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To Oleg or Luthier: 4.09 / mods question
First, let me say Thank You for the long awaited updates. BoP looks like it will be a good boost for the 1C brand, and hopefully fuel your machine for future work. I really look forward to the release of all the SOW series.
On to the question: It's been a long time since any 4.09 talk. I know the 1C team has been incredibly busy. I'm not asking "when", but I would like to know what your thoughts are regarding the mods that have come out, and any possible addition of them to the 4.09 patch, making them "official". I haven't personally added any mods, but I have read a good deal of info on them. Some sound great, like the Sounds mods, and adding exsisting cockpits, like a bf-110 cockpit to a me-210 to make it flyable. I'm all for the addition of new planes. Some mods seem nefarious, like 6DOF, and the possibility of messing with FM's or DM's. And some I'm on the fence about... especially the change in cockpit for the FW-190, removing the lower bar. (Yes, that old arguement again) I'd like your opinion, and would like to know if there are any plans for some of these to be added to 4.09. Or what plans are there for 4.09? and when might we see it? (Sorry, had to ask :-D) |
The problem that the mods bring is that seeing as its possible to remove the bar on the FW190 and change the cockpits, then its obviously possible to have no cockpit at all on cockpit always on servers. Just make a cockpit mod which has all the gfx missing, it would be simple for anyone to do this. THATS the big problem and why so many are against the mods.
Its not the people who add fantastic content, obviously thats great. Its the bad side which comes with the modding which makes it all undesirable. You cxant have one without the other. The person who broke the code basically opened the game up to unlimited cheating. |
CRT2 takes care of that to an excellent degree. Any serious mods that use class files get booted automatically.
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If this were possible, there would be a big debate about what to let in and what not to let in. I would think sounds would be a huge bonus, and of couse I have other preferences, but it really comes down to what 1C decides. My bigger concern is just to lock the game back up so we don't have the possiblity of cheating anymore. |
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my understanding is that a lot of the "mod" sounds (like the BF109) come from the micro$oft flight sim products so they could never be officially included in IL2 1946... |
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I recently saw an Me-210 attack an airstrip on a non-AI airquake-server, so for me it's not a funny mod any longer. |
An unexpected hostile aircraft isn't so bad. It's not like you got bounced by a Hello-Kitty Tirpitz or something.
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The 6DoF mod is not reliant on any other title. It works so very well that I'd love to see it incorporated and made available to the wider community. If nothing else, that alone would bring Il-2 so much more up to date. It would mean opening the correct SFS file, substituting five tiny class files, totalling 24.2kb (thats all it is) and closing the SFS file again. Too hard you reckon?
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Question: Does it provide the same functionality for non-TIR users (I mean the "shift POV" functionality)? No? Then you already have the answer, because in the current form it is nothing but a money cheat for those who can afford TIR4 (I've got a TIR4 Pro so "sour grapes" isn't going to work here).
Apart from that I think the mere thought of legalizing the effects of an illegal action (the cracking of the file protection) is pretty ludicrous. Get over it. :roll: |
Also the new maps have nothing in common with Microsoft or other products
Maraz |
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As long as you can stick your head through the canopy in some planes and look through nose and other parts of the planes in most others, this should remain an option to the non-pit-flyers. Realistic and immersion are no words I'd bring together with this 6DoF-mod. |
I don't believe either in the inclusion of mods that are undeniably bound to an illegal crack of a code, and I don't think it will happen.
