Is the comunity manager coming in ?
 

I found this in Sukhoy forum:
http://www.sukhoi.ru/forum/showthread.php?t=73239

if this is not a bad joke, then it indeed looks like this is the case....at least what i can read through google translation

This is great news. Looks genuine to me.

no mention if he comes here too though, so maybe we might have a different rep here.

It's seens that sukhoi.ru is the place to go .. more news more updates etc.. 1C what is it for?

:)

He introduces himself on a "foreign" forum?
That makes perfectly sense.
I'm confused.

:confused:

We're the foreign forum to Blacksix.

1C and MG is Russian, we're the foreigners. Makes sense to begin the build up to the Russian Add on now. Russia's wars and battles are big business to Russians and a strong selling point so I'm willing to believe this Add on will be of a nice size.

Like it :) Especially about these forums being more-or-less officially recognised as 'oblivion' :D

snap lol

Can anyone fill us in on what it says, my Russian reading comprehension skills are lacking.

page 1

Have they forsaken us?

Guys, I apologize, but I will work only with Russian forums. I can read, but I do not write in English.
I will ask Ilya Shevchenko to explain you this situation in more details.

Now I write it through a translator. I think that result not the best.

blacksix, your autotranslated english is perfect. Keep on, we need it!

Ilya will kill me for it :shock:
Please, wait his comments on a situation)

Wait a sec - blacksix you're a dev iirc.
Got an additional task assigned? ;)

It should be all right if some very kind Russian speaking person, who also speaks and writes English, would continue to translate it for us. Which is in any case better then Google Translate.

I think that will be greatly appreciated by everyone.

yeah.. but this will lack the comunication part of the PR. i doubt yo will find a translator to tell evrerithing we wont to the russian foruns... .to be fair this is a huge fail and a bit of a disapointment. Assign a PR who doenst speak english in the 21st century?

Well yes I can agree with that, a PR should at least speak English when addressing a world wide fanbase. I don't mean any offence to BlackSix of course.

But I fear that we'll just have to deal with it. It's Better to make the best out of it. And he seems to have a lot of knowledge in the IL2 series which will certainly help making those FAQ's and manuals.

I'm sure we will get them in English in one way or the other, it just won't be the same second he speaks to the community.

Ilya rarely communicates with us, sadly.

BlackSix sounds like a good honest guy.

What astounds me? The "non-1C" forums get a "community manager" and the "1C" forums get ? "Nothing"..... wtf?

Once again.....No reply is the remedy.

Not surprised...Not upset...adjusting interest level, downwards....again.

I'm not surprised !!!!

It makes sense for them to communicate with native speaking CoD users that are objective and helpful and can pass information around without any misunderstanding due to any language differences.


Perhaps there's some respect and trust for the devs there that's rarely seen here.




.

you sell a global product, you communicate in a global way ! how can you have it any otherway. you show a serious lack of respect here, the developers show a serious lack of respect too. not us. dont blame us, 1c sold a lemon ,a bad product.

and alpha you in practically a few words explain why were so upset here. yet throw it right back at us with blame. meanwhile suggesting it could have been another way. To the best of my understanding this forum exists as a mere formality to the publisher 1C. The fact that the very developers are in capable of doing anything here for this fan base is absolutely atrocious no matter what spin you put on us, yourselves as moderators, developers, mere passers by. Or any of the 1001 stupid arguments, slagging matches, general debating. Atrocious is the only word behind the result of anything thats been said done or intended on behalf of the game, Its `IP`, the fanbase or the franchise.

Were long past this get over it, this is their forum not a place for you you insult and attack people.

You will read what you want from anything and twist it to suit your whine.

Another rant, the fact you are taking it so personally perhaps tells you something.

are you sure? I don't think so... what respect we didn't give to the devs? are they respecting us? no... so? more pissing on us... great

Are you serious ??

They have been called everything from thieves and liars to personal insults and being ridiculed at this forum.

You wonder why they stick to a native language forum for communication , its a no brainer for me !!

Anyway they seem to be getting on great at the other forum with its members giving good support and development feedback, why you think this is a bad thing I have no idea, they are getting the help they need there.





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because the game i bought is from 1C and not from sukhoi.ru, I expected more support on this forum and I don't want use google translator to read it, because it translate like sht.

