Beating a dead horse
 

Well, after over 2 years of waiting on BOB SOW I'm thinking we are beating a dead horse.

http://www.albertlea.com/iB_html/non.../deadhorse.gif

The 4.09 Patch has never been completed.

The Birds of Prey (Console game) appears to have 16 poly aircraft over a landscape that looks like what has been promised in SOW.

I'm not going to speculate or try to run anyone aground here.

Developing a really competent Combat flight simulator is a huge task compared to putting out a console game. Everything is done when the console game is released. The controller and software that drives the game is a done deal, and whatever limitations of the console hardware and software are fixed.

I can understand a departure from a Computer based CFS that has variable issues with graphics, sound, controllers, mission builders, etc. some darned complicated stuff.

I'm hopeful there will be an SOW. Oleg has always been such a super guy about keeping everyone up to speed, but I'm thinking he's off on something else and just keeping us going with an occassional posting.

IMO, I've had a great run with the IL2 series.

We haven't had one material thing promoted to us, but words and a few graphics over the past years.

Having been around for the Harpoon 4 debacle when after almost a year of been shown work in progress screen-shots Ubisoft cancelled the project I can well understand your sceptisim.
But unlike Harpoon 4, there would be plenty of third party developers prepared to jump into the breech so to speak if Ubisoft or even 1C pulled the plug.
But do the maths when SOW was announced way back when Vista and Direct X 10 were twinkles in Microsoft's eyes. They are here now.
Multi core CPU's and mega graphic's cards from both nvidia and ati have more than quadroupled what could be done back then.
So lets say the project was close to Alpha stage just before Vista and the Geforce 8 series popped up. Well that would have made everything done up til that point obsolete.
While this is no excuse for no updates it could be a valid reason for the sudden slow-down of info.
I agree Birds of Prey looks remarkabily like the footage released on the 1946 DVD and I still have not quite got my head around the explanations given for that.
But I am sure we will get something soon. Either a "Dear John" thanking us for our loyal support and wishing us luck with 4.09 beta or some real ingame footage that will blow our socks off. I am hoping for the later.

I'm not worried about Birds of Prey taking resources from Storm of War as BOP is developed by another developer. It should not affect the progress on Storm of War.
BUT the lack of communication and information on SOW:BOB is really disturbing.
If I understand things correctly here, the reason for NOT showing any real progress on this board is that UBI is the company that controls all information. If that is so, why has the little information we have got thus far been presented here and not over at UBI?
UBI has no usefull information on SOW:BOB at all.
The purpose of this board seems more and more diffuse. This is not a "SOW:BOB" site but an "IL-2"-site. Still there is nothing on this board related to IL-2 that has not been covered over at UBIzoo.
And as far as I can remember, I'm not even sure that UBI will be the publisher of SOW:BOB. Oleg hasn't posted at UBIzoo since may 2007, and Olegs ready room is removed. There may well be some good explenation for all this, but thus far I haven't got it into my head yet.
I'm not thinking SOW:BOB is a dead horse, but all this certainly seems odd.

Skarphol

The lack of communication and information is not just disturbing its indication that little or nothing is happening. If SOW is going to happen then i think it is a long way off. I also found the official answers we got regarding BOP difficult to believe.

nearmiss, the funny thing is, if you really ment what you just wrote, you wouldn't have posted it, as it is exactly what you posted you no longer want to do: Talking among ourselves.

So it's basically just another pointless thread, trying to provoke a reaction from the bada$$ developers.

And that you don't hope for a reaction or follow the thread, you can tell that to your socks.

Why do we even bother asking about SoW in here anyway,this is the IL2 forum.And for IL2 updates,the news is not here,its at AAA.
SM79
Typhoon
Mosquito XVI
Gloster Meteor
FW190 A3
etc

nearmiss is out on the fishing trip...that`s new :D

Yeah! Fishing has it's advantages ----

There will not be any SOW and any further Oleg combat sim. I think that the problems are:

- technical (hardware & software) changes,
- too advanced expectations and criticism from the community,
- publisher/distributor money&time pressure,
- other (as always).

That all, and maybe more, drove Oleg to the decision to give up.
I wish it is not true... :-(

Hubal, you are only speculating, like all the other hand wringing whiners here.

In short sir, you are clueless.

Be sure.

Well i would imagine that Hubal is letting us know is views on which you clearly disagree. However unless you have some updates or news regarding SOW then i fail to see how Hubal is anymore clueless than you are. Please feel free to enlighten me.