But, in all fairness, it has to be said that (sometimes to the modders surpise also) some very little changements made it possible to solve old bugs and improve other things. I would say here for example: 1) planes do not fly all the time with nav lights "on" in night missions. 2) the "hole in the wing" bug solved in all BF109 planes 3) the "bar" solved in the FW190 cockpit 4) windgusts now possible on different heights or possible bad weather with and without windgusts...5) option to see smoke/fire much further away...and last but not least 6) possible in mission builder now to select objects by groups (HUGE economy of time for serious mission builder!!) Last one made me, I have to be honest, a little angry at Oleg (sorry Oleg, still love you), because the modder said this option was there all the time, it just needed to be activated with a little number....took about 20sec of work....Do you have any idea how many hundreds of hours I and other mission and campaign builders have lost with object placing....while the option for group placing was there all the time.....I think such thing really deserves "official" activation in 4.09.. |
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Whatever. Anyway, it won't happen so there is no point making a fuss. Presumably Thor is strongly against 6DoF being a feature of SoW, just in case it offers an advantage against non-tir when online. If and when SoW sees release, you will find yourself grateful that there is a ready-made community and network of individuals, ready to work on 3rd party projects for BoB's open source component. |
You got some valid points there KOM.Nausicaa.
But I still think this is a completely different aspect. These mods are literally done by hundreds of people a lot of them taking codes and sounds from other games, changing certain items, which cause problem on other sides. Oleg didn't have this choice, because there were other priorities, because he could not just implement code or sounds from other games, because he has to see that a simple patch doesn't make it necessary to upgrade your PC, because for example more units in more packed areas suddenly appear on standard-missions or fires with new OpenGL-routine suck up performance. he also has to see that an effect on one plane doesn't change the effect on another plane and of course if he'd changed the bar in the FW190 a lot of folks would have cried out loudly, demanding various minor fixes on other planes. You can see what people demand here for justification that just a little thing is promised or changed for another "group of fans". Developing a game for a market is a lot more complicated than changing a few elements for some fans. ;) |
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Does it give a pilot an unfair advantage over another player? I for one play against several pilots flying with trackir and to be honest I really could not care which way their heads are leaning, neither could my Me109's cannons :grin: It would be almost as bad as complaining about some pilots having expensive joysticks... It may help but not that much :grin: The only real mod I have an issue with is the sound mods. |
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From a neutral/official point of View, the modders snuck in from the back door and made them comfortable in the house, putting their feet on the table, emptying the beer keg and taking bites off the chicken in the oven.
Do oleg and the team now have to go and serve these "bastards" :) dessert? Creme brulee and after that a good irish wishkey, double malt Jameson 1876? Possibly also apologise? Because "the community wants"? Now just WHO are we? Or is the question more like "Who do we think we are"? Reflect on that question for a moment. I understand, and mostly agree with what Nausicaa is saying (small features mods, nothing too big and complicated), and i have flown the Liberator too for a few moments, but... N-N, I will stick with what i have been given for about 100 bucks over a 4-5 year period. And even manage to say thank you. For that BoP vid too. |
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But not activating the group object placer in FMB, which was ALREADY there according to the guy who did it, is beyond my comprehension.
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Then let us ask the man and his fellow workers that question, and add to your, and mine and our communities comprehension...?:grin:
OMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMmmmmmmmmmmmm 8) 8) |
That mad complaining of mine, over at the SoH, has reminded me that patience is a virtue...:grin:
Wenn man den Teufel nennt kommt er gerennt!:grin: |
I think this is all being blown out of proportion be be honest,for me the best thing i think to come out of it all(hack's/mods) is def 6DOF,it's made it all soooo much more natual and easy to see what going on around me(plus I'm pretty sure real pilots had 6DOF too ;) ) and i find it kinda ironic that the server's that this would be most usefull(ie full switch server's) are the server's that can't allow it due to CRT2(which i DO totally understand the need for).
As far as it being and advantage,yes it is,but......no more then having trackir as opposed to not having it and having to use the hatswitch(which could be played with so you could use it with a hatswitch,lean button anybody?)or other buttons,or having a full HOTAS over having a cheap stick and useing the keyboard,or a bigger clearer monitor ect ect...If we got this and only this i would be happier then i can put into writing here. of coarse that said it'll never happen officially for IL-2 so I'm quiet happy to keep useing it offline to enhance my campaign playing :) |
I thought about this a lot, I really did.