You do get support at this forum when Luthier posts development updates and new patch info, what more can be done, the sukhoi forum users provide direct feedback and development help in their native language, as the dev's dont all speak English it makes sense for them to be doing this, and developing a relationship via the new forum position with BlackSix.






.

Alpha - First of all, thank you for your free moderators work. Then, let me say that the best way to improve a troubled relationship is to open more the communication, increase transparency, set a standard of values, behavior and development and keep to it. I've never seen any improvement by merely cutting the dialogue, especially with your faithful customers.

Also, this forum has been always helpful and constructive when asked so by the devs, with info, data, documents, feedbacks and lists of bugs, not to mention the great how-tos done by simple users. On the other side of the fence, we have read many vain promises by the devs, such as a community manager, or test data of the gfx engine, and what is worse is that these unfulfilled promises were often spontaneous and unsolicited.

As a last comment, I'm aware that a widespread marketing theory blames the customers for a defective product, but its adepts normally last very little on the market.

cheers.

So you're basically saying, in Russian, those insults sound more polite? :-P

Frankly, this is the attitude that keeps me from posting here anymore. They wouldn't get such a negative reaction on this forum if they took the time to interact properly, as they do on sukhoi.ru.

Language has nothing to do with it - if you sell a product internationally, you are expected to provide support internationally. Restricting your updates to a Russian forum upsets the international community using this forum, many of whom do not use English as their first language either. If they actually interacted properly here (as Luthier has shown he is capable of doing) and did it regularly, not just when they feel like it, they would generate far more good will and would get just as much 'help' as they are getting on the russian forum.

Silence breeds the assumption of contempt; this is where the insults start. Ali makes a valid point: they sold a game in a very poor state, as we all know, and have since been very sparing with the information they provide. We do trust that work is being done, and we see it in the patches, but it's the month or more of silence in between that gets people's backs up.

Communication is important. 4x devs Kerberos just released a game in as bad a state as CloD was at release, but they have communicated constantly on their forums, apologised, offered various DLC incentives alongside a full and open refund system and even given a free copy of their previous game to buyers willing to wait for the new product to be fixed. As a result, they have retained a lot more goodwill (and sales, for that matter).

Would it really be so difficult for the Russian community manager to post to two websites instead of one? The fact that people are clamouring for even a google-translated version (and scouring sukhoi.ru themselves) should tell you something: they don't care if it's poor translated Engrish, they just want to know what's going on.

You can bluster all you like, but it doesn't change the fact that this is a poor way to conduct business, and as long as they continue in this fashion they will generate insults and invective. A little talk goes a long way sometimes, and Luthier's updates are a great start - but I'd wager the reason the fellows at Sukhoi.ru are so helpful is that they actually feel involved, while over here we just wait to be thrown a bone.

The bare minimum isn't enough anymore, and by acting like this, they ignore and isolate over half their (incredibly dedicated) fanbase, when that fanbase could be helping them instead. What a waste, all for the want of a weekly update and some community involvement.

Sorry Swiss, editing and posting at the same time!

I think you are right, the insults are probably jumped on and moderated quickly. Seems to work though doesn't it...

Man, dont delete your posts. :grin:


original was:

Anyway, If you call that zensorship working, well then, so was the udssr. :rolleyes:

Well said mate!

This shows you have not read or understood anything I posted.

We know the state of the game in the beginning ....... that's history but as things move forwards people like to still go back and use this old whine.

The Russian community manager has already explained why he wont be posting here.

Oleg gave up posting updates ............ in this words,

"dammed if I do and dammed if I don't"

In the end he didn't.

The constant bashing does have an affect, if they get a better response elsewhere and can use that to move forwards then where's the problem.

I really don't see the fuss being made here its just a Community manager being used to communicate in Russian on a Russian forum,
you are not loosing out on anything thing here nothings being taken away.
.

+1 . You speak the truth, pal.

You must be the only one then. It is easy to understand, THESE are 1C company forums, not Su.ru as far as I know, and here is where customers expect feedback from the company which is actually selling the product they bought, full stop.

It is not as difficult to understand that Microsoft corporate communications to their customers are made on Microsoft's forums or portals not on Apple's, is it?. (or at least there is where Microsoft customers go when looking for Microsoft's products related info, they must have an important reason to do so I guess).

Maybe they know more than us... maybe Ilya told them at the release time that the game was really incomplete and an Alpha version. Maybe they bought it as an investment.

