Why does my spit spin around before engine start..?
 

Seems like this was discussed awhile back, but..

When I jump online, and I am sitting in plane, usually spitfire, the plane slowly spins in a circle before I even start engine...

Then once engine is up and running, I often times cannot taxi onto the runway, etc..

Anybody else have this issue..?

Mike

Try using the brakes mate...

yeap is a bug
use brakes as Ze-Jamz suggested
i think it will be fixed with the upcoming patch

Happens to me too. I think there's a crafty rigger behind the tailplane moving it slowly anti-clockwise.

wind?

exactly ;-)

For some reason brakes don't seem to help with the spit, however they work fine with 109.

Maybe something's off with control settings..

I know my brakes are individually assigned as control axis in setup..

Hmmmmm

Thanks gents.

Mike

Bf109 had differential brakes.

Spit not. Anyway it should work if that rotation is the plane facing to wind.

And no, it's not a bug.

Yeah, I don't think it's wind.

Seems like even with engine running and brakes applied, I still can't steer the plane back into the turn.. Often times I just gun the throttle and take off in whatever direction I am facing, and hope for the best... :|


Mike

True, that's the typical behaviour of a taildragger plane; it faces to the wind. I fly a CAP10 in reality and behaves like that, I can assure it! :)

You csan see what happens by wind here:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UnFkvBhkQxw

At 5:30 I receive a windgust from the left and plane goes in that way. It's not torque, I had already pushed right rudder, so I had to push more.

Yes but you are close to takeoff speed, not stationary on the ground. You'd need storm force winds to do that to a stationary spitfire.

Probably there might be strong winds.

Some time ago I tested it with a 108 km/h wind and there's the effect into CoD:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xuMDBf6DUwE
2:35, there it is.

Your not crazy Mike

I have the exact same problem you have.. My breaks dont stop it either.. One time I did see it stop spinning.. but I think it had something to do with the lay of the land.. Hard to tell, but it looked like the tail got into a low spot and 'the wind' (?) was just not strong enought to push it anymore.. That or the plane was 'in line' with the wind?

But.. if 'the wind' is the cause.. than we are saying 'the wind' is strong enough to move the plane.. if that is true.. than my rudder should be able to 'counter/affect/adj' that movment once the wind gets near inline with the plane.. but that does not seem to be the case.. which is why I dont think it is the wind doing it

Spits do have differential brakes.

If you apply brakes via axis you can release brake on one wheel using rudder.

Ageed, wind,not a bug.
Does the tail wheel lock on these planes? Got to find out.

When you have a plane with the wind blowing from the side it will act like a weathercock (if that's the right word) because of all the wind against the rudder the aircraft will turn into the wind.

But if you start the engine wouldn't the prop wash be much stronger than the wind? In ROF the propwash is modeled nicely so you can lift the tail from the ground while you are standing still when you have full throttle selected. And when you land and you're going the wrong way you can make the rudder more effective when you turn the engine back on.

I have stood behind prop aircraft in real life, and the prop wash is really strong. even with pretty 'weak' engines (engine of a glider (ash25mi) probably has something like 45hp)

Never mind about the breaks for a moment..

Let's assume for a moment that it is the wind that is causing the Spit to sit-n-spin

Ok, so far so good..

Than.. why doenst the Bf-109 sit-n-spin?

Or any other plane for that matter

What is special about the Spit?

Your 109 doesnt? Cos here it does for sure.

Yours does?

Ok dissregard than..

Ill admit I have not flown the 109 as much as the Spit.. but the few times I have it did not sit-n-spin like the spit does

I cant say always, cos i was not paying attention, but very often is accurate.
I am watching this thread with interest because I am not sure if it is the wind or not (tho I admit it is a valid explanation so far): if I recall correctly my 109 always spins counterclockwise, and that is what makes me doubt.

Maybe it is the Corkscrew effect.

http://www.free-online-private-pilot...odynamics.html

If it's prop wash or the wind does a little opposite rudder stop the movement? When it tried it this worked.

Ok..

And just to be clear, that is as soon as you spawn in right? I mean even before you fire up the engine it starts to spin

On that note, with the engine and rudder in op dir I am able to stop the spin.. but I never seem to be able to turn aginst the spin (read just cancle the spin)

When I turn into it.. it will turn pretty quickly for a little while, about 20 deg.. but than stop again as in no effect..

