making CloD a success
 

we REALLY need a place to call home.I just want Cliffs of Dover to be as great as il2 was and or still is.Most of you know that I am "Hyperlobby" Staff member and have been there many years.I have enjoyed thousands of hours flying and chatting with friends and sharing Ideas.I think its around 10 years for me of friends that have come and gone.Im sure everyone here has a few they remember.Some might say its time to move on.But without a feature or program such as Hyperlobby Cliffs of Dover will NEVER be as good.ONLY because we need a "Home base" to gather and share ideas in REAL time.So much more can be accomplished if we had a meeting or gathering place in much quicker time.Even the "devs" would get more done.Hyperlobby is capable of EVERYTHING needed and ready and waiting.How can anyone even recruit? or troubleshoot in REAL time?

ALL in ALL I dont care where we go but we need a place to meet with friends and that to me is what made il2 series what it is.THIS community and the friends that were made over the years without it.Dover will never add up.
With ALL these great minds in here somebody do something.

BH_woodstock
HYPER/STAFF

amd dual core 5400+
6gb ram
gtx460
trackir
ms sw ff2

Hyperlobby?

Never heard of it! ;)

OTHER THAN a global chat, what does hyperlobby do that Steam doesnt? Nothing that I can think of.

On top of this, Hyperlobby is poorly-designed: it doesn't show the player counts unless you join through hyperlobby. Seems like a fundamentally-flawed piece of software to me. I tolerated using it when Forgotten Battles was around because the ubi.com lobby was even worse.

I have some fond memories of HL but it's just not a very good program, and if steam had a global chat, it would be better in almost every way.

I'm one of those that loved HL. The greatest thing about it was not only the live chat feature, but the fact that the program took up very little space on your desktop. You could leave it running and join a game after you found one interesting. Or you could simply do what you are doing on your pc (surfing the web, youtube, etc.) and also be able to pay attention to HL as well.

Woodstock,

We'd love to include HL in our server commander to make it all stream as one. Then we'd be using it right now. But from what Colander has said, I believe he needs to source code. If not, we'll have to wait for the game to get proper dedi files (not connect like a client) so the server can stay up all the time. If we could code it in, we would use HL as we wouldn't have to babysit it. Just an idea.

does not have to be hyperlobby. ANY program would be fine.tell me how you can recruit? or even troubleshoot with MANY people at one time? IN REAL TIME.are you happy with checking a forum every 5 minutes to see if anyone has replied?What made il2 a success was the commnunity.NOT the program.

i never really cared for steam much.If i didnt need it for Dover i would not have it installed.As for a global chat? THAT is exactly what i am talking about.

Hyperlobby is designed to close when all clients are launched by the host ibn Coop mode, in DF mode you select a server and join from a list.

It remains idle until you close the mission and everyone reconnects to the Hyperlobby automatically.

The purpose of HL is to have a place to fly from with a community spirit.

For many casual pilots this isn't a requirement but for squads and CooP pilots its essential.

CoD offers dogfight (MDS) type of gaming at the moment so its fragmented the community in as much as pilots in IL2 1946 are not moving over because there's no CooP mode or online war scenarios as they have been used to for the last 10 years.

Fundamentally Hyperlobby has been the place to meet other squads and organize CooP & online wars for a long time and to find CoD has no such function only Dogfight server mode its a big drawback.

Too many CoD is just a slightly interesting game due to the fact there's no CooP gui, in fact personally if it remains so I wont be flying it and will stay with IL2 1946, and many others feel the same too.

Ok enough of the "spirit" thing and back to the chat thing.

Its purpose is for everyone to talk to each other and share information and have some fun !!!!

Having it running in the back ground isn't necessary to be honest as I think Woodstocks intention was to create more of a community with CoD as we have with Il2 1946.

:)

We play coops every single night. They are very dynamic as well ;)

Im sorry Bliss but unless you have flown IL2 1946 CooP missions from the Hyperlobby it will never make sense to anyone.



.

We've been through this Alpha. I've flown plenty of em. I've used HL for years. If you read what I said (what you even quoted) you'd see why I loved HL.

But the real war never started at the same time, both sides never knew exactly where the other team was. That's what happens when you start a COOP. You fly and meet in the middle. A dynamic setting is one in which anything can happen at any time. We fly coops inside of this type of situation on coms on a daily basis.

I'm confident that the ability to run 1946-style coops (simultaneous start, no respawns, etc) is there. I feel like we just have to learn how to script the mission that way.

