died in battle while ghosts go above what they had in start.

At the moment my army is cursed ghosts, inquisitors, shamans, evil beholders and griffins. In pirate island in most fights I build up my cursed ghost stack and sacrifice it every few battles to build up other stacks.

I really love cursed ghosts. They are first melee which can fight against melee stack or even two for several rounds and my stack just grows. :)

Some units may seem weak, but what matters is if you can do a good combo.

Fo instance in early game, I had the Crown of Thorns.
With this artifact, the thorns inflict + 100 % damage, which is huge !
If you add the artificat that double the attack of archer, this increase further damage.
Finally you cast the Cloat Armor on them to protect them sicne they have very low hp

Actually I think that unded archers are one of the best range units in the game

Sorry for repeating myself, but undead archers are not good alone.

They rock only if you can make a combo, like Max Undead Commander + boost X 2 attack of archer.

They are good if you have way to get more. Their damage is great but once something decides to shoot them back they die very fast. In my game there has been only couple places selling them and not enough in either place. Might try them again now that I am using cursed ghosts. I pretty much have to sacrifice them at times since they tend to go over leadership limit in middle of battle. And since skelly archers got really low hp I think sacrifice would be very effective.

They can raise only the dead troops which died in the actual round, on bat OR vampire form, that doesn't matter. So, if two or more enemies hit the vampires, you'll lost a lot of them, because they're quite weak and they won't retaliate more than once.
Units with the "no retaliation" skill are a pain for them.

to keep enemies from shooting your skelly archers use the distortion spell, target. All units are forced to attack the unit u designate. At level 3 it costs only 12 mana, lasts 4 turns, and works and creatures level 1 - 4. Unfortunate level 5 ranged such as cyclops can still attack them so you have to find a way to eliminate them first.

Evidently you haven't even tried the Black Knights because they in fact do have the ability Running. Not to mention their armorer ability and physical resistance along with their ability to get a bonus to damage and chance to crit up to a max bonus of +15 to damage and +15% to crit when hit. Furthermore, if you have undead they give +1 morale bonus to all undead units. All in all, the best tanking unit out there. And they are undead meaning you don't have to worry about the annoying Hypnotize spell being used against you or doom. So, I would have to disagree with your assessment of the Black Knight.

People shouldn't underestimate the Bone Dragon. Their damage is weak but their Poison Cloud ability is very powerful. They're also fast and durable.

You can use the Reaper's Time Back ability to resurrect Skeleton Archers.

Necromancers are just great, and it's not just their initiative and their area damage. Their Plague ability reduces the attack, defense, and hit points of all living creatures by 15%. Their Raise Undead ability works on any dead stack. I often use it to raise dead enemy stacks.

and they're quite tough though ;)

Someone said that that Vamps can be damaged hardly when more units attack them :
Well, you just move your vamps in the most nearest hexagon to attract all attacks - but you leave him one move point and press WAIT - if you defence is nice - no matter ho much damage you get - you can re-suck it back.

I play with UNDEAD in majority (at least 3 of five, mostly 4 of five) and I am totally happy about that.
Not that it is the best army overall - but it is the best army for lazy players (as I am) with huge megalomancy and egocentrism (you need to win no matter what)... luckily I am no perfectionist :)

Why this is so great for lazy players? - Instead of opening magic book and shoot crazy spells like sheep, ressurect, god armor... you only use you normal attack instead of ressurection (steal life)

I don't use necromancer, so I have only Hand-to-hand army (+ abilities) what is handy - you don't need to create crazy strategies how to preserve your shooters (who are always targeted by enemy magick/shooters/abilities)
This army is imune agains mind spells :)

Using the Zombie Girl you get +1 INIT, +1 Speed (quite handy) + Undead Commander (additional INIT)

your whole army becomes TANK and Storming army.
Hugest problem : no fire resistance
Hugest problem #2: fighting other undead army sucks : no live stealing possible

using Ghosts correctly (both types) can help you through 50% of the game (ends be usefull in undead country) why? You can raise up to 150% of your max Leadership each fight (yes, above 100% you lose control, still they will not attack you, but randomly attack the enemy) So at the end of the combat move some of the ghosts to the backup slot (leave yourself 80~90%)

You want use undead army but you are afraid the UNDEAD LANDs? : put some undead away and hire black/red dragons... or thorn kings... or treants... (dragons because they do huge area fire damage - hiting the most weaker point of undead - they are mobs and are fire vulnerable)

