Please explain...
 

...only last week it was almost ready for release,and now it didn't pass?
Only one of these 2 statements can be right,not both!

I agree we need some clarity on this one!

Dutchman, Aer9o:

Ever developed software? Yes? Then you should know. If not, then I'll tell you: Final testing ist for final testing. Final means, you're pretty sure that it will work. But you don't now (with software: You never know) for sure. So you test.

And this final test may fail. Back to square one. This is life. Just life.

Artist.

Artist,you are right,but from the beginning of CoD's release it looks a bit as if they've created a monster they can't control...:eek:

It looks for those who want to see.

More like a hot air balloon getting ready to explode methinks.....

Mabye some video comparison for game performance on current patch vs beta patch ? Lets show us some proofs of your work progress pls.

I do devolop different things, however I am a fan of series since day one of release of the original IL2. I am a veteran simmer with other titles as well such as FSX, REX, ORBX + various addons, as well as BETA tester for a new tiltle which I would not like to mention here! I think this is enough to vouch for my opinion !

I'm also a developer by profession but I'm pretty sure "Artist" isn't.
I for one is just leaning back having a smile at all the excuses Luthier and team gives out.

You do understand that the OP didnt ask for the patch, right?

Who said we do not let them release when satisfied, all people want is some clarification as they indicated things are close to be finished! So before you post something here go read...and hope you too will have a nice afternoon STFU!

Not really. what Artist said is correct. Testing is done for a reason: to avoid releasing buggy software.

What buggy mate? this is BETA testing! for us to find the buggs and report back!
If they would have released something so far it could have helped speeding up things !

Good to see that Vikings haven't lost their subtle touch over the years.


Your not the mighty Techno Viking are you?


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-fvLs5KXWYI

No, that's incorrect. If it's ready, then it doesn't need to be tested, because to be ready it must already have been tested. If it's almost ready, then it is, by definition, not yet ready. It needed to be tested, and it failed the test. That's software for you.

I DEMAND AN EXPLANATION FOR THIS OUTRAGE!

I shall be writing to my MP at once.

I think there is a recent post, probably in the Thursday update thread, where someone found a post by B6 where he was answering a similar question on Sukhoi forum and he said some graphical artifacts had appeared. Don't quote me on that though as I don't have time to go back and search.

Precisely, it is beta testing. What is the point of releasing a beta if it doesn't pass their own testing? To get the same bug report(s) a million times?. That doesn't speed up anything.

It wasn't that big rectangular lake in France was it?

Quoted for the absolute point.

They release a beta with problems they know about and everybody will just be sending bug reports about a problem they know about, even a beta is meant to be a working solution.

They released a game with far more problems than this beta appears to have, if they have fixed the CTD's then they will allow me and many many others to finally be able to play the game, we are currently in Alpha mode anyway, this beta patch would make the game Beta, which is only a good thing.

Well the state of release is old news now and not really a constructive argument any more, the point is they were able to take on board the issues and started working to a solution, surely even you must be able to admit you wouldn't like to be in their shoes, I reckon much of the complaining has been extremely damaging and they have had to be extremely carefull, the worst luck they could possibly have had was for you in particular to have had the CTD issue, a bit like accidentally burning a Qur'an in front of Abu Hamza, now they have had to face the millitant wrath.

21 years of it... :grin:

i can wait for whatever reason but the biggest complaint and it is a "Valid" complaint is that most here (including myself) are upset to see this progress being made on a sequel but not the original product.My question is this: How can someone make a sequel when the original game does not work as intended?Wouldnt that mean that they would have to GO BACK and fix everything AGAIN for the sequel?It would be wise to get EVERYONE involved and fix it.NO sequel should have even been thought about yet.It should not have even been mentioned at all because all it did was make us feel like pawns and used.
how can you move forward when you have to keep taking 2 steps back??All we asked is that you guys should have STOPPED EVERYTHING and fixed the problem 1st.there would be NO complaints if this was done when the problems 1st appeared is all im saying.WE all have priorities and priority #1 should have been to fix the game before moving on.With that being said everyone should be pulled off of working on the sequel and get it done right.once and for all.it is the only way to move forward.

Well if I were in thier shoes i would have my hands on my cash, of course the complaining is damaging, if noone had complained do you think they would of tried to fix it? They made a choice to release a completely broken product with any warning, that is not my fault or anyone else's. If the game had been all that it should of been i would of been shouting about it from the rooftops.

