IL2 and Sound Modding
 

There is a debate ongoing on various forum about the sound modding that can be downloaded.

Sure we can question the legality of the issue. Does it modify the source code? Is it some form of hacking? What about copyrights? etc. etc.

But let's face it. This improvement has been requested since ages and has been one of the weak points repeated over and over. For a flight simulation program, the engine, and other aircraft systems as well as the guns sound are a critical immersion factor.

I do not understand why Oleg has not done it. It was inevitable that over time it would have been done, even more when SOW takes so much time to come out. History shows that no software can be undefinitively protected against any form of cracking/hacking/modding call it whatever you want.

The only way to avoid it is to act before it happens. I am even sure that if this improvement with some others like maps and additional objects would have been sold as an add-on package it would have sold well. I speak for myself but after five years of having bought all the IL2 products I would have not hesitated to pay for such an "Immersion improvement package".

From my point of view Oleg missed the timing. When the team was still available to work on the various improvement like 1946 or even the previous patches this effort would have been doable. Now that all the team is full steam on SOW it is clearly too late.

The work that has been done by as I understand a team of modders, in any case does not spoil the game but gives it some fresh air and longer lifetime. If Oleg has not enough resources available why not team with them, help them to make it perfect along the Oleg Maddox top quality criteria.

For sure that SOW-BOB will have these improvements but SOW will first concentrate on the BOB. This means that for those who fight on the Pacific they will still have IL2 as the only possible choice for some time to come until a new version of it is delivered. The sound improvements are then welcomed until the full range of possibilities that today exist in IL2 are provided and even supassed by SOW.

So by any means SOW-BOB will not kill IL2. Both games will continue and as such IL2 should still be supported from some time to come.

Gold


My rig:
QX6700 Quad Core Extreme
Asus Commando Board
4 GB DDR2
Asus GeForce 8800 Ultra
Samsung 24" display - 1920X1200
Sound Board Creative X-FI
CH products Throttle and Stick
Track IR Pro

So it was all Olegs fault that illegal HACKERS hacked HIS code, broke the EULA and then obviously forced people to download this illegal HACK and ILLEGALY install it on their systems :roll: ......that explains everything :roll: :evil:


IBTL :roll:

It seems to me your conclusion is a little short. You miss the point.

What you obviously are unable to understand that Il-2 and SoW:BoB are not mere pasttimes the guys at Maddox Games do in their freetime because they don't have anything better to do. These are commercial products which are by default a collection of trade-offs between commercially viable, financially acceptable and eligible from a gamer's POV. They have to earn money - they have a contract with Ubisoft and 1C to produce entertainment software which can be sold at a profit and so these two entities are calling the shots. And obviously the sounds fell through the priority grid for reasons none of us know.

Blaming the existance of the hack on Oleg is IMO simply a lame and transparent attempt at justifying the actions its makers. You don't like Maddox Games's development priorities? Tough, deal with it. All you can do is voting with your wallet but stop trying top justify some goon who needed the five minutes of internet glory by cracking files he shouldn't have poked his nose into. Nuff said .. :roll:

PS: And to suggest Maddox Games should support the hackers. Ridiculous, ludicrous and completely out of touch with reality. If I were a doc I'd prescribe a dose of reality. :roll: http://209.85.48.10/2866/23/emo/[face_doh].gif

Its seems you missed the point Gold. Its not about the sound. Its about hacking the code that can also modify the FM. The sound mod may give a few people great enjoyment, but can effectively kill most of the On-line componant.

I'm not even sure the sound mod is any good. Some people say its great others not so great. I know sounds in other sims get the thumbs up but alot of these sounds are unrealistic, some even laughable.

Also the IC company may have lost considerable revenue do to this hack. They may be unable to sell the rights to third parties to provide add-ons which may have included new sounds.

Chivas, I must admit I have no idea about the online issues. The fact is that I never played online. I am more interested in building and flying scenarios I create from WWII events.

csThor, By the way I already voted with my wallet. I paid and have all original the original disks. Some were bought in multiple copies of the software that I gave to friends as gifts or kept as backup in case. So I did my very fair part of supporting Oleg excellent product and since the many years on other forums had the occasion to praise him and his work. It does not mean that all is perfect though like the sound issue.

csThor you insists I should have a dose of reality.
Ok. Here is the reality: It is unevitable that the soft would be one day hacked. It is a very successfull product and has been around for years with unabated success. It was a target. I am very realistic saying that it is only a matter of time. One way to fight this is to be ahead of the hackers. I understand it is a costly issue and time consuming and difficult to do in a competitive world, but it is so.

The solution that is to make the software extremely well protected has also often backfired and generally put the paying customer in a difficult position. It happened to me with the PE-2 online acquisition I made with the starforce protection system. PE-2 worked fine only once I bought 1946 and did a full reinstall from scratch and on a new rig.

Banks very often hire the hackers to make better software and more robust software. You know what they say: "if you can't beat them join them".

So my proposal was that if there are talented guys out there then why not use them. I know it seems naive, but only up to a point.

Gold

Hacking IL2 is a reality, but sorry, we don't buy it. Perhaps without Oleg alive and here. But he is with the community and we are with him. Hackers go home!

Here's the problem,

They are Hackers not MODDERS plain and simple I do not care what the perceived intent was. That have destroyed the game. The 6DOF is total rank amateur BS, Making things flyable is messing with FM's.

Now since they could not make the Avenger flyable they are going to try to crack the FM for it and change it's center of balance. So there you have it. It will not be long before the babies and teenie bobbers or the adults who have no skills and can only win by cheating will come up with God weapons that blow you away in one shot. Aim bots. Speed Hacks(which =FB= has been using for ages.)

It's a sad, sad day. I do not care that you fly off line or on. the offline tools are being used in online servers and as such, thats the crime.Heck the EULA abusers are all in AAA server on hyperlobby. Track down the IP's and start the legal process. Shut the AAA site down and ban them all.

Locks only keep honest people honest, scum like these hackers will always find a way to ruin every honest simmers fun just to prove that we should fly it their way.

losers and all who support them should be locked away in the Gulag!!!

PFTTT!

The way I see it, they had no right to hack the code, and most of the hack mods are very low grade, that is, if you read the posts at their hang out.....I think that they did alot of damage, and most likely delayed the release of bob. I think the sound mod might have been adopted by Oleg, if they would have approched him with it, possibly.....they ( the hacks) have ruined on-line play, or at the very least, have made people uncomfortable, or un-easy with on-line play

Re: IL2 and Sound Modding
 

you've missed the point yourself as to why a hack like that is a major problem for the il2 community. nobody really cares if somebody uses different sound files for a few aircraft engine noises, and i suspect that for all oleg cares you could choose to replace the sounds of aircraft engines with the sounds of barking dogs or wailing banshees..

the real problem is that a lot of other parts of the il2 code have also been altered or unlocked at the same time, and you have now no way of knowing how fair or unfair online flying is when you join a server.

individual aircraft characteristics (speed, turn rate, weapons load, flight behavior) have been hacked, so you can now have yak's that fly at the speed of a rocket plane, take off like a harrier, and turn in mid air like a hurricane at stall speed, and all this while carrying unlimited ammo on a server that doesnt allow it (youtube video's have already been posted which show that exact type of problem occurring) .

the hack has also delayed the release of the 4.09 patch, and important bug fixes we have been asking for previously will not be addressed now because there is no time left. BoB will also incur some delay because the whole file protection system has the be altered and made safer.