But in Hell is the undead army the best choice :) (even if I take in account that hell heroes use armageddon spell)

Basically most of my battles looked like:
Whoaau! We start again first... look at those puny black dragons...haha, only 25 of them :)..
Dark Commander : "Hey red vamps - don't screw it, transform and be nice living target...hush hush!"
Vamps: " oki doki sir.."
Dark Com: "it's siryessir soldier!!!"
Vamps: "Sir, yes sir!"
DC: "fine, now move"
--- rest of the army awaits when vamp bats are getting all the damage from dragons, shamans, shooters or casters ---
Bone Dragon :" Hrrr... Bah! they managed to kill 20% of our bats... hay boss, it is not much... what about increasing our ranks by sacrificing some of the damn vamps... huh?"
me: " fine... there you go"
-- sacrifice : damaged red vamp bats, 1 bone dragon risen --
Vamp bats suck blood from black dragons with nasty sound of spilled and swallowed blood...
-- new round --
Vamps attack treants (now they have 100% units back again and battle is going to end soon, it is second round anyway)
Bone Dragons fly in the middle of the crowd and poison them - the weaker units die.
last 3 balck dragons try to kill my 19 (sorry, 20) bone dragons... do puny damage and die from counter attack
blue vamp bats finish one of the weaker enemies
Blue Vamps: " Hay commander, don't be a wuss pink sissy and get to kill some o em!.. See? even the damn living emerald dragons fly to finish them and give some mana to our master!:
Dark Commander : " Shut up asshole or you will end before war court and I will persue our master that necromancers are better than you looser blue bats"
Emerald Dragon : " Master, Master, pleaase take my offer of mana... here, mana for free, even more mana... liky likye... just don't let me sleep with that darn bone dragons in the same tent again... "
me: " shut up emerald wuss - you can't be ressurected, nor repeplenished by sacrificy... you walk on thin ice... you know I am to lazy to reload the game if you diy... and gimme more mana, buster!"
Combat won... loses : 0 , gainings : 1 bone dragon

:D:D I enjoyed your post very much :P so you're using vampires, ancient vampires, bone dragons and emerald green dragons? what about fifth unit?

and the most important thing, did this army well through Haas Labyrinth? coz my current setting sucks against hero dragons using only 5lvl units :/

My fifth unit is Dark Commander (aka Black Knight)
slow unit but his morale bonus to my undead units is the bonus I like.

Yep - this was my final combination - I had red vamps, red bats, blue vamps, bone dragons, dark knights - but as I am lazy to pay attention, I used to transform accidentally red vamps into red bats - both units of red bats gone FRENZY (bad thing) - so in the labyrinth I changed the red vamps with green dragons.

Note : the change was not because I had critical problems - because there is always at least one stack in enemy army that I used for blood sucking, the reason I removed red vamps was to avoid accidents (see above) and I find that green dragons came handy - I could use sacrifice more often in one combat (it saves time - when you make level and your leadership rises - you don't need to return and buy new units - you replenish them with sacrifice used on one or other vamps)

Note on sacrifice:
sacrifice does not impact the blood sucking "mas" unit number:
example:
you start battle with 140 red bats
you use sacrifice on blue bats (kill cca 10), blue bats hit living unit and replesnish the lost 10 units easily, but you gand +5 red bats (now you have 140)
BUT (not it comes) if your red bats are hit and killed - you will replenish by STEAL LIFE skill only up to 140, not 145 as I would await)
Also as I mentioned - sacrifice can't be used on replenishing green dragons - so you rather buy out all of them into your back up slot - and replenish them from this back up slot (but don't tell them that there are enough for replenishment - because these lazy green bums would not care of dying, bah.)

NOTE 2: this combination is not the best if you want go for 0-loss policy as the final battle is followed by armageddon (weakness of undead) and many dragons... Still I have tactics that could work - keep one stack of red bats (or red vamps - if you are not lucky enough to get red bats) - plase them on the best possible hexagon of the battlefield (actually I believe any is good, but if your defence is not so nice as mine - 25, you may consider moving to margin line of the field - so fewer enemies may attack you).
Cased gloth's armor (as the armageddon goes first), and cast some protective spells on them (sad that KB is missing fire resistance spell :) ), using some luck and the ultimate blood sucking skill - you may end w/o loses.
Did I mention I had equipped two dragon slayer swords (lucky me - by this I could replenish more vamps than I lost in normal battle - but the armageddon was the BLEH of the last battle) - w/o high defence/attack the blood sucking ability is not so great (as you may lose more units - the fewer units deliver less damage - you won't be able to replenish back to original number of your vamps)
That's why warrior goes better for this tactic than mage ... (palladin is nor best, nor worst - surprise surprise)

I failed to understand, what are red bats? Isn't red bats and elder (red) vampires same? Did i missed something? I know that red bats are count as different units but how you make it?

