P-51D into DCS Sims.
 

As you can see Some people are already adjusting themselves to WW2. Lets hope Luthier can sort this game out soon.

Meh....1 flyable plane isn't going to pose a massive threat

I know, it's just that it could easily develop into more if it's successful. We do not need the user base splitting if this sim is to have a chance.

Why does a user base have to split, personally I buy 'all' flight sims and play them all.

WOW that is cool!

Thanks for the info!

it looks awesome, can we shoot stuff?

Not everyone does though. I own ROF and CLOD so I do not have DCS, the reason is time and the other 100s of games I own on steam. I might be fretting about nothing but that's because we have not had a good start.

I guess so....but only other P-51's or A10's.......maybe they will have some AI....dunno

DCS series are study sims.

High realism in the cockpit, and in the models.

They are not multiplayer oriented combat sims.

At the rate they release new aircraft and maps it would take 20 years for them to cover one theater of operations. And that does not include developing good multiplayer online coding.

They pose no threat to the IL2 franchise.

I doubt I would buy it just for the P51, as jets have no interest to me beyone the Korean War period. Too many darned buttons.

But I wish them well, they do make a quality, if limited, product.

At this time there is only 3 good combat flight sim makers.. 1C, 777, and DCS. DCS does some amazing things in thier sims.. If they apply that to a WWII sim.. man.. makes the blood rush out of my head just thinking about it!

Judging by the performance of the last patch, I wouldn't qualify CLOD as "online friendly". Since the last patch I wasn't able to keep the game running (online) for more than an hour and half.
This is my usual online experience this days. We take three 110's with bombs, warm them up and head for enemy targets. During the mission at least two of us drop out with a game crash. Rinse and repeate.

I wouldn't call this a good online game.

some of the best online flight simming I have ever done was in a DCS game.. Only problem with it is there are so few online games and people playing DCS games

I'd be happy with a game that purely had 2 fly-ables. E.g. Spit vs bf109/FW190.

The planes would be modeled to the max, with every button, lever, dial and switch working. CEM would be as real as it can possibly get.

With COD and IL2 it's nice to fly all those different aircraft but for the majority of the time I fly just 2 types. It would prefer a developer who concentrated getting just two planes right and not spending so much time making other aircraft, which spreads the quality of the aircraft out thinly.

In an ideal world the Flight Sim studios would band together to make a unified game engine and then each of them concentrated on making one plane to fly in it.

The problem with DCS is the way they release aircraft and the completely random choices of aircraft.
You don't fire up people to fly online, when you have a Russian Hellicopter on one side and an American Attack Aircraft. You can't create a good competitive online environment this way.

The P-51 is a completely retarded choice as the next DCS plane. :rolleyes:
There's nothing in their sim at the moment to create a good scenario for that aircraft. Anything more or less modern, would be right at home, with all the stuf already modeled.
Now they'll throw in a ww2 aircraft to go with the S300, Tunguska and the A-10. What a logical choice.:rolleyes:

You could have a whole series of sims like that...

Spit vs 109
P51 vs 190
Spit vs 109 midwar
Zero vs hellcat


i would pay for a sim that did that...

Agreed

it wouldn't be unreasonable to guess DCS will produce an axis plane in the future and using the usual online compatability we would get something similar.

Hmmm sounds too much like a dogfight game for my liking, we would need some bombers.

They'd still have to produce the maps and the vehicles going with that. And that would mean removing ressources from their core game.

I mean, if 1c suddenly started producing modern jet fighters instead of adding to the WW2 theatre, I personally would go through the roof. I can only imagine how it must be for the DCS crowd looking for some decent online play.

Without an alternative, I would play it as well. But I'd not be happy. The strengh of the IL2 franchise always has been the inclusion of more dubious types of aircraft thrown together. The setup as described here is getting so old that it hurts.

Give me I16s, IL2s, IAR80s, Mig3s and Fiats instead.

Competition is a very, very good thing.

:cool:

I'll buy it.

I was looking for BlackShark vs. A10 online videos and did not find any. Looks like they did not provide any good online missions for them.

Doesn't MSFS have a P-51 addon with similar quality?

Yup. But not with working weapons and no damage model.

Lates screen shots over at DCS shows their P-51's .50 cals spewing lead.

I guess they'll also have bombs and rockets.

Just no proper historically correct targets to use them on

Yes, but unlike CloD, the DCS engine works.

So it's ahead of the game there.