Lets not get started on whats "best" we all are different and prefer different mission types.

Having both is "best"

Agreed on the HY idea though.

can i get on comms with you guys sometime Bliss? maybe we can discuss exaclty what the problem is and get it sorted.I enjoy ATAG servers and consider them the best so far.In fact if anyone who has a server and needs help with HL we can start here.

BH_woodstock
HYPER/STAFF


amd dual core 5400+
6gb ram
gtx460
win7 ultimate
trackir
ms sw ff2

like i said before,it does not have to be hyperlobby.But we DO need something. Just think how much work can be accomplished with the "Devs" and the hole community if we had a place we can work from in REAL TIME.

that is just 1 thing, there are many other to consider.


BH_woodstock
HYPER/STAFF


amd dual core 5400+
6gb ram
gtx460
win7 ultimate
trackir
ms sw ff2

And that was the secret for the COOP's. unlike dogfight matches and the new "coops", we knew that we were goign to fly, take a 10 min flight a 20 min fight and get back to base. And we loved it. the fact everyone was timed ensured massive fights would happen, every single time.

trust me, being dynamic is cool and i like it too. but sometimes i just want the borigness of knowing i'm having a fight

Oh, and about coop, it was a nice tool to be able too see what was going on without having too start the game. It was the easiest way to recruit members from squad, and get help with game problems. Having a Chat inside COD wont do, because when i launch COD, im going in to play, but when i launch HL im just keeping it there for the company, and help out if one needs it.

Thats the basic difference between CooP fliers and DF server fliers.

There should be the option for both modes as just as many pilots dont like DF as those that dont like CooP.

Whats stopping the switch over for many is no simple makes sense click n fly CooP mode.

if it was not for steam dropping the servers I think there would be more confidence with people using Hyperlobby.Has there been any progress in steams commitment to Cliffs of Dover support?How long has it been since the servers have been down?
I dont see Dover ever getting Global chat.And with all the problems we have it would sure help.that is the most important thing.If it had Global chat i would have had my game dialed in a long time ago and would be flying every single night and have a squad going by now.The numbers we see online would be tenfold
Yes hyperlobby may be old but there is a saying where i come from
"If it aint broke.....dont fix it"

And it has been updated to support Dover.


BH_woodstock
HYPER/STAFF


amd dual core 5400+
6gb ram
gtx460
win7 ultimate
trackir
ms sw ff2

The lack of chat is a big issue.

The lack of CO-OPs is a killer.

I really hope they look in to the latter at the very least.

Getting on coms would be great. They're public so get on anytime you like.

As far as the problems, there are a few. If someone, while joining a server, breaks the connection or times out for any reason, there's a good chance they won't be able to join that server and will be left with a screen that has a "user failed authentication error". Basically the server thinks that the player is connected when they really aren't. So their steam id is locked out of the server until it is restarted. There is no way around the issue. We can not kick the player as they don't show up in the server list. So the only option, again, is a launcher.exe (server) restart.

Because of this we've tailored our missions (with a red/blue/or time limit win) to restart the server. This is why you can look at servers in the server list that show players (a number count) but when clicking on them actually have 0 players in them.

On top of this, servers connect to steam as a client right now. So instead of streaming data to a steam browser to make the game show up in a server list somewhere on steam, the server client also has to authenticate with steam. Because of this, when steam is performing maintenance or has a network problem, even for a split second, the client is disconnected and thus the server is disconnected.

Other steam servers for other games DO NOT work this way. Steam can be down for maintenance and the server software will always run. Obviously it will lose connection to the steam browser, but the only consequence of this is the server will obviously not be showing up in a steam browser, but it will continue to run.

Because of all of the above, our commander will catch all disconnect errors (I believe there's 3 different types), will automatically close the error window, shut down the server, restart the server on to the next mission, and go along on it's happy way until steam does the same thing again.

My point with HL is it will add a whole 'nother monkey wrench into the already complicated code to keep the server up without just being able to implement it into the commander itself. Because obviously when steam disconnects, so will HL, and so forth and so on. So to keep that daisy a float, it would be much easier to implement HL right into the commander in the 1st place.

Colander is the genius who's made our commander and would be the guy to talk to. I'm still just a lowly mission builder. He's a RL programmer. But I think our goal, once the commander is all sorted out (Colander has finished doing all the stuff he wants to it - and boy does he have some good ideas, scripts, stats, objectives, all done in a map generated by a .mis file) I'm pretty sure we'll be releasing it to the public. But up until this point, like many others, we're waiting on some of the base code to get sorted out in the sim. That way all the work that's been done on it isn't all for naught.

so pretty much what is needed at this point to continue is a stable steam from what i understand.Does it still drop servers that often?

