Blacksix can you explain!
 

We have an overwhelming majority of customers (please check the recent poll) here who think DirectX9 should not interfere or delay regular and much needed patching. Some people think this feature should not be supported at all as it is outdated! Why developers are not considering customer whishes and requirements?

The recent poll was bias and loaded to elicit the creators desired out come. People like myself could not participate because of its use of compound criteria.

There are a lot of sites on the internet about creating unbiased surveys and questionnaires

The polls creator should visit a few of those and make a new poll that could be used to accurately gauge the community’s wishes.

Well mainly it's because your a clueless cry baby, at the end of the day the box says dx9 xp sp3 and they SHOULD make it work on a xp system.

Now of we are talking about the expansion, then yes it should not support dx9.

With all due respect, the question is not addressed to you! However 300 people voted ...that is an indication that is nothing fundamentally wrong with the Poll! If you do not want to vote this is ok , it`s your choice!

1) DX9 is in the system requirements, we have to support it.
2) DX9 is very important for our next project, we want to make it a popular game, what will work on maximum variants of PC. Now we are fixing and testing DX9 on CloD engine.
3) The sample of votes from the forum is not representative

...clueless cry baby!? do you know me? do you know anything about me? who I am? my qualifications, background, experience etc...no you don`t! so please take your insults somewhere else if you do not have something positive to say!

Well then OK. A week or more won´t make a big difference. Thx for your quick reply. Greetz, Allons!

Thank you for your reply... however I find it quite extrodinary that you think the "sample of votes are not relevant". If you have to fix DirectX 9 so be it but you should not delay the patch by doing so. In some previos update you where talking about a few days for optimising the clouds, another few for the grass etc... this has not materialised, isn`t it ?

MMO? DirectX 9? Isn't the XBox DirectX 9?????

Out there I know, but, just a thought.

Aer9o,

As they say, Lies, Damn Lies and statistics!

A properly worded, unbiased poll is a thing of beauty!

Others are not!

Cheers!

.
DX9, DX10 or DX11 is the evolution of part of the graphic and system software supporting the hardware it is important like food supporting a living organism. But the one with a big DX11 capable system wait for a long time for something they do not need. Like rich peoples with big cars like to go fast and do not want this little car that does not go fast on the fast roads. Be patient a poll is only a opinion not a law.

Will there be an update tomorrow? Not an update to an update

It will be a beta patch again as I know. And it's our choise what we want to test at present. All, what was promised, will be in the final patch.

So clearly ask for a patch mate ! :) as for update it is already known : "We're working hard.. blabla... Great improvements... blabla...".
Do not ask for an update that doesn't inform you more than the last 6 months... save time, nerves...

When only 300 people vote in a total of 2629 views, there is definitely something wrong with the poll. You need maybe 10-20 minutes to google and read the most introductory theory on statistics to realize that such a poll is not representative of public opinion within this forum alone, much less the entire community.

Also, out of those 300 people that voted, i saw quite a few saying that "i voted no DX9 only because i don't use it and there is no other option in the poll". Which means that even among those 300, not all are totally against it.

See, when you're a moderator you pretty much have to read everything, so it's hard to miss the "evidence" :-P

Finally, effects are done entirely in DX9 and that's why there are no hit flashes and mini-explosions in the DX10-only test patch.

No DX9 = no effects = probably more patch delays to make the effects from scratch in DX10. Go ahead and convince them to remove DX9 if you want the patch to take longer, i'm sure nobody in the community will have a problem with that :-P , not to mention my job will become much harder as a result.

Thank you for that B6! honestly. I hope everybody reads that line over and over and over again so they will finally understand that the few hundred hardcore simming madmen in this insane asylum (forum) are NOT representative of the broader customer base, past future or present.

The only thing that indicates is that there were 300 people in here who wasted their time responding to a pointless, and flawed, poll.

First: An online forum with a limited participation in some thread a random user opened is by no means any more important than the notorious bag of rice falling over somewhere in China.

Second: Your posting style comes across as aggressive, smacks of way too much (falsely) self-appointed importance and makes false claims of speaking for "the community" to boot. Little wonder that people either ignore you, laugh about you or feel irritated. If you stopped posting as if you had any say (which you don't, you don't speak for anyone but yourself) and dropped the drama in your texts you might actually be taken seriously.

