The best (accidental) moves you can make... :)
 

This one's from my HSFX60 version... and it's with 'finger rudders' ;)

Lucky one. But I bet, the Spit got you anyway. :)

Generally such should be able by will in the game, but I never could snaproll the Ki-43 for example, like in this video ('1:40 and '2:11):

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-4N3YobtkB8

Stalls lets you imidiatly get into a violent spinning, no matter what. :(

This isn't 100% true. In Il-2 "Stall" warning message appears too late. You can stall without spinning, and no "Stall" message will ever appear.

However, the behavior is very weird around this area of the flight envelope, and the tendency to follow into a spin is very strong. Even with the ball centered perfectly, one wing will want to drop, and correcting with rudder sends the other wing down too quickly. And indeed, controllable snap rolls like in the video are impossible.

Nah!.. that plane just died in the end - maybe the pilot was injured, but I do notice a lot of AI blackouts occurring (the plane before this one) lately.

Maybe a correction to this might be to not let them do such violent moves when close to the ground, but more of a rolling over above a low plane while keeping advantage until the strike.
:)

I'm afraid they are very possible... and easy to implement once you know your plane.

If you're talking about the FW190 ball centering, then you are going to spin uncontrollably. The ball must be off-centre for a controlled snap-roll/spin.
;)

I would love to see a track of a snap roll in a Ki-43 as it appears in the video Caspar posted ;)

You can do it, but you need rudder pedals and quick reactions.

The basic move, is to simultaneously pull hard and kick rudder, and as the plane goes into the stall, push the stick and rudder into the opposite direction, and hold it there. The timing is critical such that the stick/rudder motion is seamless.

Also be aware of the torque and propwash. If you do the move into these forces, the move is more violent and chances of recovery are less.

;)

Ah!! found it... Maybe this online clip might come close ;)
This is full recovery within a 180 degree stall/spin/flip :grin: which possibly suggests that the Japanese aircraft are correctly modeled according to that film clip :!:
If I remember correctly, this clip was before TD got their hands on the code... ?

Not quite...try again with a Ki-43, starting straight and level. If you can make a complete snap roll like in the clip, ending on the same altitude, attitude, and heading that you started, I'll give you a virtual handshake.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MS12i...eature=related

0:36 and 0:45

This game seems to model it well:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=22QJ8lmqV-Q

And I'll make myself clear: Snap rolls are possible, but they are very ugly in Il-2. What you demonstrated in the first post was the "Il-2" snap roll. The plane's nose came up and it started wallowing about, out of control. A clean snap roll, like in the video is impossible in the game, which is what Caspar and myself are arguing.

S!

The 109 (G2 atleast) makes a relatively clean and controllable snap roll. Very quick reactions are needed of course. Left snap roll is done by pushing left pedal fully down, and pulling stick fully to rear right. And vice versa.

I once trained to make it at will... but in the heat of combat, not a chance :D .. More of an aerobatic trick for me :) ... Would be of course an effective maneuver in scissors etc... if I just could make it :)

I think, to would be a nice evasive maneuver, a half snaproll and then diving down like a split-S, as also seen in that video. Its the fastest way to lay your plan on the back. And from the sight of your opponent behind you, it brings you imidiatly out of the line of fire - contrary to a simple roll.

Would this be acceptable ?? :grin:
(Note: No rudder pedals)

Not bad, but compare it to the footage. That snap roll was slower, the aircraft was wallowing about the whole time, and it ended the maneuver much lower than when it started.

I'm sure you're a good sim-pilot, K_Freddie, but there's nothing for you to prove. There's no way anyone is going to pull off a proper snap roll in Il-2. The game just won't allow it, because it simplifies things too much.

As I mentioned, with rudder pedals (more precise control) one can get very close to that film clip.
:cool:

Yep. I think that's part of the reason that people complain about the FM of planes in the game which were known for their roll rate, such as the Fw-190 or the P-47.

Unless you have rudder pedals and a lot of practice flying them, you can never really get the most out of these planes, because you can never use the plane's roll rate to its fullest. I speak from (lack of) experience! :)

I'd ask the opinions of these guys first:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XjlAB...yer_detailpage


First, note slow snap roll and split-S by the flight at 0:33. Next, note the slow barrel rolls at 0:45. Next highlight is the 4-plane slow roll at 1:29. Then the snap roll at 1:39. Lots of very pretty, well-done snap rolls and slow barrel rolls starting at about 2:48 on the film, followed by an amazing two-plane end-over-end stall and recovery at 3:04. They have virtual flying skills which make me weep with envy.

Now, if the fighting Woodpeckers, or some of the other really dedicated IL2 virtual acrobatics squadrons, say you can't do some aerobatic maneuver in the game, I'll believe them. Otherwise, not so much . . .

An aileron roll and a snap roll are two totally different things. Everything you pointed out in the video is an aileron roll.

A snap roll involves a rapid pitch-up and copious input of rudder to force one wing into a stall. The asymmetric lift quickens the roll (hence "snap roll" - it happens in a snap).

An aileron roll, despite the name, involves all three control axes (ailerons, elevator, and rudder) in order to keep the airplane traveling at a constant altitude and heading. Aileron rolls are easy to perform, but VERY hard to do as well as in that video.

That flip in the P-38, though cool, has nothing to do with snap rolls.

But those guys are great pilots, yes. :grin: In fact, the best I've ever seen in Il-2, thanks for sharing!

Indeed, Luno is right, there are no snaprolls in that (otherwise impressive) vid.
Aileron- and barrel rolls are both quite easy to do in IL-2.

In the quest for 'snap roll' perfection, here's an improved version.
As I'm using a button for rudder pedals so there is a slight delay in a/c reaction which I tried to synchronise with the elevator.

This little roll does not deviate more than about 75ft. but with proper rudder pedals one can do this on the fly. I know, as I've done it a gazillion times in a FW with my pre-working rudder pedals ;)

Another thing to point out is that that video looks like it was taken at about 10000 ft altitude where the air is thinner (not much more than this as lack of oxygen will make the pilot 'happy'). So I set this test at 3000m with results getting really tight ;)
This about my 10th snap in the KI43 (never flown it before)

Done it... Not perfect (cannot expect it to be) but the Observer plane gave the impression that one lost a lot of height (as it follows you up and down) - not so much in this clip.

Who said anything was impossible with IL2 :-P

I've put these into video, as I'm not going to give away 'secrets' in the tracks. Not that it's a big secret though - practise a bit :)

Looking at the clip over and over again :grin:.. What comes to mind and it's always been there from what I can remember.

There is too much of a delay between stick/rudder input and a/c reaction (I use no filters and zulch else). I'm sure this reaction time was toned down by Oleg, due to the P51 (it won the war - you know) fanboys whinging about stalling so easy.

Maybe TD can correct this... nudge nudge ;) ;)

Another angle on the last video... not much to debate on the altitude thingy.
Maybe just the reaction time, but this applies to all aircraft, so make the argument null and void. :cool:

Have a look at that same video you're referencing - 02:15 -> 02:20
There's a different picture, matching the the last video I've produced ?

One thing about your reference is that we only see it when it's already into the flip... whereas this 02:15 vid we see it from the beginning - A different picture altogether
:!:

Only a Sim Pilot... Actually .. I have no pilot qualification.. period!
:)

My bad. Thanks for pointing it out.

Yeah, but it was too cool to NOT mention. :)