I agree with the original poster that the sounds are maybe the weakest part of IL2, the different engines sound too much the same. I also use the 'mod' to my own enjoyment, not to gain high ground above ppl, but just for the sake of having more real sounding engines.

But I also agree that the unlocking of the IL2 files comes with sour grapes too, FM cheating. And of course, it's illegal.

Oh well, let's hope Oleg & bunch get the 4.09 out with a new kind of protection so we can end all these debates about the hacks. :wink:

I'm hoping with 4.09 the code will have changed enough for the hackers to not want to bother cracking it again and simply leave them be with 4.08.

Basically we will have 4.08 "mod" servers and the newly patched 4.09 servers will be "Mod free", gives us all the best of both worlds really.
The mod is out there so nothing we can do about it now, once 4.09 is out they can mod 4.08 till there hearts are content and hopefully leave 4.09 alone, all we need now is a bit of a gentleman's agreement with the people over at the place that will not be mentioned but supplies said "mod" that they will work on 4.08 only, for the good of the online community and leave 4.09 alone.

Isn't going to happen..Oleg himself says that there is little they can do about the illegal HACK other than to give a damn big THANK YOU to the morons that did it and those that support it :evil:

Oleg can't afford to support this game forever. All software products end up this way if one doesn't know. Even Microsoft software. Games are much worse. Il-2 had it's run and it was a long one by any standard. Oleg is devoting his energies now to the one series we want so will you all give this hack stuff a rest. If there is a community of people out there willing to devote there own free time,monies and energy into supporting the product I say fine. It only benfits games sales of il-2 that give maddox even more money to put into newer and far better projects.

The End

I would agree with you Stalkervision but up to a point. There is still a prerequisite:

Oleg or whatever company who has the rights of the software should at least take a formal position by saying that the software is not any more supported, that there will be no more patches and that it is allowed for those who are willing to spend effort to improve the game like: sounds, new objects, new maps or new flyble aircrafts or making some aircraft systems work or behave correctly, iron bugs etc. All these "improvements" being non supported and at the entire risk of those who would install them.

Without this kind of statement any modification of the core engine (i understand that the sound mods imply this is what has been done) is pure hacking and pure stealing of rights. And there is no obligation for those detaining the rights to IL-2 to make such a statement. It is a pure economical/marketing decision.

From the marketing point of view, once SOB is out it would make some sense to open some functionality as long as the addendums or mods are to be added to a legitimate acquisition of the IL2 game. This will probably will benefit Oleg as IL2 copies of the game will continue to be sold (at a lower price for sure).

If we look at the example of the airplane skins. That issue was never regarded as hacking because it was an opening well planned and structured from the beginning to allow for such improvements. It is unfortunate that the sounds and objects were not also designed this way.

What has made this game so longlasting?

At the base is the excellence of the product and the unique immersivity as well as the continous support and improvements from Oleg. Then come two other factors:
1) The online gaming capability. I am not a specialist on this functionality though.
2) The possibility that has been given to all of us through the FMB (that could also be much improved) and Skins to create our own scenarios. On this issue I am an expert. Like the addition of skins, sounds and objects should also have been part of items allowed for the simmers to play with. Once you finished the campaigns it is the only way to go on, and possibilities become infinite.

So let's see how things will evolve in future, but believe me we are all supporters of Oleg, even if I really miss him. One small topic from him, here and there should really not be an issue during a full days work. It takes a minute and would please so much all of his supporters.
I really miss the times when after the first IL2 release when Oleg was more present and answered some of our remarks.

Gold

4.09 is in the works. Oleg hasn't abandoned this series, yet. SOW is still vaporware IMHO and may never happen!!!

Even the mere discussion of this stuff here is supporting the Hackers and making their Napoleon complexes grow.

Stop the madness, Stop talking about the Hacks and let 1C and Maddox do what they need do to put the AAA site out of commission.

The community ought to start a global list of anyone flying in the AAA server and post up the thread for all to know who supports hackers. If your a Offline pilot what will it matter since it is the Online that has the chance of being compromised...

Beowulf,

Your proposal sounds vastly exhaggerated. I'm an online pilot and I don't feel threatened at all neither by modders nor by people flying on AAA. Let proscription lists where they do belong .... the sewers of humanity.

Regards,
Insuber

Oleg has said he is dropping the game. He just has one minor patch in the works and it is by-by for him. The only people that are getting their panties in a knot are the on-line dweebs that cry like little girls whenever they get shot down. Then they call...CHEAT!! :x

Dear All,
Quite honestly I don't have an opinion about hackers. All I can say is as I see it, in England a man's home is his castle. When you buy something it is yours to do with what you like. I cannot personally get used to the idea that you buy something that is actually still not yours even after you pay good money for it. Once you have paid for it the makers have their money and let's face it they even set the price for it.
With regard to the arguement about 'cheaters', if people know each other then why should they cheat?
Best regards,
SLP

Pike

With all due respect. You pay a few bucks for software that has taken countless manhours to produce and develop and you actually believe its yours to do whatever you like. Maybe in your own home, were nobody knows or cares, but the problem here is people are taking out on the web, etc.

The folks who did this and the one's who use it should be quashed with every legal means possible.

End of story.

Quote and the source please.

The fact has no influence on the law whatsoever.Funny how you people don`t like others calling it by name: crime.


A bit more complicated I`m afraid.The issue is not online/offline related. It is EULA/intellectual law related.
Anyone saying that Oleg Maddox doesn`t care about his intellectual laws being broken is either stupid or has an interest in saying so.

Nice thing about trying to picture those respecting Oleg as people with psychical equilibrium problems.
It`s quite obvious that folks blaming Oleg for the whole thing let alone ingoring his personal laws need some help.

Everyone`s freedom goes as long way as it does not offend anyone else`s freedom.

A standard rule for every of today`s civilized society.

........
 

The weak link in your analogy is that you didn't hack a file for your own personal use. If it was just that there'd be no problem. It wouldn't possibly cause problems on line.... It wouldn't cause a schism in the community. Your house would stand fine.

Someone else hacked the files and supplied the means to that hack for other players, thus affecting more than the 'house' you bought. It's caused a mentality and aura of suspicion. it showcases arrogance by the hackers blaming Oleg. AND if memory serves me Oleg said there would be possible 3rd pparty measures for the fututre of IL2. (Not positive) So it potentially affected his income.....


I have no personal opinion on any one who uses it, but I wish the persons who hacked the game would be honest and just say they hacked the game because they wanted to, NOT because the sounds were bad. That's the excuse. Not the reason

Hell if you're gonna hack.....fix the damn AI.