OK, I see that you haven't had the luck to find red bats.

Red bats = Ancient Vampire BATS

As you know - you can hire vampires (blue), ancient vampires (red)
Both these units can be "transformed" using thei special ability into bats (who can suck blood)
Now we are neer the point... just read:
This ability works only in combat - hence you will always see normal vampires in your slots - and always start the combat with normal vampires
Nearly there...

When lucky enough - you can find in shops the Vampire bats or Ancient Vampire bats for hire - so they will appear in your slots in form of bats also each combat will start with them in form of bats (of course you can still transorm them into normal vampires/ ancient vampires)

This was exactly what caused my units to go FRENZY - as I had one full stack of ancient vampires and one full stack of ancient vampire bats - when I accidentally transformed the ancient vampires into bats - the game realized I have 200% of same unit - and both these stacks went FRENZY... (stupid me - I coldn't remember that I can only transform the normal Vampires, when I have red bats already - that's why I swapped the ancient vampires with green dragons)

If you are not lucky enough to find bats, of course you should use vampires/ ancient vampires (normal vampires are weaker, but hey! they still suck blood!)

I see. Isn't better to swap elder vampire in your army with necromancers? I know Emerald Dragons are awesome but for undeads only army? What do you think?

I'm using an Undead only army (vamp, ancient vamp, black knight, necro, bone D.) and it's doing very good vs anything living. Like Gatts said, you just let the vampire (in bat form) do everything because you won't loose any. Necromancers are really useful. They have 10 init with rina zombie and dark commander, can magic shackle a lvl 5 unit if you want, spawn undead stacks out of corpse 3 times and plague everything (reduce hp, att, def by a %). Your undead troops get it, are not affected, but can spread it on other stacks when it wears off.

So ultimate would be something like blue and red vampires, necromancers, black knights, bone dragons? Maybe swap bone with archers?

This is my third game, my first as paladin, and I have been doing that since I cleansed the swamps and the graveyard. It's effectiveness, combined with the gold from the swamp makes the rest of Darion and the islands of freedom a child's play, at least on normal. Actually I have a problem with keeping the cursed ghosts in controllable numbers! :rolleyes:

However, I have inquisitors and berserkers in reserve and I sometimes swap them in, so I guess I'm not a true undead-player. ;)

Inquisitors resurrecting berserkers is quite good combination, but do not worry of not being pure "undead player" - in this type of game it is not easy to keep undead only units, but being prone for undead is the point here... and it looks you are.

Smash: I tried bone archers a lot-> would never go for them later in the game instead of dragons... (only if call of necromancer would work like resurrection) because keeping them in numbers is hell difficult... but bone dragons can easy use hit-n-run tactics which is much more effective in any kind of battle

Rinah - keeping ghosts in numbers on normal is not that bad if you are ready to spent your mana on cutting them down : than cast gloth's armor on them (they can't move, do not counter attack - so they do not steal souls) Normal allows you to win combat even if your ghosts are above numbers - then just disband the rest, or place it in spare slot (back up reserve slot)
BTW - just today my boss from Sweden moved to my country (guess which country it is)... and I would not wonder if his wife is catholic... and she is nice... so why the "beware" ?

I have noticed that too. I brought them from the necropolis in the swamps after expelling it's former owner. Otherwise, berserkers trend to die down to quickly because of their... stupidity, I would say. :-P

I always liked the human/undead combination. My choice of wife (guess who) is an advantage here. (how could I not choose her when we share the same name? almost... :rolleyes:)

Thank you for the advice. :) Yes, this is my problem, even if I reduce their numbers from 107 to 70, they still trend to grow to large on the battlefield only to end up doing stupid things like retreating from 10 bowmen or so. It's not much of a problem here on the Islands of Freedom where everything is kind of easy, but it means that I can't relay on them in a difficult battle. I try to be more restrictive now. ;)

