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well...i first flew il2 with demo release...now, if hack would be possible in 4.09...dunno if I would fly again...its just so f*ing sad....once greatest sim turned into arcade in "build the world for yourself" stile....

Just in case you weren't aware...its not compulsary to use the Sound Mod
(In fact as i'm enjoying the new 4.09 maps I'm not using it myself at the minute...)
So if you don't like what you see...I have a simple no-click solution...
Go to the "other website" and don't download any of the Mods available there...
Navigate to your IL2 1946 Folder (or whatever you cave it called in your installation) on your hard drive....and don't install anything new there
Bingo! You are now able to enjoy your IL2 experience exactly as you could before

very nice, but whats with the 6DOF hack? you think they didnt touch anything else? just sound? and yes, it is my problem when im forced to play with ppl who fly in the same type of plane but with different max speed, dive speed, rate of climbing, views...etc. got it?

Tvrdi:: Only if we choose to fly with cheaters in some "free" Online anonymous public servers.

Why are you posting this link?

ok..and why people must be interested in the fact that you wont play again? just dont play. But starting a new thread basically always for the same thing over and over again....bah.
Nothing personal m8. But if you dont like it anymore because of those misticals mods, just dont play thats all. It happened..try to live with. If you cant just uninstall and keep your hearth in peace.

so spits vs 109s, warclouds etc. are hack free? tnx for notice

ok...but we got already this http://forum.1cpublishing.eu/showthread.php?t=2300 where all can speak about their happiness or sadness of what happened....

It is quite interesting how a simple statement calls such a response from the hack - users.
Especially interesting is the reply from lexx :
Only if we choose to fly with cheaters in some "free" Online anonymous public servers.
you just have to read it slow to enjoy the subtility of this text ;-)
Lexx, do you really think that anybody chooses to fly with a cheater on an online - server?
If yes than you need a reality - check.
And for the sound-hack, i really don´t understand the hype. It is interesting for maybe
half a hour and then you find it shortcomings as you do not hear if your engine starts to
fall apart, you start to miss the whole acoustical feedback that is included in the original
sound. The sound-hack is after a while still boring for a full-real pilot. But it is useful when
you are watching tracks where you don´t need that feedback.

I'm new to IL-2, so I'm not sure if I'm missing some technical details and I don't know if this has been suggested in the past, but in my opinion the modding/hacking/cheating debate could have a solution just by implementing public key cryptography in any FM/DM critical software module.

This way:
- by digitally signing their own made modules 1C could certify the authenticity of those official pieces of software
- by signing mods submitted to 1C by third parties (amateur users included), Oleg could give its approval to the FM/DM of new or modified planes, making them equally "official"
- IL2 online server administrators could decide which planes are allowed just by checking the digital signatures (1C signature or the signature of other trusted sources) or, on the contrary, granting even not signed planes
- every group of people agreeing on a defined and publicly known set of digitally signed planes, even modded, could fly on properly set servers (just trusting the good faith of server administrators, of course!) without the fear of "cheats"
- modders would be recognized as a welcomed source of improvement and not as cheating promoters
- offline users would be able to fly everything they want on their machines, allowing even mods by signing them, and that's a good thing, IMHO

Of course, all the above ideas implies that the sim is intrinsecally designed for cryptography (crypto modules, proper modularity of the pieces of software, etc.) and I doubt that now Oleg would make such an investment in a product that's at the end of its life.
The other problem is that every mod possibly "made official" could mean ... one thing less to sell for 1C!
But I like the "open model" and I really would like to have such a ("controlled") thing in SoW/BoB, if not in IL-2.

Just my 2 cents ...

If you have followed the history of IL2 since the first demo in November 2001, you would know it isn't a problem at all.
A good number of the planes actually present in the sim + a number of the maps where done by third-party "moders" and integrated in the sim by M:1C..... for free (in patches and free addons).

This was exactly the model of IL2, until M:1C stated that the dev of the sim will be over, and that no more planes/cockpit/maps will ne accepted for integration (with different deadline for each).
Since the begining... every modder wanting to developp a nexw plane, and able to reach the quality standarts defined by M:1C saw their creation integrated in the sim.
Look at the last 4.09 patch/addon: all the maps were done by third-party team, and integrated in the game for free.... it's the last of numerous free patches/addon.

