Fresh stuff from sukhoi.ru (Discussion)
 

I just had a google translated read of BlackSix thread in sukhoi.ru. The guy is working hard at communication, no breaking news but a listening ear and about a 100 of "I take note". He confirmed that the MG 3d modelers are full steam on the "battle for Moskov" expansion, so no hope for new flyable BoB planes, such as Wellington or Beaufighter, the latter being not ruled out completely though. They have opened a sort of rolling bug report, but without feedback from the devs because they have not enough time. Podvoxx was nice as it was him who asked BS to pop in the yellow forum to inform us, which he did. all in all BS is a nice guy.
Despite feeling quite disappointed, I can understand the logics behind this choice: avoid language issues and need to get info on the battle for Moskov, plus the fact that the main market for this expansion will surely be Russia.

Cheers,
Insuber

Thanks Insuber!

Kudos Insuber,

There shouldn't be a barrier between sukhoi and this forum, hopefully the incident the other day was just a one off.

A little disspointed on no new flyables, hopefully modders can slip them in.

Interesting about the expansion.. hopefully clod will be shipshape by then!

Thanks Insuber! Was there any news of a timescale for the expansion though? I wonder if it'll be next year, or if it's still a way off yet, as it could certainly kick some life into the series with new planes to get more players interested

Thanks for the report!

No additional news, in fact the new game has not been yet announced officially.

I'm willing to pay for modders to slip in .. if allowed?

.

Well they need to get this one finished before people will have faith to purchase any more,once bitten twice shy.
If they can't get it right on a small theatre of ops such as BoB how on earth are they going to cope with something many times larger.

the poor guys are changing the flat tire while the car is running, simple.

For English language speakers it's a little unfortunate that their new Community Liaison's name shortens down to BS. :P

I wouldn't worry too much if no new BoB planes will be built by Ilya's team. According to the old pre-release updates Il-2 is supposed to be pretty open to 3rd party modeling of planes, vehicles, maps, etc. They just haven't released the SDK and other tools because they're still working on fixing the code for the game.

PS- The guys working on BoM are mostly 3D graphics artists and not programmers, so no resources are being diverted from CoD at the moment. We'll get our Wellingtons someday from a 3rd part developer.

Guys the BoB is nearly done on the graphics part. They can afford to switch part of their team on a new project.

My own guess is that the coders and FM guys will hve a wild ride until the 1st january. Let's hve an humble tough for them :cool:

EDIT : Luno13 beat me on the line ;)

You have to be quite optimistic to say this...this may be true for the planes, but the map has to be completed/revamped to even remotely resemble to something OK!

I understand that 1C may not have the resources to do it, as I think that even staging the work/rework over time (ie coast line and airfields, then harbors, then large towns, then smaller towns then railways, and i just consider the french side here) there is at least one year of work for a small but dedicated team.
This would depend on 1C agreement, and also on some core software improvements, like the ability to create woods as full objects (not a gathering of trees), to have 3D rivers, to be able to modify textures at least locally (airfields, railways)...

I believe much of these improvements are in the tubes, if not already existing, they are just not activated yet. There is also a distinct possibility that the next episode(s) will bring its(their) own set(s) of improvements which will be then be retrofittable to BoB.

Discussion with the Dev Team about this subject is difficult now because they are otherwise busy, but I have good hopes the time for a more relaxed stance will come, and then we will be able to set plans in motion.

JV

PS I wonder if there would be an interest in providing the community with photos of the different approaches to the various BoB airfields...from the air...the real airfields, as they stand now (=not terribly changed since 1940)...(french side only, sorry)?

This. My thoughts exactly. I for one am soooooo glad they are moving ahead with the expansion. Would be awesome if BlackSix could give us some "friday development updates" on it in the near future. Can't wait to go to the eastern front :)

LMAO when I first read it cause something seemed off on the post that mentioned BS and now you put it into perspective.......

Remember that 3D modellers build 3D things.. once they are done they don't just sit there..they are getting paid. So they build future things..some will never get in the game, but they build it so when the time comes that work has already been done..

We will eventually have plenty of planes for the BOB theater. All planes build for other theaters will be usable in the BOB theater. Any planes built for let say the North African campaign that are applicable to BOB can be used, even if they are not applicable. Also third parties aircraft will also be available at some point.

