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SLI working
Luthier, please give us back the Use3Renders=1 command so that all of us with three monitors can enjoy some decent gaming!!!!!
For the shake of completion, Scavvenjahh posted a quick fix at http://airwarfare.com/sow/index.php?...ngs&Itemid=178 Although far away from being a real solution while dogfighting, it may be of help for some quiet flying hours where you can enjoy the surroundings :) And Eckhart posted an understandable way to make this work: Quote:
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post beta 14762
Giving some feedback on the SLI status after the beta 14762:
SLI works fine for me, using STL's solution: Quote:
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Interestingly enough, the fps depend on the level of utilisation %percent of the GPUs. Over sea I get the GPU utilisation% on both cards at 99% percent. Over ground there are variances but usually something between 65% - 75% would be a good mark. On the REPKA Server #islands (lot's of water) I have constantly 90-110fps, GPU utilisation at 85%-95%, GPU temp is at 85°C On the REPKA Server #Channel (simple ground set) I have constantly 70-80fps, GPU utilisation at 80%-90%, GPU temp is at 85°C On the REPKA Server #Channel (heavy ground set) I have 30-50fps, GPU utilisation at 60%-65%, GPU temp is lower The Black Death track seems to be very heavy, GPU Utilisation varies as the pictures below will show you: The biggest challenge was the GPUs temperatures, the first SLI setup brought the GPU temp to 92°C so I had to add an additional 120mm fan to push fresh air into the case and do some additional air flow optimisations which brought the temp at constant 99% GPU utilisation from 92°C down to 85°C You need to keep an eye on your GPU temp, I used to think the NV6800Ultras were hot but, this 90°C is scarry... Flying a mission (above water, bombers intercept) gives me a clear SLI advantage (almost double fps) :) The shadows seem to be the fps killer, removing the tick from the shadows has a dramatic increase in CPU utilisation% and fps performance :) Sorry for the big screens, this is my desktop and I did not want to manipulate the original quality of the pictures by making them smaller... on the far right you can see the GPU performance window. 3840x1024 desktop, 3072x1024 window (beta 14762) move sliders to the right to see the game and GPU graphs With SLI http://www.stoimenos.com/temp/CoD/Te...InoShadows.jpg Without SLI http://www.stoimenos.com/temp/CoD/Te...InoShadows.jpg settings http://www.stoimenos.com/temp/CoD/Te...InoShadows.jpg What is however very interesting is that I do not notice difference in fps performance on the Black Death between SLI and NO-SLI mode! I do not understand it and it makes me wonder. Anyhow, perfomance is good (SLI and no-SLI) and as long as shadows are off, I am very happy with it! :) 3840x1024 desktop, 3072x1024 window (beta 14762) move sliders to the right to see the game and GPU graphs With SLI http://www.stoimenos.com/temp/CoD/Te...kDeath_SLI.jpg Without SLI http://www.stoimenos.com/temp/CoD/Te...eath_noSLI.jpg settings http://www.stoimenos.com/temp/CoD/Te...kDeath_SLI.jpg The shadows seem to be the fps killer, removing the tick from the shadows has a dramatic increase in CPU utilisation% and fps performance :) 3840x1024 desktop, 3072x1024 window (beta 14762) move sliders to the right to see the game and GPU graphs With SLI http://www.stoimenos.com/temp/CoD/Te...InoShadows.jpg Without SLI http://www.stoimenos.com/temp/CoD/Te...InoShadows.jpg settings http://www.stoimenos.com/temp/CoD/Te...InoShadows.jpg The grass and roads do not seem to make a big difference after the Shadows are off 3840x1024 desktop, 3072x1024 window (beta 14762) move sliders to the right to see the game and GPU graphs With SLI http://www.stoimenos.com/temp/CoD/Te...dGrssRoads.jpg Without SLI http://www.stoimenos.com/temp/CoD/Te...dGrssRoads.jpg settings http://www.stoimenos.com/temp/CoD/Te...dGrssRoads.jpg As a side comment, I never had the "sound bug", I posted my sound at conf.ini in a different thread in the hope that it may help others. I also use the RAMDRIVE solution (6Gb RAMDRIVE), I liked it and got used to it, apparently it does not have any impacton performance but I mention it, just in case. Many thanks to Jimbob for his nice explanations: http://forum.1cpublishing.eu/showthread.php?t=20228 For me it looks smooth and the only thing I am waiting for is the 3monitors implementation like in the old IL2FB... And for those who want to understand more about the headaches of SLI, Flyby posted an excellent link: Quote:
~S~ |
Could be better with reduced size pictures.. :)
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Could you try flying online without RAMDRIVE please. I wonder if sound bag is related to heavy HDD activity. Could you check if you have the soundbug without RAMDRIVE? |
Yeah, I know GOZR but it is difficult to make 3840x pictures smaller :( the GPU monitor numbers will not be visible afterwards...