So it does have that wind vector feel to it but.. odd like.. sometimes it acts like you would expect and in other cases it dont

all in all makes taxi a nightmare.. typically when I spawn I just punch it and hope there is enough room in front of me to make it ;)

To cancel the spin I hold rudder fully deflected and hold brake, increase revs slightly and Spitty turns opposite to spin. When pointing in correct direction release brake, rudder neutral and re apply brakes untill engine or oil temp correct. Take off as per norm for a spitty!


I spawned in a hanger and the spitty still spun around exactly as if it were out of the hanger!

Right

Launch FMB and set some strong wind flow. Watch your plane turning until face the wind...

But, PLEASE, use some accurate tool to send us proof of that: Cliffs Of Dover have winds...

As one said earlier: it's not a bug, it's the wind... :cool:

Funny to see some expert in FM with this kind of trouble. Well, test it yourself:

1) In FMB, set strong wind;

2) let your fighter (109, hurricane, spit) idle and let it face the wind;

3) Start engine, use throttle and rudder;

4) Watch the strong wind acting during taxi.

5) Yes: taxi IS a nightmare in strong wind conditions...

6) You have gusts in CloD too...

Made my day. Thanks!

LOL!

You poor thing..

Let it go!

Before you pop a blood vessel or something!

LoBiSoMeM I know your still very Very VERY upset with me for disagreeing with you in that 'other' thread..

But you following me around (stalking) looking for an opportunity to respond really sets a new low in hurt feelings..

May I make a recommendation?

You should think twice about posting in a open forum if your going to get so upset that you feel the need to stalk people in the forums just for disagreeing with you.

Just a thought!

Agree with you, propwash effect should be stronger in CoD, maybe stronger than the RoF one, because of powerful engines and propellers... And I say that comparing to real life, not just comparing a simulator with another.

Once I stood behind a B-25 taxiing in an airshow, it was about 30 meters away and I almost fell to the ground (minute 2:20):
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q3P_MzYMHc0

:)

Ok, but do you understand that isn't a bug, but wind acting?

Well one thing we know for sure, it is not sun spots! ;)

[QUOTE=LoBiSoMeM;331354]Launch FMB and set some strong wind flow. Watch your plane turning until face the wind...

But, PLEASE, use some accurate tool to send us proof of that: Cliffs Of Dover have winds...

As one said earlier: it's not a bug, it's the wind... :cool:

Ace of Aces is correct. It is more than the wind. If it is, there should be chocks in place. The aircraft always starts to turn even before starting up - even if it is sheltered in by a sandbag pit. At startup, the prop is not even rich or lean, the oil in the prop hasn't warmed up enough to allow the prop to take a bite of the air until after a few minutes of warm up.

I think it is a bug!

No propwash at startup. The prop can't be adjusted fine or coarse until it warms up. The prop appears to be in a feathered position until it responds to the coarse or fine controls after about 3-5 minutes of warmup. Then the propwash starts to work.

[QUOTE=Catseye;331391]Just apply brakes and the "bug" goes away...

You do not understand: wind act pushing the side of the aircraft. The barriers to block wind don't exists in simulated CloD physical world, neither "chocks in" state like IL-2 1946, I guess. So, when you start mission in strong cross wind, your light plane will start to spin. Normal.

Next time I am going to watch and see if the grass is blowing, and to see if the plane stops spinning once facing the wind..

Cause I seem to remember the plane turning 360+ degrees..

Guess if thats the case, it is a bug.. If not, it's the wind..

Mike

I would be ok ok ok dude shut up. Help me out here my hand is hot. I got a 6 pack in the cooler behind my seat. Make yourself useful.

Short pathetic video i made now:

[youtube]spfYapxpBsY[/youtube]

10 m/s wind. All Ok here with winds. I'll test if some bug accurs that makes plane spins + 360º.

[QUOTE=LoBiSoMeM;331393]I think you don't understand. These are not planes made of paper, they have weight and friction on the wheels when stationary. Yes, it may well be the wind that is spinning the planes but the fact that the wind is spinning the plans while stationary has to be a bug. Maybe somthing like the wheels have no friction in reverse, that would probably do it. Edit: scratch that, of course youd end up being blown backward on the ground at stupid speed lol.

