why didnt i study this in five years of thermodinamics
 

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...l_animated.gif

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wally_Minto

well it was 6 months for people who dont question but to me it took five years

Why do your Posts always make me do this:
http://gifsoup.com/view5/2320932/bla...headdesk-o.gif

Questions over Questions, get the answer in our next episode of "Prozac - the story continues".

have you read the wiki link

something big is going on

the truth is coming out

the opresors soon will be in jail

why is it stupid?

do you really understand what getting work from a 2º gradient means?

man you like planes so probably like engine

and arent you amazed at an anegine which works on 2º temp difference?
i am

nice! But...

"Test units constructed by Mother Earth News (Issue 40, July 1976) and the MythBusters (Episode 24, December 5, 2004 – "Ming Dynasty Astronaut") did work to convert temperature difference into torque..."

yeah and dont you find odd only old written reference is mother nature article when mintos from 1900

something really is going on

do you know what work is?

torque produces work

a thermic engine transforms temp gradient into work

a fridge the opposite transforms work into temp gradient

maybe you misred what did work means, in this case it means funciono

The thing with this device is the heated water, you need an external source to put BTU's into the water. It's a gimmic and not efficient. Pseudoscience..

tel me something with better eficiency then 85% and that works with less than 2º gradient

and why it was only distributed through mother erath magazine "till now" but supression


this used to be coolest till now ;)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=baW3gwWQ1f4

You can fly your tea cup powered machine, Ill fly my pertol driven ICE...

Thanks but no thanks.

Why dont you check out the water powered car... Thats allot more relevant to your argument...

What, like the sun? :grin:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WJeYKEpX56o

None of this has ever been suppressed. The Stirling cycle is taught in real thermo classes but, evidently, not in imaginary ones. We even had a Stirling engine in our thermo lab.

I will go out on a limb and bet that there is no university level text book printed in the last 60 years that has not covered a closed cycle heat engine (like the Stirling cycle).

Regardless, the problem is not whether or not it, "works". Everyone knows it "works". Stirling engines have been used throughout the world for hundreds of years and are in use today. The problem is with the specific power of closed cycle engines.

Just because you can turn a little flywheel on a table top does not mean it will scale up to produce megawatts of easily manageable power better than every other means of generating mechanical work.

So, in summary, no suppression, just the difficulties of reality.

--Outlaw.

i had a stirling in class too but i was talking of minto wheel

or maybe you had heard about it before?

Its not exactly suppressed when you can buy model kits based on the principles ...

http://www.en.boehm-stirling.com/a1.html

here is another interesting principle

http://www.en.boehm-stirling.com/hb24.html



If you are interested in some really mad paranoid conspiracy theories about suppressed impossible technology look online at the crazy stuff about Bruce De Palma (brother of Brian De Palma the famous movie director) and his homo-polar "N machine". I met De Palma on a few occasions before he died and he was definitely a few feathers short of a full duck and the machine definitely does not work.

http://depalma.pair.com/

heck i know the stirling machine is not supressed, its in my books

IM TALKING ABOUT THE MINTO WHEEL BEING SUPRESSED

if you show me a kit of MINTOS WHEEL(not sterling) ill be quiet

OMG look at this!!!!

Its a world changing invention that I have never seen before, why has it being supressed it could end all our troubles....

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sliced_bread

You are sooooooo behind the times:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wheel

And just for Raaaid, here's something that's been supressed for millenia:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fire

Not sure if they make a kit but here is a Mintos wheel on public display .....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Za9td23Vk0c

Again: Power is not really the problem, the infrastructure is, clear? No?
Same with food, we got more than enough for the whole world, problem is getting it there.
I remember a friend of mine asked me if I was interested in 20tons(!)of potatoes - for free.
The catch was:
- you have to take all of it
- you have to pick them up
- they were too big for retail or industrial processing.
iirc they were eventually turned into biosgas.

In the end it's all about infrastructure:
We, in the north, got water but could use green power. People in the desert need water, but have potential solar power.
Problem: There is not pipeline or high voltage power line(ok, there are plans for the latter, but...).

Back to your idea:
The dry parts of a continent are usually towards the center of it. That's where you need the water. How does it get there?

