On this game and it's faults in a non ranting way (yes it is possible)
 

Recently I acquired Men of War Assault Squad. I never played this series before and since I'm a fan of the strategy genre I thought I rectify that.

I popped the box installed the game, which would run after some troubleshooting, but which game just runs out of the box nowadays, eh.

So I selected skirmish, picked heroic and well landed my sorrow excuse for a butt on the first beach.

And there the fun started for my family. I think they learned more cursing words in 5 minutes then the rest of their whole life.

I have to admit I didn't understand the rants on this forum when I popped in to troubleshoot the game but I learned soon enough to understand the sentiment behind them. However I'm not one to rant like an idiot I rather hope to get my point across.

I'll point out some of the stuff that shouldn't be in a game like this but my main focus will be on the following. I hope the Devs seriously look into this and that someone is hired to work on an AI. Yup, an AI, not an approved AI cause sadly the one that is present at the moment is just not. It is not horrible, terrible and just not sucks it really is absent. And guys (and gals be there any) lets be honest the basis of any strategy game is an AI.

To my list of points:

Armour:

1. Ordering armour to retreat (under fire) actually makes them turn there arse on the enemy presenting a juicy target for quite a bit longer time then just using reverse.

2. Units persist in selecting their own shell type, while I tell them otherwise. And trust me you are not going to pop that Tiger using HE shells

3. Crew members die from ricochets, without a message to me while looking at the armour. They die from ricochets that couldn’t have hurt them in the first place.

4. Armour often gets stuck on damaged walls or stones in the field.

5. Most armour can drive their gun into a wall and shoot through it.

6. Enemy armour often decides to cruise a bit in front of my AT guns for whatever purpose

7. Enemy armour must have thermal vision cause of their see through smoke ability.

8. Enemy armour can shoot through 4 buildings cause they spotted my armour hiding behind a house there. Window glare anyone? Oh and no houses have no inside walls.

9. Enemy armour can shoot at my armour but I not at them cause the gun angle is to steep (same armour types).

10. The shortest distance to any point is a triangle through enemy territory.


Infantry:

1. Reloading while prone? No can do.

2. Like armour, when ordered to run for it. First you run to the enemy before running back so you give them ample time to shoot you in the head.

3. Trying to kill a Tiger with your BB gun, it's so much fun.

4. I know lying prone can be obnoxious but with that prowling Tiger around I wish you would stay prone and not take self initiative even if I disabled it all.

5. If you get shot at you could shoot back you know.

6. I know concrete walls can be threatening but you won't kill them or either the soldier behind it by emptying your whole ammo supply on them.

7. As medic you always take the lead when advancing on the enemy. They won't shoot at medical staff you know.

8. When peeking around a building and looking straight into a MG42 it is advised not to repeat the exercise.

9. When ordering troops from behind cover to advance they can form up while they walk not first mill around and walk away 10 minutes later.

10. If a sniper is targeting you, hmmmm. DUCK!


Other weapons of war:

1. Why oh why do half of my AT guns keep facing to the side of the map no matter which direction I point them.

2. I didn’t know you acquired the Carmegadon rights, but my static gun soldiers are not grannies to be run over.

3. HE shells do not punch through armour, I know it is hard to believe but you’ve AP ammo to do that.

4. A bazooka has a bit larger range then 5 meters

5. Why do I have to build 5 minutes on two sandbags with my grunt while a mortar setup magicks in their sandbags?

6. If I can direct control move a unit through a gap I’m sure the AI can manage. Ooh, not!

7. Trucks/AT gets stuck on slope of hills cause it seems to steep. The sissies need to floor it or munch on their steroids more I’d say.


General:

1. Units do no appear at the spot they when saved. This can be rather upsetting with nasty enemy units.

2. Units load with the wrong weapon selected.

3. Units lost their routing when loading and just stand up and wait.

4. Why is everything so more accurate and deadly in direct control?

5. The shortest and most save route is most often the straight line I order my troops on. However following this route seems non optional.

6. Can you tell me why that Tiger tank that is rolling up to me exactly knows where my units are and which are a threat? Even if I know 100% sure the AI shouldn’t be able to know I’ve my units located where they are.

7. The same goes for my units. How the hell do they know something is approaching without me spotting it yet. Must be the other side of the coin, the divine side that is.

8. Units that are incapacitated are loaded in a catatonic state and might block static weaponry from being remanned.


I hope this list made the reader smile a bit from time to time but all in it is a sad fact that this game has an exceptional eye for detail and versatility: your sniper keeps his rifle up out of the water while swimming and challenging level design but misses the boat fully on AI path finding and unit control. As a customer I pay you with my very hard earned money for what you advertised and that is sadly not a tech guide to WWII vehicles or a direct controlled miniature puppet shooter but a real time strategy game.

You will need to hire some adequate personnel to work on the AI. No offense if you did, I know how hard it is (and no this is no application for that function whatsoever) else this series is doomed to stay what it could have been, awesome.

Regards,

Dennis.