Sir, you do not have a grasp of how IL2 has worked over the years. Any game engine fixes/upgrades that appear in the sequel will automatically be applied to CloD when you merge the install after purchase of the sequel.

All the employees of Maddox Games that can work on fixes are, those like modelers and landscape builders and texture artists are doing what they do best. They are not game engine coders. This is a proper division of labor and to the best interests of the company and us.

*EDIT*

You also must understand that MG is no doubt under amazing pressures from 1C to show solid income. This is most easily accomplished by catering to their biggest, most important market, Russia. If you understand this, a sequel that focuses on the Great Patriotic War makes amazingly good business sense. And it means the title will survive, so we all can enjoy it for another decade or more.

That's good and all ElAurens and I for one support this model since it worked for the old IL-2 series and well to boot BUT what if a person doesn't want to buy any sequel? what if he just wants the product that he has already bought to function properly and contain advertised features? Is he entitled to additional content? IMO no! is he entitled to any fixes that any sequel will have that uses the same game engine? IMO yes he dang well is!

You seem unaware that you are basically saying that "no problem if he buys the sequel(s) his current game will be fixed", I hope you are aware of how wrong that is.

and this is the crux.

when pacific fighters came out, although it improved forgotten battles, forgotten battles was a working game.....

anyway, i see 1c as working towards achieving that with Clod despite this forum, so its moot at this point.

Mine too

Actually I do, I dare say enough people would have made bug reports, the complaining has done nothing towards this, just made the forums more unpleasant for a year.

still the old news that doesnt matter any more

Perhaps, but since it wasn't you've been calling for Jihad from your minarette, it's extreme either way.

Understood and thank you.And yes you are correct.i really dont understand how game devs operate.Now i understand a little more and appreciate your comments.It just seemed a little backwards to me how it was being delt with.

~S~

Thank you for highlighting my point.

lol!

They didn't make a choice to release the game in the state it was/is, they were forced to release it by 1C. And they were forced to add Steam by 1C, which set them back even further.

You must bear this in mind.

See it this way: Without a fixed basic engine (which anyone who purchased CloD will profit from) any sequel is a non-starter for Maddox Games. It is not the best situation for us players that MG has moved on to creating content only for the sequel (as that means no further ships for either side for example) but from a purely business POV this is understandable. I guess 1C (as the mother corporation) doesn't want to throw more money after what was essentially a FUBAR release, especially if the rumored cooperation between 1C and the russian state is true and 1C receives government aids for producing games which portray parts of Russia's history. This, coupled with 1C's own interest in its home market, makes the choice of another eastern front setting plausible. It may be a bitter pill to swallow for those who prefer other theaters but 1C is paying the wages and therefor calls the shots.

Yes, I know this, after a development cycle that put most modern games to shame -except Duke Nukem Forever, StarCraft II and Diablo 3- they were forced to released their brutally mis-managed piece of software out the door. I don't blame 1c for this, they must have the patience of angels.

If the devs comment on the current situation today or in the next days I would really like to know if the patch contains the updated sound engine.

What about the incredible new sounds which makes the game so alive what luthier stated quite some time ago.

By your statment it is clear that you have never tested software.. The whole purpose of them testing it priror to release is to see if there is a bug in it that they missed. Thus your wrong to say that only one of the two statments can be true

I remember the original Sturmovik, and Forgotten Battles. They were great, but Sturmovik would crash on my machine after some period, sometimes less than an hour, sometimes six or more, but if I kept playing it it would eventually crash. Forgotten Battles changed that, it crashed at about two hours in, every time. This on the same Athlon 1GHz machine, so given that the crashes were different, I assume these to have been bugs not hardware failures. I built a new machine for Pacific Fighters, and that didn't crash, though I think Forgotten Battles still did until it could be flown under the Aces pack.

I spent a lot of time on Sturmovik and Forgotten Battles, and still enjoy them under 1946, but they weren't perfect when first released.

niet zo zeiken man wacht gewoon eens af, waarom een negatieve sfeer kweken daar hebben we al genoeg van gehad laatste weken/maanden

I remember them too, i've had every version of the game myself as well, from the original till now.

I know they weren't perfect, but was still in a hugely better state than what we have at the moment, and by the time pacific fighters came out, for me at least forgotten battles worked pretty flawlessly on my athalon 1900+, never had a problem with crashes myself.