And last but no least:
It's a free patent, if it did work those wheels would be all over the planet - it produces a something you can sell.

check out the wki article

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Minto_wheel

only reference in 100 years is mother erath magazine

I see.
It has a wiki article but no one knows about it.
You'll be a billionaire soon, trust me.

The purpose of a text book is not to showcase every single example of a concept. That stupid wheel is simply another closed cycle heat engine, and a very bad one at that.

The reason no one knows about it is because it is useless in the real world. There are hundreds of better ways to produce power right now.


--Outlaw.

well outlaw so you belive i did study thermo, check this out:

http://energy.sdsu.edu/testhome/Test...C/TSatR12.html

the vapur pressure differnce bewteen top and bottom with a gradient of five degrees its 100 kpa

this means the wheel can work with 10 m diametrum on a 5 º gradient

how much work is that for kg of r12?

1*10*10=100 J

whats the internal energy difference for 5 º
around 5 J/kg

U variation=Q-W
5=Q-100

Q=105

eficiency=w/q=100/105=95% eficiency

negelcting a ten percent of mechanical lost it gives the 85% figure matching the claimed author eficiency

if it filtered to the wiki is cause things are changing due to the 2012 effect of next leap of evolution

Lmao where did you study thermodynamics? Chumpsville by any chance lol

so whats wrong?

well i saw it:

whats the internal energy difference for 5 º
around 2000 J/kg

U variation=Q-W
2000=Q-100

Q=2100

eficiency=w/q=100/2100=4.7% eficiency

eficiency for carnot?

1-cold focus/hot focus=1.3%

I have studied thermofluids albeit very briefly but I can tell that your figures just come our of thin air.

If you were to work it out you would require a hell of a lot more equations and all the assumptions you made...

It should look more like this

http://www.borderschess.org/MintoWhe...tionUpdate.pdf

whats the internal energy difference for 5 º
around 2000 J/kg in the best case

around 5000 j/kg in the worst case


U variation=Q-W
2000=Q-100


Q=2100


eficiency=w/q=100/2100=4.7% eficiency
in the worst case: 100/5100=2%

maximum eficiency for carnot?


1-cold focus/hot focus=1.3%

It's just not that simple you can't just take random figures out of nowhere and except ppl to believe them, if you really did study thermodynamics then get your notes out and work the efficiency out correctly.

well i got a maximum and minimum eficiency to canclulate the title x , the amount of vapur and the amount of liquid would be very difficult

but my calculation shows that even in the worse of cases it has a bigger eficiency than karnot

but any way its not the eficiency

ITS THAT IT CAN WORK WITH 2 DEGREE GRADIENT

how about this two mixtured:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bs_OtCsDJoY

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=elfNY...eature=related

Dont try and change the topic!!

So far you have given an efficiency of 5% to 95% not exactly inspiring, your mathematics look like something from a primary school maths book rather than a thermodynamics text book... If you really believe in this design prove it!

Wait.
Did you see this:
?


We should both be shot for replying. :(

You have nobody to blame but yourselves for getting dragged in...;)

I decided to argue this time as I hope it will stop him from posting rubbish like this in the future.... yeah I don't have much faith in that idea ;)

These conspiracy theorist get on my nerves now and again...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JvKIWjnEPNY

@Krupi ... raaid is not your normal conspiracy theorist, he believes publishing material in a thermodynamics texts rather than on Youtube constitutes suppression :D



Raaaid ... solar powered steam engines of all types are not new, and building them is in fact something of a hobby among mechanically oriented alternative types, I would not be surprised if there were "solar steam engine" competitions out there


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZEnqQxFeS74

thats interesting gal

but then why not getting electricity from those to feed electric cars

biggest bussines in the world: weapons

2nd: drugs

3rd: i guess petrol

thjen could be a minority shaping the world to their liking when it should be a much nicer place?

no more wars

free drugs

solar energy and ban burning petrol

No I don't. In fact, I specifically noted "imaginary" thermodynamic classes.

It's obvious you didn't study because, according to your subject line, you spent FIVE YEARS doing so. If everything you have said about your education is true you should have 5 or 6 degrees by now. You don't have any. And no, English philology or whatever the hell it is you claim can't possibly be a degree program. If it is, it's in the same class as a degree in stained glass or Russian studies - ie, useless).