EDIT: I should say IMPROVE the AI. For a 6 year old game that started with a limited plane set and limited objectives, it's done fairly well. But I'm expecting more.... MUCH more with BoB. TYVM.

Re: ........
 

Rumours of IL2's death are not exaggerated:

Somebody hacked a dead game. Guess it's time to start worrying about something important: Third World debt relief. The AIDS crisis. Famine in Zimbabwe. The suppression of democratic freedoms in Russia. The rise of the Chinese economy. Global Warming. Israel and Hezbollah. Iran/Iraq.

Y'know - really important stuff.

Can you do it, Carguy? Can ya? :lol:

So that's it huh?

We just run up the white flag and let the hackers win?

Most of the UBI mods have already surrendered.

Is that all there is to it?

The best piece of software I've ever put on my computer, shredded to bits, online play being jeapardized, poorly done aircraft being pasted up, international laws broken, a very creative group's jobs/livelyhood possibly damaged, and we now say OK?

I'm sorry, but I don't get it, at all.

Re: ........
 

Nothing more to add.

Chivas,
Yes I actually believe it belongs to me just as they take my hard earned money, believe they can do with it what they like...and DO do with it what they like! It would not be nice nor right of me to have the game for 6 months or a year and then say "I want my money back as it still belongs to me and anyway, this game does not do what I want it to." I have nothing against Oleg....he has my full support and has given me a window into the past to enjoy. I would rather pay him directly and let him divide the money up into who gets what portion of it. I have no time for those lawyers who say that you buy something, but its not really yours so you cannot even lend it to someone else without breaking some law or other. I tell you something, I can see the Net going like the stock exchange where everything is based on confidence and there is only paper.....no money.
I think there is a strong cultural divide between Europeans and Americans on this particular issue since in the US most things are rented, not owned.
Best regards,
SLP

The above is total BS. YOU MADE THE AGREEMENT TO BUY A LICENSE, NOT THE CODE. If you didn't like the EULA, then you shouldn't have installed it. EVERYONE KNOWS THAT MOST SOFTWARE IS PURCHASED ON A LICENSE BASIS.

I live in the US, have for my entire 38 years, and aside from a moving truck and movies, I've never rented anything. To say that, "...in the US most things are rented, now owned...", is just ignorant.

--Outlaw.

This is really the point I am making in that the whole idea is to get the consumer just where you want him so that the 'company' dictates the terms to the consumer with no personal componant and he has to agree to something whether he understands it or not and click on a box. It's a bit like the signing a pact with the devil idea. I am not versed in law, I was not aware of the licence business and I would appreciate you not attacking me over whether it is true that things in the US are owned or rented. From my viewpoint I thought that was the case but it may not be.
I takes all sorts to make a world.
Best regards,
SLP.

Pike

The point is.... the developer will sell you a product for a few bucks that costs them thousands to develope, if you respect their rights to the product. Tell me how these companies who provide a product you enjoy so much can stay in business if the first one they sell, is copied, changed, and sold or given away. With "you sold it to me I can do whatever I like" attitude.
The people who have hacked the game have put in jeopardy the future sales of possible 3rd party developers of the IL-2 series. And possibly put in jeopardy the code security of the SOW series, delaying development, or even making SOW not worth the effort. Extreme...yes but everything has its consequences.

"CONSEQUENCES", is a concept that most of the hackers have no comprehension of :roll:

They are part of that "I want it, and I want it NOW!" generation that simply are incapable of understanding how much they have damaged future developments :roll:

Indeed Wulf, indeed.

I hear you. I agree too. I've resolved in myself that there's nothing that can really be done. I can complain about it untill the cows come home. It's not going to change anything.

I hate the fact that one needs to take unnecessary precautions to play a fair game. (even if it is JUST the perception of illigitimate playing one must protect themselves from)

I was thinking of a funny thing concerning a picture at the UBI forums. A hacker posted a picture of the Salem Witch trials where they hung/stoned/ burned suspicious individuals. The poster didn't mention the difference between situations as related in 1600s and now. They weren't wiches back then..... but they ARE hackers today. :D :P

Dear Chivas,
No I do not like the idea of someone taking the product and immediately copying it a million times. This would indeed jepardise any future sales of the product and would not give any financial return. But equally I do not like the idea of returns of the likes of Bill Gates who has ridiculous sums of money for his 8hrs a day plus overtime. I suppose it comes down to why hackers do it. In this case I don't think the hackers have done it for financial gain, but for trying to include all those aircraft etc that everyone would like. It is obvious that Oleg and his crew would never be able to accomodate everyone even if he was not involved with SOW BOB. It just shows how popular this game is. But the life of the game will be extended far longer than it otherwise would be, so in a way there are benefits and I'm sure that Oleg had no doubt that eventually it would be hacked by someone.
At the moment there is a British man in the news who is accused of breaching US security and they are trying to extradite him to be tried in the US. He does not deny what he did because he was just curious, but he strongly disputes the amount of damage he did by doing it. To me it smacks of "throw the book at him" attitude of the US defence network so they exaggerate things out of all proportion.
Best regards,
SLP

Sorry but I don't quite get it.

I thought that with the serverside consistency check set to 2, you cannot play with the sound mod/hack on that server?

So where's the problem? Did I miss something?

Sorry dude but the EULA cleary states that it's a legal agreement. If you agree to something you don't understand, you are the one at fault. There is no one pointing a gun at your head forcing you to click on that box.


If he knew that he was not authorized to do what he was doing then game over. If he actually hacked security measures (as opposed to just finding something unsecured) into sensitive military information then he should be executed. I would expect (and I would demand) no less from the UK or any other country if the roles were reversed.

--Outlaw.

Dear Outlaw,
According to him there were no passwords but I don't know about the authorization bit. Execution is a little excessive and short-sighted don't you think?
Also, that is a bit of a convienience isn't it.......you are at fault if you don't fully understand it.....I suppose you are supposed to pay a fortune to a lawyer to have it explained to you, which if you are not that rich is excessive. I just find it interesting that life is full of situations where "sod you, I'm all right Jack" is embraced and there is little room for understanding or charity and yet we claim belief in fare play and decency. We all know that there are people who will rob and steal out there and many do it legally because of technicalities.
best regards,
SLP

Never quite understood this EULA thing.Is it American?

Re: ........
 

Doesn`t change a thing from the legal point of view.Why don`t you find someone who doesn`t like his car.The steal it, the car ain`t his favorite anyway.Maybe the Police banging at your door will make you understand what are you doing.Wait, there`s very little probability that you will be fined/judged for you actions.That makes you spit in Oleg`s face and laugh.Just because there is little way of making you feel the consequences of your doing.Those two things are quite the same.
It is said that one of humanity`s biggest achievements is making people respect private property.Your symbolic example only shows that carnal law is one of the most useful mechanisms the humanity could develop.