Ataros, just finished flying a couple of hours at the REPKA #3 server! Great fun, congrats to that team of 3 Bf109s nice group work! :) Without RAMDRIVE, sound was there, no problems at all. HOWEVER I noticed significant difference in performance: I got some 0,5sec stutters, happened at the most critical moment every time, dogfighting, mostly when a Bf109 was coming from high above at high speed and I turned my head to the sky to track it. I presume it is the speed that the system needs to load the textures of the new object. So definitively I will stick to my RAMDRIVE (especialy since I have a slow (normal) hard disk and no SSD). Personally, after this experience, I consider the money to add another 6Gb RAM (and make RAMDRIVE) better invested than money to spent on an SSD. I will post it at the RAMDRIVE thread, too. ~S~ |
Thanks for testing it :)
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SLI much improved now!
Thanks for posting this GRAthos :grin: |
Can you guys please confirm that you get flickering water textures with working SLI? I suffer from this phenomenon. Is it just me or do you guys have that too?
For mee the flickering water makes the game pretty much unplayable. Thanks! Winger |
flickering water textures ?
no flickering water textures here. What SLI configuration do you have, how much VRAM and what kind of settings? ~S~ |
I have 3x GTX 480 SLI and i tried to use the settings shown above ->
"Working SLI-Bits to edit with NVIDIA Inspector 1.9.5.5 Click at Profile Settings (besides the "Driver Version"), create Custom Profile and click "add application to current profile" to add launcher.exe. edit: SLI compatibility bits (DX10): 0x000000F5 NVIDIA predefined SLI mode on DirectX 10: SLI_PREREFINED_MODE_DX10_FORCE_AFR click on "Apply changes" " I am using the latest nvidia driver 275.50. sadly nothing seens to work. Winger |
Sorry, no idea with tripple SLI, one of my fellow pilots has quad-SLI (2x590) and has the same problem, it does not work...
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Thanks for your feedback. Winger |
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Yes, I believe this would be a good solution to be sure about it. AFTER you have tried the twin cards and the results are satisfactory, you can also put the three cards in and with the NVInspector change the profile a little bit more: I do not remember by heart but there is a parameter in the profile which defines how many GPUs should be used for rendering the DX10 game. Normaly it is default (auto) but you can change it to one, two, three or four ;) Good luck! |
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Winger EDIT: One more question. What fullscreen mode does one have to use. Real or pseudo? |
Hmm, no way. whatever i do i always have flickering water. Strage. guess there is no way but waiting for a driver with actual profile for the game.
Winger |
WINDOW mode!
(you saw my screenshots... ;) ) |
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Winger EDIT: No way. Doesnt work. Fullscreen off does only let me choose 1024 resolution and pseudo with your settings makes my screen go black and never come back:( |
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Winger |
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Put the maximum DESKTOP resolution you can for your monitor. (e.g. I have 3840x) Launch CoD and select the max window size the game allows you to have (it depends on the size of your desktop). Start the game, quick mission and fly Press Alt-TAB to get the mouse out of CoD Now pick a corner of the CoD window and stretch the window to the max you can have/want on your monitor. voilá ;) And if you close CoD later (without crashing launcher.exe) the game will keep the settings in the conf.ini and next time it will start like this. PS. You could have simply entered the settings straight into your conf.ini but I do not know how familiar you are with it so, the way I explained above is false-proof. ~S~ |
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Winger |
I dont get it... Biggest resolution offered when switching to windowed mode is 1024x768 i am running native 2560x1600 desktopresolution.
