The (Almost) Invicible Spit!
 

Got clobbered by a E4 at France flew all the way back to Folkstone before my engine decided to finally fail and i ended up crashing into a house :(

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The FM/DM really need to be fixed....

Agreed, especially the tank explosion that doesn't leave a scratch LOL

P.S. I could see through the wing.

cant seem to get anywhere near a spit after it starts turning now, good job i fly both im not good enough to fight spit anymore.

It works both ways, A BF I hit exploded in a masive fire ball.....it carried on and landed back in France. It's the DM not the Spit in particular.

Yes but that damage is only given by Flak as the reds have no cannons... so it's not so annoying atm.

Just chased a spit from over France to half way across the channel.
SOB absorbed near all my cannon rounds and much of my nose guns!
I must say I like how much harder it is to shoot aircraft down in CoD than IL2.

I'm not sure if thats a good thing, especially with cannon. It would take very few 20mm cannon shells to take down a fighter, if you actually hit it!
I witnessed the '109 fireball' last night, and thought WTF! when the plane just kept flying.

Id bet that a spit could take a bunch of them when you cant get a good gun solution.
I mean when all you can hit is the tail section from direct 6 there isn't a whole lot to damage there.
Seems with the 109's to be the fuel tanks igniting.On second thought Im not sure how they keep flying...?

Well, with a 109 I try to get very close to Hurricanes and Spitfires in order to score as many cannon hits as possible since the recoil is shaking your plane and subsequently also your aim. From the direct 6 o´clock position you can shred of the tail, disable the elevator controls and the rudder controls. With shredded elevators, the target is most liekly doomed.

Most of the time I play on the receiving end in SPitfires and I see 109s opening up at a relatively moderate distance (200-300) at you. In the cockpit , one can see all the nice tracers passing you and often in these situations you´ll get soem wholes in the wings. SOmetimes it also shreds the controls in the wings.

Definte negative effect with hits i nthe wings is that it loses soem lift and your turning rate is increased, as well as the tendency to stall in a turn due to the additional energy loss due to the whole(s).

I don't need help in shooting stuff down, has nothing to do with what I posted.
In old IL2, when you dropped a few 20mm shells on an enemy aircraft something would simply fall off, like a wing, which would pretty much kill the aircraft.
Now, if you don't hit it in a vital spot, your not going to get the kill. The wings don't just drop off anymore at the drop of a hat. A well placed burst will remove pieces sure, but not in the same way IL2 was.

EDIT: Since when is 200-300 meters a moderate distance? I thought that was WAY out there. I usually only open up at around 50 meters.
Here you have to have some gunnery skill, or at least more than in IL2.

I have no clue how severe the effects with the MG/FF was on enemy planes in the Battle of Britain in reality, so I have no comparison for reality and modeled in-game.
I have to agree o nthe effects of the 20mm cannons in the Il-2 series. But I have no clue wehter that was close to reality or not as I stated above :) .

The latest info on that was this website link posted here i nthe forums about the damage of WW2 rounds: http://www.quarry.nildram.co.uk/WW2guneffect.htm

It seems MG/FF M shells explode on contact and rarely do internal damage. I still think that E-1 with H ammo is an ultimate weapon. :grin:

I really like it this way, and hope they don't change it. I always felt the aircraft in IL2 were too fragile.

S!

Sometimes I really wonder how many here work on planes and I mean really maintain and dig in them etc. You would see that 20mm HE inside structure is NOT good ;) Nor will a stream of bullets make your wing aerodynamically better when losing panels or getting gaping holes.

What we have is a game that has to make compromises between playability and performance. So only thing we can really ask for is that the DM is consistent and tweaked accordingly.

Exactly people seem to think that damage won't cause a great deal of problems but in reality you would either bail from the aircraft or try not to induce loads in it from turns etc.. But noooo that's just visual damage HELLO the skin is part of the structure as well it has to deal with loads... Back in il2 if my 109 got a cannon hole in the wing my manoeuvrability was impeded the balance was screwed and I would be running for home. The only reason I was running for home in that spit was due to the engine damage apart from that i could still out turn a 109 lmao....

They really need to work on the damage model and fm now

Luthier on Steam patch release:

Our main priorities now are:

1. Physics and FM. This means plane behavior in the air, brand new landing gear model on the ground, collision modeling including tree collision (if performance allows), and improved vehicle physics.
...............

There should be aerodynamic effect/degradation with aircraft damage, especially some wing lift but I think the wing would still perform basically with some panels missing, in IL_2 there was noticeable loss of lift on the damaged wing.

He did say once before he was going to turn the pilot into a crisp when the a/c fireballed.

I think the flames on the 109 that go out are perhaps modelling self sealing tanks?

The spitfire used a stressed skin this means it was designed to take more loads allowing the designers to remove weight from the spars and ribs therefore it makes more sense that when it is damaged it is likely to have a big impact on it's performance and the loads it can deal with!!!

That's why this "it's only panels is completely wrong!