Three: You come across like a petulant child who didn't get the sweets he wanted and is now throwing a tantrum to get what he wants. Well, here's news for you: If you want to be seen as an adult, then post like an adult.

:roll:

You have to remember only 1-5% of the people who purchase this sim actually check out the forums. We are the HARDCORE fans. We all have super fast computers and lots of cool joysticks because we are the hardcore simmers.

But what about the other 95% who buy this sim, fly it offline, and never touch the forums? Or all the XP users in Russia who this sim is primarily aimed for since 1C is a Russian company? IL2 series is HUGE over there. You can't alienate them.

If they designed this sim just for the couple hundred of people like us who lurk on these forums we wouldn't even have these forums since this project would of long been dead most likely.

You certainly have plenty of time to write all this long essays of stupid criticism! Just look at the facts and figures, what we have paid for, what has been prommised and what has been delivered so far! I am stunned by the bullshit in your " wise and adult like post"!

I can see your point,... fair comment!

The only questions is:
Will DX9 GPUs ever deliver enough performance for whatever is to come?

Or is it just because of OS compatibility?

Are you talking to yourself?

Again: are you talking to yourself?

Most possibly: OS compatibility.

You can use a modern GPU with DirectX without any problem if there are drivers available.
For example the last Ati 12.4
Windows XP support for the AMD Radeon HD 7900 Series, AMD Radeon HD 7800, and AMD Radeon HD 7700 Series

In addition to Windows 7 and Windows Vista support, Catalyst 12.4 now also introduces Windows XP (64-bit/32-bit) support for the AMD Radeon HD 7900, AMD Radeon HD 7800, and AMD Radeon HD 7700 Series

So to use a old Operating system != old Hardware.

...good luck to you, maybe is this Friday, next one or next year, there are people like you who encourage unfinished products like this one to be flogged out to customers!

Just to stop this ridiculus and stupid discusion:

IT WAS WRITTEN ON THE BOX SO IT MUST BE SUPPORTED!!!

and since BoM uses the same engine it will support DX9 too.

If you don't like it then pay 1C all the money that they will lose to all the lawyer and people who charge them for not supporting DX9 in CloD!

!!!!!End of discusion!!!!!:evil:

Really? ;)
I am aware of that fact.
It was more about the performance difference between:
DX9OS/DX10+GPU vs DX10+OS/DX10+GPU


edit:
Makes me wonder why nobody sued them for delivering an unfinished product. Your argument is void. ;)

Guys, 1 simple thought:

If they have to support DX9 in this engine, wouldn'it be complete nonsense to drop that in the next sequel?
That would be throwing away work that is already done, resulting only in a smaler customer-base.

What is the downside of keeping DX9 if they have to support it in clod anyway?

Which is exactly why B6 just posted that it will be supported in the expansion ;)

It could:
- limit you
- result in additional costs(if, f.i. some bugs were DX9 related)

So tomorrow we will see next beta patch or again only promises and sentence with very soon and sorry m8s but we work on hard?

Leave this Dx9 for final patch, dont need now, only, clouds, ai, comms, some of bugs from bugtrucker.

But the next beta is for DX9 bug killing.

And as mentioned they can't drop DX9 because it is written on the Box.

Simple facts.

In fact Kodoss, your facts are so simple, some people can't even comprehend them. Stop writing facts and truths here, can't you understand people want other reasons for bashing this product? reasons that suits them.

On the plus side, BlackSix can now speak fluent English when talking about DX9 and Clod support :)

+1

But we will never get the final patch if they dont test DX9, so you just are not getting it... they need to test DX9. So let it go....

• First there were people crying over the 10 bucks they paid and saying the box art didn't reflect the real content. I can understand this.
• Now they cry over the developers trying to provide something that's shown on the box art. That however is just insane.

How can they leave dx9 for the final patch? It needs to be tested as well. Also it's eventually required for engine license contracts. You guys not only don't have a development background but also not even common sense.

Either you could help with testing if you're so eager to see it getting done (even if it means running the game in dx9) or just wait one week longer. Hell, it's summer. Go out and do something damnit.

He DID NOT say "not relevant" -

He said, "not representative " - a VERY big difference.

He is correct, your wording of the poll and sampling group do not represent the greater market. Your sampling and wording is not congruent with sampling techniques.