The guys in the modding community have supplied and created many add-ons/improvements that Oleg and team have no time (just look at 4.09) to create and work on as they are onto their next project. This doesn't mean that it's ok, but alternatively, they have sparked much interest amongst the dedicated and stalwart supporters and flyers of IL2 from the original to 1946 version! This can only serve 1C and Oleg better as it stirs interest in forth-coming projects. The downside is that people can see what they can have, and if Oleg doesn't have it in his new Sim or BoB, then the staves and pitchforks will be wielded! What I did think though with a wry smile, is what about if Oleg turned the tables and took the mods and incorporated them into 4.09? How could the modders complain. They have 'stolen' his code, so what could they do if Oleg stole their mods back and incorporated their code? Now that would be interesting.... Cheers, MP. |
Would be interesting indeed. But he cannot.
The modders stole the code and ripped files from other games. Oleg hasn't got the freedom to take these sounds and incorporate them into an official patch. Besides that, it would take quite a long time to see what changes were done, what effect that has on the rest of the game and if the changes are justified or not. I guess some minor things would be accepted, some others probably not. Another thing is flyables. The modders can simply copy'n'paste flightmodels from similar planes and that's about it. If Oleg did so officially, a flamewar would start, that surpasses any "50s vs Tigers" and "To bar or not to bar" by far. Even worse with the 6DOF. Oleg posted before, that he'd like to do that for IL2, but the work on the cockpit simply forbid that. As the situation has not really softened down, I don't see why this has changed. So 6DOF wouldn't be possible. But if you make these exceptions, you also make it pretty clear that you have to review the mods and it's also clear that those not chosen would be pretty pissed. |
This reminds me of the ferocious arguments among boardgamers in the '70's about SPI (Simulations Publications International) boardgames and the Avalon Hill "classics." The Players of the hoary, old Avalon Hill games had a well-established play-by-mail system, player rating system, and convention competition system. These players of had played AH games for years, there was literally an established literature on their play like chess. They perceived the new, popular SPI games as completely toxic. The SPI games were seen to destroy the carefully established competition system which depended on the perpetuation of the use of the AH "classics." SPI players were seen as anarchists by the hard-core AH players. There were bitter debates. Before long everybody recognized the vast superiority of SPI games in terms of quality, realism, and presentation, and the arguments ceased. Nothing in this world stands still. Especially products for consumers. IL-2 is a game. it is not holy doctrine possessed of some intrinsic, immutable truth. It is just a toy.
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+ 1.... Sadly, things changed. It's like when the knights at middleage posted a rule banning the crossbow because it was a cheat and not fair weapon against them... Well, at the beginning everyone agreed, but no one stopped using them because it was really an improvment in warfare....
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Thanks Maraz |
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Same is for some other parts of the code, but I won't go into more detail here. The fact that I don't think legalizing the modding-idea is the best choice doesn't mean I am ignorant or that I don't use or test them or look into the things that were changed, JFYI. ;) |
leitmotive::
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Paraquoting Mark Twain, rumours of the sim's demise have been grossly exaggerated. The FB/PF community, online and offline together, has moved well beyond the old "cheater" accusations of the hostile computer gamers as I long ago predicted. |
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The samples now come from Mediterranean Air War - the freeware third party addon for CFS3. It's in the readme. |
The Strikefighters' mods sometimes make use of 3rd Party work from other sims. I assume this may be fairly common in the gaming world. Would this be Correct Thinking? As I only play The Sims, and only one The Sim at a time -- Strikefighters currently no more FB -- I never really thought about it before but it makes sense.
