Please Implement Steam VAC as soon as practicable...
 

The title says it all.

I've seen some posts here and there in which people have talked about peeking in what should be locked up tight DDS files.

This has to stop now.

+1
Excellent idea!


Now that we have finally servers (I know of ATAG and REPKA, surely there are others which I do not know) that are capable to handle a lot of players (we were 55 last time in ATAG) it is time to ensure that the playing field stays level for all players.

~S~


PS. I have nothing against people peeking (and poking) things in their private time.
I just want when I meet a Spitfire online, to meet a Spitfire (and no F16).

I don't care if it's a G.50, I don't want to meet any hacked FMs online.

Sadly I think we are already past this point.

I'm reluctant to ascribe to cheating what can otherwise be ascribed to my own flying incompetence but listening on teamspeak it is clear that more experience players are convinced that this is happening.

I'd like to see some tracks.

+1 to VAC.

But it highlights the importances of releasing the SDK's so legitimate modders can create content without having to hack FM and make changes that could be called into question. Then (hopefully) the server administrators will be able allow or disable the mods.


Interesting topic.

+1 to VAC, as long as I can continue to use InjectFXAA or InjectSMAA. It really makes a huge difference...

Regards.

+1 to VAC, and FXAA

I know nothing of DDS files, but a google says that DDS files are DirectDraw Surface graphics file format which was established by Microsoft for use with the DirectX SDK. The format is specifically designed for use in real-time rendering applications, such as 3D games. It can be used to store textures, cubemaps, mipmap levels, and allows for compression. Publicly available DDS plugins are available for photoshop & gimp, so there's no secret here. I doubt that DDS files hold the FM's.

I have seen two posts were someone mentioned being able to see things that if changed would be a bad thing for online play.

Also, some players from the east are already tinkering with FMs, and playing online.

So, I'm done till VAC is implemented.

It took years for IL2 to be hacked, mere months for CLOD.

Luthier, stop this now.

This is great!
Mods are what made IL2 live as long and healthy a life as it has had, and maybe well finally get some corrected FM's for, well, just about everything! Lol!

Or just make your own FM....

Bad News


JD
AKA_MattE

Of course it's bad news *if true*. You would end up flying against vanilla and UFOs and everything in between.

It's apparently via Kegetys' extractor. I am not sure if this would be picked up by VAC. Sure hope so or online dogfighting will go downhill fast.

What exactly does VAC check ?

Don't know is the short answer but I understand it checks file integrity (could be wrong or incomplete): http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Valve_Anti-Cheat

The risk with enabling VAC is that non-cheaters would also get banned. Given the history of CoD development this would not be surprising and I think the devs are wise enough to realise this. I seem to remember Luthier saying something similar a few months ago, that VAC would not be enabled until the game was stable.

If Il2 didn't had stayed un-hacked so long, it would never had reached its ripe age.

Toward the end the hack/mods prolonged the end, but also split the community.

Imho.

Gents, let's not devolve into a mods vs. vanilla discussion OK?

That is not what this is about. We already know that mods will be welcomed once the SDK is released and the system for secure mod free servers is sorted. I have no issue with that.

This is about people making online UFOs and flying them NOW. On servers that have no ability to exclude them.

It's happening, it's real, and it has nothing to do with mod making. It's a group of juvenile delinquents ruining the gameplay of regular users.

And another reason why I stay High fighting AI...lol

This!

Is there any physical evidence of this, something like a track? I know I haven't been flying much lately, but the only UFO's I am dealing with are Spit IIa's. Maybe I am just being lucky...

Regards.

I play practically every day at ATAG and Repka dogfight servers and I have yet to encounter any UFO FMs, unless you count Spit IIa :-D

\not sure about that.

FM's were always carefully preserved by the responsible modding community in IL2. Look back at the old AAA to see what I mean. Players streaking round in 600 MPH 109's is the last thing this already troubled game needs.

It could very well be a Spit Ia with 'altered' FM now...

I heared some eastern players talking about making the Ia's with the engine it's suposed to have compared to the Rotol Hurricans.