I'd settle for one plane and a game that works really well than a sim with a dozen that doesn't work.

I mainly fly DCS and consider myself as a member of the DCS community. The developers stated multiple times that the development of the usual modern jets is not being impaired by the Flying legends models. Of course it doesn't really make sense to send a P-51 to destroy a S-300 which would engage you at a distance of 40 miles, but they'll probably throw in some WWII AI models. Besides that, DCS has multiple nations in it, so you could for example create a scenario which contains the Brazilian Armed Forces as allies with the US against Russia. As far as I'm concerned the brazilians used or maybe still use the P-51 as a CAS plane. I'm not sure if this information is right since I only read it at the DCS forums. But if that's really the case, you would have a scenario which actually would make sense regarding the planeset.

The general mood in the DCS community is of course a little bit split, but everybody (at least I hope so) knows that ED mainly works on the next jet and the Flying Legends series is just a sideproject because of the publisher. The publisher is the owner of a large collection of historical WWII planes, e.g. a FW190, P-51 so they had a really good opportunity to research things.

bingo!
100%

Based on this picture it looks like the answer is yes

http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7162/6...aae6d82d_b.jpg

Ops! Brazilians use P-47 for CAS in WWII as part of USAAF 350th Fighter Group in MTO.
Today they still operating prop driven planes against the Narcotrafic, Recon and CAS:
The EMB-314 (A-29/29B) Super Tucano - likely to be used by USAF LAS programn.

Sokol1

This is pretty cool, but I'm still waiting for dedicated server files that ED promised they were working on back when A10 was a beta. If you can't run a dedicated server for MP use, (not a home computer with a crappy home network) then the game doesn't do much for me. I think I've flown DCS for about 2 hours total and it was very bland just because of the lack of full scale MP or options for it.

The jet is an SU25.

I'd buy it just to look at the box and wish I could play it, wouldn't be the first time that happened either. (Aces over Europe wouldn't run on the old 486 for some reason, had it for years before I could play it.)

i think i will buy it just because of the realism level they are famous for.i dont own any of their sims yet, but i think i will soon buy the a10 cause what i heard and read about them, is that they are really focusing on realism.

thats the biggest problem i have now with 1c.
in real life i wouldnt even know how to start up a 109, because i couldnt find the i button in the cockpit.
it also puzzles me that 1c made decisions, which made the game more arcade than it already was.(step backwards in my view)
like the prop pitch of the 109 for example, which should reach from 6-12 o clock.if i remember correctly, in the release version it just was like that, but then they changed it for some strange reason.
the same with the realistic behaviour of the compasses.
because a view complain about the challenge to navigate, they decide to make the thing steady but less realistic.
or the magnetos in the 109, which since the latest patch, suddenly jump up automatically if one pushes i.
those decisions are really distracting me from this game, as i want the game to head for the oposite direction.....realism.

i heard that dcs is exactly that...realistic.so i will give it a try soon.

And then there's this.....

http://flyawaysimulation.com/news/43...osoft-studios/

MS Flight, similar marketing model to RoF. Free to download with a couple of aircraft and more to buy apparently. Very limited on terrain at Launch ("Spring 2012") but targeting a broader audience than hard core simmers whilst providing 'full switch' flying for those that want it.

Will be interesting. No combat of course.

Agreed! One more Spitfire or 109 model and I might actually throw up. I want French planes, Italian planes, semi-obscure Russian planes so on so fourth. I hope the IL-2 series will be more diverse in planesets in the future expan-quels.

Yes, interesting. A lot of adverse comments since no SDK will be released and hence no 3rd party content.

S!

I own quite a bit of games from ED and their predecessor SSI. Always been good quality. Seeing them adding P51D is great and makes you eagerly wait for the next Flying Legend..I would wish for Bf109 and Fw190 :)

So bring it on :) Never too many sims to fly :)

since were talking about another sim here.....has anybody tried x plane 10 so far?
im interested in civil flight sims, and would like to know how it is, before blindly purchasing it.i watched some vids on youtube, and the look of it is covincing.but
how much does it focus on realism?
i have for example microsoft flight sim x professional, but somehow feel that the flight physics feel a bit arcadish even on max realism settings.

I've never been particularily impressed by X-plane, gui is not very intuitive, 3d cockpits are rare, I paid for 9, don't want to pay again just to have 10, it will be the same story when 11 is released.
In terms of realism I guess it's pretty good, they focus very hard on accurate flight modelling.

