One explanation and we will stop whining
 

I don't ask too much... but only one word from devs or mods just to calm everybody. If you (devs or mods) say "no more communication" than we will no more bother you guys asking news, but when Ilya said that he will "TRY" give us a weekly update and then in 3 weeks not a word, now I think we have the rights to be a little upset? I, and I think many other like me here, LOVE Cliffs of Dover. All this silence is really not nice to your customers Ilya.....

P.S.
well, I hope this thread will not be deleted too soon...

thank you

agree

plus 1

agree

Yes lets try again:

Agree

Luthier did say a few weeks ago that the next updates would take longer.

He also said the missing features that just missed the last patch would be released shortly...

he also said "trust me on this" about spitgirl.

come on Chivas, you really cant bring yourself to just agree?

agree

See his US Market welcome message:-
http://forum.1cpublishing.eu/showthread.php?t=24692

"4. We do not at this time have anyone doing community relations, which means we spend less time than we’d like to interacting with you, or rather, providing answers to your questions. We are up on these boards every day reading what you have to say, and it does often drive our design decisions and priorities."

They have no-one spending time on community relations at the moment. We know that's a bit of a slap in the face but that's what they are doing, spending all their time on dev work.

And yes, I think he's wrong not to say something about progress.

:!:

this answer my question... goodbye communication and news... bah...

I suppose you'd have to develop something this complex to understand there are always setbacks. We know the team is still working on the project and have plans to support it for many years. Patience is the key word here, but patience isn't the strong suit of the last few generations.

The answer to the One Question will only bring up more questions;

so the One explanation will bring more whines / requests for additional explanations


but I agree for the "I got a fever, and the only prescription is more communication" instead of beatie boys ill communication

It is not about patience, it's about respect in my opinion. Ok, you are not forced to answer to all questions, but when hundreds of people are here every day waiting for a patch, or a small word from a developer that says "no news today guys, we are working hard!!!", I don't think you spend too much time to write this? ah... can i suggest to copy this sentence and save somewhere so luthier can just copy and paste in a post every week? 30 seconds of his time in a week is too much?

He only said he would try.

yeah right I forgot the word TRY :rolleyes:
EDITED

Well at the age of 40 I'm slowing growing tired of forking over money for games / sims that are unfinished.

There's only so much the paying public should have to put up with. I think it's time the situation was turned around. How about we pay for a product that is actually finished for a change? As I've said before in the deleted thread that was started by Nearmis, I can live with bugs, as I too am a developer (business apps), but how about actually delivering what was promised?

Believe me, customers grow very tired very quickly when you say the application will do one thing, but doesn't deliver as expected after release day.

So now you have had the explanation will you all stop whining about communication & updates?

Somehow i doubt you will 'agree' to keeping your word. :rolleyes:

I agree with you, and I do your same job :grin:

Why you doubt? don't worry... after the luthier's words I'll spend less time in this forum waiting for a patch or a news, like many others I think....

Okay guys let's get back on track.
I honestly believe if Luthier was authorised to respond he would have. We have tarred and feathered him enough. He has literally become the whipping boy for failing to deliver on a promise. Oleg made the promises remember, not Luthier.
So let's all stand back and look at the facts.
The current US version is 100 times better than the initial release version.
They are working on fixes, this we know.
Luthier obviously as the developer cannot comment on the game and his message has been clearly santitised by the Ubisoft boffins.
So we can scream and moan or just wait. I am sure an update is near, not this week or the next but soon.

:grin::grin::grin:
Now I am off to go and fly RoF till things get better;)

But I will be back :grin::grin::grin:

Well because they didn't use the word 'try' they've actually made a promise to us that they will stop whining and moaning. This is a very positive day for the community as a whole!

Now hopefully we can go back to the main point of the forum which helping each other get the most from the simulation.

Cheers to all!

Interesting, very interesting. What a woody, preformulated statement we have here. OK its business, we ask, they deliver, we react, its not our friends or relatives. Greetz, Allons!

I'm trying to look at this from both sides.

As a customer who would like the game fixed up to 100%, I feel the community is very much entitled to regular feedback regarding this sim. It's got some big issues and few are totally happy with it, so as a customer I think it's only fair that Luthier or someone else redoubles their efforts regarding communication since most people have been begging for it.
In the light of the buggy release I think that is only fair.