Instead here "somebody" kept saying that the game was great, that in a pair of month were would be thousand player online. Of course many of us could not really trust him. It was fair to think about receiving a Beta version, no problem here for most of us fanboys... BUT not a game of which its main cores are still under full development (are graphic engine and sound engine main cores in a sim? they are not being fixed, they are under development!).

Look, I don't blame Luthier. IMO he's a victim since he's developing this sim because he's an fanboy too. I'm sure the state of thing was tragic when he took the lead on the studio. I totally blame the former project manager of CloD.

I only can blame him about not telling us the real state of the game before the release. I would have helped him gladly.

Look at RoF: they have finantial issues, asked for an help and people are buying planes even if they don't fly with their simulator (Insuber is one of this).

Alpha, when you blame us for "insulting" the devs, who in retaliation are not willing to communicate with us, while the Russian users are so polite and gentle and helpful to deserve a community manager, are you speaking on the basis of solid info or you are just reading this interesting story into your personal crystal ball ?

Hang on mate - you can't just say the state of the game ot release "is history". we're still dealing with that botched release and the mistruths told in the lead up to its release.

Customers were and remain justifiably angry about how the release was handled.

But amazingly - and despite being dudded - they remain loyal to this product. Yet every time they seek more information or help the simply have salt rubbed in their wounds with situations like this.

1c needs to start communicating properly in this - the official forum. Re-gaining respect is a long road back.

I agree but were a long way down the line from the release version, and still its used to complain about the current a state of the game.

Where did I blame any one for anything ?

???

Please answer, mate, answering with another question is not polite. Are you speculating, or you have been told by the devs that they are reluctant to communicate here for the reasons that you described?

'This shows you have not read or understood anything I posted' is ironic, because I had the same reaction to your reply. There are far fewer trolls here now than there were at release, anyone spending any time here can see that, and to tar the entire non-russian community with that brush is pointless and wasteful. You know as well as I do that dev posts here are met with more praise than anger nowadays, so the 'damned if I do, damned if I don't' line doesn't hold water, not least because it was Oleg that said that, and Oleg is no longer here.

I don't believe for a second that there are somehow fewer trolls in Russia, or that sukhoi.ru is a haven of peaceful co-operation. There, as here, moderating the outright insults and moving the worthy arguments is the job of forum moderators like yourself - if that's not happening and the devs (who should have thicker skins) are getting upset, then you're not shielding them from the worst of it, and you need more moderators, or just better ones.

And as the 'bashing' (which, let's be honest, is not actually constant; you're over-dramatising, as most of the posts here seem to be fairly sensible) has an effect, so do the long periods of silence have an effect. The longer the silence, the more effort it takes to regain the trust of the people you have ignored - so yes, it will take some effort to regain that trust. But the alternative is a split community, which is never good for a game - and more bashing. And so the cycle continues, until someone is brave enough to break it.

And no, you're right, we've not 'lost' anything. But the reaction to this, and the constant and ongoing calls for communication and involvement continue, should tell you that the great majority of people here want to be positive, want to help, and to be involved. They care about this game just as much as the Russians do, and they're shut out because a few trolls scared the devs, who, to be quite honest, must have known they were going to get some flak when they released the game in that state.

Retreating to 'their side of the border' is just plain hiding - it's always been hiding, and it always will be. In the end they just damage themselves by isolating and ignoring their customers, wasting an enormous community resource and leave it to people like you to tell us that the only people worthy of involvement are Russians (because they live in a world magically free of trolls).

So no, you really didn't read (or at least, understand) a word I said in the last post. I doubt you'll fare any better this time either, but I live in hope. This community has some really decent people who don't deserve to be tarred by the actions of others, and drinking the kool-aid in this way, frankly, does them a disservice.

KG26_Alpha. Can I ask whether as moderator you have any direct line of communication with the developers?

You got it wrong I guess.
From a community manager, the community expects interactions, or a least actions in the sense of posting news, progress etc.
Now, if they refuse to communicate with this part here, we're obviously not part of the community - right?
They reject us, most here feel like customers though. Not sooo cool.

I have not blamed anyone for insulting the devs simply my observations of the past behaviour on this forum, and the complaints as a moderator I have had to deal with towards them.

I didn't say they are reluctant to communicate here, I simply pointed out that it makes sense for a Russian speaking development team communicate in Russian with Russian speaking forum users via a Russian speaking forum manager.

Me personally no.

I did read all your post but its the usual rant again seen many times at these forums just in a different format.