Well, Oleg is not one of those people who will stop development without letting community know, be sure. A lot of people speculating, perfectly normal thing to do. As far as SOW development goes, it`s still on, moving along, full steam ahead, all go no stop...what else is out there?

Anyone who has read the posts in these forums know that SOW team has been working full time on SOW since they stopped all work on IL-2, about a year ago. Most of the negative posters want the game as much as the rest of us and are just crying vapourware to elicit a response. Its still a good idea for the community to respond to these posts as it will let new people know that the game is still in production.

Oleg has stated they are still working hard on SOW.
Luthier stated they have some their SOW addon crew helping Oleg finish SOW,
Both have excellent credentials

A few posters who have nothing to do with the development and never developed a flight sim state its vapourware.

Who would you believe?

Actually it even goes beyond that, Chivas, as it was confirmed on this forum, that Olegs team is working more than full time on the project, according to some statement apparently on saturdays, too.

But if I realized one thing on this board, it's to not give a damn about the whiners. None of them really believes the project is abandoned. They're all just trying to provoke a strom in the fishbowl to get an official statement.

It's whining on high levels, nothing more, nothing less.

If they'd really mean it, they'd just forget about checking in more and more and that's it.

I can't believe the crap being splattered about here. Oleg has stopped developement!? Where has that been officially posted? Where's the proof? I think some people really need go back to chasing UFO's.

Until the big man says it himself, SoW will be published, end of story.

(quote)
I'll hang at the AAA for awhile, something is happening there now.


Just maybe, that is the reason for the long delayed release of SOW:-P

Rubbish.

i had a look again at the BoB preview addon cd that came with 1946 on the WE, i think the video was intended as an alpha stage "teaser" but it gives a good idea of the level of progress made at that time. the video was released at the end of 2006 iirc, and by all indications at that point their development team was still in full swing to try and get BoB out the door soon and they were making good progress. early screenshots of BoB work in progress were even posted as early as dec 2005 (see this thread for a good summary of all earlier screenshots posted on BoB work by olegs crew http://forums-de.ubi.com/eve/forums/...4/m/4641029783). we had further indications progress was still continuing in late 2006 that oleg was promoting BoB previews at a couple of aviation/game fairs (remember the old puma video interview with oleg).

after that there was a long long period of total silence, completely unexplained, and the removal of olegs room at ubi

in oct 2007 the !C il2 forum was opened, and on 10-15-2007 oleg showed signs of life again, and posted here on dec 21 2007 oleg posted at simhq and posted a url link pointing to this forum

we then once a month for 3 or 4 months get a few aircraft WIP screenshots and oleg answering some questions (great, news at last and signs it is still being worked on !). the answers given are however very general and indicate a lot of issues are still undecided and open ended, almost as you would have expected from a sim still in alpha stage, but this is now more then 2 years after we already had extensive alpha previews from his older interviews, and the "1946 cd addon video" previewing BoB. the screenshots posted in 2008 are also still only a few closups of WiP aircraft with generic blue backgrounds (yes nice looking aircarft, i aint complaining about them, why you'd want to be working on obscure italian aircraft in a way overdue BoB sim is another question).

then without reason again total silence from feb 2008 for 3 months and our active forum moderator disappears at the same time.

we then get sudden news from 3e party sources that il2 is about to be released for consoles, and the preview press release specifically mentions the BoB era, and shows BoB scenery that is very similar to olegs nov 2006 preview video. the sim also is very advanced and has a release date and preview video's and press reviews. predictably pandemonium breaks out in the main il2 forums and long term oleg supporters start jumping out of windows.

a couple of brief post from oleg then follow attempting to reassure some of the fans there is still a BoB pc sim in the works, but the only new screenshots posted at the same time to indicate "work is proceeding as usual" are again only a few WiP closeups from aircraft with blue background screens (indicating they are 3D models in a graphic editor program, not a near finished object flying in a 3D world), worse, those models arnt even WiP from olegs team himself but are made by another group working on their own sim project (yes, we'll all be happy with the new korean sim, dont get me wrong). in a worst case scenario, those same aircraft models could even be used for the console games and might have nothing to do with the pc project we are waiting for.

now again almost 3 months of total silence and no signs of life or "New constant BoB development "

forgive some of us for being slightly skeptical the pc project is proceeding at a normal pace and is still on track, or that some of us now doubt it will happen at all.

Words..., any evidences for progress (or just blue screens and 3D models)?

Everybody are tired, everybody want to fly new sim.
I wish Oleg all the best, but I am hopless in this case.
Just that. Sorry.

The worst thing is that probably many of the 3D models were design for this console bloody thing, not for PC sim. Maybe not at the begining, but later.
I think that the idea of SoW: BOB evolved to the console game becouse of many reasons. That is it.

Please make me change my mind, please.

Who knows? ;)

You know Zapatista,we have had our differences (;) ) but your post pretty much sums it up for me.

Me too, but hey we are just whiners.:)

Oleg doesn't post here any more because he gets the same reception that he used to get in ORR. Doesn't suprise me and I don't blame him.

Exactly! Some people have absolutely no idea about the money, time and manpower needed to make a computer game or how the developing and publishing industry works then they come to forums speaking like they do have some idea.

Even 2 years to develop a bespoke physics and graphics engine, associated developers tools and populating that with models and enviroments is extremely ambitious and takes a team in excess of 100 experianced staff. I can say that with some experiance.

Don't take this like I don't like you but do you read news posts or just fishing and rumour posts? The console game just uses some exisiting resources provided by Oleg and Co. Do you also know that the Xbox 360 and PC are pretty damn similar and even if 3D models were made for a 360 game it wouldn't mean they wouldn't be able to be used in a PC game or vice versa?

It does not matter for me.

I want clear and official information WHEN will it be published!
Can you answer? Convince me!

Show me the movie, show me the the printscreens, give me the sound of engine, give me alpha testing comments, show me ...

As Cuba Gooding Jr. - "Show me the money!!!" (Jerry Maguire).

I want to feel that it's coming!!! Nothing more.

Don't you guys have a real life? Jeez! :roll:

@ csThor

+1

I concur. Where else do you see people whining for what they want and feel they must have as though it is some sort of a God-given right?

I'm going to stick with the comforting old phrase, "no news is good news" and enjoy what I've got now - namely the best WW2 combat flight sim around.

What I'm not going to do is subscribe to some conspiracy theory that has no basis in hard facts.

B

OK enough silly stuff...I have an idea that might get lost in the depths of my meandering, but why doesn't someone start a nice dignified and democratic petition. We could start a petition in which we demonstrate how many of us would like to see regular visits from the development team. Wouldn't it be great to get regular little notes from Oleg, the modelers, de-buggers, artists, ect...(I know, I know...its been said)

It would be a lot more productive starting a petition then ranting, stomping around and storming off into the sunset... we might not get an official answer, and it might not do any good...but the numbers could make a solid statement.

Er you saw the DVD that came with Il2 46 right? You've seen the screen shots on this very forum right? You've read Olegs comments right?

Il2 Sturmovik is the best, but it is not a masterpiece.
It is not just graphics what do we expect.

But all expectations are a piece of s... if there is not any SoW any more.

"Now news is a bad news" - the media credo!

true, but admit, thers no such developer who cant find 5 mins to write ONE post about development in 2-3 months....and what about PR guy? 1C PR guy, is he there? he should find 5 mins to post something...theyr not serious if they dont have a PR guy...or whoever to post updates here...Oleg got us with IL2, yes....but we are "horny bride" and hes "lucky" that (for now) he dont have a real competition...

1:C's PR has been non extant for the last year in general. BoB is still progressing. I'd tell you more, but then CrazyIvan's SMERSH goons would have me...er...brought in.

In the meantime, finish that last level of COD4, buy a PS3 (I just got one and am having a blast with the silly thing), go to the beach and look at scantily clad women and wait.

How do you know that Oleg fails to post here because some people have made comments about the very poor communication from Oleg and crew, has he told you this or are you just perhaps making it up?

Once again... what we had with IL2 was truly unique, but you are forgetting most important part, such dialog between developers and community is only possible with participation and blessing from the publishers. No developer under obligations of the contract will step forward and start advertising his product... I am afraid this is the one part that is missing.

Other thoughts...IL2 took 4 years to develop, before initial release, maybe more then that.... I think it started in 1997 and saw the day light in 2001. SOW is by far more complex and advanced in all areas, things that use to take couple of weeks, now take several months...You cannot really compare the two. Bottom line is, Nobody in the know (and i said that before) ever gave you any concrete ETA for SOW. There were speculations and some rather silly anouncements, but nothing more. Oleg did say that they are trying to meet some dates, but he never said that he will. And once again, let the console game go already, has nothing to do with Maddox. 1c licensed out IL2 engine and other team completed it, yea Oleg tried it, gave them his opinion and that`s that. Why you folks keep bringing that up? How many times it needs to be said...those are not SOW objects, it is not MG work... i mean, come on!! :D

CrazyIvan, it's like going to church every Sunday. We need to hear you preach the good word and reassurances about SoW, even though we've heard it all before. ;)

I just dont want people to get ideas that everything died, Mango. I will ask for an update, no promises tho..

This reminds me of the lyrics of an old 10cc-song: "Communication is the problem to your answer.."
All of these more or less camouflaged whining-threads would be gone in a flash if Oleg or someone in the 'know' would drop by and post a few lines a little more often!
Luthiers post from Olegs home in early june was good enough for most of us.

But on the other hand, without the whining-threads this forum would be very inactive..


Skarphol

The only problem with idea is everyone including Oleg knows the outcome of the petition. We all want more updates! As Ivan, Oleg, and Luthier have said its more complicated than just popping in here a giving us an hour of their time. I'm sure there is more than one reason and none of them entail just wanting to piss us off.

Guys!
I am a little bit tired telling one same thing over and over again.
There is no content from SoW neither from Il-2 in Birds of Prey game.
NO. ANY. CONTENT.

Nothing will ever change Anton :D

This is good heads up Anton on what you'll see when you open your BOP site. You just need to pop in every few months to let the adults know that the develpment is progressing fine and ignore the rest of the rhetoric.

LoL...

I never thought that the lack up-dates was due to anyone wanting to piss anyone off... in fact I'm not really that upset about the lack of up-dates. Yes, I would love some more information on "BoB SoW" (like everyone) but I'm not freaking out...

The idea of a petition was just me trying to suggest a constructive direction for all the negative psychic energy that seems to be floating around in here... the idea of a petition seemed like a nice alternative to the modus operandi, of "getting everyone stirred up, excited, upset, or suicidal"...and then Oleg (or crazyivan1970_LOL) has to come in sooth all the ruffled feathers.

I thought it might be a little more impressive to see a list of 17 names (LOL) in a petition then it is to read the manifesto of a troll who wants to be known as the forum participant who's heart was broken by Oleg...

Guns and Roses.... Dead Horse

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zxGejqxN2WY

:cool:

Sorry Proton...I didn't mean to suggest you personally were upset....

Of cause he hasn't told me! Going by past experiance it doesn't take much to work it out though.

Ok so we have established that what you are saying is not fact. However what is fact is that the communication from Oleg and team is poor.

Depends how you look at it Tree. If there is something to communicate and we're not receiving the information then communication would be lacking or poor. Right now there's probably not a lot to show, display or explain to us that would make sense or be interesting in a forum (we won't even go into the whole publisher's rights malarky).


If we could see something I'd enjoy seeing the lighting effects like the ones displayed for KotS on the Fokker some months ago. Wouldn't it be great to see a canopy strut's shadow cross over the cockpit interior..... or how about the light reflecting on the metal parts of the Hurricaine, but be matted out by the wooden and canvas parts?


It'll come. Info may be slow (okay it IS slow) but we'll get more. I won't even attempt to prognosticate when.

Maybe communication between publishers and us is poor, eh? :)

Hmm interesting point.

that IS the point.

Looks like a dead horse to me...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JmPoBy5VLA4

Wait a minute...I'm sensing a theme here... :)

I never said it was fact. Lets call it circumstantial evidence. Your a member of Ubi Zoo right? Then you should agree?

I guess the lack of information on development could be relate to the way UBI soft has been shafted by its "Fans".

I was astounded by the level of piracy in other titles. I read an article about Assassins Creed. (http://www.atomicmpc.com.au/article.asp?CIID=119232). Apparently the PC version only sold 40,000 copies but a buggy 'leaked' was downloaded 700,000 times!!!!!!

I bought a copy of that game and am still playing my way through. Compared with the XBox version, the PC has a huge improvement in graphics.

Basically with statistics like that it's a miracle that PC versions of software can still be created. I know If I was UBISoft i'ld tell the lot of us PC gamers to get shafted and go for the big $$$ on the console games, or make us pay for hardware 'keys' and online verifcation every time we play! How about charging us a monthly fee like world of warcraft????

I agree 100% Skoshi.

Yeah, but on the other hand, I would have been perfectly happy to pay for a lot more IL-2 add-ons, especially if they featured new theatres (med, BOB etc.), and I'm sure I'm not alone in this. I think there was a lot more money-making potential in IL-2 than was ever exploited. Really, I think 1c probably only did a quarter of what Il-2 was capable of. And now it's all going to be done over at AAA without Ubi getting a penny.

One little problem with your theory Golf Pro. The IL2 game engine is outdated. No matter how good (or sometimes how bad) the stuff from the modders is, it will pale when compared to the new engine.

These was no reason on earth for Maddox Games to continue development of any updates using the old game engine.

Once SOW is revealed in it's entirety IL2 will look pretty darn dated, because it is.

Outdated compared to what, exactly? Whether it is "current" or "outdated" is in your (or my) head. If people are prepared to pay money for it, it isn't outdated, no matter when it was originally coded.

The reasons for MG to continue to develop the old engine was to make money. I suspect, however, that Oleg is more of an aeronautical physicist than businessman, and there was no fun left in the old engine for him to do his tweaking - that's why the engine has been declared "outdated", and a new one declared necessary.

I hope SoW gets finished, and I hope it does make Il-2 pale. But that doesn't mean that Il-2 was stretched to its greatest commercial or technical limits. Because it simply wasn't.

Well the dead horse is beating them, they arent beating a dead horse.

Piracy is the biggest threat to our hobby. It will kill the golden goose. Even Modding is a form of Piracy that can effect the bottom line and make developers think twice before staying in the market. For the first time yesterday I'd seen some modded terrain screenshots that peeked my interest. Before those particular screenshots, I wasn't concerned that there was any competition what-so-ever.

So it does mildly concern me reading statements from the community like "And now it's all going to be done over at AAA without Ubi getting a penny." It could be a factor with the huge lose in revenue from CD piracy that the developer may also have compete in any small way with his own product.

The modders wouldn't have been able to come close to improving combat flight sims without using Oleg's software. The mods of EAW, CFS, and BOB are proof of that. The mods of IL-2 are starting to look great for the community in the short term, but I have concerns that it could stagnate combat flight sims in the long term.

The community should be OK for the next few years as I can't see the SOW series being cancelled at this point. BUT if CD piracy is rampant, even a small loss of revenue competing with their own game could tip the balance. Future addons to the SOW series could be seriously affected, except for some mods. Oleg was a member of our community who thought he could make a better product. This community may have to wait along time before another member comes along with total skill set to develop another benchmark combat flight sim.

Hopefully the developers will be able to control the loss of revenue due to CD piracy so that any small lose of revenue due to modders won't be a factor.

I don't know really, I think the whole modding thing is either a threat or an opportunity depending on how you respond to it. Yes, it could compete with the original product, but on the other hand it does encourage people to buy the original product (if only to use the mods) and it shows what could have been done with the original product. I hope the mods have encouraged more sales of 1946 (so Ubi does get a few extra pennies) but I also think that a e.g. BoB scenario using the Il-2 engine would have made mucho dinero for 1c without the huge effort of SoW. It wouldn't have been as good, obviously, but it would have kept the community occupied while work for SoW went on in the background.

This is all spilt milk, we are where we are etc. But really, I think Oleg should sometimes get less obsessed with state-of-the-art physics models, and see the potential of other areas of his sims, such as maps, textures, ground objects, skins etc. etc. There is much more "stretch" in these than he perhaps thinks. His basic work is so good, he could do a lot more with it than he perhaps thinks.

Beating a dead horse

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lRc5EbeDC6o

More fuel on the fire.

http://www.1cpublishing.eu/news/1c-a...on-2008-lineup http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/shady.gif





<- Sitting in a corner waching the panicking mob going crazy http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/59.gif

"This is all spilt milk, we are where we are etc. But really, I think Oleg should sometimes get less obsessed with state-of-the-art physics models, and see the potential of other areas of his sims, such as maps, textures, ground objects, skins etc. etc. There is much more "stretch" in these than he perhaps thinks. His basic work is so good, he could do a lot more with it than he perhaps thinks."

Its very easy to improve the work of others and not have the many constraints the original developer had to work under at the time. It would be easy for the developer to rework and tweak the IL-2 engine and made a few people happy. I would guess the majority of combat flights simmers/modders are happy he didn't take the easy way out, so we could have a next generation sim that can be improved over the next 10-15 years.

As far as we know UBI is still the puplisher of SOW so it won't be IC's game to display at Liepzig.

Jaws, the link is dead.

Let´s think a little about other types of simulators.
GT4 , from Polyphony Digital,is cooking for 4 years, and will need 1 year aditional to see the sun´s light
The lead developer stated that each car model takes 180 days to be completed, and the game have a thousand ( 2 weeks in the previous gen, GT3)
And this in a console game who made huge amounts of money to sony.
My point is:every generation of sims will take much more pain and time to born, there is nothing we can do about that , only wait, and then wait a little more.
We could see this game faster , if the market accepted to pay US 150 for copy, but I doubt this will happens.
So, until SOW arrives , and it will, I continue to play Il2, because it´s a great game and I will buy Birds of Prey, to support the genre and because I´m very curious about it.

fixed.:twisted:

As far as we know UBI is still the publisher of SOW ...in the west... so it won't be IC's game to display at Liepzig


I thought 1C is the Russian publisher?

Isn't it strange that at this supposed late stage we don't even have confirmation of the publishers of SoW?

Hearsay yes,confirmation by somebody from 1C,no.

Yes JG52Uther...I think your right...but Liepzig isn't in Russia. I think the line might be drawn between Western and Eastern Europe, but not sure. I doubt IC can advertize games in UBI territory, and SOW is not likely to be out at the end of the year if UBI doesn't advertise it Liepzig.

edit...doh...why would IC advertise a game that can't sell in Western Europe. ;)

Sorry.
What the "AAA" you are all talking about?!! :rolleyes:

IIRC, KoTS and BOP are both developed from the "outdated" IL2 engine. But those games are no where near the outdated. Go play with some MODs, you'll find IL2 has a huge potential. Take the cloud size mod for example, the size of clouds is only controled by a number in a text file. It won't take much time to change it. But it improves the immersion dramatically. The texture of maps is also controled by one small text file. Just replacing some variables may bring us to a brand-new world. I can't say the new IL2 will outperform BoB. But I'm sure it is good enough to make a great deal of money in a very short time.

KOTS dropped the IL-2 engine and are developing their own more advanced engine. Apparently BOP only used some of the IL-2 FM and also use their own engine. I don't know what IIRC is, but since you got the rest wrong, I doubt it uses the IL-2 engine either.

IIRC = If I Remember Correctly.


As far as 1C selling add ons. While it sounds good I think it is a limited appeal. The only folks that would buy the add ons would be folks who already have IL2. I can imagine the confusion on forums from newbies asking if they bought the correct add on, or which version of IL2 they need. We've all seen that, and it's inordinately frustrating for the newb to find out he bought IL2 FB/PF, but doesn't have AEP. So now he can't upgrade at all. Can you imagine the confusion with all the different versions availible now being even further muddied with addons? I doubt the effort would be as sucessful as hoped. (I'd love to be wrong)

Say he went 3rd party on us to make more money, and thus spend more time and capital on BoB. Would he release the FMs he's working of for BoB? Remember we've been 'experimenting with BoB FMs' since patch 4.01. Sure there are nondisclosure clauses, but we've all seen leaked patches. I doubt it would be different for FMs. I have no doubt that were Oleg to have done this the chances of the FMs being illegally disseminated would have been high. Even if it's a small risk it wouldn't be worth it.

As much chagrin I have toward the hack I think it's the only path open for 'continued developement' to IL2.

As for the KOTS, my source is they updated the il2 engine, instead of building a new one from scratch. The following words are form Anton Yudintsev, the head of Gaijin Entertainment, developer of "IL-2 Sturmovik: Birds of Prey":

"What we've asked for (and what we recieved) was the source code of Il-2 (flight model and AI)."

FM and AI may seem like small parts of a flight sim engine at a glance. But they takes far more time and human power to biuild than all the other parts because they are the core technology of a flight sim. Without them, IL2 wouldn't have been so popular even if it had ground-breaking graphics at that time. And you can't deny the FM of IL2 was the best among all the flight sim in the market.

@jermin

KOTS is on the different engine... they didnt use IL2 engine
BOP is console game, it does not require all the bells and whisles of flight sim, even tho it comes very close to flight simulation in many areas, based on what i read.

From Anton

Quote:
Originally Posted by flyingbullseye
Been trolling awhile and finally had to register. Still having a hard time believing that its the IL2 engine because wow absolutely stunning! Great job there devs.

Guys, once again, it is NOT IL-2 engine. It is our own Dagor Engine 3.0 (next-gen edition).

You may be right about the AI jermin, but I just remember him saying he only used parts of the FM.

Sometimes I feel like I'm in the "Twilight Zone"... It seems like just yesterday (like before the mods came out) that I was reading thread after thread about how "outdated" the "IL2 1946" FM & AI where... :)

And why wouldn't 1C advertise a game they CAN sell in Eastern Europe?

I think the obvious answer is that the game is a looooong way off. I still think i am closest with a 2010 release date.

I wouldnt go that far :) But it`s deffinitely not this christmas

I say 2010 and not before. It's impossible they get it before. I just hope it won't be Xmas 2010.

Liepzig is in Germany not Russia and probably part of the UBI publishing/advertising/ distribution area. IC probably only has distribution/publishing/advertising in Russia.

Well they do have shows in Russia as well you know and theres no sign of it there either.

All these authoritarians on the forums boards that write postings in an officious manner. They present themselves to be insiders and know something all the rest of us do not, and all we dummies had better listen up.

They're as bad as the crazy dudes that dress up and act like policemen. The kind that ride around in automobiles that they have fixed up to look like police cars and look for people to harrass. These kinda dudes are basically nuts.

These types of people frequent forums.

I think there are more than a few of them hanging around forums than we know. They suspiciously profess their insider status, but have no legitimate credentials.

If they are on the up and up they would do well to tell us just who the heck they are and who/what gives them the authority to present themselves that way.

Being a moderator isn't a credential, nor does it make the moderator an insider as a rule.

I've been a moderator on forums and didn't know zip about what the principals that owned the sites were up to.

Sorry, one of those little chirpy postings with all the things we gonna do and some airplane pictures isn't going to cut it.

It's time to get the horse outta the barn and show us the darned thing is alive, and viable, or quit making fools out of the community and declare the truth of it.

"the horse is dead, BOB SOW that is"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rK9lvc0wTMk

correct....you can see at Galax page that 1C and Oleg himself are often in RU at shows but no SOW news....nothing...zero....ništa...rien...ниче го

You are Oleg in disguise, and I claim my £5.

Just curious, who are you referring to?

Good then it is 2009...thanks Ivan:-P

As far as i remember, I think it was said years ago, Oleg is an ex Russian Military Aeronautical Engineer, if thats true, then thats why he takes pride in is accuracy of FMs, which of course takes time for perfection. So i dont doubt for a minute that he would do a poor console port to pc, or anything else that would tarnish his immaculate reputation.
Take a look at the amount of time he spent between updates, 3 months, but the post is short, and he didnt appologise for that. That in itself tells me he is working his balls off, and is feeling, like any scientific person, that he's owed a little respect for his pain. im sure he will be back with another update soon. I can imagine there are many issues to organise, such as, will UBI be the publisher, what security mechanisms are required.

On the other hand, One thing the community and modders need to be aware of, is the fact that if these modders insist on being incontent and disrespectful by cracking his software, and alterring it, changing sounds etc... then its hardly surprising Oleg would be angry, and more than likely decide to screw the community, as the community screwed him by messing with his product. So, you get a little PSP or Nintendo Wii version of IL2 next, and you can use a wii wand instead of a HOTAS. How you like that?

Also, there are 2-3 other flight sims being released (probably) in the next 6-9 months. Whether there is some strategy hes employing as to timely release, we wont know till it happens i guess.

Too bad, the BOB SOW is dead.
 

You need to remember nobody cracked anything since 2000. Oleg has had carte blanche treatment, like no other developer I'm aware. That is, as far as messing with any part of his sacred code. For years, we've been dependent on favored insiders to produce maps for IL2. The maps we now can acquire at AAA are better than every IL2 map, except Slovakia.

This whole community has been messed over for the past 2+ years. The 4.09patch is a good example. No one messed with anything until they started gettting messed over.

MARK THESE WORDS
Console air combat game like IL2 will NEVER be successful.


Several reasons... The kids that play the Console games are interested in very fast action, little strategy tweaks, and lots of noise, monster explosions, lots of hacking, pounding and shooting. Console game playes want incredible stuff at fast and furious speeds. They sure aren't going to be interested to perfect air combat flying skills to nail a tough realsitic enemy flight and damage model aircraft. Console game players have their little efficient controller secured between their little jam cover fingers and they're giving what for to what's it. LOL

PC developers of Complex games like the IL2 Sturmovik have got to figure ways to protect their software from piracy. If they can't find a way to do that large numbers of thieves will certainly bootleg. The immersion is the big thing with a Combat Flight Sim like IL2, the joystick, the throttle, the pedals, the sound, the track IR. Users experience a game like IL2... they don't play it.