I wonder if any people from CloD (Devs or whatever) complained about this to steam?NO game in history will ever have a chance with a problem like this.This needs to be addressed.


BH_woodstock
HYPER/STAFF


amd dual core 5400+
6gb ram
gtx460
win7 ultimate
trackir
ms sw ff2

I loved Hyperlobby with IL2 46, but it divides the small niche community. A 3rd party shouldn't have to create a program such as this for all of us to meet online and fly together. It should be built into the actual SIM.

Think how many people fly IL2 46 not knowing that Hyperlobby exists? I had 46 for about 3 years before I heard of Hyperlobby.

Now if the devs actually built a nice GUI into the sim so we had a nice meeting up place that was built into the sim where we could all chat and plan missions and coops that would be great! I really hope when they say they are redoing the GUI completely for BoM that it includes a feature like this built in, so EVERY person who plays the sim has easy access to it and doesn't have to download a 3rd party program to get the most out of the sim flying online.

Pffft, we just need an in game bar.

+1

You can easily combine the DF style with the coop style with the mission menu, which is claimed to be working after the latest patch. ;)

That existed already over 6 months ago. You just need to find enough player interested into that kind of gameplay. ;)

And there lies the problem.

There are servers which already use the mission menu call up of missions on dogfight servers. Methinks "king1hw" is trying that concept with introducing a "new server" in the online section.

Unfortunatly I cannot spent my time into further developement of this at the moment, due limited sparetime and other priorities.

And frankly spoken, the game is not in the state yet in which you could fly coop-style online wars anyhow. The network issues are too dominant to use significant AI online, the crashes are too regularly experienced by a too many players to motivate squads to dedicate their time. It is simply too frustrating to organize a squad of 12 pilots bring them in formation, just to see that the half of the group, has to quit because of CTDs midflight.

Please vote for ServerFailAuthentication bug here
http://www.il2bugtracker.com/issues/228

I added a bugtracker issue on server disconnects with a quote from Bliss. Please vote and add info http://www.il2bugtracker.com/issues/303
Please add a screenshot of the error messages if possible.

Speaking of HL alternatives:

Please join this Steam group http://steamcommunity.com/groups/cliffsofdoveril2

Than click "enter chat" on the right hand side. Here you have a global chat where you can ask for help, recruit, etc.

This needs to be advertised first of cause by adding to forum signatures and making posts on other forums.

I believe you can join a game your friend is playing via the Steam group similar to HL.

HL is great imo but its success was based on original IL-2 MP limitations (no ingame browser at all). I do not know how to make it popular again because it makes life of server owners a bit more difficult (auto restart issues plus a long prefix in front of server name). If it becomes more user (server-owner) friendly maybe it can have more success. Once I sent HL instructions to Repka servers admin. He did not even reply as it is a bit too complicated for his busy schedule.

The thing is Ataros most of dont care about the dogfight servers and Hyperlobby.

There's plenty of pilots myself included that never fly Df servers and only CooP's

If we have a proper CooP mode then HL becomes pertinent to CoD at the moment DF servers crash due to Steam, CooPs last 30-40 mins and are hosted ad-hoc and don't need to be online 24/7.

Pushing CoD to DF server style MDS game play isn't the way forwards, ideas of 100 to 200 pilots online battling away all day long isnt going to happen either no matter how clever some scripting is the stability isn't there with servers or the sim its self at that level.

Something needs to be done regarding the game play side of CoD as DF servers are not everyone's idea of how things should be.

Im typical old school unfortunately, IL2 1946 is only where it is today because of the community that stayed with it via Hyperlobby and the squads and individuals that meet there, kept an interest going with it, its growing a bit more these days due to the great work from DT who are still supporting it free of charge.

I just don't see CoD surviving let alone expanding the way it is set up at the moment, Df servers historically cater for the casual user, where CooPs are set up for intensive mission sessions and campaigns.

CoDs survival will be down to the end user, if he's not got any interest in the way it is now he will stay where he is, whole squads are holding off CoD as it has no practical implementation for them.

Lets hope 1 C Team can see fit to make a CooP gui that works old style and a great evenings flying on Hyperlobby :)



.

Sorry, it seems you know nothing about coops.