When i do that and pull the window bigger it just stretches the 1024x768 pixels. And SLI also doesnt seem to run proper. Winger |
OMG these are huge pictures took a long time for page to load hehe
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You mean you have a big desktop screen (2560x1600), the CoD window is only a small part of your screen (1024x768) but you can not resize the CoD window? (neither make it smaller, nor bigger) Can you at least move the CoD window around your screen (by dragging it from the top line, just like any normal window)? That is strange, it works fine for me. ~S~ |
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Winger |
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Never heard of this but is good because it will give me a clue about the Conf.ini settings of CoD. Please go to your directory (I hope Win7-64) C:\Users\User\Documents\1C SoftClub\il-2 sturmovik cliffs of dover Make a backup copy of your conf.ini file Open your conf.ini file with the text editor Post here your [Window] parameters (so that I can keep a copy of it) The [Window) is on the top of the file, just after the EpilepsyFilter line. Then look at my lines posted below and put exactly the same as I have, save conf.ini and run the game again, fly and try to resize the window again: [window] DepthBits =24 StencilBits=8 DrawIfNotFocused=1 Render=D3D10_0 ColourBits=32 FullScreen=0 ChangeScreenRes=0 Use3Renders=1 <= THIS YOU DO NOT NEED TO PUT IN YOUR CONF.INI ; Use 3 Monitors on a Matrox Parhelia - This does "widen" your view ; (put 1=for 3Renders) SaveAspect=0 ; Preserve a 4:3 view aspect (0 for widescreen put 1=for 3Renders) ; saveaspect=1 keeps a 4:3 setup of screen posLeft=348 <= THIS LEAVE IT AS IN YOUR CONF.INI posTop=0 <= THIS LEAVE IT AS IN YOUR CONF.INI Frequency=60 width=3072 <= THIS LEAVE IT AS IN YOUR CONF.INI height=945 <= THIS LEAVE IT AS IN YOUR CONF.INI Good luck! ~S~ |
I managed to get it running now in a better resolution and the onscreen display also shows SLI would run. But there is no gain in FPS. No matter what renderingmode i choose (AFR, AFR2, SFR, AFR fallback).
I get better performance when deactivating SLI in windows and run on 1 GPU only. Guess i just have to wait until the lazy bastard$ from Nvidia got to make a profile for the game. Thanks again for your help! Winger |
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Good post on SLI
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http://forums.guru3d.com/showthread.php?t=347795 Essentially after you extract the driver normally, you replace the nv_disp.inf file. Which is usually located at C:\NVIDIA\DisplayDriver\275.65\WinVista_Win7_64\In ternational\Display.Driver. Just copy and paste. If you have any questions just ask there. A lot of helpful folks. BTW a correction to the above. AFR 2 was giving some flickering in the water textures. AFR 1 still gave decent SLI scaling without the flickering. Nvidia needs to come out with a proper SLI profile. Hopefully the 280.xx coming out next week or so. |
HeavyHemi...
Are your SLI framerates good in fullscreen or are they windowed like Grathos? Also, is your setup just the new driver + .inf file + AFR 1? Or are you doing, as Grathos said, this: SLI compatibility bits (DX10): 0x000000F5? Thanks for finding the driver stuff. I'm hoping it helps with my GTX 470s. |
Man, I'm still very hesitant to buy this game. I've got 3x 3GB GTX580's in Tri-SLi and 3x displays @ 5960x1200. I don't want to have to drop back to using two cards (through drivers or by removing my third card) just to experience this game. Even then, I'm still not sure that the Aspect Ratio will be sufficient to take care of the stretching that the original IL-2 had.
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Unlike IL2FB the 3Renders option is not working (yet) in CoD so it is a problem. The only solution I found was to run the game in Window mode as my pictures show. So, the 3Renders option is the key and we have to wait for this to happen before we can enjoy nice wide view. In the meantime, the power of one 580GTX 3Gb will be enough to enjoy the game in full graphics so if I were you, I would not hesitate a moment buying the game and enjoying the graphics detail on single GPU mode. Afterwards with some searching, you will be able to activate the second GPU as well and this will be more than enough. By the time the 3Renders option will be available I am sure that SLI ill be working without any shortcuts and this will be the time where three GPUs will show their value. nice rig, by the way!!! ~S~ |
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Great post..very helpful Any ideas why I cant find this setting using 275.33 + 1.9.55: Quote:
EDIT: Nevermind I found it: I was missing CustomSettingNames_en-En.xml. Needed to be next to the .exe! = didnt work this attempt..hmmm Ill have to try again BTW: shadows off is blasphemy! |
Ok, I've got it going too with 2 460 GTXs, thanks to this post 335th_GRAthos. I can see an improvement in FPS. However, I think Im getting some micro-stutter at times??? (could be Im crazy)....I'll have to do some more testing/tweaking when I get some more time.