That's a pretty impressive list coming from somebody that just started playing. I'd have to say that you pretty much covered most of the bugs. In regards to MoWAS, reinforcements are the key factor for having fun IMO. With a little tweak you can have enough points to have a blast playing this game, giving you plenty of reinforcements. I tweak the game a little more then that but I play to have fun. I've been playing these games for a few years and I love MoWAS. That's not to say that I don't give our cat a lesson in profanity.

hi Dennis,

very recognisable indeed, this list of yours. Also the swearing.... WHAT the BLEEP ;).:lol:

And yes, i wás smiling while reading..... but that's because for me the fun of playing this game
is so much greater than those annoying bugs.

I can spend hours on just cleaning up the battlefield, after a skirmish is completed... nice for practicing too.

It's a love/hate affair with me and Mowas, but learning to play it,
slowly makes the hate fade away (like old soldiers can do so graciously.....:cool:)

Don't forget that the devellopers are still working on improvements, and
if you get to know the game editor, you can tweak the game.

Here an example of what you can do (found it on this forum, dont remember who wrote it..) :

UNLIMITED MP
Start the mission u want to play, save in the beginning,

Then go to My documents>My games> MoW:AS>profiles>*YOUR NAME*>save>*THE NAME OF THE SAVE U DID IN BEGINNING OF MISSION*

Now, open mission.scn with notepad, and search for "{reinforcement" without quotes, then the first hit, scroll down and you see:


{reinforcements
{scoreTotal 2000}
{scoreCurrent 1002}
{"player_flag"
{state "-"}
{text ""}
{image rus_skirmish}
{hint ""}
{count -1}
{score 0}
{delay 0}

Edit the numbers in green to 99999 to get unlimited MP, and save the .scn file.

Love it or leave it, and if you love it, you learn it :rolleyes:
In my humble opinion, mowas is awesome.

Happy gaming :grin:
Peter

A very good post indeed, is been a while since i read a good post,

you have cover most of the headache that all of us have in skirmish without going in to a rant, can you do a multiplayer review too?

If you can try to get the original Men of War. At least thats how I learned to play (and a little of the tutorial in Faces of war)

The AI isn't the best and the game is really about microing your units individually. It can be a bit of a pain but I prefer it over CoH style squad control, just because you'll never pull off the same amazing stuff with that system as you can with controlling individual guys.

The majority of the things you've listed I feel aren't really bugs. Even shots which don't penetrate a tank are going to **** up the crew and cause serious injuries. If you want armour to reverse, shift click very close behind them and create a path.

Stuff like not being able to shoot the same place as AI armour? It sounds to me like they're on a different elevation, as I've never seen that happen.

So overall, the game really isn't about singleplayer. The skirmish missions are there for a bit of co-op, but the real heart of Assault squad is the MP.

Nice list, and the whole post is a bit funny. All you mentioned is pretty much true but ... you need to bear in mind this is not a traditional strategy game. This is real time tactics game and what it basically means is that your soldiers are as good as your micromanagement. Just watch this online game:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=brHyZGkwb9w

Instinct lost 8 men and killed 58 and an armoured vehicle, majority of the kills were made by just one paratrooper squad. So you see AI maybe not so great, but if you enjoy fast micromanagement you can pull off nice very impressive victories. Remember even the most insignificant infantry man can become a hero in this game.

Speaking as a gamer who never plays MP. I love this game in SP. It wasn't the type of Skirmish that I was hoping for but the game looks great, love all the units, been playing this since I got it(this and ToW2 and 3).

I still didn't try out MP in this game and the main reason is the standard speed of the game (I play 1.5 so I can manage my units over the map) and the AI.

As with starcraft I/II the winner of the game is not the strategic/tactical superior player but the one with the best "clicking" skill (I watched some youtube movies for that conclusion). This game is a bit better then starcraft but still the difference is there so I highly doubt it'll be enjoyable for someone like me.

If the AI would be improved on some points I mentioned then maybe more tactical/strategic players stand a chance. Up till then I'll live with my 50 hours per skirmish game (heroic difficulty is a "real nasty female" ;))

Hi everybody, I have just been reading the post presented by Bliep, and totally concur with the games bugginess. However I been searching for a game of quality of this ilk for some time and I think I have found it. To get to the point I am currently playing MOWAS Normandy skirmish game at normal level with Fog of War enabled. Ihave managed to control the first line of Germen defence but thats as far as I go. The main problems I encounter are the following. My solitary Sherman is easily knocked out, Chaffee tank reinforcements turn out to be One Hit Wonders, and waiting for my MP to refill seems to take an age and leaves my side vulnerable to counter attacks. Plus my first wave of troops have now all ran out of ammo "bugger" mI find all that micro management a bit of a pain. Then the German tanks stand off and pound my carefully planned defensive line. I'm open to suggestions. Also while I'm at it, on my version of the game (retail updated to patch 1,97) there are a couple of problems I hope you guys can help solve. 1. My spread out unit command does not work, and 2, My waypoint funtion does not work either. I,m so glad to get that off my chest .Thankyou.