Same here and the terrain is really naff unless you want to pay out for add-ons. Many people say the FM is far superior to FSX but FSX has such a wide base now you can get almost anything you want, much of it free. I like it for simple flying around over the photo terrain I added although the MS terrain is better than X-plane IMHO. Since I'm not dogfighting or doing serious aerobatics I don't notice any 'faults' in the FM. Its more than adequate. I will get Flight when it comes out just to see what the final release is like.

They are consciously targetting a different market, trying to pull 'gamers' towards 'simulation'.

Thanks for the news on the upcoming DCS P-51! It's my favourite airplane, the cockpit shots look awesome!

can i ask you? why you like this plane?
It's not beautiful, bad maneuverable characteristics, but good speed.
Why this plane?:confused:

Why not....theres something for everyone in this world.

I rather think I'll buy that.

Best answer;-)explains it all/

I'll probably support this one as well. The trouble is though, if it turns out to be modelled far more realistically than CloD and you enjoy using all the new bells and whsitles then it won't feel great going back to a simplified CloD model.

I am pleased with what 1c have given us in terms of CEM. However, I do think they need to tweak things a bit to make the figures match the manuals more accurately and add a few missing elements such as parking brake, priming etc. for those who like it full real.

The feeling of flight and superb sound of CloD will really take some beating in my opinion. I was bobbing around in the water the other day and was totally enthralled listening to a dogfight overhead - incredibly real. The new sound guy really deserves a medal.

Once they fix the outstanding issues then CloD should be hard to compete with - huge maps, large number of period objects and aircraft etc. Attention to detail.....

everything you described in the last half of your post 'won't' happen in the DCS sim, you will get a P-51 to fly and that's it.

I think you're right there bongodriver. Still, a bit of competition on the realism front might keep 1c on their toes. I know for a fact that things like priming will have zero effect on game performance as the code only needs to run pre-startup. Great for immersion though - I'd love to be able to flood my engine through sloppy priming. They really are so close to the full startup procedure that it seems crazy not to go the full distance - with options of course for those who like things simpler.

S!

Well if ED models that P51D in same detail as their other planes like A10C then we will have a nice plane to fly around with. And with modelling I mean all switches etc. working. :)

I've been tooling around in FSX flying both the P-51b and P-51d from Warbirdsim. The plane models are amazing, fully the equal to CoDs in my opinion. But, I find myself wishing for an equally amazing damage model, guns and air combat. If ANYONE can produce a flightsim with those ingredients using A2A or Warbirdsim product as a base, I'm there. I think a lot of us feel an allegiance to IL2 to the extreme we don't think anyone else can do a WWII flightsim accurately. At this point, I think the market is there if someone has the ability to step in.

It's not about plane modelling only, however, it is the whole WW2 setting. And frankly, I rather have a larger collection of different aircraft, even if not detailed to the last bit, then only a very few ones with so many buttons that managing it becomes a choir.

Think I found the DCS orginal therad on this topic

DCS: P-51D Mustang Coming in 2012

It has a few more pictures too

http://forums.eagle.ru/attachment.ph...9&d=1327155684

S!

So by the looks of it the DCS Mustang will be modelled very carefully from FM/DM to avionics and cockpit instrumentation and procedures :) Great news indeed! We are in for a treat from many fronts!

Same here.. Blan not becuse of the sim but because of the limited number of people playing it online and ho hum missions.

IMHO it is the best modern sim out!

I will say this, the few times that I was logged in with a good group of people (BlackShark days) it was hella fun! So the potential is there.. Just not enough people playing it online to hold my interest. Part of which is due to the fact that the DCS stuff has a LARGE LEARNING CURVE! So, maybe this P-51 with it's smaller learning curve will draw some simmers into the rest of the game

So, um, what are you supposed to do with the P 51 in DCS?

It has no purpose.

It has no ability in the modern combat space other than to look pretty.

I just don't understand it in the context of the rest of that sim.

Help a luddite out here.

Where are the Bombers to protect?
Where are the historical Groundtargets to attack?
Where are the historical correct Opponents?

apparently that doesn't matter too much as long as theres buttons to press and it's not made by 1C.

And this one, will most probably have fm/dm correctly re-produced.. and they will fix it if they don't... as they always comes through with the best..... **see Ka-50 and A-10C**

Pay them money for it.

To generate as much money with as little time and effort wasted as possible.

They're hoping that people don't think too long about that and instead say, "OH MY GOD! P-51 with super realism! Must have!"