Originally the Battle for Moscow was going to be a third party addon. This may have changed, but I doubt very much they will be applying to many resources to the Battle for Moscow. That said much of the work being done will apply to both theaters so I wouldn't worry to much that this will any way delay the full completion of BOB.

it's an extension of the same project

I totally agree...
Not that I regret that they focus on Eastern front, Battle of Britain has always been in my "Not interested in- sphere"... But they should really focus on getting the platform in order: sound, gfx..you name it.. AND introduce these changes on the existing product before release of this second title. If this title continue to be broken, there is no chance mpst of us will buy another title.
Amongst our squadmembers, maybe 15 bought Clod when it was released, and maybe 3 fly it occasionally... the rest can't or won't play it as it is now.

sure, but they can't "wait" to fix Clod. It must be in order before the release of this ..."extension" ...

Will the proposed expansion be similar to IL1946 where any new theatres form part of the CloD engine or is it likely to be a separate title that is independent of CloD?

Would be a huge disappointment if they cannot be merged. The Success of Il2 1946 is connected directly with its bonding with the previous addons / stand alones

I imagine the expansions will be like IL2... then Forgotten Battles.... EAP.... followed by Pacific Fighters.... and after thatPE2.... and Sturmoviks Over Manchuria... which finally culminated into 1946.

Each of those were paid add ons from different theatres. Between most of those we had various patches providing tweaks, improvements and features. some planes were released in patches too.

Hopefully we can skip pacific fighters this time Lol!

If they are smart they will follow this tried and true formula from IL2. The Moscow expansion should be a merged install with CLOD.

can not wait for it

It seems pretty obvious that it uses the same engine. That means that any improvements to the code will apply to both projects.

Like they were smart when they kept the tried and true quick mission builder setup?
man, hope they fix that!:-P

Nooo! Pacific fighters was one of my favourites, with the updated graphics engine with 3D, wow!

Landing on the deck of an aircraft carrier rendered in 3D could just tempt me to try it!

Surley to keep up with the current trend of calling your game a ridiculous name i.e 'IL2 Sturmovik Cliffs Of Dover' they should call it 'IL2 Sturmovk - IL2 Sturmovik' or maybe 'SPITFIRE Battle of Moscow'!

I'm in BOB mode .. please don't screw me up by changing theatres and then back again! .. my wallet won't like it! :(

.

S!

Fix the damn GFX engine, FM/DM and sounds + other things. Then add more stuff when you have a solid platform to work with. But again in Russia the BoM expansion will sell like heck so propably we will SOME day have a product that will satisfy our needs for years to come.

It has been stated by the developers in the past, the new series will be modelled in the same manor as the old IL-2 series, with each theater addition being both stand alone, and/or merged.

You will pay for new theater addons, but any graphic updates, aircraft, objects etc will be applied to COD if you merge the theaters, just as it was done in the first IL-2 series.

I agree that choice of names could have been better, but IL2 Sturmovik, is immediately recognized name in combat flight sim community, and the Cliffs of Dover is immediately associated with the Battle of Britain. Especially with the Hurricane, and 109 on the box cover.

Not sure why they didn't use Battle of Britain on the cover in Western release unless there was copyright or confusion issues with other products.

So they will abandon CLOD which isnt (still) optimized at all just to deliver a product for russian market...great....I gave them 50 bucks....NO MORE from me....

IL2 SturmovikII

The last 10% are always the most difficult to be done. Most products never get over the 90% stage. And you will agree that 90% of CloD already have been done, won't you?

Ah, of course, I hadn't realised that it hadn't been announced! Thanks for the reply anyway

No. The addon is 99% constituted by maps and 3D objects, done by 3D modelers. The game engine is common, so the GFX, DM, FM teams will continue to work on the bugs and improvements or the Il2: Cliffs of Dover series. Not so difficult to understand.

If its to be merged then that's great...

All il2 games in the past have merged, I do not see them changing this. I do see them selling it firstly as a stand alone game with the ability to merge both and then as with all il2 incarnations, a gold pack with an udated merge patch forcing players to buy both at a later stage normally six months after release :rolleyes:
One hopes the SDK is released soon and modders can get active fixing (maybe fixing is too harsh a work, lets say creating )what needs to be fixed. It is just sad to think that I still fly il2-1946 with it's mods more than I fly it's replacement.