Source?

VAC is a server side setting enabled or disabled in confs.ini. Repka has it disabled up till now to avoid another possible reason for instability.

In case the thread is addressed to the devs but not to server owners, the title should be more specific I think because luthier knows that it is a server side setting. Maybe he will read this thread though http://forum.1cpublishing.eu/showthread.php?t=28341 Worth rising the issue there if there is one.

BTW Spit 1a mod is available in the mod section for many months already. Using it online can lead to loosing your Steam account.

This. I have not seen any track or video where Spit 1a outruns a 109 or 109 outturns a Spit either. Nowadays it is pretty easy to have a video-proof of someone cheating, e.g. real-time web-TV services.

I do agree that if VAC does not work in the game at all it has to be fixed though. If ATAG has VAC enabled maybe someone who have a 2nd copy of a game can test if VAC works.

Regarding VAC and FXAA I have a quistion. In the reedme file it says

Is it legal to use or not and do you lose your Steam accound?

Thanks

Thanks Cheesehawk

I have been using them ass well with great enjoy, but I was just a bit concern, if VAC took care of me some day using it ;)

I hope they allow it, becarse you then have a chance to setup AA, color and contrast that fits your monitor and graphics card.

~S~

Ofcourse some sort of VAC or IC, is needed and good, but, I never have seen ANY hacked or strange behaving on ATAG server, and I fly most times against our eastern friends, who get always attacked on other forums as well.

There is so far I know and have seen nothing rong, and it is AT the TIME to stop false comments against other players who are just better then others.

The insinuations and behavior of mediocres and frustrated pilots ruins the game much more than the alleged cheating

The way i see it working in other games (eg Team Fortress 2) is that each server can decide which mods to allow/run. If you join a TF2 server that uses a mod then the mod is not only allowed, but also automatically downloaded and installed for you. If you join a regular server, the mod just stays inactive.

As for CoD, i haven't seen any suspicious behaviour but then again i'm not a regular onliner by any stretch.

In regards to what is allowed on CoD servers, i just run a vanilla install to be on the safe side of things, but if you run any harmless mods you can check your VAC status from within the Steam client.

The way i understand it, VAC doesn't ban you outright. What happens is that it collects data over a period of time and when the "season" ends, they ban the accounts with the highest number of offenses.

If you want to check your VAC standing just open your client, click on the steam menu and select settings. On the account tab, 3rd line from the top, you can see your VAC status. If you've been using something like FXAA mods for a long time and it still says "in good standing", then it's safe to assume that either VAC doens't mind or our servers don't have VAC enabled.

In any case, i guess that as soon as VAC is enabled our helpful server hosts will post here and on their forums to let us know what is allowed and what is not.

NO, the server host will enable/disable it, but have no control beyond that. It will be Luthier and team who have to tell us what is allowed and what is not (he mentioned in a post that anti-aliasing won't get you banned, cheating will).

well, this scheme made counter strike totally unplayable for me, since there are barely no servers without mods, and i cant stand the fact that every server has its own, 10 min long mod pack...

i'd ahte too se this implemented in il2...

+100000000000000000000000000000000...

True (but where do comments like "already available in mods" from reputable posters come from?)

If this is happening or is going to happen then a VAC system is essential. Mods using the SDK should be submitted for approval and incorporated into the formally released game through Steam. If fools want to create an uber aircrfaft so that they can convince themselves they 'are a fighter pilot' then lets exclude them on serious servers. Give us some kind of VAC system even if that means when Luthier draws that line in the sand that we have to uninstall to clean up and re-install.

Give serious servers the means to lock it down. Let the kids go to the kindergarten.

In CS you can turn off "download custom content".

99% of servers work just fine this way.

ATAG Team Speak talken on there with them.

Its not like that much anymore.
Everyone has acknowledged that many of the FM's were off, and with UP3/DBW and even HSFX5+ new, better, dare I say researched FM's have begun to replace the inferior stockers.
Check out the work of guys like Achen and kwiatek. Very good stuff.