2nd is that things would probably go to the trusted 3rd party as Oleg said.I don`t see you quoting that.I know why.It simply makes your thesis false.3rd party HACKING reduces the above possibility significantly.I`m not exactly surprised you didn`t think about it.You have quite a support.


Oh thank you very much.

1st off I wouldn`t think you`re able to grade things correctly given your intellect.I`ll just pass on your advice,thank you.

2nd I`m on the boards long enough to take just about any insult with a smile.You want to "piss me off"?Throw some relevant arguments into the topic that I couldn`t break down after 15seconds of thinking how to build a polite reply.
You can howl as long as you want.I`ll give you facts that noone of you mod supporters were ever able to take down.

3rd, we have global institutions taking care of that.I`m doing my part by giving them some money from time to time.

4th, it`s not exactly time consuming/ hard to tell you how limited the likes of you are.

Hi Pike

There is a huge difference between Bill Gates and the Maddox team. Bill Gates develops a sim and forgets about it. They even dropped the whole series. It was also designed to be modded by the community.
The Maddox team have supported their game since 2001 and had plans to licence the further development of the sim after they moved on to the SOW series. Portions of the sim were never designed or intended to be modded. The monies they make on this sim will make noone a multi-millionaire.
CFS3 needed to be heavily modded to be at all interesting. Even if you added in all the best mods of CFS3, it still wouldn't even come close to the quality of the IL-2 series.

That is very true! 8)

If he was aware that he was not authorized then I'd tend to be hard on him, although the lack of active hacking would count for something.


Not for treason and/or spying it's not and, like I said, I would expect the same from any other country.


There's no fault in not understanding, however, if you AGREE to something you don't understand then you are at fault. Maybe it's just me but the EULA just isn't that hard to understand.

--Outlaw.

That can be debatable in a court of law, even though it's spelled out it can be-fought! The judge may find fault of the company for not fully explaining the use of the EULA, depends on the amount of money and time the Company want's to spend on that person.

Maybe the "Modded car anology" is a good one here. You buy a car from a car company. Now there is a whole industry built up on modding those original cars isn't there? In fact modders even routinely hack the cars cpu computer software to make performance mods for these very same cars and they all sell these performance mods without any money going back to the original company that I know of. What is the difference here? The EULA? :? No one is selling original Il-2 games here. Hell, they aren't even making any money on the mods even. All I see is a bunch of whiney baby on-liners making all kinds of excuses up why no one should touch their precious game whatsoever because someone may just cheat on them in on-line play. :x Isn't this why software like "punkbusters" was invented? Seems to me it is up to the servers to inforce cheating rules and not on-line whiners... :roll:

To me many the on-line crowd are extreamly selfish. They think not a bit about the non-onliners whatsoever just that someone may cheat on them in some on-line game. IMO these complainers more often then not are substandard pilots. Hell i see these same type of complainers whine about the game's ai cheating them even! :lol:

"Darn it the Ai is modding it'self now.! :x " :lol: :lol:

This is getting complicated.......suffice is to say that I personally have no bones about paying for a really exceptional and enjoyable sim like this one. I have every respect for Oleg and the efforts that he puts in for us all and would just love to meet and talk to the man himself. I cannot wait for BoB and have preordered it. I realize that these legalities are really there to stop one company from ripping off another and not so much for the ordinary Punter like you and I. It just annoyes me when I see situations where these laws appear to be a convienience for getting at people who are (or seem to be) just trying to make things better for all of us. Much the same as the situation with Oleg and the Avenger farce....as I saw it there was no need for it and to me they were just being awkward because they could be.
Best regards,
SLP

Just found out pike that for modding purposes the EULA means absolutely nothing. This is from a lawyer btw. The on-line flying community has been trying to sell this myth over and over to all the modders so they wouldn't mod the game it now appears. It is also pretty certain they knew it meant nothing right from the start! :x

:lol: I'll find three lawyers that say otherwise!!! nice try stalker!

And those who point fingers at people being substandard are usually the ones that are substandard. I know the truth hurts....

I could care less what you do off-line with the program, but using the stuff on line is complete BS for every "honorable" mod user is 10 "cheater" mod users. Only looking to cause havoc and show everyone what a smacktard they are.

[quote="stalkervision"]If Activision (or any other company) released the IL-2 hack and accompanying content (I'm talkin' for free here), they would be in court before the news hit The Register.

Just because there is no prosecution does not mean there is no fault or guilt. It doesn't take a lawyer to know that the IL-2 hackers have nothing to fear. It would cost much to go after them for no gain.

If a EULA wasn't legally binding then companies would not be paying the grabillions they do for software licenses.

--Outlaw.

While it is true that fault or guilt only extends as far as what a judge or jury can be convinced of, that doesn't change fact. We all know of cases where a person committed the crime but were found not guilty (at fault) due to technicalities or just plain stupidity. The opposite is also true as shown by the many people that have been cleared by DNA evidence of crimes they were found "guilty" of committing long ago.

IMO the IL-2 EULA is not that hard to understand.

--Outlaw.

something that's kind of shaping my thinking. The sound mod itsself is kind of gray territory here as it doesn't look like a true mod. Whereas turning non flyable ai aircraft into human flyables is

I don't see how anyone could think this way. By definition there is no such thing as an IL-2 mod, only hacks and the severity is inconsequential.

--Outlaw.

Stalkervision quote
----------------------------------------------------------
To me many the on-line crowd are extreamly selfish. They think not a bit about the non-onliners whatsoever just that someone may cheat on them in some on-line game. IMO these complainers more often then not are substandard pilots. Hell i see these same type of complainers whine about the game's ai cheating them even!
----------------------------------------------------------


hmmmm...lets see every other combat flight sims can be modded or hacked and here we have one sim that the on-line community can call home, and you want this one screwed up aswell. You call us extremely selfish. Those sims that had on-line communities were ruined by these hacks.

Does your supposition that complainers are substandard pilots hold true with your own complaining. Those that resort to name calling are usually trying to deflect scrutiny of their own deficiencies.

People who join the on-line community usually have their ass handed to them at first because they are used to flying only against the AI. They go away complaining about cheaters, lol. Until they tough it out and learn from those with on-line experience.

I can hear your screaming now, if someone hacked the AI in your latest download of BOB WOV and you had your ass handed to you everytime you flew off-line.

Got charts? In my experience even in a high cheat environment there are maybe one cheater in ten, not the other way around. I have no problem with the anti hack view and am fully aware of the dangers it MAY pose, but to accuse 10 out of 11 mod users of being cheaters with absolutely no evidence or even anectotes to suggest such just weakening your own position. 10 out of 11 mod users wouldn't even know how to cheat, since there are no cheats being released as mods (the tools are there yes, but you still have to know what you are doing). If you want to argue against the mod go right ahead, just come up with a way that is not innacurate to the point of being silly while insulting a lot of people. Again, inacurasies and insults do not put you on the high ground even if your side is right (which is debatable).