It may be 90% done (that would depend on what you are basing that percentage on: lines of code? man hours? final in-game content?), but there is some important stuff left to fix. The devs are still hard at work on CloD. :)

from: http://forum.1cpublishing.eu/showthr...181#post350181

I've got my money's worth out of it so far. Luckly I haven't had the stability issues some people have been having!

I definately will be buying the next upgrade or expansion pack that the developers release.

Cheers!

It's tough waiting for the AI and comms fixes, but I agree 100%. ;)

Don't forget a few bonus planes!

No Foobar i dont, FM, DM, clouds, dynamic weather, any weather!, sound,radio coms, memory leaks, Exe crashes, Track record feature, ground handling, map features, FSAA, Full screen, FMB docs, QMB, AI, single player campaign all need quite a bit of work.

Its about 60% done to me so far.

I have to agree, best way to gauge it is take someone not interested in this niche and ask them to gauge the game itself as a game. You wont get a good response. I feel just like as for my own self, its aviation bias that makes me still try to play it.
Yes there are features that impress, to a aviation enthusiast, but it fails in so many regular standard ways that its still no where near a level that i believe should be on sale, not having an effective fullscreen is just terrible standards.

I reckon all of this wouldn't be happening if someone had the decency of using his English language skills and post the road map (which apparently is there and well clear too) on the future of this sim :rolleyes:

My reading of the situation is that if they brought out a sequel now is that it would have all the underlying issues that presently exist. They are working on these issues and plan to have them sorted before the next release. In the meantime they are working on the maps and models so they are ready for the fully sorted engine. So no, I don't think they have any intention of just abandoning CloD as the code will be optimized first and then used for the Russian theatre. And no, I have no problem with spending what is a pitance on something that is being improved and developed and will give me years of real pleasure.

With these news and what we've experienced since 31 of March it is pretty clear that CloD was more of a beta, testing the engine on some happy campers in the west, prior to the russian release of Battle of Moscow.
"Hey, lets start with a beta and call it something brittish so we get a hole community to test it for us"

Even though we in the west thought the IL-2 was groundbreaking and a big hit that everyone into cfs was playing, the number of sold copies was nothing compared to the russian market. So no surprise they focus on that market for the sequel.

They're not fixing the game for us. They're trimming the engine for the BoM release. We didn't make Oleg a billionair, the russian players did.

Look into a mirror and say hello to a beta tester for a russian company.

We've been marginalized...and it hurts. :(

neither do I...
 

Maybe I was expecting too much but...
Do we really think that CloD, in terms of project goals, has achieved 90% of the target?
Does anybody believe that a product about 10% better than CloD has any chance to survive in the actual market?
Still, Is 90% good enough? I might… it depends whether the other 10% is above o below the “surviving margin”.

Salutes

Conspiracy theories again, eh?

Is there any word of when BoM will be released in north america/europe?

sure , im not able to read russian.
but IIRC the tone in the sukhoi froum was/is also not awlays friendly about the CoD status. imagine if 'their' great patriatic war will be released in such a status. this bananaforum will be a plac of holiday compared to the sukhoi one :D

Tree, i can't believe that you really believe what you are posting here.

I think there are two Tree's, one is flying online and having fun and the other one needs to feel slighted and mistreated by Maddox Games.

First ..please- get everything to work with what we've got & get performance working for those of us with Pcs a year old?"Up with FPS!"

as long BoB and BoM scenarios will be mergeable, its not important "fix it first" actually.
the "fixes" ( at least of 3D enigine and GUI) will be downwards compatible.

as all improvements since 2001 were in IL2

FM and CEM things are another question...as long the planes are not needed for the BoM. We will see!

to be honest, i beliv ethe most costumers are not interested in our forum talk.........
they are interested in official working output of the development team - read "STEAM patches"

Sure , its far beyond my understanding how someone can use this game with fun without getting help from the forums because of the totaly inadequate documantation/manual

Last new of BlackSix is they have stumbled on a very unexpected difficulty with the last patch so do not expect news before one or two weeks more, hoping it will be faster than that.

See http://www.sukhoi.ru/forum/showthrea...=1#post1742364

"So, consider it a mini-news updates: we have absolutely unexpected complexity and duration of occurrence of all the promised information pushed at least 1.5-2 weeks. I'll be very happy if mistaken in a big way. Details can not disclose. We will try as soon as possible to reduce the backlog of plans"

Patience guys. And turn "Troll ignore" on.