I agree and COOP is No.1. issue on the bugtracker.

In case 1C team does not include it till sequel (which would be a mistake imho) 41Sqn_Banks is working on a web GUI which will allow aircraft selection for COOPs in the same way old Il-2 GUI did. It is intended to work with his DCEngine but I am sure will be able to work with any other individual mission.

Anyone who has C# literate squadmates may ask them to offer some help to speed up the process http://forum.1cpublishing.eu/showpos...&postcount=116
If everyone just waits, it will be a long wait maybe more than a year or 2 till the sequel with majority of fixed is out (if publishers do not force it out unfinished).

:)

A BASIC coop yes, A ONLINE WAR coop no. The second one has so much more to coop flying that it is not even funny that Bliss makes such a reference. Two different animals those two are.

I don't understand the complaints about no Coop. What can you do in coop style missions that you can't do with the current mission builder?

BTW, I never see anyone on the RoF coop servers.

IMO there is an advantage of running online war coops on a dedicated server: it can be powerful enough to run 3-5 coops at the same time. Even if all other details are programmed in the old-coop fashion (same coop menu/GUI, simultaneous start, predefined target for both teams of 8-12 players, etc.) it will be still fun to meet another group flying a different coop mission in the same airspace. If there are 3-4 simultaneous coops they would start every 20 or 15 minutes. Between the coops pilots could be allowed to fly a quick CAP mission over their airfield too :)

It was discussed many times but in brief as far as I can get it COOPs have great appeal because they create very competitive situation: equal forces face each other in a known location and time like in a 8 vs. 8 duel. In a dogfight server it is not possible to have very organized 8 vs. 8 duel 3 times in one hour. A duel situation and waiting for it can create unmatched adrenalin emission as you can not climb forever, hide in the sun or run away. You have to face equal enemy anyway and win or die. Something connected to genetic memory maybe :)

Just have 2 spawn points a few miles apart and have everyone join at the same time. Why is that not the same?

The difference is huge. In one scenario people have to join a server to start at the same time, in the other scenario, the server makes you start at the same time.

What a deal breaker eh?

You'd think if 12 people wanted to play a coop they'd all be on coms and just say "everyone ready"? "Ok, lets go" and all go flying together. If the lack of the current GUI is the excuse for people not flying coops all I can do is laugh.

And as this thread pertains to HL, I've yet to see any big event COOP war EVER on HL. Every COOP I joined was a basic meet in the middle and shoot at each other with random people, none of which were probably on coms.

@carguy - I'm fully aware of SEOW and the likes, but those weren't hosted on HL (the point of this discussion in the 1st place) That is a completely different animal and one that vanilla IL2 could never do. The online Wars were all made 3rd party including the software to make it possible.

Yes, that sounds like a terrible burden.

1. AI does not wait for human players and flies away.
2. Harder to limit available aircraft and control correct numbers of limited aircraft.
3. Harder to make all people start at the same time (avoid cheating with earlier start) in a competitive situation.

Of cause other issues the game had also made coops unpopular. No one has even started working on a coop-based online war AFAIK. One or 2 squads use Banks' COOP lobby that eliminates above issues but others consider it too complicates to press keyboard keys in game instead of clicking a mouse in GUI.

Starting this week sukhoi.ru plans 12 vs. 12 scenarios to be played on weekends with preliminary registration (in DF mode). Maybe coop enthusiasts would want to organize something similar here. Enough human bombers may register to avoid using AI at all.

1. Coordinate the start on TS. Tell everyone to start at the same time. If they're late, TS.

2. Tell everyone which aircraft they're flying before you start.

3. See 1.

@bliss: but what you also have to see is, that approx. about 80% of former pilots are simply not playing clod until it is flyable. So the number of sufficient coop evenings will raise up later (hopefully). It sure was mainly provided by the comunity and third party in the past, but it will be great to have it easier at all. U must also think of the fact, that the source code was cracked or made available, so that the com had more possibilties. I do not see that in clod and it will be very difficult for any creator to max out the possibilities in this more complicated game.

What I want to say is, that everything is welcome, to do things easier directly from the original game. I would appreciate any ways to make the whole gui more handy and that there are no differences in mission types. Jist make every ingame plane flyable from the beginning in the gui, no matter what mission type.

It would be a good start.. :)

Bliss, you just cant help yourself can you?

HL hosted over 4000 missions for VEF.

16 vs 16 people plus AI flights, ground targets, recon missions, CAP missions.