I just found this .. something that could of be done long ago.. as many other fixes no wonder guys took out things into their hands.
http://www.gozr.net/iocl/images/mod/NormandyHack.jpg
http://www.gozr.net/iocl/images/mod/NormandyHackmap.jpg

Did it ever occur to anyone that the developer was perhaps reserving the right to implement certain features into his next sim? Features that thanks to a few clever individuals have now been prematurely launched.. and that of course is well within the developers rights..

The thing that really kind of just makes me shake my head at all this is....

1)Some of the hackers have the gall... the GALL to say that Oleg & 1C brought this on themselves because they didn't give them what they wanted when they wanted it. Unbelievable...

2)Some of the hackers act like they are owed something... as if they were cheated. 1C gave us all the best d@mned WWI aerial combat sim... PERIOD. It may have been missing some planes.. but I can guarantee that the reason why this sim has lasted as long as it has... and at the pinnacle that it has remained at for so long is that the integrity of it's code was safe. Yes.. I know all about the clowns who hacked into it a few years ago... but at least they didn't put it all out there.... Oleg owes us nothing.... we got what we paid for.


You know.... When I got into IL2 I was not a hardcore simmer.. I liked to fly.. but it would get kind of boring. One of the first things that impressed me when I came to IL2 from CFS was the community.. and the fact that the guy that made the sim was actually [b]talking to the folks who flew it.. and he even flew it himself!!!! Blew me away. I was on Hyperlobby my first night.. and there he was.. Oleg Maddox.. right there with the folks who bought his sim.. I remember when the 1.2 patch came out... and the Friday updates.. and the rumors of an add on.... one that would add more planes.. Thunderbolt... Hawks..... and Mustangs..


Good times for sure... and it is just a shame that this is how it is ending up.. Let me ask this... What other piece of software has occupied a space on your HD like this series.... even if you just got to it in the past year... what other piece of software aside from your OS that is not business related... gets your attention? I don't know about you folks.. but for me there is none.

I am looking forward to BoB.... and I hope like h@ll that it can remain un hacked longer than IL2 did.. and that my fried is saying something.. Personally I think one of the main reasons wy it has lasted this long has been because the code was encrypted...

Nope.. never something was made to improve and they wouldn't .. I'm trying to understand as well what can make peoples mod.. and this is a good reason because daddy oleg is a bit stock and seeing a great sim like il2 at the end of it's carreer and nothing been done to really improve in certain areas or just fix things.

.. lets not be so critical on 1C developers ... IMHO their intentions and wishes are compromised by obligations and contracts with publisher ... Hope that with BoB will be different .

anyhow author of that map told me that all the work on normandy took only three days of his time ...

Chivas"]Stalkervision ----------------------------------------------------------
To me many the on-line crowd are extreamly selfish. They think not a bit about the non-onliners whatsoever just that someone may cheat on them in some on-line game. IMO these complainers more often then not are substandard pilots. Hell i see these same type of complainers whine about the game's ai cheating them even!
----------------------------------------------------------


Chiva.."hmmmm...lets see every other combat flight sims can be modded or hacked and here we have one sim that the on-line community can call home, and you want this one screwed up aswell. You call us extremely selfish. Those sims that had on-line communities were ruined by these hacks."

stalker.. I see no evidence whatsoever for this and nor does anyone else. :roll: "here we have one sim that the on-line community can call home." Stalker>Exactly your claiming the whole game as yours and only your property..! :shock:


Chivas.. Does your supposition that complainers are substandard pilots hold true with your own complaining. Those that resort to name calling are usually trying to deflect scrutiny of their own deficiencies.

stalker> I have no problem whatsoever with worrying about on-line cheaters. Obviously the situation isn't the same for you is it.. :)

chivas.." People who join the on-line community usually have their ass handed to them at first because they are used to flying only against the AI. They go away complaining about cheaters, lol. Until they tough it out and learn from those with on-line experience. "

stalker> of course

Chivas.." I can hear your screaming now, if someone hacked the AI in your latest download of BOB WOV and you had your ass handed to you everytime you flew off-line. "

Stalker> ahh what, screaming about being hacked "off-line" :lol: :lol: :lol: God this argument is way too silly! :lol: I have killed mig 21's and mig 15's many many times in a me-110 in WOV. You think a little thing like a hack of a basic piston airplane would even stop me.. Your rich... :lol:


Like I said substandard on-line pilots worrying about the last time another pilot shot them down that the other guy was cheating is all... :lol:

like I also said you guys even complain the ai cheats! :lol: I have taken on four and more ace mustang pilots in one substandard 109 and won, Same with the Brewser Buffalo and the Zero..

hell I have taken on four erich hartmans and won.. :lol:

I actually wouldn't mind the ai being hacked. It would be more of a challange..... 8)

Get a little better at combat flying and then worry about hackers will you..

I remember an incident where a very good fighter pilot first whipped a bunch of new pilots in a f-86 and then turned around and did the very same thing to them all in a captured mig 15

ever hear the old addage.."It isn't the dog in the fight but the fight in the dog"

Obviously not...

ahh licence the further development of the series??????????????

Show us where exactly that was ever said. I have never ever seen this. :roll:

http://www.bryanferry.com/images/iym_208.jpg

To all you EULA quoters..

ever hear that announcement at the begining of football games.

"This is national football league broadcast' Any retransmission, copying of the programs or any other uses without our written promission from the NFL is strictly forbidden."

better burn up all those illegal copies you made... :lol:

hay because of you the NFL only a made 10 billion dollars last year.. :x :D

You`re completely out of touch with reality.
The number of cheaters,even if relatively small is not the worst part.First off, you can`t tell whether one`s cheating or not.Not one of the cheating accusations could ever be proved in any IL2 forum.There can never be a consensus on that.
Few cheaters are able to ruin the game for everyone and with no current way to get rid of them they are safe to roam anywhere they want.
A working CRT=2 is a myth.You can ignore that if you want because you and your idiot supporters clearly do not want to see the facts.It supports your view and whether it is true or not is without significance for you.
It is unfair to press everyone that base their joy with this game on a level playing field concept to think that there is no cheating going on.

But haaay, you fly offline,you have your goods so ther rest of the world should get over it.

I do understand why those who respect Oleg Maddox have continually to face the disinformation campaign that goes on every IL2 forum.The facts clearly collide with modders` desired vision of total lack of control over the way the game works.
Few facts for you:

#1 changing FM is very easy

#2 the tools to change any aspect of the game are publicly available.

My only misfortune is that fogging the facts by the likes of you find masses of people unable to think logically.I and few others support the developper but it`s true we cant face the sheer numbers of dumbells standing beside you.

Like I said it is my misfortune that you can gather 100 more posts here calling me a fanatic without adding some logical facts that would make me change my mind.The facts however clearly stay on the side of the developper.
Disinformation, illogical thesis`, complete ignorance of the past experiences.




Untrue.There is nothing debatable about cracking and modifying the game against the developper.It is against the dev,it offends his laws, it is wrong.
You don`t have any measures that may change that so you twist the facts to make them suit your clearly beneficial (for you) position.