Thanks JVM, hopefully they can sort it out a bit sooner.

One week more, two weeks more ... but with reference to WHAT? The discussion on dates is becoming esoteric at least ... announcing a delay on undisclosed dates is quite bizarre ... or did I loose a piece of information?

The sooner people realize how fluid the situation is regarding developing and testing a product like this the less they will be fixated on fixed dates. The developers are not only trying to fix existing features, but adding features that can throw a grenade into whats already developed. You fix one thing and break something else...this requires alot of patience.

Quote:
Originally Posted by JVM View Post
Last new of BlackSix is they have stumbled on a very unexpected difficulty with the last patch so do not expect news before one or two weeks more, hoping it will be faster than that.

See http://www.sukhoi.ru/forum/showthrea...=1#post1742364

Why am i not in the least surprised.

Chivas, I fully agree, I was just wondering why BS speaks of delay when he never promised any date whatsoever. anyway the game industry is basically a prototype business, each game is a unique piece. Schedules and budgets go astray more than in other businesses. But communication can still be kept on different subjects, without harming the confidence, stimulating interest and keeping the kids awaken.

That's why in my humble opinion they should have started right back at square one and fixed fullscreen as a first priority rather than introduce changes to visual graphics in case those changes cannot be implemented or implemented with great difficulty after fullscreen is fixed.

They had an internal date for releasing the update. This problem caused a delay from that date.

The 1 or 2 weeks will become three (developers are a galaxy of optimists), then Christmas and the New Year, the Epiphany ... expect nothing until after Easter .. :D :D :D

OK David, thx for the explanation. We are in the world of relativity here :D

Hahaha OK time to uninstall again fellas

FIXED... no need to thank me.

I wasn't speculating. I do this for a living. That's how it works.

Agreed 100%

Where alot forum members are lacking the bold portions

Makes sense to me.

I have patience, but I understand people who waited 8 months and don't have a working game yet. I know personally some of them.

pick me! pick me ! ;)

as it stnads, ill buy a new pc for crishtams if COD getds a good update till then. Else i will post pone it to october,

Have there been any new pix over at the sukoi forum?

Ok lets take a closer look..

We know for a FACT that some people have a 'working game'

And your saying you know some people who don't have a 'working game'

The FACT that some do and some don't tells 'us' that it is not an issue with the game as much as it is an 'issue' with the people you know

What the 'issue' is depends on which 'people' you talk to

On the 'reasonable' end of the scale said 'people' would define a NON WORKING GAME as one that will not start when started, thus they are unable to fly at all

On the un-reasonable' end of the scale said 'people' would define a NON WORKING GAME as one where the shade of green on the trees is not correct ITHO

Long story short the definiton of 'working game' means different things to differnt people

And with that said, I care not for those people at or near the un-reasonable end of the scale

That's how I read it too.

You are riding a dead horse here, my friend. The "people" I'm speaking about are long date CF simmers; one is a programmer and one of the BEST Il2 pilots I know. Three of them are Il2 instructors. The issue is simple and everyone here knows it: H/W or S/W incompatibilities make the game not running or running with serious issues/low quality, while all the other games and recent simulations, from RoF to ARMA, are running big time + top quality.

Cheers!

I found a good explanation for the preference of our preferred devs for the sukhoi forum: censorship. I just tried to post, but every single post is checked and moderated before publishing. Insults and whining are very rare there ... we have our explanation, I guess.

They prefer to post where they're not being called liars? That is crazy.

That seems to be true but if i look at those chaps who have a "working game" they mostly seem to have high end rigs to say the least ( SLI (working or not working)with cards with 3 GB DDR5, 12 to 16 Gig RAM at 1600 Mhz,240 Gig SSD etc...)
I have 6 GB RAM 1333 Mhz,Nvidia GFX 295 2.6 Gig DDR3,Intell i7-965 extreme quadcore 3.2 Ghz X 58 chipset etc. I should have been told before that with my rig, i would not be able to fly over London ,on full settings,with only 3 fps avarage,as i have. sorry

sukhoi, rather.

I know.. but my hope is if I keep pointing out the fact that the game works fine for some people and not others that some of the people who are on the fence about CoD will say to themself

"Well, CoD is not the only game on the market that does not work on every PC out there"

Which says more about 'those' PC than CoD.. At which point they will feel more comfortable buying CoD knowing that the game runs fine for more people than not

And there are CF simmers, programers, etc out there whos PCs run CoD just fine!