Im not going to start going over this again, Bliss i get it "you" dont like them or want to play them, but can you not understand other people prefer COOP's for certain situations?
These people, mostly squad members want them, so why cant you get it?
you dont have to fly them, but we want to.

1. AI will fly in formation with any human as long as they are setup as a group in the mission. You can use as large or small of formation as you like without a single waypoint. By doing this the AI simply flies in a circle at the altitude you have preset for them. As humans hop into the AI positions (again when set as a group) the AI mask the human movements to a letter. So when more humans join in they are still flying in formation. If you do this with single planes (not groups) obviously this doesn't work.

2. Yes and No. This limit can all be scripted or at the very least, you could simply use AI planes as your spawn points. (See #1) When there's no more planes to spawn into a particular group, you have to choose another group to get into.

3. I agree. It's harder, but again using the AI method. When you hop in you'll still be in formation with the group of the 1st person that spawned in (IE - no advantage)

Then fly them right now. If you really wanted to you would. I guarantee I could get 16 members of ATAG on coms and we could fly a COOP mission where we all started at the same time.

As I've already stated, if you can't fly a COOPerative mission RIGHT NOW. It's because you don't want to. Not because the game won't allow you to.

Would you care to wager $100 that I could make a mission where we all started at the same time and flew a COOP mission? Because I guarantee I could make it work. Put your money where your mouth is or you're simply arguing to argue as you don't have the 1st clue about anything in this game.

The difference is simple: Bliss sees a battlefield as a fluid environment with surprise developments and multiple time scales whereas the fans of the old Coop format essentially want a team-based "Meet in the middle and let's have it out there". That has a lot more similarities to a sports match with a level field and a defined starting point, though.

I doubt we will see a Coop format in the way people are used to it. For that the basic mission format of the current engine is too open and universal. It does no longer produce a self-containing "sandbox" for that one mission but provides the basic characteristics of a dedicated server for both offline and online. Changing that back to a "canned format" looks like a very tall order in my uninformed eyes. :neutral:

If I understand correctly this will not work for non-flyable AI like Wellingtons? Also when hosting a coop it is not known in advance if anyone will fly bombers thus it is necessary to set waypoints even for flyable bombers and they will fly away.

The easiest way is still to use Banks' COOP-Lobby IMO:

1. copy any coop or offline mission to a missions folder
2. copy Banks' script to the same folder
3. rename the script file to match the name of mission file
4. GO.

Maybe after patch when crashes are fixed more people test it and provide feedback and bugreports.

I'm only talking about spawning. The rest of the mission's AI planes (if are being used can be blocked from jumping into) For even easier access to spawning you can make a single spawn point for red and blue where the planes being spawned into are with 15km of that point. That way when chosen the only options you have to spawn into are the groups you put into that vicinity. That will not affect any other bombers, AI as part of the mission, etc.

I agree with what Banks has done and hopefully he can make it absolutely idiot proof in the future. But if you know how the game works, setting up a way to start at the same time, in the air, in formation, is really easy to do without a single line of code. Even better is an AI formation on the ground with a timeout command. That way all ground starts are also lined up with plenty of time for humans to jump into them so everyone can start at the same time.

Oh yes I can just see it...The Luftwaffe take off to fly to their pre designated target and then decide to split up and fly 50 ft off the deck over the enemy airfield until they are all shot down. That's pretty much what happens on a DF server because people generally join them for a quick combat fix.

This is a ludicrous argument. Just because you can fly as you would on a coop in a DF server doesn't make it a coop. More functionality is going to attract more people in from IL2 and other sims. If people want COOPS (and they do) then give it to them. The more people that are playing CLOD the more everyone benefits. What do you think people do when they aren't waiting for a COOP? Yes they join a DF server.

Don't get me wrong as DF servers go ATAG is great (not great ping for me in the UK) but it isn't a COOP and I can't see it as more realistic either. On numerous occasions I fly around at 6k looking for targets and in the end just like everyone else I get bored and go and hover over Hawkinge where I know nearly everyone else is. Sometimes I escort a bomber formation and if I am lucky I see a single RAF aircraft come to intercept. The reason for this is because a DF server has the freedom to do what you want so that is what people do. I am yet to see coordinated battles at altitude over a 20-30 bomber formation in fact I am yet to see more than 2 RAF aircraft flying together at altitude (the same applies to the LW).