Having said that, I do feel that 1c themselves, if they gave a rat's about their customers, could hire a permanent PR guy to pick up the slack. They are a huge firm and MG has just thirteen overworked employees.
So what is 1c's excuse??
As I said before, we are beating the wrong guys over the head.

Looking at it from Luthier's point of view, he was probably thrust into a situation he had no control over (early release) and it was made even worse with Oleg leaving. So he is carrying the whole can now.

Upon release, I seem to remember him posting fairly regularly, and showing a good sense of humour. Aside from patch news, he posted two lengthly posts, one about some imposter that was impersonating him, and another about a former employee who had some not so nice things to say about the game. Then there was the VE Day post too. It shows that he was on the forums, checking things out and talking to us, and not neccessarily only about the patches.

But after receiving torrents of abuse, and let's be clear I am sure we only see a small snippet of it publically on these boards, I sense that the friendliness isn't there anymore. If he's fed up, I can't really blame him. C'mon fellas, some of the abuse has been personal and slanderous and strictly out of order. You know it has.

The problem is, no matter what he says or does, the whinging will not stop. If he posts today about a patch, there will be a ton of questions and even if he answers them, there will be a ton more. If he somehow answers those, there will still be a ton more.
Things he says will be used against him at a later date, so it's a no-win situation really. Hell, maybe the guy has been in meetings all week with 1c bigwigs, we don't know.

Let's see what the next few days bring.

Well it wasnt much but as you say its business and it was a lot better than you would get from your mobile phone or cable company when the signal goes out or something similar happens.

I'm feeling a little dissapointed as I was hoping for a possible patch today and it wouldnt have taken much to have given us a small update on progress, but really the news that they are still in business with plans for patches etc still on the table, makes me feel a little better, I still cant play often with the sound bug, but Im happy with the thought that all going well, we are one day going to have a pretty good sim on our hands, just hope that day arrives soon.

It took Luthier longer to post his welcome message than it would have to post a update.

Those are fair points Rattlehead but look at it this way. If Luthier feels he doesn't want to take part in these exchanges and wants to ignore those nasties - which is easy enough - all he has to do is satisfy his customers with a weekly Locked progress thread (locked, like the USA welcome message is) and having told us what is happening, leave us to support, denigrate whinge, whine or praise him in other threads.

I think a major mistake has been not using Locked threads for announcements. He just gets dumped on, drowning his post and turning the thread into a cat fight.

I don't expect him to get involved in the rows and opinions etc. I just want him to tell me, a paid up customer, what is happening to fix my faulty goods and approximately when I can expect the major fixes like the MP sound bug, trees, SLi (?) etc., to be ready. If I don't like what I hear and he can't change it then that's my tough luck but at least I'll know the current situation.

Tommy, all we have been told is....

"Dont expect any communication and there is no update"

+1

But if for some reason they have to breach the promise, maybe at least they are more flexible about their expectations too :D.

Yes, you have a right to be upset.

No, you can`t spam multiple threads to let others know about it.

No, Luthier dropping here and giving you some of his input won`t stop you moaning.

Soooooo...

Don`t?

Yes, feel free to kill this game.
Just don`t go on wishing they`ll be another one like this one.


I know one thing : customers are like children. And when you treat`em like children, they start to realise how foolish they look.

NEWSFLASH : this game is nothing like mobile phone or cable company.

Thank you.

The same attitude I wish others would present.
Good things come to those who wait!

"Good things come to those who wait!"

Luthier? Is it you? with some alter-ego?

Indeed, I fully agree, I think we should all just relax a bit. A patch is comming sooner or later. Either there's no news because patch/news are imminent, either it will take a bit longer because they're just hard at work lately. Experience tells that when there's no news for quite some time means that when there will finally be news, it's going to have been worth the wait.

There are other things in life too.

~S~

And other flight SIMS too... :cool:

Just leave and play those other sims until CoD is fixed.
You don't have to get upset then and the other readers might see something new.