Heres what I did so far in order: (1) updated to 280.19 nvidia driver (2) I swapped out the nv_disp.inf file with the one linked (3) Used Invidia Inspector to change (a) SLI compatibility bits (DX10): 0x000000F5 (b) NVIDIA predefined SLI mode on DirectX 10: SLI_PREREFINED_MODE_DX10_FORCE_AFR I hope changing the nv_disp.inf was correct. Wasn't sure if that was necessary with this beta driver also. Please let me know if you see anything wrong or if I can tweak something. I'll repost if I have any better results Thanks again for getting this working for me |
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Does this fix "force AFR" work if SLI is disabled in the NVIDIA control panel? I just noticed my box was checked for Disable SLI. When I changed it to "Maximize 3D Performance", the game breaks with flickering and all sorts of craziness with 15fps. I must have done something wrong? I have to keep disabled SLI in this setting. Is this correct? or do I in fact not have SLI going? Looks like I dont...hmm |
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As far as I know, Disable SLI at the control panel means that you do NOT have SLI. It is also easy to cross check whether your two cards are working. Look at my screenshots at the far right you can see I have the monitors for each of the GPU cards and they show different temperature and MHz frequency for each card with SLI working and not. ~S~ |
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Very dramatic glitches and fps loss with SLI enabled...back to the drawing board I guess. Thanks for the help. Let me know if you have any ideas. http://i714.photobucket.com/albums/w...movik/snap.jpg This config did not work for me with or without the epilepsy filter. |
Ok, so I finally have SLI working and it had to with the Epilepsy Filter being unchecked. I read somewhere that this was the reason for SLI not working, so I checked it. Also, compatibility bits and AFR seemed to cause problems with my configuration.
So apparently, all it was as simple as checking/enabling the Epilepsy Filter. Still testing Code:
00, 31-07-2011 16:46:44, Hardware monitoring log v1.4 |
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Just to make sure I understood correctly, you got SLI working (after you found the error). Because from the code you posted above, looking at the differences between GPU1 and GPU2 in temp, shaders clock, it is obvious that only one GPU is active. ~S~ |
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I discovered I was SLI disabled in NVIDIA cp (perhaps the new driver 280.19 reset this setting? ) so I made sure to enable SLI. But when I went back into game, I got distant flickering, graphical errors and 15fps with stuttering. YIKES (which I also exp. with with the 275.33) Both instances using the settings that are working for you. I also tried without these settings and nothing worked until I checked the Epilepsy filter. So, Before SLI was "enabled" I was getting zeros on the 2nd GPU, but now it seems like something minimal is working there , no? Maybe I need to test more dramatic areas like London with planes, etc...this very small sample was over France where I was getting 40+fps average with mostly Med to High settings and Med trees |
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I see what you mean about the shader clock readings, but I dont know what to make of it: Code:
00, 01-08-2011 16:07:21, Hardware monitoring log v1.4 |
Hi katdogfizzow, sorry for the late reply, I am somewhere at the Greek islands kitesurfing (yes, there is life besides CoD, actually, THANKS TO LUTHIER's fridays' posts ;) ) so internet connection is limited.