The point of a COOP is to simulate an aerial battle using the limited resources of everyones CPU and the limited number of people that can join. This way you get the feeling of being part of the big battle and you guarantee that everyone gets to feel like they were a part of it. The map is way too big for 50 people to be scattered to the winds.

P.S RE the Banks COOP Lobby. You can't have everyone chose their own load outs unfortunately. We tested it and it does work pretty well but the loadout issue is a problem especially for the RAF pilots. Hoping to get some time off work to spend some more time on it.

I think you hit the nail square on the head.

As I said in a previous post I have a feeling we'll see people - like today that design skins and give them away - missions built to extreme detail and very accurate sold and licensed for use on multi-player host. I may be wrong but I can see it happening. Remember no one saw the iPad 5-6 years ago either.

Thousands of people in hundreds of squads flew coop online wars for ten years in il2.
CoD needs to get those people back.

@ Emil - But the problems you are describing is because of the game. Twins couldn't fly in formation until a week ago - that eliminates coordinated bomber attacks. If fighters even flew in close proximity to a Ju88 for instance you had a 90% chance of a CTD.

The bombsights were bugged so people flew on the deck. The flak has no difficulty setting to hinder people flying that low as well.

This is all slowly changing as the game gets fixed. If you haven't seen multiple people all escorted up in the past week then we haven't been on. We've had 12 all in formation since the hotfix. And we regularly fly together in a group (not 1's and 2's) as you describe.

But again, people wanted a quick fix because they knew they'd crash. Things will drastically change when the game gets there and IMO it's already starting to.

Getting back on topic..If it were any other game besides il2 or CloD i could care less about having a open chat or Global chat feature. But with this community and this sim it is essential to be able to go into a lobby and troubleshoot in REAL time and "recruit" and be able to see coops and DF servers and communicate in REAL time with other players.This is needed. thats why in my 1st post i stated we have a lot of great minds here.Even this person who is doing this coop program here.(I have seen the post's about it.)All im saying is something needs to be done.The amount of pilots that would be flying online RIGHT NOW would be tenfold at least!!This community is known for helping other pilots out with games and servers and info.Just remember how easy it was to recruit,troubleshoot and everything.This is what is holding this "sim" back in my opinion. I remember even seeing Oleg himself flying in DF servers and troubleshooting and communicating with pilots.Stop "selling" yourselves short and do something about it.

Woodstock - did you get Colander's PM?

He says it would be easy to do.

Great idea about delayed start but not self explanatory for most of users unfortunately. Maybe some coop mission-makers would want to make coop missions based on this? Anyone?

Loadouts are defined in a mission by a mission maker. This is current game feature that prevents using not-historic loadouts in singleplayer and coops. Mission maker has to include the most popular loadout or historic one. Even when the devs make COOP GUI loadouts may stay unchangable for aircraft which you do not spawn at a spawnpoint. I do not remember if there is even a bugtracker issue open for this.

I put down some ideas on how to avoid these problems on ATAG forums here http://theairtacticalassaultgroup.co...or-ATAG-server
I think this also needs more time or C# programmers to be involved.

Bliss, this is one of the most common COOP training missions we used to use...

All airstart...

12 spits flying above dover at 12k

15 HE111's flying at 10k heading to bomb one of the RAF bases, they start about half way across the channel.

6 109E's behind and above the bombers at 18k flying top cover.

6 109E's flying with the bombers flying close escort.

Is that possible? if it is i would love to fly it with ATAG.

Of course it's possible. Why wouldn't it be?

Attach your mission and I'll fix it for you.

yes sir, i just did and just now replied.

;)

Great! with a briefing screen for both sides, then a screen to pick loadouts for everyone, then after the mission a de-briefing screen to check how everybody did.
Then 1 min after that with nobody leaving and having to rejoin, we can swap sides and go again?

Sure. When you choose your side you'll not only have access to your own briefing before flight, but also while in flight.

Stats could easily coded for a single mission to see how you did.

The server could rotate right into the mission again alleviating anyone having to rejoin as well.

As I said earlier, all possible. But it seems you're more worried about other things than the actual flying part.

Still waiting on the mission. Some reason I doubt you'd even know how to place an object let alone ever even opened up the FMB.

Bliss, seriously why the insults? when have i ever insulted you?

Because just like I have explained to you numerous times on SimHq, you keep asking the same questions, get the same answers, and somehow keep forgetting them over and over again. It gets old saying the same thing to people like yourself.

Perhaps, as I've already said about 100 times just to you. Try to remember this time.