[QUOTE=Robotic Pope;331408]No, it's not a bug. Just maybe overmodeled, but one Spitfire has a rotating tailwheel and a big vertical stabilizer, and it's not an 747.

And - please - look:

[youtube]B2aDeIaG6po[/youtube]

Respect winds, please! :-D

If something is overmodeled in a sim it can be called a bug.

Agreed..

The coefficient of friction seems to be too low..

That is why this bug seems so odd.. In that it kind of acts like wind.. but it kind of doesn't either..

I mean sure in high winds I would expect the spit to move..

If the tires are aired up to max and it was sitting on a slick cement runway..

But in a grass field?

Something just does not feel right about that

Agreed 100%

Maybe sometime we can have Working Windsocks - if there is wind I want to know its direction and how damned windy it is .......:grin:

Decide yourself: you are a science man or a "seems to be" man? ;)

I really don't know in wich airspeed and angle one WWII Spitfire will start to spin, and in all the other variables, like terrain, etc.

But the rough behavior of wind is OK. And a Spitfire isn't a 747: it's not that heavy.

AGAIN people here will start some flame war about nothing: people believed that aircraft spin for nothing... Some said that is because of wind acting... Some believe that wind don't look ok, because can't taxi... I post a video when I can taxi... And here we go... "In that it kind of acts like wind.. but it kind of doesn't either"...

Funny as hell!

That is your opinion and your welcome to it!

Sorry if it upsets you that I dont agree with it

Thought there was windsocks in CoD? Or am I thinking of RoF?

I'm ok with the fact that you don't agree with logical arguments and videos. I'm used to it. Not upseted at all.

I'm glad that now you can turn your plane in CloD in a full 360º turn in strong wind conditions. Maybe now you can takeoff upwind too!

I'm happy to help! Now you can focus in all flaws of 46 and CloD FMs.

If saying that makes you feel better.. more power to you!

there are but do they work? If the sock is pointing to the grass and my Spit starts friggin turning it aint the damned wind for sure ............:grin:

[QUOTE=LoBiSoMeM;331393]I'm going to test and see just how far the aircraft will turn. If it is wind affect on the fuselage, then it should stop turning when the nose comes directly into the wind. If it keeps turning further, then there is a problem with coding.

I'll post results.

Cheers

Hmmm....just tried this again in the cross country mission.
The spit didn't move before engine start, but as soon as the prop started spinning the plane started rotating as well, brakes seem to work in stopping the rotation.
So maybe it's a torque effect?

Yes... It works...

One point that I really don't understand is why people don't go to FMB and just test things...

I'm saying since a long time ago that this sim engine is really cool... But people now are asking if windsocks works in CloD? Yes, at least the windsock strong works ok, animated, pointing the direction and strenght of winds... But it's a Windsock STRONG (really strong in CloD, ACE maybe can tweak the "WM" of this object someday), so, it will always "pointing to the grass" if you aren't in the middle of a hurricane... http://forum.1cpublishing.eu/showthread.php?t=23586

And for the other guy, I posted a video showing tha plane turning until face the wind... Really, I don't know what people want sometimes...

Strange!

Hey Ned

No it is not the torque.. because the Spit will sit and spin with the engine off.. Not on all maps.. but some.

Yes, some maps with wind or with unlevel surface...

By the way... 60Km/h winds + windsocks + smoke in bugged CloD...

[youtube]1SOsXC58GqM[/youtube]

We reach the point when WIND is a bug! Thanks God we don't have dynamic weather yeat...

I see, just a thought of mine. After having the Spit (and the Hurricane in the cross country mission) spin not before but after engine start makes me detract from my earlier thought about the wind as well.
The 109 in the same mission pretty much didn't spin, so maybe it's just something with the british fighters that need to be ironed out.

I give up... remove the wind of the sim, please.

So looking at the responses thus far there seems two groups that belive in one of the two statements

1) A mild wind should be able to cause a spit to sit-n-spin in the middle of a grass field
2) A mild wind should not be able to cause a spit to sit-n-spin in the middle of a grass field

Granted some have provided videos as proof, but most have nothing to do with the topic at hand. The closest video to the topic at hand shows an airliner flexing and twisting in the wind.. but not moving. Now before you consider that as proof.. Take a close look at the title of the video, i.e.