Making an aircraft is time consuming, but just as time consuming is making missions, campaigns, and enemies for it to shoot down and blow up. This is just a "treat" for people who want a historical prop plane to tool around in.

A2A made a lot of really awesome combat aircraft for FSX. The problem is that you can only fly it around for so long before people get ticked off that they can't do any combat with their combat aircraft. DCS is hoping to get some of those disenfranchised people who dropped money on A2A aircraft to drop money on this, with the vague promise they can shoot and bomb stuff with it. Don't expect to see 109's for it to shoot down, this was a proof of concept that they decided could help them pay the bills until their next modern combat aircraft add-on is done.

Note DCS said

So until the make more.. I guess only hardcore P51 guys will buy it.. Or maybe they can make a mission where they attack a 3rd world S hole that has P51s as thier main airforce! ;)

Over reaction and simplification running a muck in this thread. Hasn't the mantra been here support the product and good things happen? Why should it be any different with another sim until proven otherwise? As Ace said this is supposed to be but the beginning.

S!

Exactly. I will for sure get the Flying Legends planes as released. DCS is the benchmark in combat sims, modern that is, bar none. Falcon is excellent too. Really do not see the reason to muck DCS for making these planes. As said before..if they model with the same fidelity as A10C etc. it will be a joy to operate them.

Were all for supporting the genre, not sure how trashing COD and promoting every other sim is going to help here though.

as much as i could be interested in this, the DCS world is not really a WW2 scenario, and as people said before, whats there too shoot at?

im sorry, but if i wanted this product i would go for the acusim p51 ( i think there is one).

I don't think I've said anything in this thread trashing CoD. As to promoting other sims, I agree with the other posters about competition being good. We all get complacent and need a push sometimes. If Luthier and his people feel that market share might slip away due to another product then I assume they're savvy enough to up the ante with their own.

and what do u shoot there?

nothing. waht i said was precisely that. if i wanted a simulator to fly the plane with no actual combat, i would buy accusim p51.

But at least you have the option to shoot stuff in the DCS version..

Granted it might require you to think out of the box a little.. But I know for a fact there are dogfight servers in HL where both sides have the same planes, thus you will see P51 vs P51 senarions in those IL2 df servers..

So what is so crasy about DCS server with two sides and only P51s to fly?

That and I can remember back 20 years or so when Chuck Yeager's Air Combat (CYAC) came out where you could pit WWI, WWII, KOREA and moden planes against each other. It was a hoot!

CYAC

Or like I allready mentioned.. what about a strike force of say 5 F-15s attacking a 3rd world S hole with an airforce of 30 old P51s.. I think that would be fun for funs sake! ;)

Sorry it wasn't aimed at you, I just quoted you for context, I agree competition is good but don't feel the DCS sim is really going to do it, it's really only going to compete with the A2A and accusim add ons.

[QUOTE=ACE-OF-ACES;383207]But at least you have the option to shoot stuff in the DCS version..

Granted it might require you to think out of the box a little.. But I know for a fact there are dogfight servers in HL where both sides have the same planes, thus you will see P51 vs P51 senarions in those IL2 df servers..


well, thats all possabilities. but not to my likes. same plane scenarios are usually used for duels or for lolz, and bot thsoe things are not my favourite in il2.

but hey, pheraps this will spice luthier a bit and COD will start working :grin:

yawn

That's ambigous ;-)

Not sure where/why people are confused about a DCS P-51D "fitting". Just like the DCS games before it AI opponents at first with co-op multiplayer, or combat with other human Mustang pilots. Subtract SAMs and and maybe BMPs you'll have plenty of viable ground targets. Even them building WWII era ground units probably wouldn't be too tasking. P-51Ds engaging CAS level jets isn't even too far fetched, given P-51Cs successfully engaged and destroyed ME-262s. Which on paper (and accuracy of wikipedia) was quite comparable performance-wise to A10s and SU25s.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RSWEO...layer_embedded

+1

hey klem...
honestly i didnt know that there is free stuff for microsoft flight simulator x.i always thought that every additional content would be payware.
could you maybe lead me to a site where free content is available?would be nice.i searched the web, but didnt find anything which seemed to be right at the first glance.
thx in advance.

Here you go mate. You'll need to register at the site and then go to the 'Files' tab. There are some excellent free downloads. Airports, aircraft, scenery. The Tiger Moth and Goshawk T-45 are particularly fine. Enjoy!

http://www.flightsim.com/

P.S. Once you're in there, there is so much stuff it's easier to search to see if what you're looking for is available, than looking through every page. ;)

Limited Product? Really?
 