:P It was a joke on my boyfriend's behalf. He has been making quite a name of himself on the internet, you haven't seen him around here? He is almost always using his name and his favorite behavior "Zealous Zeth". He's also playing King's bounty, he's a lot better than I am, although I think he's starting to get bored by now, since he's always playing as paladin. :-P

What country? Norway? Russia? :confused: I'm sorry, my sense of humor is dying after a hard day's work.:rolleyes:

For the ghosts I would like to add:
after combat it is handy to delete / disband more of your ghosts than advised (let's say your limit is 100 ghosts, you have 120 ghosts... delete/ disband 30 of them... so you would have only 90 -> this will give you one additional round of control in most of battle, is some you can control them even longer... as ghosts ability to suck soul is much less powerful as vampire ability to suck blood)

In addition I used strategy of not-attacking - meaning I have moved ghosts in front of enemy units to attract or strikes/shoot attacks (to protect my backup units / weaker units) -> where you may decide if you DEFEND the ghosts (press space/D) or leave them one action point free and wait them (W) -> I let them wait if the enemy is too strong (so my 90 ghosts get 8 killed by first enemy and suck back 12.. .but are hit again by four other enemies and are reduced to 50 only... now I can freely use them and exploit their stealing soul ability -> as now I really DESIRE that my ghosts will grow back to 90/100 units... weaker the enemy is, more ghosts I get... )

Also combine ghosts with magic spring and Iron skin.
If you have many of them - move them in near enemy with fire or magic attack.

But basically when I had only 90% of ghosts in my active stack - I was able to hit twice (one counterattack + one attack) before they went frenzy/crazy... then I put gloth's armor on them, so they would stay near enemy archers.

But do not try to use ghosts on impossible:
They either raise above 100% of your leadership and will start directly hitting your own units

Or they would die too fast :) (even as they have 50% phy resistance, on impossible are inquisitors/ priests / and many fire damage dealing units quite strong - where the HP of ghosts will be quite fragile -> low compared to their leadership)

Where ??? ='(
 

Hellooooo (;

Hmm i can found necros and dark knights in the swamp ??

My troop is begining to fall, because there is no place to i train,

in the islands of freedon, the enemies are so strong, and i are lvl 8 warrior...

What is happening ? Im doing something wrong with my warrior

i hope that someone can help me

thanks =]

Chup1n, you can always return from Feedom Islands back to Darion - Where is Greewort, Arlania, Marschan Swamps with many quests and dungeons which will help you to get to higher level and get better items very easily. I strongly advise that.

BTW- What Undead units you can hire is totally RANDOM - once vamps, then zombies, then ghosts... it depends all on luck :)
But you can't hire necromancers nor Dark Knights in Marshan swamps, maybe in Taron Mines (very rarely) in Elven Lands (in underground - always) in Demonia (very often and very bride variety of undead) and in the last location... no matter what it is called - you will know when you are there (don't want to spoil the game totally for ya)

;D
 

Thanks man,

it's because I am in the beginning of the game...my max skeletons are...283 i think

Hmm, Will take much time to i reach these places...

Sorry, my English is Horrible ;D

1. The first possible place to find Black Knights is the seaside tavern where you pick up the quest to retrieve a dragon fang. Once you finish his quest, there is one random level 4 creatures available for hire. The number of hirelings is rather limited though and since it is random, there is no guarantee you will definitely find Black Knights.

2. On Freedom Island, there is a vendor called Moon Ghost. It sells random undead units. Never find anything beyond level 3 though, not even Vampire.

3. In Arden Peaks, the Dwarven Necromancer sells undead units. The best I find is Ancient Vampires.

4. In Demonis, the black tower on the upper floating platform sells undead units. The only fixed unit is Necromancer. 10 out of 10 times they are available for sale. The other slots are random.

5. All Haunted ships sell undead units. Nothing impressive for those in Darion/Freedom Islands.

6. Killed the Furious Paladin by destroying all 12 Statues in Marshan Swamp. He will then sell undead units instead of human one. Nothing impressive though most of the time.

O.O
 

Oh man, i have nothng to say guy

U're helped me alot man

Thanks very much !!:grin::grin::grin:

Hello everybody.

I'm reading quite a while and just registered to make my first post in this forum.

So, I like to play story-like. At the moment I play as a mage, relying heavily on my spells and totally different troops. Next, I think I will try a Paladin with elven-only army. Then, I really like to play as a warrior with only undeads. With Rina (?) and Dark Commander I think it can be quiet a good force.