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As a freeware-addon, MAW has little problems to use credits for using other peoples or CFS sounds and mixing them with sounds from other sources for a non-profit-addon. That's different for MG and IL2, though. Besides that the readme just thanks Lawdog for allowing to use his engine-samples. It doesn't say that all engine samples are from him. ;) If you follow the discussion on the boards, you'll notice where a lot of sounds came from. |
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Maraz |
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Correct. But the thing I pointed out was the problem that Oleg has to dig through all of these mods and ensure himself that there is no code, no texture or soundfile included from another game or all profit from SoW will go to the lawyers. I have great respect for some of the work (though I still think the way it's done is wrong), but considering all the circumstances, I'd rather have Oleg and his team working on SoW, so these modders can implement their work officially rather than digging through these mods and implementing them in a patch for an old game. |
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Maraz |
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Now as long as it was being distributed within the terms of that agreement there wouldn't be a problem. But if the product was distributed as part of a commercial software package, the copyright owners would be entitled to see some moola for all their hard work! When the Modder rip samples from here, there and every where, who in their right mind would encorporated into a patch for their game? Not me! |
IMO the issue of cheating is now moot... Now in the future things may go south... but fore the most part I have not seen the cheating... Some of the things from AAA are just flat out EXCEDLLENT... like the QMB Plus... and the ability to change default skins... the flyable AI planes... all that stuff is great.. and IMO regardless to how the initial process was done... which is an entirely different issue.. credit should be given where it is due... not only to the AAA community admins for doing the job they do to foster an atmosphere where cheating is discouraged on their site.. to some of the flat out great stuff coming from there.
What this reminds me of sometimes is like Prometheus. He stole fire from the gods and gave it ti man.... Now prometheus in the eyes of the gods was wrong and needed to be punished... and he was.... layed out on that rock with the bird eating his liver for all eternity.. Hower the gods with all their power could not take fire back from man... and man could not be faulted one bit for using the tool provided by Prometheus. I hope that 1C will look at some of the stuff coming from AAA and incorporate what can be incorporated or at the very least give the nod to some of the stuff coming out of there... because it isn't all bad.... |
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It's all a question of perspective. |
Bearcat
I think I have a better analogy: Imagine you buy something like a car, a TV, a hi-fi system, a computer, etc from a private person on the internet ... You bought it in good faith and are happy about the purchase. But now let us assume it turns out to have been stolen from someone else. According to german law you still had to hand it back to the original owner, despite your lack of knowledge. And you won't be compensated, either. The fact remains that someone broke into the file protection and unlocked files which weren't supposed to be open. You honestly think any developer would approve this act retroactively by embracing what other people made of it? Wouldn't that be a sign to other folks that "anything goes"? It would certainly set a precedent which could hurt Maddox Games forever. |
Bearcat::
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Bear:: Quote:
Oleg's apparent position against hack-modding process is the "moral" reason why I refuse to use any mods but then I don't play the sim anymore because I would like to mod it up! A central bank chairman may call this an irrational connundrum but it is one that could be resolved if Oleg takes into his sim, and so "approves," even one (1) mod or a derivative of it. Then I can buy my upgrade, 1C gets a repeat customer, and I can modup some early Easter Front which Oleg abandoned long ago, and some Spanish Civil War. I'd like to see JG52_Tuckie's Spanish Civil War modding team come back to the living FB from TargetWare. http://i35.photobucket.com/albums/d1...y-ylflower.gif |
Interesting thread; good point LEXX. I too would have continued buying Olegs products. To this day I would still pay $30 or $40 or $50 for a Spanish Civil War Campaign based on the old IL-2 Engine! Or a North Africa Campaign or a Med Campaign. He could still be raking in the money on the old IL-2. I could be wrong?
Look at the MS Flight Sim market any single aircraft addon can cost $25 to $50USD. Interesting thread! Oh I liked Luthiers post about the IL-2 source code going to 3rd party about a year ago! Was that leased or sold? |
Thanks! Here is Tuckie_JG52's TARGET SPAIN thread at the TargetWare forum. Last poast dates from over one year ago.
Tuckie (July 2003):: Quote:
Tuckie come home Wow, I think Thor and I say the same thing, kinda. just...wow ... If Oleg does NOT approve of the generalized process of modding through the hacked tools, then I don't think he will add any of those mods to 4.09. But who knows... |
Oleg does not need to add any mods to 4.09, they are already being added to the 4.09 beta and in fact some of them require 4.09 to work.