I refer you to the earlier post I made regarding the new community manager not posting at these forums.





.

Have fun all I'm off for some flying.

:)

fyp. ;)

no Alpha, you didn't say only that. You said that developers are not communicating here because we are bashing and insulting, and they prefer to communicate in the sukhoi forum because they are helpful and supportive. Iwill try again: are you just making hypotheses, or you've been told so by Luthier?

Give me a break. Luthier is an American.

What are you talking about now ?

Please read this thread from the beginning.

Ok Where did I say these things or you just putting words where they don't belong ?

Seriously fellas you need to read properly what's being said and stop making assumptions.

Buddy. As moderator you need to remember you are representing 1c and probably need to stop arguing with paying customers.

Perhaps as moderator you need to be crafting a polite email to 1C recommending they do more to interact with this - their official - website.

Now they have a community manager on another forum? That's pretty funny. It's pretty obvious what the devs think of this place, and I don't blame them.

I don't think it was a rant at any point, I actually thought I was excessively civil. And yes, it is still (in part) the same argument, but that argument is still valid. Refusing to engage with it doesn't make it any less relevant and merely causes further damage. I'm sorry you are unable to see that, as I did try very hard to lay it out in an easy to read and rational manner.

Enjoy your flight.

I think everyone is reading too much into this. There was probably an opportunity to use BlackSix in the CoD team and his skills qualified him for community manager. Perfect? No, because he doesn't write in English but better than nothing.

Given a choice, no development manager would deliberately hire a manager that doesn't speak both key languages. Either luthier is really daft and spiteful (which I doubt) or circumstances aligned in such a way that he could either have a Russian-only community manager or nothing at all, at least for the time being.

Given a choice, I prefer communication instead of speculation. But choice is not given.

LoL

I think that this thread is a perfect example of why the developers don't post at this forum!


See ya on the flip side!

The role "officialy" starts on 1 Dec 2011, and BlackSix will be using the Sukhoi forums. I'll just monitor that forum more closely.

Feel free to explain how asking politely for better communication and more community involvement (as paralleled on the Russian forum) is contributing to the 'bashing' problem?

Wow. Just...wow.

I don't mean to be overly negative, but you read a post that in essence had two points, 1) "We are no more negative than any other of the communities about the state of the game and therefore are just as deserving of some regular communication about the state of development" and 2) "Regardless of negativity there is an obligation for customers to be informed about the steps that are being taken to improve the game" and thought "the usual rant"? It's a good job you aren't the community manager, to be honest.

I'd say that's a good deal closer to "the opinion of 99.7% of the community" than "the usual rant", which I thought looked more like: "OMG THIS GAME DOn'T WORK ON MAX SETTING ON MY 3DFX VOODOO 2! WHY?!"

It's not an extremely onerous request, Alpha, that's why it causes so much consternation. I'm not one of those people who spends hours on this forum whining but when there a complete breakdown of communication between customers and the developer like there has been here, I can understand why people are upset. Personally I've just moved on to trying out other sims until this game is worth playing.

Ridiculous.

really, tragic comedy is continuing....

Hahaha. Thisis sig material.

Last I heard was that Oleg stopped posting here because he had got another job, nothing to do with being 'damned if he did and damned if he didn't'.

Also if the dev's dont like being called liars it would be advisable for them to stop lying.

+1

I don't think they have lied in the last months. The only big one lie was at the release.

Luthier is giving us updates about the development and we can witness of that updates directly on the game.

Roflmao, that's so spot on. http://www.cheesebuerger.de/images/s...frech/n027.gif

Must be 1946:rolleyes:

Seriously, Alpha
I have appreciation for the job you do as a moderator.
Many seem to not understand?
Why they are chastised for attempting to communicate with the dev's, 1C.
It's going on nine months, since release. Nine months since repairs were begun. It's time to "birth" a community manager on this forum. I'll give you two "good" reasons......You & Nearmiss. Why? The ongoing fecal storm, shouldn't be within the realm of your responsibilities. It is the responsibility of a "Community Manager". None has been appointed or announced. I am going to go out on a limb (tree);) Saying? "Mixing moderating duties with personal opinions and using a tone of a "Community Manager" with the customers/participants of this forum has been a mistake."

A mistake, that was not intentional, a mistake that just evolved/happened.
So, it's time for a Community Manager. I credit you for knowing it better than anyone. I have a lot of respect for you Alpha, you have been and I do believe, always will be, a significant contributor to our community.