The single best piece of information I can give you it to break all of your squads down into single men, then place everyone individually with sectors of interlocking fire with the MG providing overwatch (think actual infantry FM stuff here). Do that, and you can hold out against most things, put a mortar behind them, in cover, and you have a position.

Also, when you kill someone, loot them, take all of that ammo and those grenades/AT grenades.

The first bit to know about success in this game is getting a steady hang on Direct Control, the AI is pretty ditzy and clueless but if you get a good hand at DC then some of your troubles will melt. It seems like this game was built around Direct Control much in the same way FEAR was built around using SloMo....use it and win, dont and die!

About the tanks:

2: The AI loads different shells based on what targets it sees at the very moment...if it sees infantry first it loads HE if armor, then AP. Yes, its very annoying to load AP in your tank, thinking you havea spot covered only to come back moments later seeing it a burning wreck because it was firing the wrong rounds, ive had my tanks, no shit switch to HE to fire at tanks, my guess is because they are firing at the guy on the top, why they would prioritize the AA MG guy is beyond me...

4: Yes, this has been eating my ass in MoW since ive played it, tanks gettting stopped and or destroyed by hitting a rock, flipping and crap. Havent had much trouble getting truly stuck stuck but if you wait a few seconds the vehicle usually lets you move it again. Its annoying for sure.

5: Thatd be a change from MoW because in MoW if your gun barrel was inside something you couldnt fire, had to back up and try again lolz, or else just run down the wall...

6: By cruise you mean they just drive right in front it? Its most likely them following their pathing and your AT is just sitting there at the time...

7: yeah, smoke I dont get either, ive tried it and it seems to only work for crawling infantry otherwise its a friggin waste.....

8: The AI seems to see everything you have because the AI plays with fog of war OFF!!

Infantry:

4: The AI will move somewhat if a vehicle or grenade comes near them, the thing that is annoying is they dont usually go back to their previous state and wind up dead.....

5: The problem here is the weapon your guy has, has a shorter engagement range then the dude shooting him. This is retarded but i found it out awhile ago. Guns have a Max Range and an Aim Range, Aim Range is the distance from which your AI will return fire without YOU Directly giving them an order to do so. Also, Rifles fire further then either SMGs or LMGs in that game, so if your men are being fired at by rifles then they are probably out of range to fire back at all....

6: Yeah, I always found this to be stupid, you men see a single target and just popopopopopopopopopopopppopopopopopopoop until he dies....Yeah, only way to stop that is put your men on Return Fire not Fire At Will. When they do start firing endlessly at something quickly go into DC and get off it they will stop w/e they were doing.

8: Yeah, if they are placed in a spot that looks around corners they will do that as part of their script for that spot. You should just prone them and move them back out of LoF.

9: Yeah, moving squads I always found to be a pain in the ass in this game to. Sometimes they all follow sometimes one goes and the rest lag behind or dont move at all. I find it best to use 3-4 man squads to reduce casualties from AI incompetency such as this.

10: the Sniper Reticule is there to let YOU know your soldier is being aimed at, it isnt a magical beacon to let your man know he is. They will only cover once they recieve fire. Your best bet is to duck him yourself. mapping the 3 stances, standing, crouched and prone to quickly accessible keys.

ive got mine to Page up for Raise Stance, Page Down for lower stance and Spacebar for stand to prone or prone to stand....Trying to get to the little buttons in the corner is a negatory and is never fast enough.

Other WoW:

2: Yeah, showing just why DC is so good to get a handle on, your vehicles do not path to avoid guns or anything, though I think that should be coded in...*hint hint 1c*

3: Only way to make them not change ammo is to keep them back on hold fire mode and when you see a tank move it up and DC it until the target is dead or just pop in and out as the targets present themselves. This game is very micromanagey to the point of holy shit at times but yeah....DCing tanks is like the only way, tank AI is hopelessly lost and will get all your tanks killed before you can even say WTF!?

4: Bazookas....Infantry Anti Tank weapons.....I lol at them, unless they were buffed in this game I dont even bother with them. I think the max range is 35m at which point you cant even hit a house...

General:

1-3 Save and Loading bugs...yeah those are in MoW as well and one such bugged the hell outta me on my custom mission. I would save to record a section of it and then come back and the planes *my objective* were friggin UNDERGROUND!?!?!?! Also some of my men were totally GONE! vanished from existance...yeah save/loading bugs are annoying as hell.....

4: prolly to promote people to use it, this game seems to be built around it...

6: The AI isnt stuck using the Fog of War like we are, I play with it off against the AI because the AI gets enough bonuses, they dont need the biggest one of all....knowledge of enemy unit positions.

Yes, your post made me lol a bit, its amusing to see so many bugs and you said some of them in rather amusing ways.

haha I laughed a bit, I do agree with some of the things there, wish my people would run from grenade, not duck and go HURR DURR CAPTAIN WHAT DO WE DOOOOS LOLOLOLOL

yea... anyways..