EXTREME WIND at Keflavik airport...

Now I think it is safe to say that everyone agrees a Spitfire will move in EXTREME WINDS when sitting on a slick cement runway

But again that example does not relate to what is being seen in the game

What we are seeing in the game is a 4,000+lb Spitfire sitting in a filed of grass, engine off, spinning around in what appears to be far less than EXTREME WINDS. I think Catseye nailed it by pointing out that the 'symptom' is that of the friction between the tires and the ground being too small, which in turn allows the plane to spin freely. With that said, which of the two groups do you fall into?

In the group that don't assume that all the "spinning issue" was a bug, even without think a minute about WIND... And the even minor group of people that goes to FMB test things, and know that your "minor" wind isn't so "minor"... And we don't have all your "friction"assumed in a TAILWHEEL of a Spitfire... Maybe we need just some tweak, but isn't something "strange" as you all assume in the begining of the topic. Simple as that.

Test more the game and talk less in forums.

Oh..

Your back?

I thought you said you gave up?

Anyway glad you back!

So, based on your responce.. Ill put you down as being in group #1

Hey LoBiSoMeM

I think you may have me confused with someone else?

In that as you can see from my first post in this thread, i.e.

I did think a minute about wind

As a mater of fact I think if you take the time to read my posts, as opposed to glazing over them with your preconceived notions, you will see that wind was considered in each of my posts.

I hope that helps clear things up for you a bit!

Or put it your way.. Read more talk less in forums

[QUOTE=LoBiSoMeM;331393]Ok, I did an FMB evaluation (quick), placing the wind at different angles and different strengths at ground level. At 20m/s the aircraft really "snaps" the nose into the wind. (tail swings). At 10m/s it moves slowly until aligned head into the wind. If no wind, the aircraft does not move until engine starts, then slow gyro swing.

Sooooo, LoBiSoMeM is correct in identifying the wind. However, I fall into the camp with Ace of Aces in that there may be a coeficient of wheel drag that may be modeled a little too liberally. (MY opinion.) Seems to me that a 7 tonne aircraft should be a little more resistant to a wind of 10m/s. Thats about as fast as an olympic sprinter.

So, both of you guys are on the right track. Mine is only an observation without any imperical data to go on. So for me, the devs are the guys to evaluate it if it is brought to their attention.

Good flying chaps.

Well when two people disagree on a word like 'minor wind speed', I find it helpful to apply a number to the value when you can..

And in this case we can (see below).

But first lets take a look at Catseye's testing where he said..

Where

19kt = 22mph = 36kph = 10mps

Now lets apply a value to to "minor wind speed".. And not just any number, but one from the Australian Bureau of Meteorology, i.e.

Where

34kt = 39mph = 63kph = 18mps

Note that a 'warning' does not even go out in the 'real world' until the wind speed is nearly twice the wind speed that is causing the ingame Spitfire to sit-n-spin

Also take into consideration..

Most civilian airports have much lighter aircraft parked
Most civilian airports are made of cement runways not grass

And I 'think' you will begin to see 'the point view' of the people in category #2 below

1) People who belive a mild wind should be able to cause a spit to sit-n-spin in the middle of a grass field
2) People who belive a mild wind should NOT be able to cause a spit to sit-n-spin in the middle of a grass field

I hope that helps you 'see' it from our point of view!

That's a different question.

One question is if the plane should face the wind. The answer is yes.

The other question is... how many speed of wind is needed to face the wind in a grass field?

Well, obviously the speed of wind needed will be high, since plane weights and it's wheels have friction, plane will not rotate except in case of a very strong wind.

This weekend I'll fly a real taildragger again but from a grass field. If there's some wind I'll do the test to see what happens ;)


Anyway, most of the things we are discussing in this post will be adressed, since Luthier told that the taxiing behaviour will be corrected (I hope, introducing propwash and some more friction to the ground when static).

I was not talking about startup. In the video there are cuts, so I assume the plane started to taxi after warming up, but not in real time of the video.

Just see the 2:30 minute and you'll see that. When the B25 shows me its back, after a couple of secons I receive the propwash, it is clearly heard, and as I said, its force almost throw me to the ground.

I always set windspeed to 0 in the FMB and my 109 always turns left, never right after spawning - strange kind of wind. :confused:

Im pretty sure this is a bug.. What he is specifically talking about, I have seen this too and this does not behave like normal wind.