So, I really appreciated the post by Gatts. I learned a lot of interesting new tactics. All I need now I more time to play King's Bounty, because my better half often keeps me from loosing myself in it. :rolleyes: :grin:

I believe I have posted all I know about Undead tactics options... but here is small recap:

1.) Take Rina - let her in zombie form
2.) watch carefully for all artefacts that boosts undead - keep them, use them
3.) Try to sneak into Demonis ASAP - there are mostly the best undead units for purchase
4.) when already in demonis and you can't decide whom to take:
a) ancient vampires (bats) -> if you are lucky to get these, consider them as total MUST... you can even stack them in your backup slots (to not have to return to get them if you don't get sacrifice)
b) Dragons - great for hit'n'run tactics + can effectively collect battle chests (not fearing to be easily killed)
c) Any other vampires (if you can't get vampires (bats) take normal ones - you cans till transform them in battle)
d and e are optional -> you can go for skel archers if you don't mind losing some (if you don't go for 0-loss policy), necromancers (deal less damage, and can damage your own units, unless you don't mod them to "friendly fire 0" or my good old undead commander -> boosts morale
Keep in mind that one of your units may be green dragon later on, so prepare one of your units to be kicked out, early heads-up email in their mailbox will do
5.) Do not count too much on vampire steal life ability -> many units do not have "blood", have "no retaliation" ability, and your vamps can hit only once per round (do not have "furious" ability of demon or griffin...) also their damage is not as huge as the damage they can take :) They are nice tanks, but still deserve some planning of you, dear general :)
6.) early on use ghosts, but watch out, especially on higher game diff. for over-running the max leadership cap, nasty nasty
7.) do not hesitate to take zombies in your army - they can take a lot of hits and deliver huge amount of damage as well, and have axes -> some artefacts work for them just better
9.) There is dwarven artefact that says "+30% damage from cold weapons" and it works for vampires as well :) could be handy information
10.) If you feel sad that Rina has no weapon slots - download my MOD... you will find it in MOD section... somewhere :)
11.) watch out when fighting enemy undeads, prepare strategy more carefully or replace your units for the undead fights (dragons can do + ents, plants... dragons deliver huge fire damage - bad for deadies, ents and plants do not have blood - enemy ghosts/vamps won't ressurect/replenish :) )

Thanks alot, Gatts.

This will proof really helpful. Can't await to get started. :grin: I will probably play the warrior first, then the Paladin.

I'm doing an undead-only challenge right now. It was tough at the start, but now I have ancient vamps, bone dragons, necromancers, cursed ghosts, and skele archers. Combined with dark commander this setup really tears up most enemies.

just checking. what are the ways to replenish skeleton archers during combat?

is it only necromancer can resz them?

I pretty much use sacrifice to build up/replenish my skeleton archer stacks.

This means either

1. Carrying a huge stack of disposable units in your reserve.
2. Lucking out and finding hypnotize.
3. Using troops with hypnotize effects (eg. demonesses and dryads).
4. Have a single high hp unit (giant, dragon) and use level 1 sacrifice to gain troops without losses.

I tend to go with 3 and 4 but YMMV.

I can't say enough good things about skeleton archers + isharra's whip + poison dagger (if you can find it). Throw dragon arrows on them and watch the slaughter. They are the primary reason I rush to tolerance (the other undead troops are not that great on harder difficulties.)

actually only sacrifice can replenish undead -> spell necro call, as well the ability of necromancer works but only if your whole stack has died, and if your stack was bigger then the HP strength of your spell or necromancers ability, the difference is again restockable by sacrifice. Sad that good old ANIMATE DEAD is missing :(

You keep mentioning that out of control stacks don't hit your own forces unless playing on impossible.

When using sacrifice in my previous game, if I exceeded my leadership with a stack they would hit my own forces without remorse. Am I missing something?

Seoman,

I am not certain, but I plan to test this out in a future game, but I think there is a point above your leadership where they are "out of control" like berserkers are "always out of control", and then there is a point above that one in which they are "rebelious" and they attack your units as well.

perhaps "out of control" is 1-10% above leadership and 10%+ is rebelious; I don't know... perhaps someone can confirm this?

I am planning on making an undead army my next game as a warrior and I am sure it will be an issue; hopefully one I can manage.

After reaching 150% of leadership limit unit turns hostile.
I play a lot with ghosts and it happened few times (actually i play ONLY with undead, mage lvl 27, and it's been very effective [i love vampires])

thanks