Your SLI is not working. The numbers you need to monitor in order of appearance are: GPU1 core clock vs GPU2 core clock GPU1 shader clock vs GPU2 shader clock You can see that your GPU1 core and shader clock is working at full speed MHz as it should for 3D games. On the other side your GPU2 core and shader is idlling at the lowest MHz speed (in order to save energy). Only this shows that your GPU2 is not activated. This is step #1 to know that something is not working as it is supposed to be. Only AFTER you have GPU1 and GPU2 working at full speed, then you need to check GPU1 usage vs GPU2 usage BOTH GPUs should be working in the area of 75%-95% in order to have the SLI system working. I do not know why you experience so many problems, I am sorry for this. PS. run the game in window mode when you do your tests, just to make sure you imitate the same testing conditions as I did in my rig. ~S~ |
Its simply not working for me. Tried every conceivable configuration. Thanks for the feedback...That kite surfing sounds awesome. Saw some of that recently in Key West. Looks fun as hell
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03-31-2011, 06:14 AM Quote:
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Thanks, GRAthos! :) |
Some comments post-patch beta:
I did not notice any change to the fps rates before - after beta patch. The game seems to have less stutters when flying over areas with a lot of buildings. Flying above London is much better now. There is still some stutter flying at medium alt during the first pass (while the GPU is loading the building details). On the second fly over there is no stutter at all. Flying low above London gives no stutters at all (smaller view - less buildings to load ;) ) Could not notice the same improvement flying the Bf109 over the French harbour though, it still gives a lot of stutters. The amount of VRAM usage ist still high, my VRAM goes quickly to 1 - 1.2 Gb used (my cards have 1.3Gb VRAM) so I will stick to my recommendation that only 3Gb VRAM cards are the ones to go for. ~S~ |
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I have 1100W
I do not have the consumption ratingsat hand but this information "that the tests done were only with the gpu at idle, and not full" is incorrect. Most GPU tests I have seen provided information on power consumption at idle, middle and full usage so you should be able to find the numbers you need. Somebody raised the same question like you in this forum: http://www.tomshardware.com/forum/31...er-consumption Anyway, this will solve all your questions: eXtreme Power Supply Calculator Lite v2.5 http://www.extreme.outervision.com/p...ulatorlite.jsp Quote:
~S~ |
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Wise decision!
Out of personal experience (I have been building my own rig for the last 25years, last 6years SLI configurations), the cycle of graphics cards is about 1,5years. Every 1,5years the new GPU has twice the performance for the same price. It thus makes it impractical to buy a second GPU even if it is cheaper, because the performance will not be there (compared to the GPU cards available at that time). Especially for this game it will be the case: The game requires 2,1Gb of VRAM and higher and much faster GPU performance than currently available in the market. My prediction ids that the next (or over-next) GPUs will show a 50% increase in performance with this particular game and these will be the graphics cards we want to have! My 2cents only, I do not work for ATI or NVIDIA nor do I sell hardware :D so, everybody does what he thinks best. ~S~ |
Understand completely. As for sli, I've heard that two cards does not essentially give you twice the vram of the sinle card,..so is it the case that one card opertaing at 2.1vram or higher will always be better fps than say two 570's?
How are your frame rates with the two 570? I run original textures, grass off..forests low, buildings low, land shades low, fps is improving with these adjustments, but I'd like to see them consistenly 50=60....another question, would I get much of a benefit from increasing my cpu from say 3.3 to 3.5, or is the gpu really the key here? Thanks again for your help, makes the choices easier to hear from someone who has been building for years, I've been at it for about 10 years, I've always thought one beefy card is better than two cards in sli, probably should have got the 580, wanted the 590, just too pricey, and I was hearing of bugs with it. The game obviously is still in its teething period as far as bugs, enhancements and improvements, so probably best to wait till the tree has been fully shaken and everything falls into place, which is probably at least 6 months down the road if not more like 9. SH5 was pretty bad untill the issues were all worked out, and when the modders got ahold of the stable game, it really shined at that point, and is awesome, if you like subsims thanks again! |
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Which is the bottleneck in the case of CoD (among other things...) My point is that today, the GTX580 with 3Gb VRAM is the card to buy (and not the smaller version with 1,5Gb "only"). My personal opinion posted many times is that even the GTX580 is not good enough for the game and we have to wait for two generations of GPUs to see real performance... Quote:
From what I have read in various forums it seems that higher CPU speed helps, never saw hard evidence though. Personal opinion, if you know how to and it is easy, you should do it (within reason). I increased my i7 from 2.9GHz to 3.6GHz it probably made a little difference. Looking at your HDD model and the available RAM you have, I would recommend you invest your time on something else: Quote:
~S~ |
aquilone
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Technologies are useless without a proper employment, people have to learn now how to do better things using at best what is in their possession. I design for industries and this thirst for new technologies makes me laugh...but maybe I should cry. Using a 3Gb gc to play COD is like put a rocket engine on a kite |
LOL!