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true suncahser but the big question is not if we CAN do it but if we SHOULD do it and I personly agree with BC on this,it wont happen(although I'd love to be wrong) but i still agree.
Thor i think BC's analogy is much better and more relevent and to be honest and unless you'v NEVER dropped litter,jaywalked or broken the law in ANY way ever i find it a bit hippocritical to keep coming back to the law side of it all.I dont mean offence(really i dont)but i cant think of another way to put it. and as for fire?well it has caused much destruction(although mankind is still here) but it has also brought warmth,life and security to many the world over. perspective IS a funny thing. |
Why in the world should he ever accept any mod's...duh...it would be like
saying it's ok, Oleg accepted, now lets hack bob |
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With all due respect, I think that you should consider resigning your moderator position over at ubi...condoning hacking is a no no for the staff:-P |
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Crack will never be legalized. You know that and you probably know several reasons why it won't happen. The pure fact that it's fun to use and some people put a lot of work in it doesn't mean it would do a better job as a legal thing. (ambiguity intended ;) ) |
Bah. Bear is right in a sense -- some of these mods NEED to be in Oleg's sim from the narrow standpoint of offering the customers a more immersive product, other objections aside for the moment. Its taken 5 years, but we are finding that Oleg's sim is not CFS3, and that Oleg is not Microsoft. http://i35.photobucket.com/albums/d1...ileys/Wink.gif I just looked at the AAA forum, clouds specifically, and the modders seem to be making advances in the sim that could have kept Oleg's customer base more interested in his base product over the decade.
"If only" Oleg had added many of these AAA created features years ago, or better, offered modding tools without a hack required....many asked, and were called "cheaters" on another forum...well, as I always say: maybe for BoB And Beyond. |
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Do you ever feel like Sisyphus? :) I know I do (LOL) |
LOL. Prometheus, Sisyphus, who's next?
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Forged in fire, one of the four base elements. Yes.
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The "mods" would NEVER work as a legitimate update...
The only reason people put up with the limitations (and shortcomings) of the mods is because they are an "illegal" hacked mod. People like the idea of the mods because they feel like they are making an "end run" around the "official policy". People feel like the Robbin Hood feeling... people feel like they are giving (and getting) the fixes that (big, bad corporate) Oleg is not able (or is unwilling) to give the fine and loyal customer base. If the mods where made official and included in a patch people who become much more critical of the work that has been done... people who expect Oleg and his people to "fix" the things that are not perfect with the mods... Trust me, everyone will be much happier all around as long as the mods are kept "illegal"... P.S. DON'T get me wrong... many of the mods look very professional, but as I read through the message boards you can read all types of problems that people have with various mod installs and such...and we all know that their are some people that just like to nit-pick and find fault... |
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they aren't yes men,nor should they be. p.s. and this isnt the UBI baords :P |
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Just for the record... I have tried the mods in case anyone failed to read between the lines.. and I am glad that I waited as long as I did.. I felt that I had to see how all this would pan out before i put my toe in that water... but I have sen no crocks, no fins floating in the water.... no little brown logs and no yellow water... so I jumped in and having tried them I have no regrets. I watched and read at the AAA site for months.. just to see where this was all going... and again.. as I said in this thread.. there has not been rampant cheating .. the sim is not "ruined" and frankly I think that the sim will actually benefit in the long run. There are still new folks coming to UBI every day. Quote:
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I agree that some of these mods are well done and a lot of hard work are put into them, yes.