The development team cannot possibly know every mod that will get created and it would be extremely unfair to expect them to vet each and every mods that any Joe Blow knocks together on their lunch break to put on an 'allow list'.

They have better things to do like fix bugs and develop new content for the series.

Who knows, maybe an entity like Team-D will gets chosen as an official mod source. That would be a bit of a blow for the rest of the modding community.

It's not the 'responsible modding community' that people are worried about. It's the others


Cheers!

Well, then maybe we could have a server-side mods list, something like the difficulty settings that the server enforces, but for mods.

And in order not to have to filter/block each mod individually, it could work like this:
"filter set all mods to off, unless a mod is part of the allowed list".

This way they would only have to place the allowed mods on their list and everything else would be automatically blocked. Then, if that was bypassed it could raise a flag that alerts VAC ;)

I was responding the point regarding VAC bans, not general modding, however... VAC is triggered with dll injection or exe modification/replacement (actual file replacement and/or modification in memory). Most mods will not exhibit this behavior and will not cause VAC to repond so there is no need to vet each and every mod.

More info about VAC
https://support.steampowered.com/kb_...hp?p_faqid=370
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Valve_Anti-Cheat

Gents, gents, gents...

This isn't about Mods, it's about hacks, or more appropriately, cheating.

Devolving the conversation into a mods discussion will only serve to deflect from the real issue here.

The online aspect of the sim is at risk, not from mods, but from blatant hacking.

There needs to be a system implemented to stop it. Currently there isn't one.

That's all this is about.

We all have the right to lose to a non hacked aircraft, not to serve as cannon fodder for some idiot who thinks he's cool because he can manipulate the code and get away with it.

I agree 100%, VAC should be enabled.

But where is the proof that this has happened? Have you fought someone who was cheating?

Why would someone need proof to ask for or have VAC enabled? The Idea of VAC is (hopefully) to maintain the integrity of the game, isn’t that a good enough reason in and of itself, why would one need to prove anything?


JD
AKA_MattE

On a similar topic, what's the white rubbish that streams from some 109s when you get on their six? I'd say it was fire extinguisher but I didn't think they had one. I was told yesterday that it was a 'graphics bug' - is that right?

Exactly, its about the integrity of the game.

CWMV you strike me as someone who is keen to explore the boundaries but in a fair way. Infortunately not everyone is like that.

The simple fact is that if you leave the door open to responsible modders you leave it open to hackers too. It only takes one idiot hacker to wreck an entire evening for everyone else. Its bad enough with the PrtScrn'ers.

Guys like kwiatek did some excellent work on the IL-2 '46 FMs but they aren't all like that. As for the devs not having time to vet and formally incorporate community work, I would not be expecting them to incorporate additional aircraft, only things like improved FMs for existing aircraft or other issues with objects etc., i.e. things assist in the correction of existing problems and takes some of the load off their shoulders so that we get the benefit more quickly. They certainly aren't going to formally incorporate anything that represents their bread and butter for tomorrow.

Combat Simulators are not like Flight Simulator where it doesn't really matter what kind of UFO you like to build and fly for your pleasure. It's a competitive game. People play on-line to pit their skills and like any other game or sport, it needs a level playing field. If a server wants to offer LooneyUberVille (and I can see that could be fun for experimenters and those not interested in historical environments) then they can turn the verification process off.

Lol.

Did I see someone asking for proof of cheaters to justify activating VAC?

Please!

On that note I bet it's not even been written or added by the Devs yet and until now no one has even mentioned it do don't expect that to jump up the to do list anytime soon..

It is needed and IMO should of been in from day1, it's there for a reason after all.

They wether it's Steam or the Devs need to get this sorted ASAP

Do you have data showing that VAC is not working if it is switched on in server confs.ini?

ATAG team, do you have it on?

Why do you think it is not included in the game yet?