I admit that I lost my nerves few times trying to inform people of what they`re doing.The sheer amounts of BS that is being posted again and again by folks like stalkervision are worthy of a month ban.I just can`t go stating and clearing things up again and again and again.It is obvious that there are lot of uninformed folks out there who are getting misinformed daily by people who have interest in IL2 going down to the dogs.

Stalker

Its obvious you have no clue on what a hacker can do on-line. Even someone of your obvious skill could not out fight someone who spawns on your six and blows you away before you know he's there. Thats part of the reason the CFS 1 and 2 on-line community died. The same could be done to an off-line game, maybe even permently pork it, where all you could use is the original game.

FB has hundreds of aircraft, dozens of maps, and thousands of objects, all you have to bring is alittle imagination. You have this game to fly as is or you can mod all the others to your hearts content, but that isn't good enough for you. You've gotta hack this one too.

You've already told us how much better BOB WOV is than FB, so why not campaign for people to go over there were the developers welcome modders. It should be a win win. This may be part of your plan to disrupt this community and draw people away. I would expect it from you, but there was one who I respected in that community who seen fit to foster a situation that would allow mods against this developers wishes.

The Big problem with BOB2 is that there is no Online.. but here what is interesting it can be done , they need lots of help over there and they welcome the moders.

====

Here a though for the IL2 hacking.

IL2 is getting in serious crisis.. now...when the hack can't be controlled, this is when panic comes in.
Now here the thing that hackers could do to fix this huge problem.
-First is to create a PunkBuster like for Hosts ( servers )
This will change dramatically the hacking histeria for sure.
After create a 4.08H complete version of the 4.08m with all the work done with and with out the sounds ( to me many hacked sounds are bad )
New maps, new 3D planes, new 3 D cockpits, fixed maps, new textures.... basicly a new a total new game then close it for anti other hackers do not touch the FM and create new one for new added planes.
Make it some how official and mostly the PunkBuster like should be a priority.. I think many will change their opinion on this matter after this .. but right now it's a big mess a big momboola!!! IMO and i did predicted it on c6 side.

the sounds on your youtube vids weren't that bad.

Because that are mine ;) which are way way better. But due to this big problem of fear i wont share period.
something as to be done seriously now and anti cheat.. and then maybe.

I can agree with most of this Gozar... 8)

HEY 6DOF is a cheat. there your argument doesn't hold water...

Go visit ARMA site see what has happened there. Go review what happened to red baron when everyone and their brother had there own canned FM, Go look the mess CFS is in, Go look BOB WOV debacle.

If you are using mod not licensed by developer your cheater. so my 10 to 1 hold true, because there probably only 1 out of 10 not using 6DOF!. You are using tool to gain an advantage or to modify your game differently from the unmodded game you a cheat.

Truth hurts Urufu cause your comments It's easy to say you a cheat as well. Oh wait you need chart.... here ya go.

| x
| x
| x
| x
| x
|x
-----------------------

Ok, so everybody is a cheat, I'm a cheat he's a cheat everyone who can cheat will automatically cheat because cheating is fun, come cheat with us, we love being cheater, I love being called a cheater!!!!! /sarcasm

Think what you want about the damn hack but if any one of you were here and called me a cheater to my face you'd live to regret it! Just because I'm not on the high horse you are and like to fly B17's does not mean that I don't have integrety and know better than to cheat! You people sound like f$#@ng McCarthy, everones a comunist, they must be rooted out, the modders are raping our women and killing our children! Ever hear of the print-scren cheat? Thats been out there, does that mean all the respected members of the community that had keyboards with that button or had a copy of Fraps was a f@$ing cheat?! Say modders are breaking the EULA, say we ar killing the game, say we have insulted oleg, but DO NOT accuse people of cheating just because you disagree with the modding!

The User recognises that all of the rights associated with the Multimedia Product and its components (in particular the titles, computer codes, themes, characters, character names, plots, stories, dialogues, places, concepts, images, photographs, animation, videos, music and text contained in the Multimedia Product), as well as the rights relating to the trademark, royalties and copyrights, are the property of Ubi Soft and are protected by French regulations or other Laws, Treaties and international agreements concerning intellectual property.

It is not permitted:
- To make copies of the Multimedia Product,
- To operate the Multimedia Product commercially,
- To use it contrary to morality or the laws in force,
- To modify the Multimedia Product or create any derived work,
- To transmit the Multimedia Product via a telephone network or any other electronic means, except during multi-player games on authorised networks,
- To create or distribute unauthorised levels and/or scenarios,
- To decompile, reverse engineer or disassemble the Multimedia Product.




So mission makers, skinners, movie makers, Hyperlobby and the people that play there are all breaking the EULA. So thats one arguement that wont stand up to the EULA battle.

i´ve been following this thread a while and i cant help to add my 2 cents.

anyone who uses hacks (mods) in il2 - online games is a potential cheater!!

The questionable thrill from a sometimes better but generally worse sound is really not worth it.

Most of the online pilots are not superpilots, like stalkervision according to one of his last posts.

To them ( the majority ) it really makes a difference if their regular flying skill is not enough for a worse pilot with a hacked fm.

to use these hacks in offline gaming, who cares?, except the developer, could one think.

BUT: if there are offline hacks they can and will be used online.

What i really don´t understand is why some people are getting a high by destroying something good like the IL2- Online Community.

I mean: that is so really short sighted if not really, really stupid, or just sick.

i really hope that a way is found to stop the use of these hacks in online - games.

just my 2 cents

robtek

Many of these on-line guys are really paranoid in the extream. :shock: :)

I have yet to see anyone show me where a hack was used ever to cheat in on-line play. EVER!

I guess even the possible potential of that thing happening drives these guys crazy! Far more then a mod ever would. People we are talking about a game here for christ hanging on the cross sakes! :lol:

Gozar has the right idea here. Listen to him everyone. Not everyone is out to get you btw.. :)

I won't even mention FM, weapon or DM cheats. There are, however, smaller things. One for instance, is removing the bar in the 190. While this may be a historically correct thing to do, you just gave yourself an advantage that no one else will have unless they DL that hack. Same goes for 6 DOF. Thats the problem and you don't even recognize it.

I can live with nice sounds and even the AI aircraft being flyable with the original FM, even though it never should've been touched. When you start removing parts and making other modifications that give YOU the advantage, thats no better than modding the FM.

Obviously there are strong feelings raised by creation of new Mods for IL2, and the tiny but vociferous minority of online gamers feel the need to passionately support their belief in the primacy of an unmodified stock version of the game…Unfortunately though, they also feel the need to impose that belief on the large numbers of people that want to utilise the new additions to the game…as for them its not enough that they wish to remain with stock IL2 installations…they feel the need to ensure everybody else only utilises a stock IL2 installation for online compatibility.
Now because they feel so passionately about it, numerous emotive accusations are thrown into the discussion…its illegal to use the Mods, its immoral to use the Mods, Using the Mods is an insult to Oleg, Mod users are cheaters, development of Mods destroys a flight sim etc etc…
Now in the interest of balance I’d like to add my counter-arguments to the mix…

Its Illegal

This argument centres upon the fact that modifying the software is a breach of the EULA – notwithstanding the fact that the EULA is a commercial document intended to protect software publishers from financial loss through the reproduction and modification of their software in a commercial marketplace, ignoring the fact that there has never been a single instance of a software publisher taking a single user to court for modifying software they have purchased legitimately, not withstanding the fact that whole communities have grown up dedicated to modifying software for third party use…But it’s a big stick to beat the modding community with because then we can be accused of being Criminals!

