SolidWorks
 

G’day All

I am a SolidWorks (SW) user, and I’d like to try and contribute in some small way, as I understand it a model created in SW can be exported in a VRML format and the saved as a STL file and then imported to say 3ds Max.

I did a quick experiment using a surface model to see how a low resolution basic shape (a crude Luftmine shape) created using SW would translate into poly count at output, in this case it came out at 300 Tri’s.

Low res' SW model
https://scontent-syd1-1.xx.fbcdn.net...32&oe=5727925F

VRML/SLT model
https://fbcdn-sphotos-c-a.akamaihd.n...a217c9e21cb6f7


So my basic question is can a model that I can create in SW be of any use to a 3ds Max user and can said user reduce the poly count further if needed, because basic stuff like this take mere minutes to do in SW.

hard to say right now .. it's must be checked ... but i think yes ..... and once again "But" ... there is a difference between that two progs ... plus i don't know is it possible to make uwv maping in solid?

G'day Sita

SolidWorks apparently uses UV mapping, not UWV mapping, but in my line of work custom skinning is not a requirement so i know very little about doing this.

From my JWWIIF modding days I know that the 3d modelling is more or less the easy part, and that wrapping the skins over the objects can be a tedious and at times frustrating affair, not to mention a real hour eater.

My aim was just to see if i could create surface objects (not solids) in SW as a way to possibly help out by taking on some of the modelling load, I would still be expecting that the mapping and any assembly would be done outside of SW in the final software.

I'm happy to do experiments with solid works to see if it can be of any benefit as a 3d tool, to the modelling community, maybe if I had some kind of simple test subject as a project to evaluate its worth, again I'm happy to give it go.

here is the thing ...

you can made 3d model at 5 minutes ... but for us ... if we talking about 3d modeling for Il2 1946 it's only first step ... and most easest step ..

short note about work process

1. at first you made 3d model of object ... in max detalisation ( under humble Il2 limits)
aka Lod00
2. need made mapping for it ...
3. make skin ...
4. need made three more models ... Lod01 Lod02 Lod03 .... ( plus yLod00 and yLod01 for shadow and collision mesh )

and Lod01 Lod02 Lod03 makes from finished painted ( or good mapped at least)
Lod00 by simplifying the model without losing maping

in that light of that ... clean 3d model without skin(maping) its just first step ...

This source is somewhat incomplete, but gives you the basics of what's needed to model an IL2 plane.

http://www.smsp.org/il2/3d_modeling_bible/

The various IL2 modding sites will have more details.

I'm not sure what LoD models are needed for a 3D object, probably far less than for a plane since they're low-poly already.

These days, most 3D animation programs (Maya, 3DS Max, Blender) are pretty good about providing "unwrapping" functions allowing you to easily skin an object, although it is still time consuming and requires a fair bit of artistic skill to make a skin look right.

Animating the moving parts and properly setting up "hooks" for breaking parts and various effects (lights, smoke, fire) is also quite time consuming.

For planes and other objects with moving parts, I'd be more worried about how the animations translate from one program to another. From what I've read, often times animated parts don't transfer, or don't transfer properly, from one program to the next.

Ideally, an IL2 modder has access to 3DS Max, otherwise, all you can do is make the various models, and possibly skins, and then hand off your work to someone with 3DS Max for animation.

The good news is that if you're a student or associated with an educational institution, you can get a license for free:

http://www.autodesk.com/education/free-software/3ds-max

(FWIW, I've played around with all these programs, but my critical lack of artistic talent keeps me from making anything that doesn't look like it's made from Lego blocks.)

lods are a requirement of il2 engine ... and in most cases for lod01/02/03 used lod00 .... and it's not good ...

Pursuivant/Sita

As mentioned early on I'm fully aware from past experience that the 3d modelling of parts is more or less the easy bit, and that the real work lies in the assemblies, animation and textures, not to mention all the LOD work.

Initially I was talking more along the lines of assisting with with doing churn type work, small objects or knobs, buttons, levers, etc.

However, seeing as I have two students (my kids) at home, I may as well take a look at getting 3ds-Max (if the free license offer also applies to Australia) and have a play and see how far I get.

I've read through the modeling bible a few times now, usually managing to dissuade myself from taking it any further, with real life and time always being limiting factors, but what to loose giving it a go, lets see if I pick myself something small to do and then just see what happens.