Just out of curiosity, why was fully supporting DX9 not an important issue from day 1? For the last year we have not heard squat about this, now, a year later, it's so important that they are holding back other fixes until they get it ironed out? Smells a little fishy to me....

My guess is somebody nailed a dead fish under your nose because everything smells fishy to you.

Well COD is a fish you muppet ;) :P

Care to explain why they haven't cared about supporting DX9 until now then? They have released patches over the last year and not cared about DX9, virtually no complaints over the last year on the forums about not supporting DX9, but now it's "it says so on the box so we have to". Yeah right.

Instead of acting like a jackwad, how about doing some explaining?

Well they have mentioned dx9 for a few months iirc, they were working on dx10 for the patch that brought the new engine to the table now they need to redo the dx9 for that graphic engine....

Come on guys, stop with the bulls#$t of "They will fix it because is in the box" ..... they will fix it because they are thinking in the MMO future project, that´s all, they are thinking in $ , forget about the "meet their obligations" (of the box).
CLOD AND US, ARE GUINEA PIGS FOR THEIR MMO PROJECT, face it.

It's time to dust off the old copy of "Chuck Yeager Air Combat"....plug in the old 386DX40 and load DOS 6.22.

Does anybody else remember?
Games sold, no patches offered or necessary?
No internet. You ran the content you bought.

There is no/know excuse for waiting 8+ months for a "steam" downloadable
patch for this game. None.

This DX9 thingy is just smoke.
catito14 has it nailed.

This. You nailed it....and that's exactly where I was going with this. It's kinda funny that as soon as we catch wind about the MMO, they announce they have to support DX9 "cause it says so on the box" even though they haven't cared about it for the last year.

An MMO means reaching a broader audience
A broader audience means more casual
More casual means lower end computers
It all adds up to DX9 support.

We are just beta testers for the MMO engine that has Luthier and 1C seeing dollar signs as they try to get in on the MMO craze

Wow...keyboard heroism at it's finest.

'$' is the reason most of us get up in the morning, nothing to do with going out into the wide world and making everybody else happy, either way you just agreed they'd fix COD so what difference does it make?

Of course, but you should forget about the "bugtracker", forget about the FM, forget about new missions/campaings, etc .... their priority will not be the bugs reported by us to fix CloD .... their priority will be fix the bugs that we will report, if that bugs are critical for the development of their MMO.

The self-righteousness of some posters here makes me want to wash my hands every time I visit this place here. Sad, extremely sad ... :roll:

Sadly, i think its true...

+1

Wow guys, just wow.

Aer9o, I must say that the way I perceive some of your posts you come across as a self-appointed spokesperson for the general customers. I hope you realize that it's just as rude as taking home a teamsport trophy and adding it to your personal collection. Or ordering dinner in a restaurant on behalf of all of your friends, choosing your favourite dishes, and demanding they pay for it.

It just doesn't work very well. That's my honest feedback to you.

Besides that, ANYTHING other than what Blacksix or Luthier says is pure speculation. For all we know they could be releasing a Naval Warfare sim featuring aliens and gorillas.

I don't know much about laws regarding video-games etc, but I think as long as the game states DX9 is a minimum requirement, any customer that cannot get the game to work because they don't have a >DX9 version is entitled a full refund. Now if that actually happened it would be groundbreaking for this forum, because it would be the very most backed up and valid complaint ever.

I can't imagine the shockwave of destruction for 1C if they pulled a stunt like that.

Also like others have stated, the DX9 effects have to be re-written for DX10 and that might be a good thing. Perhaps we can finally get rid of the dust/smoke FPS drop this game is plagued with. Either way I don't mind waiting for it, mainly because I do other things and play other games. In my signature are a few, but I can really recommend trying falcon BMS. You basically learn to fly and fight with the F-16. You'll surely be occupied until the next patch is released, and you can even check in here inbetween to catch up on progress.

I also enjoy some ArmA 2, RoF, Natural Selection 2, Skyrim, Empire Total War and occasional BF3. Most of those games are at bargain price and will keep you happy while waiting for the patch :) Since CoD is the best WW2 Flight sim at the moment we have no choice but wait and show our support, or else this genre will die eventually. If 1C fails, maybe other developers will look at them and think that flight sims are only dry wells, slowly being forgotten by the general gaming society.

Just my thoughts..

I don't see you disputing what was said though. I see you also dirtied your hands enough to post in this thread so.....