Ummm Wrong.... The DCS A10 is very much Multiplayer oriented... The P-51 is one legend aircraft and their will be others added...With the right maps anything is possible so with the right aircraft...You could easily write Coop missions for say ...WWII engagements

Right now our small squad does MP Coops all the time in A10, The KA-50 Blackshark was recently merged and soon I believe FC3 will be as well. There is also another jet being added which we hope will be the F18 with Carrier OPs... So you have 3 Sims that can join together if you have any one of them, plus the coming new Fixed Wing and Legends Series. The DCS concept is leaps and bounds ahead of everyone else... and Shock...they work. For instance... We flew a mission the other night with 6 humans...3 were in A10s and 3 were in KA-50s...two different Sims flying the same mission in the same server... Also a new Nellis Map is about to be added.... So maps can be done in less than 20 years...Ha!

With the P-51 and others to come all we need is a map and WWII Missions will happen. DCS has it right...their products work and I doubt it would take 20 years... Since you are not intersted and do not fly them..your lack of understanding is understood. Sure there are lots of buttons...I have at least 52...but it does not take long to master them if you fly alot. These "study sims" are the ticket if you want immersion...

From Matt Wagner: The Fighter Collection and Eagle Dynamics will release their next Digital Combat Simulator (DCS) aircraft in 2012: the legendary P-51D Mustang. The Mustang was among the best and most well-known fighters used by the U.S. Army Air Forces during World War II. Possessing excellent range and manoeuvrability, the P-51 operated primarily as a long-range escort fighter and also as a ground attack fighter-bomber with bombs, rockets, and machine guns. The Mustang served in nearly every combat zone during WWII, and later fought in the Korean War.

The DCS: P-51D Mustang will be modelled at the same exacting detail as the existing Ka-50 Black Shark and A-10C Warthog Digital Combat Simulation (DCS) aircraft and it will be online compatible with them. Based on many years of restoring, flying and maintaining Mustangs, The Fighter Collection brings its unique ability to portray this aircraft in its full glory.

The P-51D will be the first aircraft in the Flying Legends series that focuses on historical aircraft that have set benchmarks in combat aviation. This series of simulations demonstrates the broad scope of DCS simulation environment and its ability to introduce aircraft from all eras into a common simulation environment. While the P-51D started as an internal technology demonstration, it has evolved into an independent product that adds an all new dimension to the DCS universe. The development of the P-51D and other Flying Legends series aircraft definitely does not preclude the continued development of modern aircraft.

Maybe in the next few months or years CLOD will work without freezing or Crashing...Here's hoping it doesn't take that long ...but hey..they have only been working on CLOD for 11 years now.... :cool:

Here's another
http://www.sim-outhouse.com/sohforums/index.php
again you have to register but there's no agenda.

there's more, just google "fsx free downloads"

There's a huge FS2004/FSX community ut there.

Here's one of the most popular development sites
http://www.fsdeveloper.com/

The game looks good , i'll give it a try!

I hope they create some WW2 era aircraft to fly against.

How can the game be muliplayer orientated when you can't even run a MP dedicated server for it? Every server needs to have a video card to even launch MP. That's about as far from MP orientated as it gets. Most hosters, like us for instance, run high end dual cpu rack mounted machines that are connected to a an internet trunk line - aka 10gpbs etc. to handle server traffic. With any DCS game you have to do all of this with basically a home machine that must have a video card and then you'll be on crappy tiered down home network connections. Sorry, but that isn't MP orientated at all.

Well, I've been flying COOP multiplayer missions in DCS:A-10 for more than a year with basically zero problems. Honestly wish I could say the same about CloD.

I'm pretty sure the Mustang will be a great addition to the DCS series, as will other aircraft that will be added in time.

Yeah, I heard COOP works just fine. But, IMO, full scale MP is 50-100 humans all on the same server. I personally don't care for COOPs at all. But maybe one day they'll finally release their dedi server files they promised that they were working on back when DCSA10 was a beta, and then we can finally have a full scale MP in DCS. But I don't think it's gonna happen anytime soon.

I'll probably buy the 51 addon, but just like A10, I'll probably only fly it a few hours because of the lack of MP.

thx Atag Dutch and thx Klem for your links!