From a while ago (April 2011) but still relevant:

I cant imagine it will ever be implemented, and right now it as to be at the bottom of the list of priorities, I would rather there be 100 cheaters flying in a lobby of 1000 pilots than just one or two in a lobby of 40. The sooner the game gets fixed the more we will find flying on line and hopefully that will eventually breathe back some life into what is currently a dead sim for all but a handful of people.

Yes, we need better numbers but since Dec 29 there have been 1100 different users playing on ATAG #1 with 5200 on-air kills (as good a broad stat as I could think of!) Not too bad in a week.

Hi Jimbob, I never managed to find the fire extinguisher on the Bf109, much less make it work. Since then, I was particularly amused reading the chat red pilots calling blue cheaters because of the white foam fps killer comming out of the B109 and ME110 wings...

I can only assume, it is the radiator water or other kind of fluid leakage (maybe pneumatics for the landing system operation?) which at a certain distance makes this cloud.


Coming back to the real post:
Please gentlemen, let's not make this a "witch hunt"
I do not believe there if evidence available of someone cheating the flight model in order to prove superior in battle.
Possibilities to do so, are available and I am sure people have experimented with it and I have no problem with that.
I am also very careful with things people claim to "have seen with their own eyes" There is a lot of margin for missinterpretation when playing on line and it is part of human nature that "we see what we want to see" and I had the experience: I was called a "cheater" (in a way) because apparently I had found and used online the ME110s autopilot system in order to climb away from a Hurricane. And I dared to write in chat about it.
Fact is that in a ME110 I did climb away from a Hurricane (shock and awe....)
Fact is that I did not use any magic nor cheat nor feature to do it, it was simply a pure case of energy management and aerodynamics.
Fact is that this event became a discussion point (read better: "accussation") in the forums (see quotes at the end of my post).
Luckily, the Hurricane pilot in question intervened and stated the facts and energy situation as it happend from his side and what could have become a very ugly discussion ended there.

What I mean with this example, which I had the privilidge to experience personaly, is that if you are not there inside both planes you can quickly draw the wrong conclusions.

By the way ElAurens, it is not the first time that you make bold statements based on things you have heard from second or third hand:
Last post on that page: http://forum.1cpublishing.eu/showthr...=28174&page=36

Having shared my opinion with you regarding evidence of cheating,
I do believe that it is an excellent idea to implement VAC control now.
Some things are better being implemented pro-actively instead of retro-actively (after the damage was done).

~S~

are you sure? I think the statistic is a little the other way, a handfull consider it dead and are here 'unable to move on from their loss', for the majority it's still twitching so we are waiting for the CPR to take effect.....and yes there is also a small number who just don't believe anything is wrong.

Is there any evidence it is not implemented already? Luthier in the above quote said it had been. He may be mistaken of cause but I am curious of the facts.

If you can enter a server even if you do not have the current patch installed, it is not activated yet ;)

The "White Foam" : can come from any aeroplane on a random basis, its a straight out graphical glitch

For those that haven't seen it here it is on Youtube at 3:09 and a still from the vid:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rMZfV...ayer_embedded#


http://i40.photobucket.com/albums/e2...eissshizer.jpg

In this case a Spitfire after a slow snapshot. However it is not always associated with action it is a random event ... I have witnessed aeroplanes "foaming" as they go into the flare.

I have seen it several times both on Sipts and Hurries, more usual on Hurries though... Well, at least on my system.

Regards.

I'm glad to hear that the white foam is truly a graphics bug rather than gaming. This makes me highly suspicious of the teamspeak chatter about hacking since many are convinced that the white foam is a deliberate cheat (and are wrong).

Bring on VAC, certainly, but in the meantime if I am shot down by another player I will continue to think it is due to my own deficiency and try to improve.

Wellingtons did it at low alt since 1.01.14588 came out in May https://picasaweb.google.com/1002171...ObY0-un64O1rAE

Are you sure? When 2 recent beta patches were tested they were not compatible with previous and next release patches or with each other. In server lobby you could see a warning in red colour "The server uses version ... which is not compatible with your version." It was not possible to join IIRC.