Thank You

Thoughts from the bushes...
 

As you can see I am a complete lurker... in fact I am a ninja lurker who only comes out once in awhile just for kicks. I have been playing this game since 2001 or whenever the first IL2 came out. So guess what whether you like it or not my opinions and observations count.

First off I didn't even purchase this game because I didn't have the rig at the time to play it and still don't but actually can play on med settings @ 30 fps so for me that was a nice surprise. Although I didn't go through all the pain early adopters did in fact I just got the game for like 30 bucks off steam.

But as an avid simmer I can pretty much tell you what happened and how you guys have compounded it. It all stems from UBI pushing the game to release before it was ready. Although I can see how they were tired of waiting and wanted to see some return on there investment on a project that has been started and restarted again and again with no results.

The proper thing would have been to been honest from the beginning and just been upfront about the status of the game. Instead of blowing smoke up everyone's asses. But that is not what happened and then the developers can't figure out why everyone is pissed off.

Infact Oleg seemed to be very passionate about the whole project and was actually trying to stand up against UBI to not release the game unfinished. I only wished he had a lil more balls to drop a dime on them and tell the community exactly what was going on. But due to contractional obligations and the threat of probably being sued he took a walk... or was shown the door.

As far as I am concerned UBI has a history of wanting its money regardless of what the product maybe or may not be take a look at Silent Hunter 5... what a fiasco that was... and unfortunately a waste. But that is where COD is different, there is a much bigger following with patient simmers who will continue to support the game through its add ons.

We are talking about people here that have been playing this game and supporting you as developers and UBI as publishers for over a decade I have to agree its a bit of a slap in the face how people are ignored on this forum.

Oh... and I hope you realize that all these "people" who criticized the developers on this forum will surely migrate there google translated gripes over to the Sukhoi.Ru forum.

People who get pissed off (and on) on forums will find you either way to vent their frustrations... we are like herpes.. you can tell yourself it will be better, but we just wont go away.

Thoughts from the bushes...
 

As you can see I am a complete lurker... in fact I am a ninja lurker who only comes out once in awhile just for kicks. I have been playing this game since 2001 or whenever the first IL2 came out. So guess what whether you like it or not my opinions and observations count.

First off I didn't even purchase this game because I didn't have the rig at the time to play it and still don't but actually can play on med settings @ 30 fps so for me that was a nice surprise. Although I didn't go through all the pain early adopters did in fact I just got the game for like 30 bucks off steam.

But as an avid simmer I can pretty much tell you what happened and how you guys have compounded it. It all stems from UBI pushing the game to release before it was ready. Although I can see how they were tired of waiting and wanted to see some return on there investment on a project that has been started and restarted again and again with no results.

The proper thing would have been to been honest from the beginning and just been upfront about the status of the game. Instead of blowing smoke up everyone's asses. But that is not what happened and then the developers can't figure out why everyone is pissed off.

Infact Oleg seemed to be very passionate about the whole project and was actually trying to stand up against UBI to not release the game unfinished. I only wished he had a lil more balls to drop a dime on them and tell the community exactly what was going on. But due to contractional obligations and the threat of probably being sued he took a walk... or was shown the door.

As far as I am concerned UBI has a history of wanting its money regardless of what the product maybe or may not be take a look at Silent Hunter 5... what a fiasco that was... and unfortunately a waste. But that is where COD is different, there is a much bigger following with patient simmers who will continue to support the game through its add ons.

We are talking about people here that have been playing this game and supporting you as developers and UBI as publishers for over a decade I have to agree its a bit of a slap in the face how people are ignored on this forum.

Oh... and I hope you realize that all these "people" who criticized the developers on this forum will surely migrate there google translated gripes over to the Sukhoi.Ru forum.

People who get pissed off (and on) on forums will find you either way to vent their frustrations... we are like herpes.. you can tell yourself it will be better, but we just wont go away.

these are forums for a videogame.... thats all... just a freaking game...
fix whatever the problem ur having with ur egos is and get back to what this forum is about eh? a game.... mistakes happen, you fix them, remember not to make them again, then move on...

Well, I can't believe I took the time to read every single post, I guess I should subrscribe to the thread and make it worth the time I just wasted.

I'm locking this now, as most people seem to have had a say. I'm sure Luthier has seen it and I assume that was the point of the thread.