DCS wip (in game engine)
http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7170/6...07a60fdd_o.png

MG wip 2008 (in 3D tools)
http://download.softclub.ru/pub/il2p...20grab0003.jpg

Sorry to mention it, but DCS is not an IL-2 mod. The thread was published in CloD forum originally.

There is server software called 'servman' available at the DCS forums/website, that lets you set a computer to run a scripted server..

if you want details about it, you can check it out,,, and no, you do not need to run the game in full mode to run the server... but you do need a full licensed copy of the sim to run servman,, it installs into the sims folder..

and while it was cleared up, a few posts back, weeks ago, that multiplayer is alive and well, with missions, campaigns and more int he DCS series.. I also wanted to let this be known..
ands while here, I am very excited about the coming release of the DCS P-51 ! Let us find out how it really flew... with the most realistic P-51 sim ever modelled, we will most likely find out how it really flies/flew... (I will stop here...).... and what might have been had the corrections been made in the IL-2 series after at least 6 years of begging for fixes..

Sorry, with the many hundreds of hours I have spent online in Lock On FC and DCS I would have to disagree.

Why, just this Saturday coming we have a mission setup using FC2 with approx 50 players with players from all over, Russia, Canada Europe etc. I have helped organize many online missions with 60+ players.

Is MP perfect in DCS? Of course not, but there is a lot done well. There is no dedicated server for example, but there is solid net code. You can setup a server with a dedicated GFX card in a server farm with a great connection. We did it for years.

There is a reason why the Virtual Blue Angels for example use FC2 for close formation flying. If you got low ping to the server, it is buttery smooth. http://www.virtualblueangels.com/

I must admit after hundreds of hours in FC2, I am looking for something new, which is why I like IL2 ClOD a lot. The DCS A10 and Ka-50 are arguably the best simulated aircraft ever realeased to the PC, but I am a fighter guy, and I am waiting (forever) for DCS:Fighter Jet.

DCS-P51D is kind of a side project for ED. I am sure it will be excellent. It won't, however, be simulating a full WWII theater.

(oh and what Ramstein said to damn it :) )

I have a Fx-60 with a GtX260 and 4G of ram. The thing flies like a champ. Even on low settings it look decent. The FM is crazy. Fully featured. Click able pit if you want. Every control on a p-51 modeled. Every one. If they decide to run with this and get somebdecentn3rd patty support and can release new AC under nthebRO model then this could take off (no pun intended) like a rocket. Very well done DCS.

mmmmmmmmmmmmm,

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s_XYOF33zsA

i hope this is whats next, but maybe just a hack.

Looks sweet, again loads of controls and mapped buttons...lose interest fast

modern combat sims just don't do it for me though I still buy them just to have a look at them now and then :)

oh i agree!

However i'd get that just to have a quick blast of flying something with that power and fm. Low level in that, has got to be fun!

"Didn't replace any other aircraft. It IS the E-model made flyable. For some reason though in World when you make another plane flyable it gives the Su-25T pit, no matter what. I'm working on it though. ;)"

DCS may just make me start liking those jets ...... ;)

DCS.....a10 p51. .... is awesome ...but so it clifs of Dover , the new patch has made it playable for me , fingers crossed, more to cum ..lol

DCS confirms flyable fw 190 d-9 with AFM, right?

although i not have this game and no news about russian version, and personally i prefer Antons by some reasons (interesting plane, good performance even with correct modelling and different equipment, number of guns, bombs etc), nevertheless, it's very interesting - combat SIMULATOR of 2 famous opponents with AFM - and with similar loads d-9 apparently only correct choice, because in DCS p-51 with 25 lbs? and have lot of information exactly about Ds...

i can only dream about yak and bf 109 with high level of details and normal graphic visualisation...

and this is in addition to f-86 and mig-15...

looks like little dream...:)

Too bad DCS has no correct map, or any other anything for a proper scenario with the P-51 and D9.

True unfortunately, but it will offer us the best dogfight between those 2 planes there's ever been, by a huge margin.

DCS P51 is fantastic to fly, and i can't wait for the D9 to go with it personally, although its not going to be any time soon.

I can't for the life of me think why anyone who is a flight sim enthusiast wouldn't want them both.

For me, those plus CloD with the forthcoming Team Fusion patch are the best we are likely to see for some time.

I'm not buying an entire jet sim just to have one perfectly modeled P 51.

I do understand that it is a great virtual aircraft, but there is a LOT more to a great sim than just having all the right levers and knobs working.

Besides, I have no use for modern BVR jet combat.

Not my cup of tea.