And that allows you to inslult me on this forum? even if it was true.

Where's the insult? I've asked for a mission. I've even wagered a bet saying I could play a COOP without a single line of code.

You have yet to deliver your mission you can't figure out or respond to it. The only reason you won't wager or post up a mission is because you can't make one. If you were as confident in knowing what is or isn't possible in the game I'm sure you'd like to win $100. But that alone tells me / proves to me that you don't know anything about the game.

If you did you wouldn't ask the same stupid questions over and over again.

Looks like some folks just don't get the fact that if COD doesn't incorporate some sort of proper CO-OP GUI and debrief, they will never get those squads from IL-2 that are holding out waiting for one. You would think even if they don't like co-ops themselves, they would want the sim to succeed and get a lot more flyers. They can talk til their blue in the face about work arounds and scripting, and the "Ready...Set..Go.." type of mission start, but that isn't going to matter.

Looks like some folks just like to talk on forums and won't/don't take the time to learn that COOPs are very possible right now. So very possible that you can run them in about as many ways as you can imagine.

I've been watching this he ask for the mission to be attached so he can help.

And I didn't read any where there was an insult. You took it as an insult because he cornered you into revealing your hand. You are a poor poker player.

Doc - there is no mission. As usual, he's full of ****.

Quoted for Truth

That and some folks seem to think that those who point out you can do coops now are somehow saying they don't want 1C to add the old coop menu.

Which is not true at all! If they can add it in.. GREAT!

About the only thing I have seen anyone say wrt doing that is they are NOT willing to give up any of the new MISSION making features for it.

Assuming the reason it was removed had something to do to the process of combining the seperate DF and COOP mission types into the new single MISSION type.

Well I was hoping there was! I think there is he's just shy. Give him a minute.

Nice.

Great mission!

Nonsense.

Eventually everything ends. It will be because some software or an element of it wont be supported and it breaks and it just comes to the end of its life. Its only a matter of time. You make it sound as if there is this huge group of people still hanging on to their tube type radios. It's coming. You can't stop it. You will assimilate. Trust me. You will be here.

Doc - I strung him along for quite a while. Since he has a habit of forgetting what happens or what is spoken 5 seconds ago let alone 5 minutes ago, I knew exactly what the outcome would be and his same tactics that he always appears to use (pure speculation without any evidence or factual information) just makes it that much more fun ;)

No, i said we used to fly this mission (IL2 training COOP)

BTW making the mission for CLOD now.

So you've been banging on about COOPs for months now and you haven't even made a mission yet?

Good god. You are even more of a troll than I first thought.

So you don't have one. Why is it that everything dealing with CoD this way? They complain that its been a year. We have been reading here that there is no coops and now you just start. What's up with that? Where are your priorities?

You had me thinking you were stuck on one thing and that you'd been building for months now we find out you haven't even started.

http://nuckingfutsmama.com/wp-conten...oure-fired.jpg

Do I need to quote myself again?

It's good of you to help the coop guys to do their thing...:cool:

No, again i never said i had this mission ready for COD, we had tried other missions for COOP's but could never get them to work so gave up months ago, bliss told me he could get any mission to work, so i asked about a favorite mission we used to fly. I then asked him if it was possible for this mission to work in COOP for COD, have a read back.

I would be ashamed of myself if this is "their thing". What is that?

I'm not sure, but I know that they like to fly that way...I never tried it

So you want someone to kiss your rear-end and do it all for you to. The whole thing from start to finish. I bet you'd take credit for the entire thing to wouldn't you??

You can go pro-coop/against coop all day long if you want to guys but it won't change the fact that CoD is and will be an online dud for a lot of virtual squadrons out there as long as there is no "traditional" coop gui/setup. Over 100 people on ATAG? Sweet! if you're in to sporadically organized rag-tag formations that may or may not materialize during the time you have for playing online.

I don't understand why we are arguing about this at all. Surely, one can't be against either form of online play? What would be the motive for that? A lot of people want a "traditional" coop gui, other people are fine with all the new bells and whistles. Why are we even arguing? Everybody just want to play online and have fun.:grin: ATAG guys will always play on ATAG because they enjoy that, good for them, the rest of us will just have to wait I guess, hopefully not in vain.

P.S Since the mods don't care, could you ATAG guys please stop gang-bullying furbs, it's extremely tasteless. I am aware that this an online forum but try to act as the adults you are and show some class instead of acting like high-fiving 7-year olds.