Maybe this FMB feature does not work properly, I've observed that temp and pressure are random on each scenario, maybe wind has some random component too...

Making and testing online missions I fixed Spitfire rotation issue by reducing wind AND gust power to 1-2 maximum AND setting different direction for them.

Planes also rotate when spawn on an inclined surface btw. Pay attention to this, the incline is often hardly noticeable.

Brakes in British planes require different control key than in German planes (3 keys set up in total for all planes).

Not a bug.

True it all, must take into account :)

Oleg promised windsocks, but they got blown away in the dynamic weather, the spit spinning thing is a bug, its that simple. Wherever I play (online servers) the spit spins as soon as I spawn, nothing to do with prop wash.

i bleieve it is a bug.

i Have it every time i set up a Online flight, and my plane jsut slides or spins, like it was on a icefield.

Yes, Oleg promised and delivered...

[youtube]1SOsXC58GqM[/youtube]

This guy is a joke... You don't even read all posts an jump here ASAP to talk crap! Congratulations! Number one critic of CloD! :cool:

Read all other posts and you will see why Spits spins as soon as you spawn...

To the "new" wind guy, the FM expert: nice! Now you know how winds works in CloD. Maybe some tweak is needed. I believe that smoke animation can be more affected by wind, and maybe less effect over Spitfires grounded. We need more work on this point.

But don't change the subject... You AGAIN don't go in FMB to test things and jump here to talk a lot. You never learn. You don't even test in FMB if the plane stops spinning facing wind and now will bother the world as a expert in winds behaviour.

Bye!

Yes. As I said EARLIER, maybe just some tweak in wind acting over some objects... If some talk about it like a "bug" because don't saw first how wind works in CloD, well, be happy!

Out of this NOW stupid discussion.

There is no need to go out Lobi, you're posting valid arguments, is just that there are others that believe different.

IMO Tuckie centered the question very well in this post

Everybody on the same page now?

We are, but the boring naysayers will never leave page 1... :cool:

We need tweaks in taxiing, in smoke and windsock animations, etc. Things already know by MG as Tuckie said.

As we need tweaks in FMs, in DM, in graphics, sound... The initial question was answered: why does my spit spins around before engine start. No need to more discussion.

If ACE put around +40m/s wind speed in FMB and watch the Spitfire goes away like a kite, he will understand how funny is read his writing all this numbers... Because the first thing I do to test winds was try some +100km/h winds... Not so much weight in these Spits, maybe - MAYBE... :-D But not "so wrong" to me... Maybe just a little bit more friction, because planes don't "takeoff" in winds bellow stall speed... ;)

100km/h winds test in planes without brakes and engines idle:

[youtube]9xC_7CuUbQU[/youtube]

Fun with maximum CloD wind:

[youtube]X2vAn6z5f-w[/youtube]

... and we don't have yeat wind sound, so the spinning is strange, because we can't know if we have wind blowing or not... But, again, I don't see anything so wrong... Maybe it's because is CloD... If it's RoF people will be amazed with wind acting over aircrafts... Freud can explain!!!

P.S. This graphics engine is really crap... Look at the shadows cast by smoke blowed in the wind... LOL! I love this "bugged" sim!

Yes we have windsocks, we know that, but do they work, Ive not seen a windsock blowing whilst my spit is spinning around. Now take a chill pill big boy.

Unbelievable...

The bottom line is that this spinning behaviour just isn't right. I have never seen a real or virtual light aircraft start spinning with it's engine off in the way it sometimes happens in CoD. Even if (and I'm not saying it is) it is the wind or the incline or whatever, it just isn't right that you would climb into an aircraft that is spinning. Total immersion killer. If this was happening in reality (for whatever reason) you would chock it, tie it down or have your crew hold the wings before you got in. The simple fact that a Spit, with engine off, should start spinning as if it is on a perfectly smooth motorized vehicle turntable is enough for me to say it is a bug. It is an inaccurate model of a real world situation.

PPP

Watch the video mate, they work.


Pretty much this, thanks for saving me the time to type it all over again.

Is it possible that the ground friction as relates to aircraft weight needs some tweaking? Very possibly so.