I am also a experience software programmer and manager with over 45 years of experience on major projects (Air traffic Control, Shuttle Flight Software, and BOBII).

After following the COD project for a year, it is clear to me that the COD project has had many basic problems and the type of problems tell me that the programming Staff has turned over (staff coming and going) resulting in major performance, completeness, and quality problems requiring major rework and redesign (the last example being the graphics system).

The past COD Development process is at best inefficient and at worst flawed.

I hope that the significant quality, completeness, and performance problems/issues are all behind us now and the new issues/problems can be fixes correctly and quickly in the future.

There is no doubt in my mind I will be flamed for saying this but i believe its the truth.
They have pulled this "stunt" many times before, graphic problems dont just pop up, they knew it was there and as per usual said all was ok, only to say at the last minute there was a problem and postpone the beta.

Any one who has spent any considerable time at this forum since release knows this has happened with almost every beta patch and proper patch too, leading to the reason why many people bitch and whine and cause issues.
My opinion is that anyone who thinks otherwise is in denial, the so called whiners were perfectly happy untill this ridiculous cycle of hype and letdown began.

Not to get evangelical or anything, but... Amen!

The "finding problems during testing" stunt?

The initial release is loaded with bugs and a very dedicated group of people complain for the next year. They delay a patch release because they found bugs and the same group of people are complaining.

This thread is cracking me up.

I hope the professional complainers in here aren't expecting to be taken seriously.

Agree. Something don´t match well. By the last developers reports, it look like things were under control.

The only reason I see for not releasing the new patch, is that something really very wrong was found. And if so looks like things are not under control.

Do not mean that this Sim isn't good. I enjoy it very much, just hoping that it became more improved.

Anyway thanks for developers for not give up, and keep on trying.

Regards,

Another analogy, re: final testing:
It's like when you are about to break wind. You think you are going to break wind. You hope you are going to break wind. But you can never be 100 percent sure of the outcome.

Guess who :

http://i43.tinypic.com/16i9qg8.jpg

mate, I think you really have some serious problem... take a rest or take your pills...

Nice anal-ogy. Let's hope it doesn't end with a "squeaker" when the wind finally breaks.

Hayward said:

>>I hope the professional complainers in here aren't expecting to be taken seriously<<

As one of the most thoroughly professional, you know whereof you speak.

Good pic above :)

True, the 6 years Oleg had to develop CLOD, plus the 2 Luthier has had have not been enough time to have a working product.

ah yeah it was explained, failed internal testing, so some more work to be done on it, what's not clear?? go outside and do something else for a bit, it'll do some of you lot a far bit of good i think. Sheesh

I did,it rained,so i went back inside...

So did I, it's 0 degrees Celsius outside, wind is blowing and it's snowing, think I'll sit in front of the old PC for a while more.

Without being a programmer I thought + or - the same since long ago, but I blamed more specifically a bad project management.

I believe that quality must be privileged over schedule, because time passes but s**it remains, and stains badly your image.

Cheers!

Guys its really not that hard to understand.

They have been rewritting massive amounts of code for the sequel and will be patching the sequel code back into CLOD. This has been stated before today many times.

If the original CLOD code was so flawed that this was their best approach, it is bound to have difficult implications for applying the patch to the original CLOD code.

They were optimistic and keen to release the patch and are just as disappointed I am sure. But they are still working on it, and if you dont have the patience, (which is understandable) then go and find something else to do.

I personally havent flown in CLOD for weeks other than testing new Nvidia driver releases. Im sure you all wanted it fixed "yesterday" just like me, but the fact is its not ready and its not worth the pain of releasing it with what I guess they see as a major issue being identified. But they will keep working away at it and I assume we'll get some more updates over the next week.

Thank you for your astounding use of logic, some forum members may want to use this post as an example... ahem.

Anyway, imagine the complaining if, after all these months of work, we got a patch with faulty particle effects, crashes, freezing or some other problem. I have complete faith that this forum would look somewhat reminiscent of a lunch time food fight.

I'm pretty sure it would something other food though :)

Keep in mind the absolute sh*tstorm that will occur if they release the beta patch and it runs poorly.

If this patch we've been waiting for for over a year now can't fix the game then I suspect a good number of people here will give up for good on Cliffs of Dover.