Forget about the FM? so why apparently are we getting revised FM's based on community input? the 100 octane issue was in the bugtracker and it seems the issue is being dealt with, the rest is just your oppinion and based on nothing more than speculation.

There's no excuse for the relentless complaining from you, either. If you're not happy with the game, go away. And yet, here you are...

Not sure I agree with this. Some of the people on this board appear to get up in the morning so they can come in here and complain.

Guys, please relax the tone a bit. It's perfectly ok to disagree, but there's no reason to start insulting each other.

Actually that is a valid question and we would need a separate topic to address it. Think like "what can be done to ensure DX9 GPUs give adequate performance" sort of stuff. It might mean a degradation of visual quality for example, or more comprehensive options so that each user can choose what kind of detail to lower.

Let's be honest here, we don't expect the sim to run maxed out on DX9 hardware. I think most people are trying to say that since there are customers who bought it based on the published system requirements, the sim should simply be working for them.

Working doesn't mean "120 FPS all maxed out". It means a steady 25-30 FPS at a reasonable level of visual detail that is the best compromise between getting enough performance and being able to perceive the virtual world around you without having a disadvantage against other players.

That's all really. Well, at least in my humble opinion ;)


Ok, i lol'ed :-P

On a serious note, i also don't get why pushing an MMO out the door is so bad?
Suppose it's something like WoP, then it will not only attract more people to the genre, it will also make it possible to get cash from a wider market, through a game that is not as difficult to model: just take CoD, keep the visuals, take out the difficult stuff, release for the sim-light market.

Most of the stuff they need is already available, what they'd have to code is the MMO campaign logic. Which 1) will probably be done by different people anyway than the ones who are doing the current performance fixes and 2) it will also benefit us because we could use the same dynamic multiplayer features on our full difficulty version of the sim.

Then those funds could be used to hire new people, so that our hardcore part of the sim gets finished faster. If they can steadily milk an MMO cash cow with a sim-light version of CoD that every kid will play on their lower end PCs and maybe even Xbox, you won't have to pay more to accelerate development of the main sim platform, neither will you have to buy flyable separately. Is that bad? Because a lot of people act like it is.


If the dev team was thinking like some people here do, Luthier would walk into the office and announce:
"We have an unfinished product and lower funds than the rest of the industry, making our progress slow. But we don't want new customers to fund and accelerate this progress, because we are hardcore like our hardcore fans. We'd rather be limited this way and take longer to finish it." :-P


Seriously, for all the hurry behind getting the sim fixed, some of the suggestions we see getting flaunted are working towards completely opposite results. The situation is what it is. If you get stubborn about it just to be stubborn you are just advocating a delay of the improvements we all want.

There's not enough manpower and funds to keep this sim afloat simply by catering to us few dozen maniacs here and that's not something that will change just by snapping our fingers. If anyone has a better way, by all means suggest one. But for the most part, all i hear is "do it this way and do it fast, even if the way i suggest ends up being slower". It doesn't make any sense at all and i'm not angry at anyone suggesting it, i'm just genuinely and utterly confused :confused:

just my thoughts

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z7BuQFUhsRM

Yup, just as yours ... oh no, true, you still believe in a company that has failed in its promises from the release of the simulator ... i think you live in a fairy tale, mate ...

So do you, apparently. Otherwise you are just trolling.

Welcome back from your vacation David! Not sure where you were for the last 20 days but I was wondering....any chance you can go back?

...don`t worry I will not say anything anymore...good luck waiting for the patch mate...hope it comes soon!...say?... 2 weeks!?;)

Perhaps someone can help me out here? Some lower end cards are only capable of running DX9 because of their limited design. However a card that can run DX10 or/and 11 can run DX9 very well. The developers are committed to getting DX9 working properly. Now, is this because they want DX9 only card owners to be able to run the game or is it because an important part of the game code is written for DX9 and it is too difficult or time consuming to rewrite this code as DX10?

Am I right in thinking that some of the game code is written as DX10 anyway and would this mean a DX9 user would have problems even if the DX9 parts were fully sorted. Dose this mean that all code in the game that takes advantage of DX10 card capabilities has to be duplicated as DX9 or is it just a fact of life that DX9 users will never be able to use CloD fully despite the developers best efforts?

fairytales are much nicer places that pits of despair and cynicism.