I hope you haven't got any type of business and run it on those principles...if you have and are successful then you need a medal..a big one

this is not a your problem, and you are not a mod. I bought a thing that don't work as promised, so I CAN ASK FOR WHAT I PAID, IT IS MY RIGHT, clear? If you are happy with this.. go ahead.. not me thanks... and i'm not like many others, hiding the head in the sand. I'm not making any other thread asking news or patch, but i'll answer every post that is refered to that.

Having been a Lock On / FSX player for the best part of 5 years, I have some experience with community forums for both the main games and add-ons providers.

Without doubt this forum has the biggest collection of impatient, childish whiners of the lot. The Devs have explained they are unable to devote resources to community relations at the moment and are working on fixes for the remaining problems, so why not pipe down and play something else while you're waiting.

Or buy a new rig like I did.

what about you giving me my money back, and let me use them while you are fixing this game to a state worthing the money you've asked for it?!!


we were not demanding community relations, but just ONE lausy WEEKLY post to update us on the situation, something which can't take you more than one person's half an hour, maybe one hour at most, to write.

Come again, please.
What do you want?
What is your problem?

just read what i've said, it's plain english, you know..

Speak for yourself, it's been proven time and time again that no matter what is said some will continue to whine.

First off, if I was a mod, none of the "boohoo my life is broken" posts would exist.

Second, I assure you that whining here will not get your money back. You need to contact the ratail store in which you bought it or Steam and demand a refund. This is not the place for it.
If you`re so firm on insisting on your customer rights than again, I suggest you contact your local customer rights department and report a broken 30$ video game. Or maybe you`re not doing it because you KNOW that you would only humiliate yourself.

And as they have told you before, and I've just repeated for you, they don't have the resources to do that at the moment, so why not try and show a bit of patience, or get a refund from your vendor if you can't be patient.

You may think you know more about what it takes to update the community than the Devs, or what resources they have to spare, but for the rest of us who come here to get infor or tips from either the devs or other users, listening to these constant whinges about "where's my update", as if it's an obligation of the Devs, is bloody annoying.

So if you have a problem, why not PM Luthier or one of the other devs as your public moans are not improving the situation, but are getting on others' nerves.

what resourcesa re you talking about? Luthier is not a programmer, he is a project manager, he's not working on coding, or texturing, or anything else.

believe me, he HAS enough time to make a post once a week.

This has got to be the silliest thread of them all. The idea that you people would stop whining is utterly absurd. You whine when Luthier responds because you don't like what he tells you. You whine when he doesn't respond because you don't like that he isn't giving you something to whine about. Seriously, some of you really need to get a life.

He did not respond to anything... He just wrote silly welcome message to US customers... He didn't forget to stress out how successful is this sim (best selling on Steam - LOL!) and how they will continue to "improve" it, because they are not quitters... Is this something new? Except the info about bestselling game? :grin:

So one thing is RESPONDING to actual questions and second is writing some useless post, which nobody really wants and needs...

How do you know? With a small design-team, he might actually have to work on coding etc. Besides, being a project-manager isn't some cushy laidback affair. Not when you're dealing with a few hundred thousand lines of code etc.

Again, how do you know?

You seem to read well, but you don`t understand any of it.:eek:

Opitz, what part of "you whine when he responds and you whine when he doesn't respond" did you fail to understand?

Try elaborate on this topic...

carguy, I'm not asking my money back, I want CoD to be functional like they promised. The only thing they could do, because it was their fault to release an unfinished software, was to give us some news. Till luthier posted the progress i never said something wrong (find me a post I made that I complain of cod older than 1 week). It's not your business what I do with my money, this is a public forum and I can write, respectfully to the rules, what I want. If you don't like my posts you can just avoid to read it, or add me to your ignore list. It's easy.... no need also to keep answer at all my messages, I'm not talking or asking something to you.

Regardless if you post "at" me. Whining doesn`t suit anyone here and will be answered to whether you like it or not.

If you want this sim to work , you will have to wait some more. I know this is hard to get over but the sooner you get it the faster you will see any patches.

Just as you will have to get used to people posting criticism of COD, and taking no notice of your verbal diarrhea.