I don't agree, though, that IL2, Oleg or MG will benefit from it and neither will they ever implement these changes officially. If it does happen against all odds, it means that Oleg officially abandoned his firstborn. I also disagree that this crack hasn't stolen anything. It's not that they stole money from Oleg, lowered number of sales or anything, but for a lot of people it took away a lot of faith in the brand and in the ability of MG to react in a way to these mods, for example to ban them from certain servers. I've seen it with my own eyes, that these mods were in used on protected servers and I it is exactly what you, Bearcat, and I feared a while ago: It's not about the people who did the mods, it's about people who abuse it. Besides that, we have to face another threat: While these mods become more popular, a lot of people already posted here and on UBI, what the deal is about BoB. There are a lot of people who think that with the new engine sounds and additional flyables, even their favorite planes, that BoB can't get any better, especially with the limited timescale and the limited number of planes compared to IL2. And on this end of the story, it does steal money away from Oleg, because BoB will have less appeal to people who primarily fly in the Pacific and modern planes like the P51 or Dora and why should they go for SoW, if IL2 seems to be realistic enough and appears to have a larger community working on mods to make it even better? Just look at this board, how many people directly attack Oleg because he didn't fix XY while it was so little effort to do so! So the second direct effect it has for MG is to push the limits even further up. What that means in terms of delays and further anger of people using the mod or not, well, you know the comments as good as I do. Don't get me wrong, I don't think the mods are bad and neither are those working on them, but it's not as easy as to say: The mods are good work and they make IL2 better, so they're perfectly alright. It will always be a two-edged sword. :( |
BC ... you've gone a long way to a mack cheerleader. Why is it so hard to understand that Oleg can't and won't give them his blessing? Not going to happen so bringing up the point is just
a) pointless b) prone to bring up the old discussions again I don't think anyone here really believes that the macks are going to go away if they only pray enough, but these "Oleg please incorporate ..." posts aren't exactly helpful to board peace, either. They're just pointless. And, judging by the self-righteous attitude and the shoulder clapping I see in "The Dark Side Boards", I cannot help but agree with what proton45 said. There are enough folks over there who'd like to cultivate themselves a "Robin Hood" image and who consider Maddox Games part of the "evil big corporations" who dare to keep features from the "poor little flight simmer". :roll: |
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Falke::
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That's the image they cultivate Lexx - the "poor little fan" is nothing but the image of a victim that is forced to resort to "modding" because he's not getting stuff from the "big evil developer".
And don't generalize - I don't and won't ever use the macks. And I still consider myself an Il-2 fan ;) |
I think that these so called "mods" are just a mess to ruin a stable running sim. Some of them have a lot of work invested in them and I respect that, but from sim compatibility point of view, they are just a mess - that noone of the modders really knows what issue their mods cause in the internal code. From that point of view it is just naive to expect Oleg to include this in his sim. As with all mods, you end up more fiddling with them than playing the game...Just my opinion..
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[QUOTE=Bearcat;43751]The mods are not clandestine... they are being done in the open... and as I said.. there may be some not so good stuff in there.. but what I have seen and experienced has been well done and beneficial.. from the toned down dust to the toned down nav lights, the flyable AI AC... The way I see it.. if I could use Pe-8s to simulate B-17s in IL2... which we did.. then using B-25 cockpits for B-17s is not as much of a stretch... and while I still understand how many feel about the way the mods originally came about as I have said from day one.. and it has proven true. These mods are here.. and they aren't going anywhere.
Just for the record... I have tried the mods in case anyone failed to read between the lines.. and I am glad that I waited as long as I did.. I felt that I had to see how all this would pan out before i put my toe in that water... but I have sen no crocks, no fins floating in the water.... no little brown logs and no yellow water... so I jumped in and having tried them I have no regrets. I watched and read at the AAA site for months.. just to see where this was all going... and again.. as I said in this thread.. there has not been rampant cheating .. the sim is not "ruined" and frankly I think that the sim will actually benefit in the long run. There are still new folks coming to UBI every day. +1 I think, that this game should be opened for modding legally. It would be moneywise too! Lots of people would buy if they could add new maps, buildings, vechiles and yes, even planes to it. What about official "Mod addon" with maptools, 3d converter? Almost all the new games comes with somekind of possibility to add mods. It is not Filthy, it's progress. We need open conversation about adding new things to this best flightsim ever. We can make it even better. PS New maps looks great. Be sure |
csThor, as you are not the only FB fan, just be careful not to use sloganistic gamer webboard insults against non-modding FB fans who may enjoy mods made by modders.
