1C probably needs a kickstarter project?
 

the way it looks, we need to get 1C involved in a kickstarter project for the patch's...

http://www.kickstarter.com/

Some sort of kick, certainly. ;)

So far I've supported 3 Kickstarter projects (Double Fine Adventure, Wasteland 2, Shadowrun Returns) with various amounts of money, ranging from 15 to 50$. I've also supported CloD by buying the CE for ~83$.

I'm pretty much finished with supporting 1C/CloD, thank you.

How about a kickstart full stop, possibly look at developing a WWII flight sim, something revolutionary and years ahead of its time with ground breaking aircraft models with realistic FM/DM and landscape modelling??

Hold on, heard that someplace else, sorry..........:rolleyes:

perhaps some should check what 1C:Softclub in russia realy is...........

:D so true

You didn't get the message now did you?

didn't our initial purchase cover development?

We are over a year from initial release, I dont know how much our initial purchase will carry the devs...

It would be interesting if next game in the series was decided using Kickstarter or similar site. Players could decide which game to support and the one getting most money would be developed.

I think the only way kickstart funding would work in this case, is if they used the money to hire more experienced programmers to work on the code. Just throwing money at the current team wouldn't solve anything IMO.

Kickstarter is for new projects right? Maybe it needs a bumpstart? I've got some jump leads in my car :)

kickstarter for the sequel?

We did, it was called COD.

How much programming experience do you have?

None. Is that somehow relevant to the fact that this team has been struggling with the code for the last 14 months? No...it isn't. Any other pointless questions?

Its 16 months.

Wow 16 months has it really been that long. :cool:

That or just switch to the RoF way of doing things..

The downside being you will end up spending about $200 for a game.. (assuming you buy most of the options)..

The upside being requring users to spend more than $50 on a game has a a kid-o flitering effect.. In that alot of kids will not be able to convice their parents to pay for a $200 game..

The assumption in both cases that the 'options' are only enabled via the 777 servers which in turn makes it much harder for people to pirate the game and options.

This scenario only works if you have a playable sim. ROF had a rough start, but the patches and work they have done actually fixed bugs and made the engine pretty solid. COD is still in the starting blocks with patches that haven't really fixed much of anything. I couldn't see giving 1C anymore money for planes with their current skill at fixing the game.

It's relevant to the amount of knowledge that you have about the subject you are commenting on. In short, when you talk about programming, you have no idea what you are talking about.

Agree

That would be a great idea. Instead of buying blind and then complaining about unfinished products, we could be given a choice of 2-3 theaters for future expansions, all set up as separate kickstarter projects. The one that gets the most money also gets the money collected for the remaining projects and gets developed.

This way we get to influence what gets developed next and the developers are ahead of the curve financially, so they can sit down and do things properly instead of cutting corners.


On another note...

It's like 3 posts before any new thread takes a turn for the usual kind of discussions. This is a thread about discussing the possibility of a kickstarter funded scenario and of course, people will say their piece of whether they would support it or not. That doesn't mean they shouldn't mind their tone. Irony leads to come backs from another user with a different opinion, which leads to flame wars, which leads to me deleting posts.

Examples (because apparently i need to spell it out despite the fact that we're mostly adults here)

1) "I believe a kickstarter project wouldn't help because according to Blacksix, the team is looking to hire new programmers and can't find enough who have suitable experience. Also, i wouldn't support this project because i am not satisfied with the rate things have been progressing until now."

This kind of comment is fine. It's a personal opinion, presented politely and it's also backed up with some official data. Of course, you don't need to have official sources to have an opinion, it just adds more weight to your argument.

Someone posting like this will also get help from me if he/she is attacked, despite the fact that it's an unfavorable opinion towards 1c and CoD. Being a moderator is not about "cracking down on dissenters", it's about ensuring everyone can have their say.

2) "I wouldn't waste any more on 1C, they'll probably use it to buy vodka. They can't fix anything anyway."

This kind of comment is nothing but a rant with the potential to invite a similarly worded counter-argument from a person with an opposing opinion. It's not ok and it will get the person posting it in trouble.

Funny how both comments say the same thing but one is somewhat insulting and the other is not, right?

If we do the non-insulting part everything will be fine. Let's use our freedom of speech to present our opinions in a respectable manner, not to drown out the freedom of speech of others. Because frankly, this is what's been happening here for quite some time.

When every single thread is moved towards the same topic after less than a page, then you are interfering with the ability of other users to discuss other topics and you are essentially violating their freedom of speech. And this goes both for the so called "whiners" and the "fanboys", whose endless "forum dogfights" are messing with the ability of others to use the forum.

Well, in my eyes all users are equal, so i'm having none of that. If the thread is mucked up and the usual suspects start being disrespectful to each other, heads will roll.

It's been a long time coming and people must learn that in an open discussion forum it's ok to disagree with each other and not waste their energy trying to convince "opponents" through insults and irony, or purposefully drowning out the voices of those who don't agree with them.

Stay within topic, stay respectful and to those that will, thank you for your cooperation gentlemen and carry on, regardless of your opinions. To those that won't, it's your posting privileges on the line, not mine.

Nothing personal, just doing what i'm supposed to be doing ;)

Playing a game offers absolutely no insight into how it was programmed. It's even worse if what you're playing is a beta. A beta is intended to find problems. It's likely that they put trap code in place which may make the game run worse, but gathers data that they can use to find certain problems. Issues like that are why it's always risky giving the clueless access to beta versions of software.

Blackdog,

I made a relevant opinion to the OP with my first post, and I get harassed by the usual suspect(s) and am forced down the path you are talking about. Can you do something about these flagrant harassers?

I would be more than happy to have the original version back on my system, with working AI commands.

I have heard of having your cake and eating it too..

But this is one takes the cake!