What annoys most people is what has already been discussed many times here before and that's the weekly updates that never seem to come to fruition. I am still waiting for the grass and clouds to be fixed weeks after been told they would take a few days to fix. People just get fed up of been told that the patch will be released in a few days and then a week later that they have decided not to release it because of blah and blah. This isn't the first time this has happened and I have learnt to come to the forum just to check if there's a patch. I just take the update section with a pinch of salt because it's never seems to be accurate enough.

How can anyone still believe the "graphics rewrite, DX10, DX9 betas" load of dangles is beyond me.

18 months is soon upon us.

Why are you still here?

See what I mean....much nicer than this....

http://invisionart.jalbum.net/Childr...%20despair.jpg

Given the fact we have ZERO alternatives on the market I'm more than happy to push over my bucks(and bugs) to eventually receive a working game.

If you dont like it, feel free to start your own company and start coding, the earlier the better, you still can exploit the problems 1c is currently facing. :-)

I have too on the box : the best sim ever :grin: . So... ?

Error..
Error..
Error..

Bingo..
Bingo..
Bingo..

Are You kiding? 3000 views not viewers. Think the first.
Is it possible than one viewer check this subject 10-15 times and recive plus 15 views...? No comments.

nope

It would not matter if every person on this forum voted in the poll. It's still not representative of everyone who owns the game.

Exactly why I didn't vote myself.

"No I do not and I don`t think it should be supported at this stage anymore"

Yes to the first bit. Indifferent to the second - happy to leave it to the devs as they're probably best placed to judge. But don't like having words placed in my mouth so left it alone.

Who expects the final patch? All we want is some stable game with some stable servers. Being the patches alpha beta gamma delta, steam or nonsteam, main thing is the game becomes better all the way and the bugtracker gets worked on step by step. All this "we have to do this and that to get a stable patch" is not understandable as they have proven they can release interim patches that work for us. NOT relasing them indicates (to me) that the whole stuff is not even ready for an interim patch. Its not letting something "simmer a little longer", its dealing with explosions in the kitchen and "cooks" with burning helmets :grin:

I didn't vote because the decision to support DX9 is for the devs to make. They consider it both worthwhile and necessary and I accept that. As someone with XP and Win7 on my HD I will be interested to see how well the title performs on both OS's.

I was originally on XP when CloD was first released and upgraded because it was generally stated that CloD ran better on Win7 with DX10. If it had worked on XP I am not sure I would have upgraded as CloD is the only title I have on my Win 7/64 partition.

YoYo, I respect your opinions, and often I agree with them but in this case you're plain wrong. Yes threads can be inflated by multiple views by members who don't post or who post once and view multiple times, but in this case it wasn't necessary to view more than once. The poll is so fundamentally biased to one point of view that it is essentially useless. I myself didn't vote for that reason, and neither did I post. I account for two views on that poll, and have no desire to read it again.
As Blacksix has repeated on several occasions dx9 will be supported no matter we think about the logic of it. There are many valid points of discussion with regard to ClOD but this isn't one of them. The devs are commited to supporting DX9, end of discussion, whether we like it or not.
Boko

Wow, what a bunch of whining little bitches. The whole lot of you. Get a bloody life.

Bomber fix!
 

For the love of Kurt Tank, just fix my bombers:-P

+1

Amen!

And this is what I can't understand: They have many problems that are not grafics engine related. Why is no one working on the radio comms or the bombing sights? Surely that's not the expertise of the grafics guy(s)? :confused:

One could think that MG has just one guy left to work on the engine. :rolleyes:

Everything in your first post says that Krupi was right on the money.

No he was not, and he is got no right what so ever to insult me. My first post was a question to the devs not to all of you and your stupid and various insults! The question was based on a poll and the figures associated with it! Please note nearly 300 members voted!... they can`t be all "clueless cry babies"...isn`t it?

Your missing the fact that 15% still use it. :grin:

Isn't "explane" an entirely different sim?

...:)sorry spelling mistake!

I thought you did it purposely and thought it was clever. :)
You shouldn't have said anything.

Stop talking out of your arse, please! Thanks in advance.
First of all i don't really care if the Soviets release the patch this year or in 25 years, i'm done with it.
But what i don't like is 12 year old plonkers with an shitty attitude like yours. That has nothing to do with CloD it has to do with the fact that you are an annoying idiot!