I must admit your comments are not out of place! I still have one 5.1/4 floppy disk with Turbo-Pascal on it...and wonder why new SW comes in 5-7Gb packages. Despite that my comment stays: "even the GTX580 is not good enough for the game" (this game) :D The graphics are an overkill? Surely (I hope you have seen Tuckie's YouTube Video in high definition (340Mb), it shows how much detail has been put inside). The graphics are badly programmed? Possibly (I am not an expert) But I am not unhappy neither with my SLI nor with my frame rates. And remain hopeful for the near future. ~S~ |
I had no idea there was a gtx570 with 3.0 gigs vram, ar you sure? do you know where I can find it? It seems this would more than likely play the game quite well...at least Im hoping...thx
How about this card?? Video / Graphics Cards > PCI Express 2.0 > 1GB or more ZOTAC ZT-50103-10P GeForce GTX 580 Video Card - 3GB, GDDR5, PCI-Express 2.0 (x16), 2x Dual-Link DVI, Mini-HDMI 1.4a, DirectX 11, Dual-Slot, SLI Ready |
Who said there is a GTX570 with 3Gb VRAM, there is not.
The only card with 3Gb VRAM to my knowledge is the GTX580 version. This is definitively the card to have for the time being! (because as I mentioned in previous posts, I believe we have to wait for two generations of GPUs to come in order to see real performance with this game). You can see the performance of this card thanks to Tuckie's great work (download the high quality video but be careful, the 1080 quality is 340Mb ) FPS test video on switching from GTX275 to GTX580 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fgqr41HA8YA ~S~ |
Do we know if that is a 3gig 580 or 1.5? Thanks for the comparison..seeing that my current set up knocks every game I have out of the field..even those with direct 11, the logical and best choice I now think absolutely is to wait for the next or second gen card..as you mentioned..no need spending a lot now JUST to get smooth fps on this one game...when given time..a newer generation card will handle CoD well..AND new games as well...buying the 580 would be just throwing money away at the moment..to play one game..and would be obsolete two years down the road for the newer offerings which I believe will take more and more advantage of direct x 11. 20-30 fps with this 580 does not seem to be worth it...IF he is playing with 1.5 ram..but..either way..thing to do is wait..which is hard for me and most gamers. ;)
Thanks again reading th posted commetns on that vid..its the 1.5 card. |
Just tested RickRuski's recommended setups and installed the new NV drivers.
The SLI setup is much smoother now! Quote:
~S~ |
Hmmm....it is very strange.
I had two days of great SLI playing on the REPKA Server #3 with 70-100 fps and no stutters. The third day (today) I had a different experience: Flying towards the enemy (blue) base island, towards a dogfight with many planes, my fps dropped to 6-14fps !!!!! This time there were some planes more in the server but I still can not explain the difference. So I am sad to say that the problems remain to be solved. I can not however explain the first two good days of flaing though. ~S~ |
It is nice to see that some "inexpensive" NV cards appear in the market with >2Gb VRAM.
GTX570 2.5Gb VRAM GTX560ti 2Gb VRAM GTX550ti 3Gb VRAM GTS450 3Gb VRAM GT430 2Gb VRAM Has anybody tried them with CoD? I have my eyes set on these GTX570 2.5Gb but I wonder how much improvement I will get for 600EUR (I need two) just for increasing VRAM from 1,3Gb to 2,Gb ... ~S~ |
Update 28 October 2011
I stopped using SLI and fly only on a single GTX570 1,3Gb card after I realised that in sli mode I was getting less smooth game albeit I had almost double fps! Thanks to the ATAG server (because it provided us with a very high end platform in terms of CPU (6xXeon), RAM (48Gb) and Bandwidth (10Mbps)- a great thanks to the members of ATAG!!!) I had the opportunity to test excessively my rig online at different settings. Flying the English channel map with dozens of enemy planes and bombers, I have nice 50fps on a single GPU (and 90fps on sli but the game is not smooth enough fr my taste) at resolution 3024x1024. I will post some pictures and my settings soon... I still have problems, notably the current patch has a dreaded "memory leak" so watch your av ailable RAM indicator while flying, is it over 94% used, you are bound to exerience a CTD very soon. The only solution is to stop COD and restart the game. But it is less tragic that it sounds if you know and control the situation. As a sum up, I will have to revise the title of my post, "sli is not really working" or to be more objective, the latest official patch (Oct. 2011) made the game easily playable with med range 1,3Gb VRAM graphics card (as long as a 570GTX is considered med-range). This is a big improvement and congratulations to 1C! (of course, there is we expect). ~S~ |
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