Now... ot go back on subject... I'm not sure (and even sure of the contrary) that digitall signatures will be enough to protect servers. Some real check (file check) has to be done to insure integrity.

Well, the way I look at it this, it all paves the way for BoB. Bob will have security and many other improvements, it is only a year or two now.

“Two years be sure!” Good lord not!

The problematic we see here today will almost certainly not exist in the next product as software evolves and lessons are learned.

Software may evolve and lessons may be learned but:
Cheaters will never learn and there is always somene who can´t keep a secret.
Some people may think that is pessimistic but i think it is realistic.
Let us hope we get a product that lasts as long as il2 and doesn´t "need improvement".

o..k....another thread about some guy crying about hacks

well stop playing the game..you felt you needed a thread about it? Well, good bye....i don't think anyone really cared. This post is in no way affecting anyone else but yourself...we will continue to play our modded up game.

Thread lock please.

And yet you cared enough to post. You're like a Hallmark card..... all warm and gushy. ;)

...lol...thats the first time i've heard anyone say that the soundmod is boring..what soundmod are you using?

Ok, and do you really think there weren't any cheaters before this soundmod?

Yes, the game is now modable...and cheaters exist or whatever. But how many pointless threads are there gonna be about it? What point are you trying to make? If it irritates you that bad just leave IL2 alone and wait for SOW to come out. << It really is that simple.

"Only a year or two"?
Well, add two years to the past year of modding and you'll have a lot of time of "void" after a somewhat premature death announcement about IL-2!
No wonder there are guys going on "independent" modding, with BoB still so far away and no chance of new official integrations in the current sim ...

In fact, my impression is that's a lot of trouble is coming just from timing here.
But honestly I can't say it's "bad timing": I could expect 1C team has a lot of work to do on BoB and no more people to dedicate at third parties add-on checking and certifying.
It's quite obvious they are aiming 99% at the new baby, it's their job.

I join my hopes for an even better sim, also with respect to these issues.
This one is so good that I'm absolutely sure I'll buy the next one the first day it will be on the shop shelves!

What would've been even better is for you to just not have said anything and let it be. I'd rather you be banned than this thread locked. lol You should've taken YOUR own advice, if this bothers you so much, just keep your mouth shut and move on. :)

...whatever man, i dont have time to sit on a forum all day and aruge with you..i do have a life. Whatever.

Well, as I've told before I don't know the internals of IL-2 and don't know if and how the suggestion is (realistically) appliable, but digitally signed executables and the likes are usually the way to go to assure file (executable or not) integrity and authenticity.
It seems to me the main problem lies in the fact that servers are out of control by online gamers, so they have to "trust" server administrators, and gamers PCs are out of central server control (not knowing how the tasks are assigned to servers and clients I have no idea about which part is the most critical).
In fact, in theory the "other side" could be even a fully "cloned" IL-2 server or client, without a single line of Oleg's code, just behaving the same way (except for cheats ... ;))!

In any case a direct integrity checking of the other side isn't possible, so you would have to rely on some form of secure remote checking, encrypted exchange of authentication messages between signed game modules and the like.
I'm not an expert but I suppose Oleg and his guys are skilled and smart enough to face also these issues, at least for BoB (and also to evaluate if it's worth the effort!).

my dear modded friend with the skull.....I wasnt crying....i dont care about sound mod...but the problem would be if they touched FM and DM..then if you dont see a problem....are you kiddin me? how can we fly with joy, with fun if we see someone warping in P11 blasting jets..WTF you think we should be quiet? crying? wer not crying....how can you be a true simmer if your using such hacks? what is the point in simming with hacks? it is way more pointless than playing in FP shooter with hacks....u got it? If I wanted hacks I would play Postal or some stupid FPS for kidz...they turned simulator in f arcade....is that clear?

i know..Your right. But my point is there is nothing we can do about it, and theres too many threads where people are saying the same thing. No its not fun, to play with hackers/cheaters...but we have no choice now. Just ignore them..and get admin to ban them from the server if there caught. Thats about all we can do until some type of new security is out.