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Your previous post could be read in a way that you consider people opposing modding as non-fans. ;)
But we both made our point. No need to dig deeper. |
Okay! No need to insult Oleg's "other" customers here. http://i35.photobucket.com/albums/d1...eys/thumbs.gif
Arrow:: Quote:
But you are right. You get what you pay for in time invested. Some are willing to spend the time tweaking to satisfy their historical interests, others are not. The tweaking required in this case is probably increased because of the unofficial or "hacked" nature of the modding methods. That, and the modding is still just starting out, in early discovery process so to speak. Having started out with Oleg's FB as my first modern (Windows) sim, I used to make fun of other sims that required players to "downloading half the internets" to tweak a computer game, until I started a modding project in another sim that no sim developer has ever covered, and I had to download half the internets. http://i35.photobucket.com/albums/d1...s/banghead.gif But its worth it to put it all together and create something never done before. |
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@ LEXX: I agreed with csThors posts, because it says a lot about what is currently going on: As you can see with Bearcats statements, peoples minds change. It's no longer good vs evil, the unspeakables against brown-noses and the reason why you get in trouble when posting links to the mods is not because the mods are damned, but because the initial crack was and is illegal. But while official sides remain silent, the so-called "brown-noses" made their decision or tend to test the mod sooner or later, the modding-community is still fighting loudly against windmills. And it IS just like csThor put it: This self-shoulder-padding of some people showing MG how easy it is to fix problems with IL2 (even on this board!) is just as misplaced as it is unfair. And this Rebellion against the evil Olegian Empire story is just ridiculous, sorry. I've been active in the F4-modding-community for a long time, now, and though the modders did an awesome job making the game much better as it initially was, the idea of making the job better than the original programmers did themselves was new to me until this modding-thing with IL2 arose. |
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I am just being a realist Thor... thats all. AS for the attitude of many on the AAA boards.. well I have to totally agree with you there Thor... and I told them as much when one of their members started talking about how dead the UBI forums were.. which they aren't... and then the whole litany of "the UBI noobs" "If Oleg gave us BoB it would be done" etc etc came out. Truth be told for all the trash they talk many of the members are just leeches.. they take take take and don't even support the site... which is a shame really. My posts on the issue were removed.. but I do agree that ther is an elitist mentality over there.. and of the over 10000 members I bet less than 1/10 is supporting the site either with work as in mods or $$$ in doantions to keep it running. |
I doubt Oleg would ever use any of the mods developed from AAA for il2,and thats fine with me,as I want Oleg to concentrate on SoW.il2 is dead to Oleg.
BC I agree with you about the lack of the donations there.Some of the most vocal on the site are the ones who give nothing. |
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Did you read where Oleg refering to SOW said, you want your Son to have along life. I don't think that Oleg views IL2 as dead, only views it as a child of his violated and mangled by some who are never happy, they always wanting more, and more |
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I feel ya Bearcat, but I don't think your reading what I'm really saying...your response doesn't address any of my concerns. My point is that many of the mods are far from perfect, and Oleg would end up spending a great deal of time making sure that everything was up to standard (and running smooth). Many people (over at AAA) have problems with the game running smoothly after they installing mods... My point is that people are tolerant of these hick-ups because they are dealing with "hack-mods", if they where made official people would not tolerate "hick-ups in game performance"... |
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Now considering what fuss was made about the 1cm larger bar on the 190, imagine what happens when people who don't know anything about the charm of Luke vs Darth Oleg have to install that patch in order to play with other people. Or take the pictures of the clouds posted above. People would whine because these are the same clouds, just blown up to the point where the minor texture problems become a big mess on the outer rims. Not even daring to speak of the effects on casting shadows on the land below in the right size, too, or the effect when tuning clouds to other types. |
I just had to reply
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A very dedicated fan and supporter of 1C. |
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I like some of the stuff I see too... But all the mods are available and people can add them to their hard drive if they want too...I just don't think that they have to be made into official updates. I think in the long run it would be creating far more work for Oleg and team then they need right now. If Oleg started including "the mods" in the official up-dates their would be no end to the requests he would start getting. "Oleg could you fix this unrealistic thing?" or "Oleg could you fix the 50cal's?" or "Oleg, so and so says its easy to fix the DM so you have to fix it...", ect... I want him to finish "BoB SoW"... |
Arrow::
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The modders can't technically do "better" than Oleg, especially with unsupported modding methods, but they create things Oleg never tried to, and so the modders are "better" at creating gaming content. Content creation is the general goal of independent 3rd Party modding. |
Arrow (again :) )::
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Reading between your lines -- If you are, in your mind, narrowing your point with respect to modding and anonymous public servers, but not telling us this, then we must find out before we can have a discussion (if this is the case). I can see how modding might hurt anonymous public servers, especially innocent Newbies to the sim before they find a private server. |
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You mean modding tools? That would be dreamy but then, honestly, Oleg needs BoB And Beyond more than bread and FB mods. Focus on the Beyond part. The faster Oleg pushes out BoB, the faster we get P-51Dora in Beyond.