Well for starters there is a big question mark over whether any EULA is enforceable in law…it breaches standard contract law in that you are not made aware of the conditions of purchase until after you have purchased the software – and typically you will have no re-dress because most computer games retailers will not refund money on a purchased product once it has been opened (to prevent piracy). Meaning that you the purchaser were coerced into agreeing to the EULA.
Secondly the EULA refers to Which means that movie makers, mission builders, skinners etc etc are all in breach of the EULA, something that I think we’ll all agree is ridiculous – no-one is going to be considered as breaching the law by creating a third party campaign and distributing it nor releasing a populated map template and releasing it…so why would it be considered illegal to create a retextured map and release it for example? The EULA makes no reference to what is considered acceptable and not acceptable in this context…simply because it was never written with the intent of preventing third party modification of legally purchased software…it was written to prevent commercial abuse, piracy and plagiarism!
Besides UBI the software publisher has a very pro-modding attitude towards the games it publishes – look at the Mod sections and discussions that exist within the official communities for Sims like LOMAC and Silent Hunter III & IV. If the publisher isn’t opposed to us modifying its software…then who else is there to tell us what we are doing is wrong?

Its Immoral

Ignoring the fact that its ridiculous to consider what I do with my copy of Il2 in the comfort of my own home a morality issue…I mean, if I kick my dog, hit my wife, steal my neighbours milk from his doorstep…that’s immoral, I really don’t consider installing an illuminated gun sight reticule a moral dilemma!
If modification of the software was considered immoral where was the hue and cry from the community when people were discussing the release of a no CD hack? Or ways of bypassing the securom copy protection on the initial Pe2 release? In fact people were tripping over themselves to find a way round these issues…So much for morality!

Its an Insult to Oleg

Well surely not as much as one as the times again and again he has been accused of Pro-German or Pro-Russian bias! Wasn’t that the reason he stopped visiting and posting at the Official UBI forums?

Mod users are cheaters

Well as far as I can see none of the Mods released so far are designed to create, uber planes, uber weapons and uber DMs, so I think there is far too much concern over this issue.
The Mods are intended for use by offliners anyway – and most of the major servers have put in place a check value to ensure that the servers cannot be joined by users of the Mod.
Besides Online cheating is an issue for online players…cheating and bad sportsmanship has existed in many forms for a long time…Flaps on a Slider, Prnt Scrn, Disconnecting, Team Killing, Shoulder Shooting, Kill Stealing etc etc…Its not something Offline players should concern themselves with…Its something for the Online community to police themselves with strong server rules and admin.
Nothing Offline players do or don’t do is going to affect what happens in the major hyperlobby servers is it?
Besides, I cannot understand why anyone would want to make the game easier for themselves anyway…surely the fun comes from the challenge! (In fact I’d love to see the Mod making planes more difficult to handle – giving more realistic quantities of Torque and making undercarriages more fragile for example) But then I’m interested in the whole combat flight simulation experience – dogfighting and air to air kills are only a small part of it for me personally – which is why I welcome something that increases immersion like the Sound Mod.


Development of Mods destroys a flight sim

The truth is, nearly all popular Flight Simulators have been heavily modified by third part communities and in every instance it has improved the game, extended its usable life and created a great deal of interest and enthusiasm amongst the users…Look at the evidence
Falcon 4 – heavily modded and yet a game that was released in 1999 is still going strong today, EAW modded to within an inch of its life and then some…and yet was by far the most popular World War 2 flight sim prior to the release of IL2, Janes F/A18 – the demise of Janes meant the game was dropped almost straight after release…but hard work by a dedicated community (Team Super Hornet) has created a game far beyond what was initially released…New theatres, new graphics, Track IR functionality, new cockpits etc etc. LOMAC – look at some of the fantastic mods that are being released for that game at the moment. Enemy Engaged! Probably the most dedicated modding community of all – have created a Sim that is so good that the modded EECH is far better than the newly published EECH2! So if none of these flight simulators have been destroyed by user mods…then why should IL2 be?

Jason you are the most level headed rational person I have ever had the pleasure of reading a post from. You make up for the long list of extreamest and selfish on-liners that believe Il-2 is their own personal property and are willing to say anything and do anything to keep it that way. Keep up all the good work buddy! 8) Stalker

You raise some interesting points in your post, and I don't have the time to comment on all of them. However, I don't agree with your opinion that because the EULA makes no reference to which files can be modded, then *all* the files can be modded.

It's a question of acquiesecnce. The EULA prevents the purchaser from modding files, but because certain files (skins, speech, missions) etc. are not encrypted, and becuse no-one has tried to prevent people from creating missions, skins etc in the 6 or so years that IL2 has been out, then it can be argued that the owner, has effectively acquiesced to us making thses modifications.

The .SFS files on the other hand are encrypted. That is a clear statement of intent from the owner that they do not wish anyone to hack these files, and to do so would be a breach of the EULA.

As a strictly offliner, the issue doesn't really affect me, but for what it's worth I chose not to install any of the mods.

As to the other points, I'll leave it to other people to comment.

Encrypted... :D The "encription" everyone always raves about and points to as some kind of proof oleg never wanted the game tampered with turns out was about as secure as a walmart suitcase lock... :lol:

I'll buy that lock anytime it took 5 years to break..... :P

Ok, to prove that I'm not trying to win for one side or the other, simply to correct falshoods and call for sanity; the modders need to stop denying that oleg does not want the mods. I don't think it's as bad as everyone makes out and I don't think oleg would hate every mod to come out, but to say that it's ok because the ecryption was easy to break is just as retarded as suggesting that every mod user is a cheat.

:D I believe it was because people were truly expecting it to be a lot more difficult then it really was and tried all kinds of compllicated solutions on it before they tried the most simple ones. Foolish people, you always try the easiest stuff first... :)

No one is saying that. Many of you guys just think Il-2 is so worth it's weight in gold that you inflated it's value a million times over is all. Oleg was already working on another sim engine even as his team was finishing this one up. If you all hadn't just kept demanding more and more from this one all the time I am sure SOW would have been out by now... :P

A clear case who is making the issue an offline vs online then.Offline/online gaming is not connected to the obvious case which is breaking into the code.Whoever does that without developpers` agreement is guilty of offending his personal laws as you only buy the license to use the game.Saying that only online pilots oppose the mods is simply a lie which fits your disinformation campaign.It is so easy to demonise anyone who really cares for the game or simply respects Oleg Maddox`s personal laws.There has been some threads on the ubi boards which features also offliners opposing the mods.