Tvrdi:: That's not clear, since you don't have to use any hack/mods here, and if paranoid about being cheated, you can find people who don't use mods and play with them only.

Can be done only if you restrict your online experience to small coops and dogs with friend.

This not the most interesting way to play IL2 online. Much more interesting are online war (without several thousands participants), in which you don't chose your opponents... and to a lesser extent objective dogfight servers like "spit vs 109" and other... there also you don't chose who you play with.

Your "suggestion", isn't a solution for most of the onliners.

Like Tvrdi, I play this game online since the demo in November 2001. So I unterstand fully his concern.
Unlike him, I still continue to play online, in online wars like AW and others.... but only because I still hope in a solution with the final 4.09

Agreed!

And...Newbies to the sim, going Online for the first time, don't usually start out in private servers or squads (offliner guessing here). So the first thing they see is concern over mod cheats in anonymous public servers.

But, we get what we have paid Oleg for.

Four at least five years running, the Offline and many Online players have asked Oleg for deeper customization options and modding to some degree or another -- the singleplayer/server option of using functional trim controls for example -- and were accused by hostile behaving anonymous public server gamers of the diabolical crime "wanting to cheat online."

Rather than joining these Offline and Online play customers and helping them convince Oleg to offer OFFICIAL "approved" 1C:Maddox options/modding ability that Oleg would have kept out of the anonymous public servers (say, a Patch with CRT=2.5), we trashed these people at the western publisher's game forum, all while the Offliners asking for these features were paying for our "free" cheat free anonymous public server gameplay.

Now, since these Offline and Online play customers are today going somewhere other than Oleg for their gameplay options and modding, we are getting exactly what we asked for -- and paid for. We had our chance to help Oleg's other customers, but instead we acted like tightwad snotty little computer gamers and we blew it.

If we all are really LUCKY, Oleg will fix the hack hole in 4.09 for the anonymous public server players, while leaving modding open for the other players.

What are you talking about?

Every player (whithout distinction Offliner/Onliner) paid for the sim, and it was clear from the start that one of the offered feature was a "cheat free" strong online capability whith limited (but real) modding capabilities.... that was clear during the last 6 years, and every player who bought the sim got what was promised.
During all these time, modding was possible. freely for skins, missions, campaign... and many other things. And under control of M:1C for new planes/cockpits/vehicle/ships/ objects/maps.
The choice of limitted "free" modding capability can be discussed. It was a dev choice that can be criticized, and we allready know that for SoW:BoB the choice will be different (the limit between possible "free modding" and modding under M:1C control will be placed differently and probably satisfy more "free" modders"). But as it was, it worked pretty well during the last 6 years, as can bee seen with a player community still very strong and active... something very uncommon in computer games.
... So probably the dev choice, even if not perfect... wasn't so bad afterall...

Now... nobody paid Qtim to develop the tools that now everybody can use, either to mod "freely" (without any control from M:1C), or.... to cheat.

So yes, the situation is different. With Qtim tools, free modding is available to everybody... and that's not going to change. It's a fact. This is not what we paid for, but this is what we have, and what we have to deal with if we want to continue to play.

I'm not whining against modders/hackers or worse insulting them (some do, and like to flame... which is totally useless and don't help anybody)... and many onliners don't do also... they know it's something they will have now to deal with.
BUT... they do have some legitimated concern about integrity of the online play. It's plain normal they speak about their concern on appropriate forums.
Having peoples bashing them, calling for thread to be locked and so on, don't help more than "hack whining" and insults.