You really have no idea what a ....... you are :)

Lol a hypocritical post

And herein lies the problem. Why should any of your 'demands' be satisfied pray tell? you know these guys personally I take it, you certainly seem to think that you know exactly what duties Luthiers job involves. Or maybe you work for UBIsoft or even 1C?

Quite honestly if the thread title bore any shred of truth all you victims of virtual rights abuses would probably have received an answer by now, but by continuing with the feet stamping and immature ranting you are highlighting the fact that none of you 'deserve' the slightest bit of communication. Its so irritating I'm starting to hope that they don't ever fix it, just imagining the sore expressions on your faces is keeping me amused. Every single thread wether it starts off humerous, critical or whatever is being continuously trolled be a minority of users who in my forum would be banned, its not about human rights, its about it being my forum and my rules. Maybe you feel that would be wrong and unfair ? good. I would be pleased to know I had caused such poorly mannered people some discomfort, would feel like I'd been doing my part. The moderators here are truly very tolerant to let this all go on, I applaud them for I personally would be unable to be so. They are truly calmer and more objective people than me - I guess thats why they are moderators.

Just to emphasise my point about the falsity of OP statement, Luthier posted an update with the American release and did the level of the wailing even dip for a moment? No. Thankfully he had the foresight to lock that thread. I've been ignoring for a week or so in the vain hope that the vitriol dies down but no. Well surprised is something i am not. Go ahead then tear up my post, stamp your feet, gnash your teeth and try to insult and belittle me in the most intelligent way you can. :-P

http://www.cookipedia.co.uk/wiki/ima...old_cheese.jpg

I Completely agree.

if you want to call the "we're working" an update, please, be my guest.

in the mean time we, all of the not-challenged ones who figured that out right from the post-launch day, need an actual update regarding the state of the patch work.

+1 well said.

Every whiner on this board should read this post until they fully comprehend it. Anyone who whines after reading it should be banned for life.

signing my name right here.
lol

Who cares what you need? You can be glad for what you get.
You've paid for a license to install and play the game as it is. Nothing more.
There's nothing even saying that there should be an official forum for the game.
You're whining for something that is given freely by the developer, they have no obligation what so ever to tell us anything.
Stop acting like a spoiled kid, things will work out.

One might say that wasnt an update Sammi.. that was an introduction though some would say poor to the new market that have just injected a load of cash into this title..so imo why would the wailing of 'please an update on progress' stop if they didnt have one...my 2 cents

Also as for him locking the thread...i think i know why too though i can probably guess its not for the same reasons you see

you sir, are an idiot, pardon my french.

I have bought a product, which has to meet the characteristics presented and advertised based on which I've made the judgement to buy this product. and therefore it is my right to demand to have them implemented/fixed/working as advertised, or demand my money back and even demand compensations for false-advertising via a law suit.

in respect and trust for MG and our common past, I've chose just to demand a single weekly update post regarding the situation of the work on game fixes.

if you fail to comprehend this simple english statement, just re-read please the first sentence of this post.

Why don`t you just stop the insults and add him to your ignore list.

Everything what you wrote is based on wrong assumption - Luthier's so called update post...

First of all, the most important FACT(!!) - he did not post any "update" related to any known bug or defects. Or did he? Who is the master here? You, carguy or David Haywarth or any other uncritical fanboys? Or is it Luthier? Or is it angry, ignored CUSTOMERS? What is moving people like you or carguy to react to what they hate - whinning? Why they dont just dont ignore it, as so called "whinners" are ignored by Luthier?

We have in czech language a nice old saying - "do the devil good and he will pay you with hell" - you can be feeling better that on this forum is no more whinning threads, but still you will have a bugfest game installed on your PC. And you can just uninstall it and wait. Or leave it and play other games. Because you don't feel you are the guy who can put some stress on them. You should be demanding. Not just robbed and silenced like stupid sheep.

.

Well, You just make me feel that I ought to buy the game... NOT.

I am cautious, so I let others go first. Now I'm glad I did, and I'm waiting in hope for game to be fixed. Ban me and I'm gone, and any chance of my money with me.

I want to thank all the "whiners" on this board for their fair warnings :), and the anti-whining-nazis can just "go away" :-P.

By all means, file a lawsuit. Demand your money back. Just stop your bloody whining.