The basic premise of this behaviour however is just like it should be. Try the cross country mission with a fully loaded blenheim (doesn't spin until you start the engines, then it spins due to prop effects), then try it witha Tiger Moth (turns to the right with the engine off but stops once it's aligned with the wind).

Plus, if people don't know how to work their brakes it confuses them further. I'm not going to retype everything from scratch, there's a sticky FAQ on the front page explaining brakes and other controls ;-)

We've got tons of information collected by various people who spent their time testing instead of playing so that the rest can benefit from it and overcome the lacking documentation. Use that information already people :-P

Start with "brakes on" by default? ;)

I have an axis for my wheel brakes. I keep it in full brakes until start taxi. I don't have this "spinnig in idle with Spitfire bug"... Because I always start with brakes on.

If people want a "Chocks in" option, with animated ground crew to remove shocks, will be REALLY nice! But claim that it's a "bug" if you can't start game with brakes on... I don't know if it's right... I have my doubts...

To Tree, my fully working windsock and my non-spinning Tiger Moth with 0 m/s wind...

[youtube]ZKHwYtlKP9M[/youtube]

It's so "immersion killer" have winds acting... :|

PS: but RoF one is cooler:

[youtube]bzbGZA3SfnI[/youtube]

thx for making these windvideos , they made my day so far :D

We can enjoy a good flight SIM! :grin:

Someone can try flip a bus in a storm now? I had to go now! Wind acts in ground units too? :-P

Didn't know you could do this. Is that an option in game? Will try that as a quick fix - thanks.

However, my point is that even if in theory the aircraft should be moving because of wind or incline, it just feels wrong. The smooth bumpless/jerkless movement seems wrong, the lack of airframe/ground noise seems incongruous and the lack of wind noise and visual clues that it is windy or slopey doesn't fit with the movement. In addition to all that, IMHO, a Spit weighing 3 tonnes just shouldn't move like it does, with engine off, on what looks like flat ground on what looks like a decent weather day in a sheltered blast pen. This is why I conclude that something isn't right with this part of the game. Just my HO, of course.

PPP

Your right something is wrong but this patch should change that.

The first step is wind SOUND. We need that. Second, more wind CLUES, like windsocks, etc. We have animated trees and grass, I'll test this... I really don't know how a Spitfire with tailwheel unlocked and brakes off handle medium wind. Let's wait for next patch and see if we at least have wind sound. Will be nice! ;-)

Dude a spitfire is a fairly heavy aircraft... not a kite.

It should be fairly easy to get some qualified answers from experienced pilots that still fly these planes today.

15meter/sec is actually fast but I'd say it's half of what I'd expect to cause such a strong rotation. At 5m/s a plane shouldn't turn like that at all I feel.
Here's a little calculator to translate the values: http://www.unitarium.com/speed

I'd just ask the pilots of vintage planes though, anyone has got some contacts? It's the easiest and most reliable way to fix this. Eventually it can even be tested at lower wind speeds.

Dude, try to spawn with BRAKES ON. The problem is just in there... I can taxi/takeoff and land with + 100km/h in a Spitifire in CloD, wind is really ok.

The problem is spawn with brakes off, tailwheel unlocked... It's a sim... We just need a option to spawn always with "chocks in" or with DEFAULT "brakes on".

If you spawn without "brakes on", the sim will understand that your aircraft spawn in world like "Pluft! I'm here from Wonderland!". I'll make a short video to explain... Just a moment! :)

EDIT: look at this video. I started with brakes on (i assign an axis to brakes):

[youtube]iS1FmGZpZbk[/youtube]

As you can see, all ok and REALLY cool to fly in strong wind!!! The problem is that we don't have the option (must be default, maybe) to start really parked with full brakes applied. The way it's now, if you spawn without brakes on, the sim understand that your aircraft spawns in the world with wind acting over it and AFTER that the friction with ground will happens... It's like the plane starts in the air... so, all the inertia is against your aircraft... But you can solve that just spawning with brakes on... I don't believe that is anything wrong with friction or weight of planes, just the fact that we sometimes spawn without brakes on - and in missions with stronger wind, we noticed this more. Simple to solve in a patch (spawn ALWAYS with brakes on/really parked aircraft) or by user side:

- Spawn with brakes on!