I hear what you are saying Krupi, but the 'problems' are in fact universal....So I think your thread title may have been a wee bit 'incendiary' (I know you're a big 109 fan....so am I lol). :grin:

Observe.......

http://i761.photobucket.com/albums/x...2-34-05-32.jpg

Trust me mate, this is taken from a track, and believe me he was flying along like this merrily for a good 5 minutes at least. :grin:

Whilst I agree that performance should perhaps be more affected (I recall there is some lift degredation? Could be wrong on that) I have also seen RL photos of aircraft landing and manoeuvring in far worse conditions. I actually think the CoD damage model is by far one of its strongest points. On another day, the 109 you were fighting could have easily buggered your aileron control cables....I think you got lucky and the damage looks worse than it actually is.

I've shot down sh*t loads of planes in CoD (screenie or it didn't happen, I know lol) primarily 109's

http://i761.photobucket.com/albums/x...2-17-33-55.jpg

and by and large I have found it to be one of the more realistic elements. Very few 'Hollywood' style catastrophic explosions, kills etc (particularly with .303's, which I love) and this tallies far more with many RL accounts I've read. From the 500 plus 109's alone I've bagged, I think I've only sawed off a whole wing maybe 10-15 times. Good stuff. :)

Have any of you ran that script which tells you what damage has been inflicted on the enemy? Some may be thinking 'he hasn't got a scratch', when in fact he is completely fecked internally and its game over for him. :)

As for the Oerlikon being ineffective or less effective than IRL, I disagree. Sometimes you'd be amazed at how much you are actually missing when you think you are hitting......its pretty difficult to do (especially without the stabilising influence of airspeed.)

109 cannons are fecking lethal (both stock E3 and E4), if you try not to be a sniper and only fire when you're sure you'll hit (ala Hartmann). This generally means up close. The odd Snap shot is fine, but get in close and let em have it is the order of the day methinks. :grin:

But aye Krupi, there is room for improvement no doubt, although I'm not going to gripe too much at present because I feel its one of the stronger points. Hopefully the FM revisions and physics will play a part in making life more difficult with this kind of damage. Point I'm making is that it goes both ways. If you can tell me how to upload a track ( I have a media fire account) I'll show you me landing a 109 perfectly with part of the wing missing, no left aileron, numerous internal damages and having little bother.

Cheers.

Yes that 109 is not good but I have never recieved that damage from a red aircraft only flak the damage I was given in the spit was from another aircraft...

And as I explained in my last post due to the design of the spits stressed skins damage that creates a gaping hole in both sides would cause a hell of a lot of problems.

P.S. I love both the 109 and the spit, I was seriously considering jumping to a red squad a few months back (the dream of flying a 190 again stopped me) so you won't find any bias here I have been bit**ing about the 109 fm/dm for quite some time.

If that was indeed the instance where your attacker was me then Il say one thing..fair play being able to do some of those moves infront of me if your wings looked like that,,lol

Lol yes mate I forgot it was you that smacked me haha, u were in an e4 right?

No mate..e-1

Really!!!!! Now that is interesting...

done 1 sortie and was only in a E1, got 3 human kills and 5ai bombers

You may have seen a e4 against my name when i was parked on the AF, had loads of lag trying to pick AC etc which made me give up in the end and Exit

Was that for me krupi? If so I think I haven't explained properly. With some panels missing the rest of the wing would still generate some lift, it doesn't necessarily mean it will fall out of the sky and of course it would be structurally weakened as it is a stressed skin construction. It may not get you home depending on the loss of lift and it would be ridiculous to think you could survive an attempt to dogfight in it but some Spitfires did get home with quite a lot of damage (not as good as the Hurri though).

Thats cause Hurris were design with fabric covered wings and then later replaced with metalic covers... not sure if they were stressed covers... I shot the wing tip of a hurri off last night and I am sure he managed to get home :cool:

Yeah it's not really difficult to land with half a wing gone in a Hurri. I even had a perfect symmetric landing flap, full hydraulics etc... !

Yes, the Hurri strength came from its frame, like an old fashioned car built on a chassis. I don't think even the metal skinning of the wings replaced that principle. It was 'Old technology' for 1940, a straight development from the Hawker Hart/Hind/Demon etc biplane series using many of the same jigs to build her. Unlike the Spit which is more like todays 'stressed skin/box' cars.

I also landed a Hurricane ok with the wing tip missing - just a few inches of it. Not so unbelievable but there's a lot to be done regarding the half-wing flyers. From what Lutheir said, I'm expecting that to be in the next patch.

Tom, Track or it didn't happen....You know the rules. :grin:

I've never managed to land anything with half a wing missing, you will always spin out and die. Are you sure this isn't a 'slight exaggeration', and that only the tip of the Hurricane wing was missing? You can land all the fighters in this event. It is not unusual, and perfectly possible IRL. It is this kind of damage I refer to with my track of the 109 (left wing tip and aileron gone with other damage). Can anyone tell me how to upload tracks (again please?).

Mind you, in the earlier versions of CoD, I once landed a Hurricane with no engine at all (literally, the entire nose was off lol). It could be done with the 109, too. Perhaps you are just referring to the CoD initial release, if so maybe...but not now AFAIK.

Nothing to do with any particular plane.....'Dubious' things happen with them all. :)