Who did not deliver his part of the agreement between customer and developer?

I don't care. Go to court if you think you were cheated.

Just ignore him, hypocrite...

Why should I - the best place to warn other people how they will be treated after they pay, is HERE...

I can understand that logic...

Tell me, im guessing that you have been following these forums and checking on progress...whats your take on it considering you havent purchased it yet...

You know about the problems and issues, you also know about the communication from the Devs...would an update on progress for those problems you already know about make it easier for you to buy the game or would you still be of the opinion you are now?

In other words, you are just a troll. I look forward to your next banning.

no I am not a troll... And you are reported now!

because, guess what?!! I am working as project-manager in game developement busines :)

and even if you don't have that time in your working hours, you can give half an hour a week from your own and personal free time to post a little update for the guys who are paying you for what you are working on if you really give a damn.

If you think the devs did not, you are wrong. Otherwise you can prove it in court and get your money back. But you know you can not and that is why you whine here.

The devs delivered much more than many expected and much more than other company on the market in this segment. Maybe it is not enough for you but than it is your own mistake that you purchased the game. Take responsibility for your decisions or go to court if you feel cheated. There you will learn that you were not.

exactly
i don't beleive that is so difficult to find 10 minutes for some info
i work one day to give those money for this game

What? OK, one example - Dynamic weather... one more - engine supporting thousands planes over Channel... hmmm... sounds? hmmm... multicore CPU support? SLI? Hillarious... Are you kidding? Luthier confirmed by himself he knew, game had a serious flaws even before 1st release. But this did not stop him to sell the game like finished... He took all responsibilities for this. So what you talking about?

I am just trying to say that customers made their part of the agreement. They paid... Some even twice... or more...

And while that might work for you, it doesn't mean that Ilya or anyone else from the team has the time, strength or willpower to do so after the workday is done.

All in all, it's my personal view that this thread is filled with people that are so far off in their assumptions about how things should be done that it's laughable in the extreme. Hell, I haven't seen worse whining since I stopped playing Rift about a month after release.

Tell you one thing, though: In terms of hilarity, this thread delivers. Greatly.

End statement: Caveat Emptor. I ALWAYS have this in mind when picking up ANY software-product. Maybe others should as well.

They usually work 10-12 hours a day and sometimes more here in Russia. Overtime hours are not paid by a company usually. The legislation is poor in this respect.

I think this is one of reasons sim devs can make ends meet in Russia only. In any other country but China it would not be possible. I have seen a thread where employees of both 777 and DCS shared the same problem that the companies hardly meet ends even with low salaries and extra hours (and they charge per aircraft btw). I think CoD, RoF and DCS are the last complex sim series we see in our lifes. All others will be WoP style at best.

Even some ETA for next patch and there are happier people after that.

1week, 2week or month? Some info?

For about 2 minutes. Then they start whining again.

Updates don't mean much to me without patches, they're nice to read, but they're not important, and the feedback on the patches is important too. If all the negative feedback disappeared, but the people who usually gave that disappeared too, that would be a very bad sign in my view.

I'm probably very untypical, there are probably twenty people who buy games based on the picture on the front of the packet for every one like me that reads the back.

I was really enthusiastic until the first screenshot of the unfenced railways level on the land, that sounded a very wrong note to me, Russian railways may be that way still, in Britain they haven't been like that since long before WW1, never mind WW2.

I'd like to know why and how Oleg left, and how much code changed at that time, but I guess it will be at least 30 years until that comes out, if ever, and again that's not important, it's just me being nosy.

How is this is useful to anyone?

I live in Romania, is the same in here as in there: long not-paid extra hours. so what? I still have time to live, post in here, read, play games, watch movies, eat, sleep, make sex, get out with friends and tons of other normal things.

Sorry, mate but THIS is hillarious, indeed... What about ROF guys? They have no problem to answer many questions... Jason is writing there too... He was even writing on forum from E3, when there was problem with credit card payments... It is all about priorities... They were answering, writing even before very important patch, which WAS NOT a disaster like CLOD ones. This is just so poor excuses... Oh poor russian devs... Only they are working 10-12 hours a day...
Look... it is all about will and about having something to say/write.