Not so big deal. No need to hear a lot of "it's a bug" or people doing a lot of calculations and elaborated theories... What I know is that now a lot of people can enjoy the dynamic wind feature in CloD - really nice modeled, I must say. But SpeedTree maybe must have "wind speed related" animations... will be great! It's possible?

But keep this in mind by now:

SPAWN WITH BRAKES ON!!!!

:)

It's not a problem for me dude, but it's a bug.

Agreed... that aint no wind

Yes, it's a bug "dude"...

Ilya, you are plain right about "community communications" matters... :-P

I give up! :cool:

No, it's a bug. :rolleyes:

For people who can't fly in a flight sim, wind acting is a bug.

Go fly Wings of Prey, please.

Mate maybe you should 'give up' :)

Go n check out Sukhoi forums, there are also posts about it....

Erm....No

No need to do that. I know that we have problems with aircraft spawn in medium/high wind conditions without brakes applied. But I believe that I explain clearly what happens, with videos.

But people can't understand words or videos here. Just keep talking "bug" until 2012...

Be happy. JusT do me a favour: show me in this video where is your "bug"?!?!?!

[youtube]iS1FmGZpZbk[/youtube]

I never had this "bug" because I'm used to spawn ALWAYS with brakes on. I explain how to solve this issue, but again people like to be negative as hell here. And don't use 0.1% of the sim potential... A bunch of "gammers" claiming for a combat flight simulation...

Blackdog, sorry, but some here must go to... No, I'll meditate now... OHHHHHMMMMMM... Again:

SPAWN AIRCRAFT WITH BRAKES ON AND YOUR "BUG" GOES AWAY!!!!

this spwan with brakes is a workaround like deleting trees to avoid loosing sound in MP. The influence of the wind is too strong, sure it shoud have some.
But how ever you call it, WIP or whatever - in general term its a mistake/error/failure/bug to be edited.......

So you agree it's a bug and you have found a work around, but it's still a bug or would you say the no sound problem and trees off work around is not a bug either...

The question for me is: At what point of ground wind speed does it require a pilot of a Spitfire to ensure that brakes are applied at spawning? It would be great if when spawning the parking brakes and/or chocks would be already engaged (as I see IRL) and had to be commanded to be released/removed. The commands are there in the sim already. Again, as has been said a couple of times in this thread, there seems to be (in the opinion of many flyers) that the aircraft swings very easily at low wind speed. The question is: would the devs pls evaluate the user concerns in this area.

ps. The art of an argument is debating the issues - not to personalize it by attacking the person/group making their argument. As soon as this happens, you have lost the argument regardless of how precise your information is. If either side has failed to convince the other of their point of view - then turn it over to mediation. In this case the devs. (If they have the time!!)

I think it is time to put this thread to bed!

No, it isn't. If people spend some time trying to UDERSTAND things instead than "it's a bug! fix it!", you guys will undestand that the problem is in spawn logic, not "influence of the wind is too strong"...

If you spawn properly parked and the sim "understand" that, all runs ok, no "loose spins", all normal.

But if you guys are happy to just say "it's a bug", well... what can I do? Just don't assume like a LOT OF PEOPLE that the problem is "wind acting too strong", "planes not heavy enough", "friction wrong"... Test things more, or just show some RESPECT for people who do that. I takeoff and landed at almost a HURRICANE! And made a video showing that... If wind was acting too strong my Spitfire never could do that.

Do something usefull for bugs discovery, people. I believe I helped some that not spawn with aircraft wiyh brakes on and some others to see how great dynamic wind works in CloD. Some others will remain with "i was right" crusade, and I don't give a $#$@ for them, because arguments aren't lost if we send to hell some boring person. They remain.

In the real world? I believe much more stronger winds than in CloD. And I explain why I believe that's happens: CloD spawn "unparked" aircrafts as if they are in air, not grounded.

The problem I saw so far now is that, not how wind act with aircrafts. If you start with brakes on and just after remove brakes, your Spitfire will not spin like crazy. The wind influence will be much like in "real world", even taxiing.

Just that i'm trying to say for a log time ago... And isn't so hard to understand, I guess. But people need to test to understand, and maybe discover some other issues regards spawn/wind, not this broken record... "it's a bug"...

Do some testing and maybe you can find other things. I'll try more after lunch!

Dude they are reworking the ground physics and the likes because they are currently BUGGED next your gonna tell me flying ships are a common sight in real life.