I'm sure 1c would prefer people upset about patch delays than people screaming bloody murder because the supposed uber-fix doesn't work.

Well Doggles, I guesss it's like when you need to pee and just wait for it and wait for it (more recoil you know).
If the yellow team would have put out continous small patches people wouldn't expect the one ring to rule them all.

Kudos to them though to keep on rocking.

The analogy is a bit distressing... but I think you'll find the smaller patches (fixes) you're whinging about have already been put out - internally, and matched against other smaller patches (fixes), which is where it just might have been discovered that some of the earlier small patches (fixes) have actually been broken by other smaller patches (fixes)... and so the story goes.

much better to have many of the smaller patches (fixes) developed, tested, tested again and again (for consistency) and any tweaks made internally, to the best of the developer's criteria and then run a closed beta just to make sure that all of the combined smaller patches (fixes) actually perform as expected.
In this way, in Beta, some other items may come up which need to have a smaller patch( fix) applied and then tested and tested again and a again, just to make sure nothing else broke in the process.

Then, when the developer feels that after internal and closed Beta testing, that all is performing as expected, they then choose to release a PUBLIC BETA or a RTM PATCH. Hopefully then, in the greater wild, where some people run all sorts of rigs, to all sort of standards and upkeep and integrity... the developer's efforts hopefully will have come to fruit. This of course, is after completely developing, from scratch, a new graphics engine. > SHOCK HORROR < that this may keep you waiting for a while.

better than incessant whinging/ blackmail and silly threats, over every small patch (fix) release

Couldn't been said better.

what patience??? this game is a total fail! They are kidding us starting from the first release of the game. We are customers and not beta tester!!!!. We paid over 60 Euros for this incomplete game. I think that this is the last simulator of 1C! I have not written more. I hoped for improvement in this last year, but this is really a joke. No good improvements are here!!! Now they can't kidding us any more!!!! :evil::evil::evil:

We can talk for hours or hope for months but now we have seen how they have behaved :evil:

Don't write "change your hobby"... don't worry, I have my IL-2 Sturmovick 1946... but I am still angry about this game and I can't see that many of you write "to have patience".

Since I can't change my account I must say that this is my personal opinion and not of my group

:(

Posted 10-17-2011

3. Performance. We are in final stages of testing a thorough overhaul of the game’s graphic engine. It won’t look any different but it will be much more streamlined. It’s too early to say what the FPS increase will be in the final version, but it shouldn’t be less than 50%.

10-17-2011 supposedly in the "final stages" of "testing" the (supposedly already completed) "thorough overhaul of the game's graphic engine".

That was 6 months ago.

At what point do you stop making excuses for the delay?

:!::!::!:

The only thing that makes me sad and annoyed is that 1C team spent so many manhours programming trying to make a new "lighter"(?) or "more efficient"(?) graphics engine because ATI and NV did not have powerful enough single GPUs at that time, because sli did not work and because so many people complained about "why does CoD not run on my Pentium IV 2.0GHz PC".

Had this amount of time being spent in further developing and correcting the open issues, we would have been much better off today.

~S~

+1

This is why people are moaning, not because there is a bug(s) but because for so long we are told all is good untill the last hour when a game breaking bug just so happens to pop up.
Since release we've been getting the same old story every beta or patch.

Personally I dont need to be shone on to make me appreciate this game and all the work that is put into it, thats why i paid my money for it, but to MG I would appeal that you dont need to lead the community into thinking all is well only to have to let them down, it just creates more bad rep and moaning.

Where did you get this understanding from??

Couldn't been said better.

It's true, there is an adage in customer relations that the best way to keep customers happy is 'Underpromise, overdeliver.' Obviously that has not happened here regarding patch release timing.

However, there is also an adage that I have found that explains many things in life that also seems to apply here. 'Sh^t happens.'

Well, if I'd pay you 60 Euros would you go away and complain elsewhere then?

;)

I ask myself how often MG have to excuse things went so wrong. And still so much people here around keep moaning and complaining. MG is still on work, that's the really important message. They're putting their efforts into patching the mess wich had to be released in 2010 and they are so kind to discuss all that here in their forums. If I were them I would close this forum immediately.

Well they found a lot of code errors so there was a lot more to it than just that.

+1

I'm not convinced that designing for dual-core GPUs would have avoided the mess we've currently got.