My theory is quite simple - there is no news, so no "news update"...

They have new guy for sounds right? why not to make some simple update about his work? some samples or video inside game? just this... it is not so much, but people would appreciate it.

Yes, some will be happy to hear that. Others, however, will have at whoever posts such a message with damn near fanatical fervor for anything and everything, not to mention what happens when the company cannot meet the ETA.

Besides, people tend to conveniently forget the E, and only go for the TA and treat it as a solid date for when the patch will arrive. Hellfire and damnation will erupt if that date is pushed back even by a day.

let me correct that.. OMG there hasn't been an update for 12 days, 3 hours and 25 seconds.. how dare they, i think they have abandoned the game, they have taken our money and run away.. mummy where's my milk!

Why should I be the first to post something useful on this thread?

What about them? They don't provide updates on patches. Ask them when the next patch is coming and they ignore you.

Did I said so? Here is NO, I repeat to David, read it slowly, bull - NO - reply from any CLOD developers. On ROF forums many people from 777 or with very close connection are writing or responding on daily basis - and yes, they do speak english!

I am not giving here stupid examples or excuses why there is no communication between customers and developers. People just feel left behind. No interest. No nothing. And if something, it is BS...

I absolutely understand this change in mood here since last four weeks...

The straight up is that this sim is in an unacceptable state, even now, however many months it's been since release.

We can see by what is being 'fixed' that much of it wasn't even Beta - but Alpha code.

No matter what is said or who is 'responsible for PR' it's not going to change that what they are going to get is an earful from consumers who have been taken advantage of or otherwise screwed when they purchased new hardware for the sim - to find out that it'll probably be a year before it works properly, and if they had waited until it did they would have a much more powerful system when the sim was ready.

While that earful is justified it doesn't exactly achieve anything in the short term - it's too late for whoever is responsible at UBI or within the production team to fix the stupid decision, but maybe, just maybe they'll learn (unless they're at UBI - no bloody clue to be had about doing the right thing by consumers).

That is EXACTLY what you are asking for. You want Luthier to hold your hand while they work on updates. Well, despite your claims, 777 does nothing of the sort. You get the update when it is ready, and they don't hold your hand while you wait for it.

Exactly. That is why we will not get any updates or ETA.

It starts with "Give us a word to make us happy and we stop whining"...

...then "You could spend at least 30 min a week to make small update"

...continues "You call this an update, you must be kidding"

And never ends:
"OK, this is some good news but give us ETA. You have to!"

"Why would it take so long!!! U R kidding. Hire more professional programmers!"

"Why they can not meet ETA?!! They do not show any respect!"

"OK it is out. Do you call this a patch??? What took you so long?!!!"

"You patched the wrong things in the wrong way in the wrong time! Learn to set priorities right! We need another patch to patch the patch that patched the patch asap."

"Why can not you to force UBI to finance an international community manager?!!!"

Spoiled kids behavior.

The only possible way for the devs to deal with it is to stop posting anything. We will witness this.

One other way to deal with it, and that's absolutely ruthless moderation of the boards. Not necessarily a good thing, though...

That is what 777 does. They need to do the same thing here.

I think you are exaggerating, Ataros mate.

Most of us perfectly understand that accurate ETA are not posible.

What most of us want is this:

- a weekely update regarding what's in the work, and the actual progress made
- when they figure out they are close to release a patch, and can give an ETA, just say it to us, together with the expected content for that patch

That would be all, and would mean we can continue with whatever we are doing (including programming a dynamic campaign and a functions library for the mission builders which was the thing I wanted to start, but instead I had to lose time digging through this mess on the forums), and come back each friday to hear the news, and when they can say a patch ETA, come back at that date to eventually get the patch.

Reasonable and simple!

100% wrong comparison. Jason represents 777 which is a RoF publisher. Or you can call them independent developer. They get the money for communication from sales. This is their job to communicate.

UBI is CoD publisher. It keeps the money for communication from sales. It is UBI job to communicate. 1C/MG does not get this part of money and this is why can not hire a communication manager. They provide support on these forums for free and as a goodwill. Your attitude does not encourage this goodwill much. You did not even bother to read this post explaining how it works or could not get it.