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I guess I misunderstood... I thought that because you where responding to something I said, that in some way you where responding to something I wrote (?)... :) I guess you where reacting to the way I characterized the attitude/talk on the AAA forum (sorry but thats the attitude I see their a lot of the time)... I think that they are far more demanding and critical of Oleg and his team then they are of the people who contribute game modifications... |
I was really hoping to have a 1C answer by now. :\
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We are all 1C now http://i35.photobucket.com/albums/d1...Smileys/00.gif
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Remembering the times when one couldn't ask for a plane with good data info coverage, good pics, but if some detail was lacking it couldn't make in. |
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The silence should really be answer enough for now, as are the many people stating why it's impossible or at least highly doubtable, that Oleg would officially accept the mods or even officially support them with tools (that is really the most unlikely thing to happen in all this debate, IMHO) Let's also not forget that this choice is not up to Oleg alone, but also to 1C and UBI. And considering the history of Falcon4 I have absolutely no doubt, that they'll ever give their okay. |
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Dear All,
Regarding the MODS situation......I think that any slight problem with MODS is tolerated because they, as with Olegs updates to his game, were given freely...I don't think it is a case of the 'Robin Hood' syndrome. If I had to pay for them with my hard earned money, I would expect it to be virtually flawless. Also it has often been the case that people were required to make slight adjustments to get things to work and many of them were not exactly computer literate......let alone the question of language and being understood...(Thank god English is widely spoken otherwise I would be hopeless.)! Some of the work coming from the AAA site is incredible, and they do it for the sheer love of the Sim......something that perhaps is lost on those harbouring more corperate views. However, Oleg, whatever his personal views can never be seen to support hackers for obvious reasons. Best regards, Pike. |
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Almost all of the mods (with the exception of sound samples) are so far nothing more than retextures and tweaks to existing codes. MG would be quite within their rights to adjust their default settings to something similar without being seen to "adopt illegal hacks".
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Pointless discussion. No matter how often it is repeated.
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http://i35.photobucket.com/albums/d1.../Yak-25M-2.jpg http://i35.photobucket.com/albums/d1...r/img00007.jpg For me, the sticking point for The Sims seems to be restricting visually seen grafix to about 10km...except for terrain and in some cases clouds, the player only sees things inside a small "dogfight" radius. Now the DR does expand with sim era...a India/Pakistan sim would have a larger dogfight radius than a WW1 sim. |
What a bunch of whining cheaters <shakes head>
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Completely unnecessary comment.
Doesn't help anybody except your own post-count. |
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:arrow: spot on.... :arrow: |
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I read your words with big surprise, I was out of this forum due to a lot of work in other aeronautical areas, and when I come back interested in mods, I read this :) Soon, there will see some SCW related big surprise... I can't write more for the moment :) But no, it's not an SCW mod or new simulator. Just something different. :) For the moment, it is clear for me that I cannot use the sound mod for that surprise. What a pity :( |
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