Just to be clear, I am not saying CoD will run fine on any PC out there! What I am saying there are PCs out there that CoD runs fine on. Since CoD runs fine on some and not others points the finger at the PC more than it does CoD

Which is true of many games.. I know people who I play ARMA with who have to turn down the graphics setings to obtain decent FPS.. I also know guys who fly RoF who have to do the same. I also know guys in both camps that 'found something' after much tweaking of there PC that made the 'game' run better. Which brings us back to spaure one..

That being IMHO most of the issues people are having with CoD has more to do with thier PC than CoD. Only comming here you get a FILTERED impression that it is more bad than good.

Why?

Becuse most people for whom CoD runs fine on their PC are off playing CoD and not bothering with this forum. Where as people with problems come here looking for soultuions, some find them and move on, some dont. Its that simple

First.. There is an options menu where you can turn down the details to improve the FPS

Second.. As I noted, I know guys with simular rigs that say it is running fine for them.. So, this again points a finger at the PC more than it does CoD

Issues with CoD performance can be discussed in the relevant sub forum here:
http://forum.1cpublishing.eu/forumdisplay.php?f=195

As it appears we are not going to hear much from Sukhoi.ru for a while now due to the new problems being found with the patch, and as it appears this thread is veering off topic again, its locked. I'm sure if there is any news someone will post it.

Sukhoi News?
 

Anyone found any news at the sukhoi forum ?

Most recent news was the news that the new graphics engine had some newly discovered bugs, so no further news would be forthcoming for some time. Sorry about the bad news. :wink:

http://www.microsofttranslator.com/b...%23post1742364

"at least 1.5 to 2 weeks" but I'd guess more like 4-6.

Word of mouth news
 

I've heard claims originating from Beta testers that the new graphics is both faster and better-looking.

56RAF_phoenix

Thats great news if thats the case! :)

Excellent!

read through some of it . . .



Google translation is strange, maybe native Russian speakers can get the translation correct.

but this is what I understood . . .



some highlights:



SE topic

b6-> Hello Mazex
The "Battle for Moscow" has not yet been announced. I'm sorry, but we can not disclose the details and tell you about installation options.


------


*patch


b6-> Given the difficulties we have encountered no exact dates now indicate. Naturally, we will try to release a patch as quickly as possible.


------

*41-42 new planes ->



The question to read-whether to expect the BzB (patches) increase in the fleet, namely Bf-109F, Fw-190 early models, the Spitfire V and others. If you expect, what time? Isn't the next addon, namely patches to BzB.


b6 -> Expansion of the fleet of 1941-42. release will need to create a new terrestrial technology ships, expansion cards, etc small blood is not a cost. To this add-on BzB, as far as I know, is not planned. Modellery already switched to a new project.


-------

* I demand immediate Soviet aircraft .

B6-> All, now I'm calm)



---


* PS excuse about speed such that cannot be seen simply does not look DCS KA50 there too the blades
3-dimensional and pitch adjustable and all perfectly visible.

B6 -> this spoils the picture, the modern game is inconceivable without anti-aliasing and the problem should be solved in the future.




----


* BlackSix message from
I was surprised that at Russian Forum asked about the Western front, and do not require immediate Soviet aircraft

-> B6 -> Yes, it was planned that will evolve also. BzB But all the details will only appear after the announcement the next project.





-----



Hi! You can create a special topic in the English language http://www.sukhoi.ru/forum/forumdisplay.php?f=233 .in section and continuously update its. Developers will watch it.




------

* on potential theaters ->

b6-> Changes in technology are still there, despite the fact that Britain slala almost all novelties in Africa and Germany to the East. The new destroyers, hunters, subs (no ŝas). All this further complicates the potential problem of development at 41-42 BZB. Think about the unavoidable in this case, requests to Dieppe and breakthrough of German battleships across the English channel. But first it is important to the Publisher-make this add-on or not.

Good news! Source? Sukhoi?

BzB = BoB

B6 explains why F4 or 190 will not be included(most likely) into BoB but will appear in new theatres only.

The F4 and 190 will appear in new theaters, but there is nothing to stop people from making missions with the F4's and 190's on the BOB map when you've done a merged install. The plan for all new theaters will be merged or standalone installs.