1++

Dunno if this has any bearing here but I tried the Mod for a short time and all of it's many facets of fancy extras, Now in wartime pilots did modify their planes, they did put rearview mirrors on planes that didn't have them. They may have even modified or tweaked performance, but I digress. The truth is the Mods really are hacks and one can use them to gain an unfair advantage over other more responsible fair playing aviators even without changing FM/DM and the server side Check Runtime=2 is so easy to get around that most people probably aren't aware of how it's being done. Now that I know I won't use the Mods, as far as Offline play they may have a certain appeal but we aren't worried about that we want to be sure that our online experience is safe from hacking and cheating. The only way is to insure that joining programs don't circumvent the server protections that are intended to compare files and that ip's of people who join who can be determined to not have a Normal version of the game can be kicked from the server. This is going to take the work of smarter people than me who are aware of which I speak and get those joining programs to patch up the holes in them and a server side check which works no matter what OS one is using and only discriminates against Cheating and Hacked programs. The constant Bickering changes nothing, The arbitrary Goodbye Cruel Forum is getting real old and if your half as smart as you think you are when you think you have a solution and know how to Hack for good and not for Winning only for yourself then Dammit Do Something about it!

not correct. the soundmod hack has opened up all the FM/DM/WM aspect of the game as well, and those hacks can be used on any full real online server like zeke vs wildcat, warclouds, spits vs 109 etc

a recent thread here proved this conclusively (http://forum.1cpublishing.eu/showthread.php?t=2396) , reading the last 10 pages probably sums it up.


it is not for you or the hack crowd to decide how other legitimate il2 users should now use the il2 sim online, just because you personally choose to fly the sim offline.

a large part of the il2 community mainly used the open full real servers (HL or online war campaigns), this is now no longer a fair environment. since you personally dont seem to have a solution to resolve this problem, dont belittle this issue here and pretend this problem doesnt exist.

the chances are small that oleg will spend the time to close the hack hole because he is only working with a small group of programmers.

if oleg does choose to try and close it, this means less time will be spent by his programmer to do something else. are you prepared for example to loose the me-110 as a flyable plane in BoB, or how about we remove the dynamic campaign and just settle for scripted static missions, etc... with olegs limited resources it is an "either/or" situation, not "both/and". just make sure that you come back here when BoB is released so that we can direct any BoB bug complaints at you personally.

LEXX (to Rama):: Zapatista:: http://i35.photobucket.com/albums/d1...eys/thumbs.gif You are learning my friend. It's your decision to play with strangers in anonymous public servers.

Great. http://i35.photobucket.com/albums/d1...kopfpatsch.gif That was supposed to be LEXX (to Tvrdi) QuoteNotQuote::

Sorry Rama/Tvrdi

no lexx, you are holding the donkey by the wrong end and dont seem to notice why your hand is warm

the il2 game is designed specifically to be able to play it online with people from around the world in a fair environment, were everybody uses the same aircraft specifications. that is the original feature we paid for when we purchased the game in the store.

so when you now play with yourself offline using your hacked version, none of the legitimate users care what you are doing, but trying to impose that same vandalized version on legitimate online users ruins their game.

simple aint it, i thought you had already understood that a couple of weeks ago.

FYI, I wont quit. I refuse. Ill fly with you guys...personaly I pitty every person who cheats in this simulator.

There is a solution to hold cheaters back.

We have an example of similar problem, arised in spacesim Freelancer (2003 year game, same year as Forgotten Battles out ;) ), which now have community similar to Il-2, more RPG oriented though. There are many Freelancer servers online now, some of them with ~100 ppl online in prime time.
http://www.freelancerserver.de/topservers.htm

There are many mods was made for Freelancer, some of them just cheats and some added great content, to avoid mod-abuse there was implemented anticheat system -- FLCD, made by independent devs -- http://www.flcd.de.vu/ -- which monitor consistency of Il-2 during play.

If someone will make similar anti-cheat system for Il-2, to sort out cheats and "wrong" mods (obviously, Il-2 development will continue with help modders of course) this would be great!

We have had 2 soundmod threads,both now thankfully locked by the moderator, so now everyone is going to move into this thread and start it up all over again?

People, enough already. What`s done is done and no talk will help with the issue. What`s point of taking a swings at each other? Almost seems that not the fact of cracking IL2 files fraggin community.. It`s the community fragging itself with attitudes..

Hey Ivan, just business as usual. When has this community NOT been at each other's throats over something?

http://forums.ubi.com/eve/forums/a/t...3/m/1611089326

Much progress has been made since I made that original post.