Sorry, a fact should never called a belief.My tools in my replies are facts you can`t deny.You can only fog them with splitting hair methods in hoping that the majority will intimidate those who respect the creator and hold a strong desire in integrating the whole IL2 community.





Dura lex,sed lex as they say.If your country respects the international agreements than the EULA is a part of it.If you are a citizen of such a country then you are obliged to repect the law rightfully accepted and enforced by your government.The people who make the mods fit in the same cathegory as the hackers who cracked the code.An illegal addition to the game presents no legal value and offends developper`s laws.

This is not a case of crossing on the red light.This is a case of stealing one`s intellectual property.A clear case that is not debatable.



You ,as a citizen of a country that has agreed to respect and enforce the law, are obliged to proceed by the letter of law.Decision whether some law is right or wrong does not belong to you.There are special bodies in every country that decide.As a citizen that is obliged to follow the law you can sue the law as against human/citizen laws and your rightful bodies will decide accordingly.



There is a big difference.The developper does not oppose creating missions/campaigns/skins/3rd party utilities.Also, since a long time those utilities have been hosted by the UBI site meaning that they agree on suhc policy.The same with the nocd crack that you kiddies have been unable to prove.Targ posted the link to the UBI site which hosts the nocd crack.That means that the developper as much as the producer agrees on hosting and apreading all those utilities.



I`ve had a good laugh over this.

Simple. The above games have not been modified through cracking the code and moreover releasing it to the public.The above games are though to be open for modding from the start.That puts them in a whole different cathegory than IL2 Sturmovik : 1946.You are completely off the base concluding that UBI is all for a modding section for IL2.

Go ahead and give it a go lol



Sorry,too much simplyfing here.I can`t even begin to laugh at your shortsightness and complete lack of perception of your doings.
Read my above replies 100 times,maybe you can understand it then.


See above.You can contact Targ too.

The morality issue is your personal case.If you spit in Oleg Maddox`s face then you`re simply an asshole.He worked on the sim for 5 years,he added tons of stuff for free.He also wanted to give the game to closed modder community.I hope I`m clear enough for you.




Completely off base here.I could call Oleg an idiot and he would ignore it or not,depends on him.That is however complely different from offending his personal laws, breaking into his creation without his agreement lastly telling that this all is his fault.I`d think that it is so clear to understand that I keep having doubts whether you know that you`re making an idiot out of yourself here.


The only opinion that counts in this case is the developper`s.He decides what is done with his creation.He said that he does not agree on it.He has voiced his opinion on the closed code concept many times before.



Good intentions go looong way and end up stirring much BS.Mods are easily usable also online.CRT=2 does not work.
But I know you don`t like such facts.




Great, before it was all good.Then someone decides to crack the code and release it to a public of half intelligent kids who,a s this thread shows, would do anything just to suit their endless needs.The mod thing is more of "those who are able to enjoy the vanilla game (300 flyables sic!!!) vs those who don`t knon how to find a way to have fun with this game".
You would think that in the past, 50 flyables was enough, then 100, then 300 in the end.But nope, kiddies want more and, as long as the Police don`t knock at their door, happily spit in the face of it`s creator.

Besides, a changed FM/DM is a whole new calibre of cheat, really not comparable with those listed.As long as players had equal FM/DM, everything else was a small glitch.

Oh yeah and you don`t give a @@@@ too either. Crack the code, kill online community and online play and let them deal with it.No punkbuster apps with it, just "online players should deal with it" quote.
Thanks!


Correction, it affects everyone.


Great, you`re such a sport. Let`s make a deal.You pay me 10000 buck for every single case of online cheating if you`re so sure about it.



Apples and oranges, as in every pro modding post.Completely off base, ignoring the past experiences with killing online play in CFS,ignoring all the differences between listed games and IL2.Wothless drivel aimed to misinform folks.


Well?Iguess that`s it then?All your arguments out with the trash. :lol:

If you guys are all hopped up on defending codes try this one. Means as much as your silly rational.. :lol:

http://www.randomhouse.com/doubleday.../index-utc.php

people and companies break manafacture's codes all the time. If it was so illegal to modify the game the code wouldn't even have to exist now would it? :) Obviously the software engine is none to special either because it was never patented that I know of.. :roll:

a perfect example is performance and aftermarket car part business as I have pointed out before. These software programs truly cost a mint to develop yet not one car company says squat about them being broke and modified and even sold. I wonder why not? Why because they didn't have a super legal EULA on it of course! :lol: :lol: :lol:

Stalker, you really do no real good to your cause. Your replies have zero insight and are that of a teenager.

The main concern is that some of these mods will find their way into online gaming. As I stated before, the sounds and flyable AI aircraft may not impose any advantage, however, when someone has 6 DOF or removed parts from a cockpit so they can see better and the others can't, that is a cheat.

It can't get any more simple than that. I could compare it to counterstrike and people using hack/mods to see through walls. It is NO different.

Maybe this will help. From the man who made the game.

Oleg Maddox



Joined: 03 Oct 2007
Posts: 18


PostPosted: Thu Nov 29, 2007 1:26 pm Post subject: Reply with quote
Abbeville-Boy wrote:
"Mr. Maddox
Could you state your feeling on the hack mod issue. i and others would like to know your thought's on this and what it means for the future"


I personally hate any hack that may damage fair online gameplay.



http://forum.1cpublishing.eu/viewtop...=191&start=405

Actually I was thinking exactly the very same thing about your post the only difference is I'm the one who is right..

I can tell, you keep referring to cars in a sim forum. Way to go brains. lol No one really takes you seriously. You lack any form of maturity in anything you type in here. :)

Your constant pathetic whining reminds me of a three year old girl who's favorite dolly got broke and now wants someone to fix it.... :roll:

You really don't have a clue do you...? Talk of maturity from a child who obviously has nothing more to his life then worrying about cheating in on-line play.. :roll:

defend your precious little toy till another toy comes out and you soon forget about the one that got broke.. :lol:

One thing i'll agree with Carguy on is,
Of course it isn't..people are regularly stopped and fined for crossing red lights...no-one has ever been stopped and fined for modifying their own legally purchased software!

Jason you have way to many brain cells for these fools to ever understand but maybe just maybe a little of your wisdom will rub off on a few of these clueless wonders by reverse osmosis... :lol:

That`s also what I`m talking about.Some epople won`t realise the meaning of their doings until someone comes and punches it into their heads. :x

well damn I ain't crossing on a red light no more! :lol:

Yup, the ugly claws UBIzoo have reached this forum too :roll: :(


EVGENY!!!!!!

I`d like to see Evgeny work against Oleg :lol:

I figured maybe now that the Ubi mods totaly screwed up maybe Evgeny will have some rational reasoning here.

Go Evgeny! :lol:

That's because the mods are all anti-mod and close down every post on this subject they happen not to approve of being totally bias as it were. The mark of a true democrat! :lol: