BoM: Wonder if they'll model the poor Soviet Plexiglass?
 

Salute

Early models of the Yak-1, MiG-1/3 and especially the LaGG-3/LaGG-5 had cockpit plexiglass with very poor optical qualities, to the point that Soviet pilots removed it, or flew with an open cockpit.

This reduced speed by quite a bit, up to 20 kph in some cases.

Wonder if they'll model this in BoM. Should be a part of the game.

Of course, I-15's and I-16's didn't have the problem since they only had the glass windshield.

I'm sure that all the Soviet planes in BoM will be modeled perfectly, and the game will be everything that Clod failed to be, simply because it is of more interest to the devs.

I've always thought those imperfections in the glass (scratches etc.) were a great boost to immersion. Hoping that at some point some mod makes its way into the clod planes as well...

Imperfections may have existed in British and American cockpit plexiglass, but they were minor compared to the Soviet problems. Their glass was often cloudy, of varying thickness and warped, creating distortions and making it very difficult to spot opponents.

That was the reason pilots preferred to fly with an open cockpit.

it'd be tight if they also modeled the light reflection / glare changes with the random distortions . . .


they should put it a toggle, [] poor Soviet glass and [] us / brit plexiglass
scratched

no better yet a slider

poor Soviet [][][][] US / Brit scratched [][][][] polished [][][][]factory new

for the folks that will scream they can't see the 109's

I asked Luthier in a Q&A if they would have gunsights or painted on the windscreen DIY jobs, he just said it would be "historically correct"... So there is proberbly your answer.

Don't expect MG to nerf VVS planes. All historical production and QA problems will certainly not be modelled. :rolleyes:

Western plane's plastic was maintained with a cleaner/polish that pretty much eliminated scratches, but that was up to the crew chief (elbow grease and time) and the pilot (what he would accept). Gunners often maintained their own plastic. Pictures often show a not so spotless aircraft with sparkling clean and clear windows. Visibility was considered essential, and a tactical advantage.

The Russians open canopies (I'm a recognized expert here - lol) were often times due as much to fumes and heat as their relatively poor quality plastic.

Actually they flew with open cockpit because early types has problem with ventilation(heat and fume)

S!

I would not expect them to model the actual numbers for the VVS fighters as the whine would overwhelm anything seen here. LAgG-3 was utter piece of crap, pilots had to fly radiators open to avoid overheat, engine was underpowered, craftmanship sub-par. Add to that fumes, yellow tint plexiglass etc. and you get the pic.

First battles with La-5 were far from a success, Yak's had to ESCORT them because of poor performance and Bf109F-4/G-2 outperforming them in every way almost. Excessive workload for the pilot in La-5, undercarriages suffering breakages etc. List goes on and on. Stalin said: Quantity in itself is quality. Go figure.

What I expect to see in sequel are those TsAGI values with polished, stripped and seamless planes etc. The so called paper numbers which very few, if any, production aircraft met. The Russian FMs in IL-2 were already copy/paste in many planes..

+1 ;)

Can't bet. So manifested evacuation factories in the Urals and 24 hours work of children and untrained women.

My grandfather was builder of new factories in Siberia and Urals in 41-43. They built big (in comparison) factories (200x120 meters) in woodland in one month.

I think you are wrong.
Try to read something here with translator as I did.

http://iremember.ru/letchiki-istrebiteli/blog.html

http://iremember.ru/letchiki-shturmoviki/blog.html

You even have technical personnel.

http://iremember.ru/letno-tekh-sostav/blog.html

You will find many details there as wich fuel was used in particular sq(colour)
even how the food was and did they get 100g of vodka )


Germans had better planes in the beginning and more experienced pilots.
Germans used different tacticks then VVS.

99% pilots showed respect for LW pilots but also sad that they never attacked if they are not in a better position.They also never closely protected their bombers they were always ~3000m higher and not so close so russian pilots usually divide in two groups, one engaging fighters and other attacking bombers.

On the other way VVS bombers were closely protected and pilots were even punished for loss of bombers.
Covering group was also divided one close with bombers and other would engage enemy fighters.

Yes LW pilot could disengage at few first years of war but you will see if you read some of those memoirs that in combat speed they were on pair with german planes.
For the VVS pilots disengage was not an option.
Pilots who did that few times were sent as gunner in Il-2 to gather some courage.
But that was very rare.

Thank you Vranac for links. Very interesting. Here I found the interview of the famous pilot of Il-2 http://iremember.ru/letchiki-shturmo...ndreevich.html

And very interesting story of La-5FN pilot http://www.airpages.ru/ru/aleks.shtml

Hopefully not, although if past history is a guide, 1C will model their aircraft on factory performance figures.

Just as another perspective on Soviet quality, they did produce many aircraft which were innovative and advanced, and which performed well.

For example, during the Spanish Civil War, when the I-16 and I-15 were introduced, they initially completely outperformed the German He-51 biplanes, it wasn't till the 109's were introduced that the Condor Legion had a fighter which was of similar quality.

The Yak-1 and MiG-1/3 had many features which made them excellent fighters, the LaGG-3 less so, the La-5 initially wasn't much better than the LaGG, but improved.

My point was the problems with plexiglass was well documented in the early war aircraft.

Salute

With all due respect to the sacrifice of many Russian and other Soviet nationality lives, this as an example of inflexible Soviet tactical doctrine, (from Stalin) requiring pilots to stay and fight when a better situation would be to disengage and return later, is just one reason why the Soviet losses were so huge. (they admitted losing 60,000 planes, claimed 80,000 Germans, but German loss figures were about 15,000)

Requiring Fighters to load rockets and bombs, and sending them in at low altitudes, the whole lack of a high altitude air superiority fighter, meant the Germans were default given complete dominance up high, as well as the initiative and the ability to make attacks when and where they chose, all of this led to the losses, and the creation of the high scoring East Front Luftwaffe Aces.

It wasn't till Alexander Pokryshkin and others developed better tactics, and began to fly at higher alts that the Soviets began to turn the tables. And their gaining air superiority really had more to do with simple numbers than any good planning by the VVS higher ranks.

Attachment 11130

Need no comments....:rolleyes:

S!

I've read Russian memoirs and they all follow same theme: We shot down Germans with words and writings on our planes, we struck them down with pure awesomeness! Give me a break ;) Russians did not admit their losses at all in many cases, evidence found in their archives, mostly they were "technical problems". I would say they had some very talented pilots like Golybev or Pokryshkin leading a mass of medicore pilots + almost endless reserves and insane supply of planes. Germans could not win a war of attrition against that.

Anyways I would not expect the flaws and poor workmanship being reflected in the sequel, on either side. Will be interesting to see how it turns out. Gonna get the sequel for sure just to support combat sims.

In the first years on the Eastern front Red Army had to stop agression with any means and at any cost.
My country was also attacked in april 1941. with more then 10:1 in the air and pilots were taking off, attacking the enemy even heavily outnumberd,
geting shot down but taking off again until there was no more planes.

Did RAF pilots disengaged when they defended their country even outnubered tryin to stop enemy bomber formation.?
Don't think so.
LW sent their pilots on practically suicide missions to attack bombers which were very well covered at the end of the war.

You don't have that luxury when you are defending your country.

And just one more point regarding numbers VVS confirmed downed planes only if ground crew find the remains of the planes even when guncams were introduced.It was the case in Korea also.
LW confirmed kills on witneses and guncam recordings.

Sorry for the off.

+1

Salute Vranac

I have the utmost respect for all the Russian/Ukrainian/Belorussian, etc. people who sacrificed their lives in the Second World War. (Great Patriotic War for Soviets)

There is no question the efforts of the Soviets were the country most responsible for the defeat of the Nazis, more Germans died on the East Front, there was never less than 60% of the Wehrmacht committed to the East Front at any time, sometimes the figure was as high as 80%. The Battles at Moscow, Stalingrad and Kursk were decisive events of WWII. (along with the Battle of Britain)

However, it is also clear that the policies of Stalin and his officials and Commanders were often poorly thought through and counterproductive. This led to the unnecessary sacrifice of many, including many pilots and aircraft of the VVS.

The committment of Soviet aircraft and pilots to blind and foolish attacks in the early days of the war decimated the VVS. Pilots of all aircraft types were ordered to load up bombs and simply head for the front, without any kind of serious planning or tactics in mind. The same thing was happening on the ground, with Soviet divisions being sent in headlong suicidal attacks against enveloping German Panzer forces, when withdrawals to prepared defensive positions would have provided a much better defence of the country.

The Soviets had 20,000 aircraft available in 1941 compared to 5,000 German and Axis Allied. Although many of those Soviet aircraft were obsolescent biplanes, the numbers were such that they could have provided more opposition. Instead, huge numbers were destroyed on the ground because Stalin forbade any show of preparing for war, many were parked wingtip to wingtip on the ground when the German bombers came over as dawn was breaking on June 22nd 1941. After the initial surprise attack, Stalin ordered immediate attack by all available aircraft. By that time, most of the remaining aircraft had to be brought up from storage areas, and were often obsolete types. Anyone disagreeing or showing any signs of hesitation, even for simple planning, was threatened with being shot. Huge numbers of the pool of experienced Soviet pre-war pilots were killed by being sent off in obsolete planes on missions which were either poorly planned or not planned at all. Planes such as the I-15 and I-16, which were quite maneuverable in fighter loadout, were loaded up with bombs and rockets, and told to attack anything they came across. In their unmaneuverable state they were slaughtered in their hundreds by the German 109's.

These kinds of policies by the Commanders of the VVS, under the supervision of Stalin were ultimately very destructive. The Soviet VVS almost did not recover. If it was not for Lendlease aircraft, there would not have been enough planes in 1942, this was the reason Soviet pilots had to fly the Hurricanes and Tomahawks.

Effective use of the VVS did not start until late in 1942, and even in the last days of the war, many costly errors continued to be made due to the interference of Stalin and Communist officials.

You mention the fighting efforts of the RAF in the Battle of Britain. With all due respect, the situation and result was very different.

The RAF was well prepared, with Radar and early warning systems coordinating aircraft and pilots. There was no surprise, and the RAF won the Battle of Britain decisively, shooting down far more German planes than they lost despite being outnumbered more than two to one. They did this because their leaders did not foolishly send them headlong into battle, RAF controllers moved their Squadrons to engage enemy bombers, avoided enemy fighter sweeps whenever possible, and planned their attacks.

Seems we had a lot of soviet Pilot flying during BoB, at least for the first two years of it ;)

Btw good post of you just above :)

Looking at all these recent Buzzsaw threads, I've got a feeling that Buzzsaw finally got fed up with Red and wants to join Blue. :p

i heard accounts that blue sticks were heavy while red lighter

i propose to introduce lag on blue sticks as the elevator trim behaves now and keep reds as it is

honestly i dont understand it i fly the best plane that i find why people has that fetiche complex