Can anyone join a server with beta patch now? We need a proof to persuade Ilya as he may be not informed correctly by his team as it was a case with coops. I am ready to report the issue at sukhoi.ru if VAC is not working yet indeed.

I couldn't join a server unless the game version was compatible (Beta patch).

I haven't personally witnessed anything to make me think that players are cheating but suprised to read that VAC may not be implemented. I have seen strange behaviour due to lag and in game glitches.

The issue of players triggering Fire extinguishers to kill fps was rumoured in MP chat and TS - this was clearly incorrect!

BS!

Experts FM where based on approximated calculation valid only for a Cessna FM. Stop this argument. We give you credits and spent a lot of time to unveil the farce. I don't want to read this anymore.

Regarding Mods WE DIDN'T PAY FOR A MODDED GAME !! So back it away. Un-modded server hve to prevail. Enough of this !

It's funny how the web internet is a synapses killer. Memory is doomed.

I support VAC ASAP !

Devs hve to keep the initiative on the game evolution and a strong ctrl policy is what give this to them in the benefits of ALL.

If there is any evidence VAC is not working, please report in this thread http://forum.1cpublishing.eu/showthr...615#post377615

I am sorry Ataros, I do not think we can do that, unless you expect us to voluntary enter the server with a moded game, play long enough (if I understood some posts correctly, it is not a split-second ban but, a long term gathering of data) in order to get banned - or not!
Not to mention the outcry in the forums when I will be posting in the chat "Sorry I beat the §$%& out of you but do not worry, I was flying an über Spitfire..."
I already apologise downing people when in SpitIIa, but this! ROFL

Risky business

I think it is much easier for Luthier to confer with STEAM and tell us than vice versa.
Besides, the whole discussion became for me worthless if it is true that somebody has to play for a long time with a moded game in order for STEAM to identify him as a concecutive user and ultimatively ban him.

~S~

Ataros,

I think you should talk to the ATAG guys, they might have some more insight as to whether VAC is on or not.

JD
AKA_MattE

I am not as concerned about VAC as others in this thread. I just provided a link where they can report the issues if they think there are ones.

I asked ATAG guys above if they have VAC on. It looks like they are not concerned with this issue either.

Some interesting reading on VAC http://forums.steampowered.com/forum....php?t=2284833
And in general http://forums.steampowered.com/forum...splay.php?f=35

Also forum users advise to buy new cheats and send them to Steam support/admins to have their signatures included in VAC.

Thus I think it works like this:
1) Steam collects data on modified dlls from servers and user reports.
2) These modifications are sorted to cheats / not cheats based on some criteria, algorithms and user statistics.
3) Cheat sigs are included into VAC.

Thus we have to report cheats to have their sigs included faster. I am sure game tracks contain enough data to tell the devs if aircrafts within 20 km radius from the player use modified FMs. Post them in a separate thread and file a request to devs in that thread http://forum.1cpublishing.eu/showthr...615#post377615 if you are concerned with this issue.
The devs probably will never see this thread we are writing in now.

Maybe it should be posted here by somebody if it hasn't been asked yet:
http://forum.1cpublishing.eu/showthread.php?t=28341

Do you mean it's an only passive system ?!!!

OMG in what a dire situation we are !!

I would not make this conclusion but I am not an expert. Read Steam forum if you are interested. As far as i understand it actively collects information from VAC-enabled servers. This is how it works with all Steam games making most of players happy. Of cause some players would consider situation to be "dire" but this always happens.

Punkbuster which kicks instantly makes more trouble to honest players who can not join servers because of it. Huge number of complains can be found on BF3 forums for instance. Some unlucky players can not join servers for months since release.

Thus we are in a much better situation.

ps. What I also understood from Steam forum, a 1-7 days delay in banning is present to prevent hackers who can break some accounts trying different cheats one by one to find out which cheats can be caught and which can not. This prevents them from reverse-engineering the VAC system.

+1000

Thanks Ataros, by now I know a lot more about VAC than previously.

~S~

Thx Ataros for the reply.

I understand that they hve also to deal with their commercial image. Hundreds of gamer blocked is what they want not.