First sentance you say it only works if you have a playable sim..
Next sentance you admit RoF was not a playable sim at the start..

So which is it?

Because you can not have it both ways!

Hmmm....I guess they shouldn't have boxed it up and put it on a shelf for $50 dollars then? If the box stated I was going to be a beta tester for the next couple of years, I would have passed.

Per Blackdog's post, this is the last I'm going to say about your off topic BS. Do you have any thoughts on the original post about the kickstart idea?

Maybe you need to quote my post instead of making up stuff? I said "ROF had a rough start". I didn't say it was not playable. Take ROF 16 months after release, and look at COD 16 months later....there really is no comparison.

Forced down the path?

Really?

Well let's take a 'look' at your FIRST post in this thread, i.e.

Now lets take a look at Blackdog's example of a 'bad' post

Maybe it is just me..

But your FIRST post..

You know the post you provided before anyone could have forced you to say what you said

Sure sounds alot like Blackdog's examle of a bad post

Just did! ;)

All you had to do was wait for the reviews. Why did you buy it before it was reviewed?

Actually, it looks like he did a pretty good job detailing exactly how your post is the sort that is not welcome.

And neither is yours David, let's be honest here.

We've got the same handful of people battling it out among themselves.

Maybe i'll make a separate forum section and change some people's posting privileges so they can only post there and have at it against each other all day long, it's not like they deviate from that for any substantial length of time. Three off-topic or trolling infractions and then it's off to the naughty kids corner, that kind of stuff :-P

I just feel that it's stupid having to behave this way to grown up people so all of you, please, throw me a bone here: everyone who is tangled into that finger-pointing discussion go back and delete your posts, everyone who is posting in an inflammatory manner go back and edit/re-word your posts to something that's stating your opinion and just that, no assumptions or bait. Thank you.

P.S. Please don't send my any PMs to point out that "it's the other guy's fault/he started it". I think we're all of a sufficient age to use the ignore list and report post functions provided by the forum. I'm not going to take anybody's side in this.

Blackdog just how many times have you had to post that?

Its time to get the dunce hat out and send them all to the naughty corner!

http://viewfromthedolequeue.files.wo.../dunce_cap.jpg

Have to say that given the age of some of these posters this picture might actually be more appropriate, pity they can't act there age :(

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-qm9g4GK-Hw...1600/dunce.jpg

As My mom always said, "if you have nothing nice to say, don't say it at all. keep it to your self." you guys need to really check your ego's at the door.

I think they'd get a "kick-start" if they released the long-promised SDK's & got talented individuals in the game's community to contribute content & functionality for free.

I don't think so. Content is one thing, this is quite another matter....

http://www.abload.de/img/2012-06-29_00004juk4w.jpg

Can you imagine the rage of those who kickstarted for say, Spanish Civil War 1936, and get Korea '52 instead? I would be angry :grin:. Better to leave the money (for the so far 'unsuccessfuls') in escrow until either enough have been convinced to participate or it is abandoned altogether. And don't let the community decide between two or three choices (I can hear the battle cry "Why is <insert SomeObscureCorner> '43 not up for choice!"), but collect for all and everything - if not enough money is gathered everybody can see the justification of not developing that theater.

Can you guys please just permaban David and his merry men?

None of them have ever contributed anything of value.

Age has nothing to do with maturity, this forum has clearly proved that over and over and over again. Please, Blackdog, can't you create a sub-forum where these people ("both sides") can duke it out on their own and measure their genitals there?

Back on topic, yes, kick-starter is a good idea for the IL-2 series. Unfortunately though, MG is not an independent studio. They'd have to break free from the evil clutches of 1c first.

That is the brutal and honest truth.

Wasn't there a quote from BlackSix basically stating that they don't have anyone on staff who understand both aerodynamics and programming?

It's just a brutal oppinion.

From someone who knows absolutely nothing about the subject.

Doesn`t keep them from posting, obviously.

My opinion is that Clod has been kicked into the dark gloomy basement of 1cpublishing. They are only allowed a fraction of what little resources they may have to patch what we bought only because of possible returns on the expansion which is obviously where the bulk of the work is being done since we get plenty of "new" screenshots.

The thing is if we do not show support for the expansion likely some money grubber will pull the plug on the whole thing.

So lets all put on our best fake smiles and post away on how we all plan on buying 10 copies of the expansion..........

But really I hope they can fix it up.

Look at corporate info a bunch of sub par titles mentioned and nothing on this.

http://www.1cpublishing.eu/corporate

Wish more people got this, that probably the root of most of our angst rests on the publishers shoulders, the fact that the devs take the brunt of it is a shame if you really think about it...

Really we should take this campaign to the source, they have facebook dont they? We should have a IL2 COD discussion on their wall, they would love to see David and Furbs and all duke it out on the FB page wouldnt they :)

I can only guess the devs are running on min resources right now...

You know, this attitude is similar to the attitude that allowed American car companies to remain solvent, despite producing such awful vehicles for so many years.

People there would "Buy American" despite the vehicles being inferior in almost every aspect to foreign offerings. The companies had an artificially competition-free market, and thus no incentive to get better, and so they continued to make lousy vehicles.

Then, when the "Buy American" garbage finally died out, the car companies realized just how much catch-up ball they had to play which eventually resulted in them going bankrupt a few years ago.

--

It's the natural order of things. If a company can't produce a quality product now, and has no real competition (sound familiar?) then we should not expect that company to magically get better.

When you promise to buy the sequel no matter what, before it's even been released and before anything other than screenshots have been posted online, then you are perpetuating a destructive cycle.

Look what happened with the current debacle: Lots of fancy screenshots got posted years and years before BoB was released, and have a look at the state it's in.

The Red Orchestra series are actually quite good, and have sold many many copies in the English-speaking markets.