The Il2 Sturmovik - Birds of Prey console game will flop

If you play the Trailer for Birds of Prey... the map area is Britain and the aircraft are 16 polys. These are things Oleg was presenting to start with about the BOB SOW. I conclude, He got diverted and that's what he's spent his time on.

Too bad, the BOB SOW is dead.

If you think you're supporting the IL2 community by buying a console game like Birds of Prey you are wrong. You're just pushing us further from competent PC based Combat flight siml like the BOB SOW would have been.

thanks for correcting me where i needed it nearmiss.

question: was the last update he did 16 poly a/cs? is Avro Ansen in that console game?

yes agree with you. i dont know a single person who is even thinking of buying a ps3 or xbox. even though they have all owned ps2, me included.

nearmiss, i am not sure what happened to you lately... but i am bit suprized on how you present things. You sound like you know a lot about IL-2 development...BOP development...even SOW developement... I came to the conclusion...you are either in the major fishing trip or...you are Oleg under cover...which one is it? :D

How many times do you guys have to be told that the console game is not Oleg's? All he supplied was the IL2 engine, nothing else. No models, no maps, no content of any kind.

Do any of you ever read any posts here for comprehension? Are you even capable of it?

And quit the childish whining about 4.09. Spamming the forums with your schoolyard bully tone only makes you look like fools, and will not get you a patch any quicker.

In short, grow up.

:evil:

That's a bold and cruel put down.

How about you corroborate what you just said?

A few links to legitimate sites would certainly be a good start. Forum postings by other users would NOT be a good referral.

I look at the Birds of Prey aircraft and they sure as heck look like 16 poly we were shown for SOW. I've also seen SOW landscape renders that look like those I see in the Birds of Prey. In fact, those renders in the Birds of Prey sure look like the English countryside.

I may be seeing more detail than others. I do have a new system with an 8800 512MB overclocked GTS Video card.

Check out this High Definition movie of BOP

http://forum.1cpublishing.eu/showthr...?t=3544&page=6

Quotes from Anton Yudintsev ....answers community questions
CEO&President of Gaijin Entertainment
Developer of BOP

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Quote:
Originally Posted by *Buzzsaw*
My understanding from Olegs comment is the engine was developed from IL-2. Is this not correct? Is it completely new code or does the engine use IL-2 as the basis?

It is completely new code and it is not even evolution of IL-2. Only Flight Model is from original IL-2.

Quote:
Originally Posted by flyingbullseye
Been trolling awhile and finally had to register. Still having a hard time believing that its the IL2 engine because wow absolutely stunning! Great job there devs.

Guys, once again, it is NOT IL-2 engine. It is our own Dagor Engine 3.0 (next-gen edition).

08-12-2008, 07:46 PM
Anton Yudintsev
Member Join Date: Jun 2008
Posts: 31



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Quote:
Originally Posted by Skarphol
I'm not worried about Birds of Prey taking resources from Storm of War as BOP is developed by another developer.

Guys!
I am a little bit tired telling one same thing over and over again.
There is no content from SoW neither from Il-2 in Birds of Prey game.
NO. ANY. CONTENT.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Last edited by Anton Yudintsev : 08-12-2008 at 07:53 PM.

07-02-2008, 08:43 PM
Anton Yudintsev
Member Join Date: Jun 2008
Posts: 31



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


07-04-2008, 07:05 PM
Anton Yudintsev
Member Join Date: Jun 2008
Posts: 31



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Quote:
Originally Posted by Xiola
Its the IL2 engine.

It is not. Please, do not confuse others.



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Quote:
Originally Posted by VMF-214_HaVoK
Dagor Engine 3.0 (next-gen edition).

Aha.
It is not Il-2 Engine. So BoP's quality doesn't tell anything about SoW either.

07-05-2008, 03:08 PM
Anton Yudintsev
Member Join Date: Jun 2008
Posts: 31



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

07-03-2008, 12:28 PM
Anton Yudintsev
Member Join Date: Jun 2008
Posts: 31



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisDNT
If this can be done just with a modified Il2 render engine

It can't

07-03-2008, 12:26 PM
Anton Yudintsev
Member Join Date: Jun 2008
Posts: 31

BOP may not be successfull but I know I would buy an xbox to try it out if it comes out before SOW.

That HD movie of BOP looks awesome. Looks like some Mediterraenen terrain.
http://forum.1cpublishing.eu/showthr...?t=3544&page=6

Maybe all those "quotes" by Anton Yudintsev in Chivas' post #98 should be stickied at the top of the forum once and for all.