LMAO... the other two got a LOCK so it shits to this one... uhhh shifts.. I mean t to say shifts.... but all things considered.... LOL.. I'll leave the typo..

Cool beans Nate.. I am just getting online this morning or afternoon.. I'll check the progress of the SSMM (Server Side Mod Manager..?;)) in the PT thread @ UBI... I have been working the after hours and taking a serious beat down at work...

Hey no worries, just thought I'd give Lynx a heads-up.

Ibtl.....! :)

http://www.creativescreenwriting.com...y%20(300w).jpg




Ow come on, People made acquisations of cheating since 2001, now they only have something to point their finger at!

if you forgot, now they have true reason and evidence...btw I never talked about cheating before...

*sigh*

The other two threads have been locked, why continue this pointless argument here people?

Na85, best of luck with the server based utility :) Cant wait for this one :)

Me neither.... :)

I was saying in another thread that it'll be done in two weeks, be sure :D :P

Over and over...! Give it a rest; at least untill after the next patch pls!

This will be locked Monday, be sure :D

This whole thing has gone over the alloted 5 minute arguement. LOL

да пожалуйста.

Sure they had proof of the cheating back then, why do you think Oleg put in the check run time? It was because of the speed hacks.

No... that was because of a first hack of the SFS files (before QTim tools)
For the speed hack, Oleg's countermeasure was long before, with checkServerTimeSpeed, checkClientTimeSpeed, checkTimeSpeedDifference and checkTimeSpeedInterval.

What about a 4.09 "international" for all 1946 versions, with NO MORE a russian .exe and .sfs?

Problem are not the mods, but the russian version of the game.

евгений, *то собирается прибывать в другой звуковой аргумент и должно быть заперто прежде, чем это случается. нет больше этого аргумента пожалуйста.

право heh

WWWWWWWWWWWWWAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGHHH HHHHHHHHHHH!



DerAlte

I might think there are still people who are not happy with the situation as it is.

wouldn't everyone be happy with a server side mod filter though? seems like it would cater for everyone...

...what with horses and assorted other creatures having left the barn....what other choice would there be....for fair and square online play....this is the only game I have played online for any length of time. Now aside from squad and inter-squad activity I seldom fly online much....

I don't know if this is true or not but doesn't maddox supply this server software originally? I am agains't tampering with any original code maddox supplies. It agains't the EULA don't you know... :)

My project doesn't alter the software in any way, if that's what you're referring to.

You would think so... makes you wonder where some folks are really coming from .. at least it makes me wonder....

How do you do that?

How do I do what?

Surely for Server side verification of the files to ensure consistancy it will have to verify there are no changes to the files embedded in the sfs file?
Obviously it won't need to alter them...but presumably it will need to access them?
Good luck with your project by the way :)

if you're going to start with the unnecessary stirring get a bigger spoon.

Amidst the humour he does have a valid point...For as long as the Mod's have existed there has been the usual barrage of abuse and dissent from the cabal of competitive onliners who are opposed to this community modding effort...hundreds of posts devoted to describing it as Hacking, Criminal, Illegal, In breach of the EULA , vandalism of encrypted files that were never meant to be touched etc, etc...A cornerstone of their argument against it (Which lets be honest was just a smokescreen because they want to ensure ALL play is restricted to stock/vanilla IL2 1946) was that it was in breach of the EULA, in breach of intellectual propety laws etc etc...
Now all of a sudden the self same people are involved in development and testing of a programme that will need to access/verify these self same inviolate, untouchable files...Making them by their own logic guilty of the same offences...
Yet has there been the whisper of an apology? An admission that they were wrong? An acceptance that tinkering with the sim (Which is exactly what they are doing) can make the sim better?
Nope...you bet there hasn't!
To be honest I wish the effort well...because as I have said from the start, I believe users should be free to improve the game to maximise their enjoyment and immersion...
But I suggest that the people who have been anti-mod from the start either admit they were wrong...OR they can greet this server side verification programme with exactly the same wailing and gnashing of teeth..and the same accusations of vandalism and criminality.
Until then...the whiff of hypocrisy will hang in the air!

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Maybe the ubi forum had the right idea.Even the mod forum is locking these threads now.