Spot on, Uther!
If coop haters believe that a "we don` need no stinking coops!" saying is going to get those people back then they are mistaking more than they can realise.

I agree, actually these kinds of thread are most likely alienating both new and old players to CoD and I don't see the point of arguing. Maybe the ATAG guys can please explain to us why they feel the need to argue about this.

P.S I'd go as far to say that they are biased in this matter since their server(s) are dependent on the fact that people CAN'T play "traditional" coops.

Why does people think this is a for or against argument? I think the more online options we have the better.

The only thing I'm saying and have been saying all along is that COOPs are entirely possible RIGHT NOW. If you need the old style GUI to play a COOP, then I personally think people care more about the looks of the GUI then the flying part itself.

For the last time, I am not against anyone having COOPs, but I'm 100% against people not taking the time to realize that this game is 100x more complex in almost every single way than old IL2 was. With that, making missions is also much more complex. There is a learning curve.

People forget that objective based missions didn't come from the FMB. They came from people that made 3rd party programs that made them entirely possible in a mouse click environment. (Here's your sign) 3rd party will be making the same type of stuff for DF/COOP worlds. There's already tidbits of info and work being done on both fronts. We've coded our own commander to make the DF servers work. It would be a mess without it. If you have patience this sort of thing will progress as the sim does.

But I'd appreciate people not putting words in my mouth.

Ok mission done, only had a hour so it might be a tad rough the edges, but should be fine for a COOP.

Full of what?

where do i send it Bliss?

Ofcourse, but that doesn`t change the situation one bit. There is a big online crowd waiting for generic and historical coops to happen. CloD badly needs to get something closely similar to il2 coops or provide something better, meaning an evolution of that concept. It is a popular idea which has proven itself. It is entirely unknown if 3rd party crowd will be able to do the same as with BW/VEF/AFW and the like.

If you`re saying that it is a "takeoff on either side of the map and meet in the middle" then you are oversimplyfying it.

What does that matter to you? Why do you need to make that point? LOL! I don't care about how complex CoD is, I just want a traditional coop GUI, what are you raving about man? :D

That's just so untrue. Worse, you know it to be untrue because CLOD just doesn't have coop.

So you're saying untruths.

I call him out on his lie and I'm bullying him? I should bow down to his conspiracy theories and speculation on stuff he knows nothing about. Dream on. I am acting like a man. I call out BS as I see it, especially in person.

Well I'm glad you've cleared that up because it looked like you were adamantly against improving the ability to run CO-OPs.

Yes it is technically possible but no it isn't easy in my opinion and it requires workarounds to put it mildly.

The lack of chat makes it hard to find opponents unlike with Hyperlobby.

So the in the real war pilots all fired up their machines at the same exact second and met in the middle? haha

And IL2COD has COOPs. It has servers that rotate missions as well. It has objective based missions.

You know what is true about every single mode of play? It has to be made.

As DF server, you think there's some sort of GUI within this dos box that says "objective 1 click here to make" or "rotate mission by clicking this button"? No, of course not. All of that stuff that makes DF servers to their thing and COOP servers do their thing has to be programmed in the mission.

Why aren't people like me raising an uproar asking for a GUI to run a DF server? Oh wait, that's because we just figured out how to do it on our own. Guess what? COOPs use the same strategy.

Where did i lie?

Mission ready...where do i send it?

Please find one quote where I said anything of the sort "against improving the GUI for COOP".

Good luck.

How can you already forget?

I've said twice in this thread to attach it.

A dog fight server is not a COOP in the way that nearly everyone else but you seems to understand.

I've said it before but I'll say it again. The COOP is to simulate a meeting engagement often (but not always) one that is historical.So this is something that HAS happened in real life.

Maybe they can`t realise that people are not ready for this. It needs to be a smooth transition. There was no need to invent the whole thing again from the start (sorry, I know this have been repeated many times before) If the new GUI provides more options then we`re both winners, although there is trouble running traditional coops.

I agree with Bliss that the 3rd party needs to get an opportunity to make it work, but some of us anticipated this already coming with CloD. If not exactly the same coops, then the same foundation expanded with new features. Now it seems that those people don`t have too many options when wanting to fly online at this moment.

Also I do not get the impression that traditional coop fans need to argue about this. IMO the aim is in bringing back the IL2 online experience.

This "thing" is a training mission where a squdron of spits intercepts bombers escorted by 109's heading for England.

Pretty much what the Battle of Britain was about, wouldn't you agree?