--Outlaw.

yeah well the subject lasted 1 year but i repeated 4 times since it was very tuff

are you afraid of someone you look down on having same or more preparation than you?

tell me whats wrong in this then:


the vapur pressure differnce bewteen top and bottom with a gradient of five degrees its 100 kpa

this means the wheel can work with 10 m diametrum on a 5 º gradient

how much work is that for kg of r12?

1*10*10=100 J

whats the internal energy difference for 5 º WITH R12

http://energy.sdsu.edu/testhome/Test...C/TSatR12.html
around 2000 J/kg in the best case

around 5000 j/kg in the worst case


U variation=Q-W
2000=Q-100


Q=2100


eficiency=w/q=100/2100=4.7% eficiency
in the worst case: 100/5100=2%

maximum eficiency for carnot?


1-cold focus/hot focus=1.3%

Because it just is not that simple you may have studied it 5 times but you clearly still haven't learnt it, I suggest you try again.

Yes we can at least agree thermodynamics is a tough topic but then that goes on to prove that your primary school calculations are nowhere near the complexity required to work out thermodynamic engine efficiency... If you had studied it then you would admit that at least wtf...

yeah thats the typical thing:

in the end they confuse you so much that you say yeah all righ i dont understand it but i accept it since someone smarter saw it

if my calculations are primary school it wont be difficult to tell where theyre wrong

edit(its funny you say mine is not valid cause its simple you want something you cant undertand)

for example in college it woundlnt be tolerated i dint calculate the title of liquid vs vapour

well i didnt need i got a maximum and a minimum , eficiency must be between

yet the minimum of it is above carnots eficiency

shouldn i belive myself

should i belive others above myself cause i admit im dumb and theyre smart

no way educational system is mind control brainwashing into truning people into sheep

thats like i have a degree in nautics and other in english

yeah right so they castrated the parts of my mind that have to deal with that i better keep to art a virgin part of my mind that hasnt been told yet how things are and what i must paint or sculpt:mad:

You say you have a degree in English yet you struggle to write a coherent sentence.

You have a degree in "nautics" yet I doubt you could point a ship north even with the aid of a compass let alone guide a ship into a shipping lane.

Why can't I tell you where you went wrong, well maybe it's because you were wrong from the very start I have no idea where you get your info from it just doesn't make any logical sense.... Try again but you clearly need to get your books out before you do.

We get it raaiid your an idealist but you can't just go around saying everything that we have been taught is wrong and when asked why and how you came to that conclusions you say it's because 1+1 actually = 3 not 2 and then when anybody voices there scepticism you tell them that they have being brain washed!!!

Think before you post for crying out loud!

Bah... your right Uther how did I let myself get drawn into this farce!!!

He certainly has a degree in BS

1 year? That's 2 full semesters of thermo. Do you seriously expect us to believe that it takes 2 semesters of thermodynamics to get a "nautics" degree?

Not at all.


I never looked at any of your calculations nor have I disputed any of them. There's no need to look at them because the results of your calcs. are meaningless The problem you are complaining about does not exist. Nothing you have mentioned has EVER been suppressed. It's simply not worth suppressing.

--Outlaw.

1st time I believe every single word of yours.

yeah but the fact is:

i did a VERY SIMPLE calculation and neither can you show where its wrong nor give a better one

why should i even listen to you when you dont even listen to me but have a prejudgement

well outlaw if it was other person i wouldnt mind but weve know for years and i see you as a friend now so i care what you think, i dont feel good thinking im a liar so check this out:

http://i40.photobucket.com/albums/e222/raaaid/st1.jpg
http://i40.photobucket.com/albums/e222/raaaid/st2.jpg
http://i40.photobucket.com/albums/e222/raaaid/st3.jpg
http://i40.photobucket.com/albums/e222/raaaid/st4.jpg
http://i40.photobucket.com/albums/e222/raaaid/st5.jpg
http://i40.photobucket.com/albums/e222/raaaid/st6.jpg
http://i40.photobucket.com/albums/e222/raaaid/st7.jpg
http://i40.photobucket.com/albums/e222/raaaid/st8.jpg

raaaid for godsake take your meds!!

why there were several people syaing i was lying about my degrees

whtas crazy about proving youre not a lier?

edit:

and whats the point of that comment of course i have my meds

why you on the other end dont try to be abit less normal

are you proud to be normal in this psicotic war where the biggest busines is war?