For start, what about some cockpits for planes that do not need too much modifications?
Like Ju-88C6, Bf-110C4, B-25C,G,H
If I understand correctly, cockpits do not need complex lods, and separate mappings and skins.
And maybe later, (and if possible), finish He-177 missing gunner's positions?

Cockpit design is a mystery not discussed in the"Bible ". I have no idea what the polygon counts are or how you do animated gauges.

Also, lack of 3 view drawings for crew stations means you need really good artistic skills to get perspective right.

My ignorant guess is that it's the hardest part of modeling, even if Sita makes it look easy!

For a new modeler not working with 3DS Max my guess is that static ground objects, like buildings, are the easiest objects to contribute. DT members please correct me if I'm wrong.

to me most easy work with cockpit ... work with external model is terify me ... all these lods/caps/hooks ... all that smal thing which don't see to eye when you play ....


good point ... but not everybody love do that stuff ... but it's need... for new map or something else ...

for example now we have long list of British hangars which will be use on new map ...
also good training for modeler is ordnance ... bombs rockets and other ....

but if someone want to make a pit for some unflyable at that moment plane in il2 ... it's always welcome ...

for example for bomber pit limit for poly was some about 10k poly ....
but not every time you can get in it ... for example Nac pit of Il4 is more ... some about 13500 or 14000 ....

you can over limits ... but only if it is justified ... and no other way ... but again you must try hard to make it low
less poly is better ...

and few words about limts/requare ..... a lot of for that work ... for example ... every mesh must have names ... simple and logical ... there whole system for it .... needles have special name ... other mesh other name ... and more ... all meshes must reset x-form ... all static meshes must set at 0.0.0 coodrinate ....

and other and other ..... all that needs to simplify life for person who will be make export for model ... those person are rare now ....
i mean if you made model for il2 you must make it at 100% and be prepare to fix some thing ... because person which possibly will make export for it don't have a time to reworking it .... or fix it ...

Anyone willing to do such objects, and MTO buildings too, is welcomed :)

Waiting for my son to get his Uni/TAFE student card, then I'll attempt to get hold of the 3ds Max EDU edition.

Buildings and ordnance is something I think I could give a go, once I get the software and have had a chance to take look at it, no promises mind you.

@ Sia, i have offered you guys my 3D skills long time ago, and send you even my reference work.

It`s up to you to move now ;)

really? when? some holes in my memory ... sorry ...

Found it: http://forum.1cpublishing.eu/showthread.php?t=40475

Would you accept suggestions? :D

holy cow... that's looking nice!)

I have some more updated pics and model, what you see in that old topic are old pics of an old model.

And yes I accept also suggestions .... my suggestion is ... I build an amo crate for you ;)

sorry to hijack this topic

So, static objects need Lod00, Lod01, Lod02, Lod03 models.

Do they also need shadow model and "dead" Lod00, etc. meshes?

What are the recommended maximum polygon limits?

What are the size limits on skin textures?

@Pursuivant,

Do you know this:
http://www.smsp.org/il2/3d_modeling_bible/index.html

The IL2 modeling bible has info on creating "surface objects" here:

http://www.smsp.org/il2/3d_modeling_...ceobjects.html

But, it's unofficial, and there is no information about designing buildings or similar objects - just vehicles. More info would be helpful.

I can't make airplanes, but I can do buildings - if I can figure out how to get the skins to look right.

it came only with expirience)

Well there has been a model mapping issue that has bugged me for a long, long time, it is to do with the mapping of the upper halves of the cannon pods for the Do335 V13. For the most part mapping issues can generally be resolved through clever manipulation of the publicly accessible skins, however in this case the issue can only be solved at the mapping level, I was able to tweak out all the other mapping issues on this skin but there is just no way to tweak out this one.

This is caused by having two differently placed source locations for the mapping of the upper gun pods resulting in each having asymmetric panelling details.
(the lower portions of the pods do not have this issue as they are sourced from the same two locations of the underside of the rear fuselage, from memory).

The chosen locations also tend to create difficulties with matchups of custom paint schemes.

In the following image (1.) you can see on this portion of the skin (tweaked default skin by the way) where the mapping is currently sourced from (Yellow and Green), while the area that I've outlined in red would seem to be a far better candidate for this mapping. I say this because in all the skins that I have looked at this area seems to have the most consistent match regardless of the paint scheme type that has been applied.

1. Portion of skin as seen in Photoshop

https://scontent-lax3-1.xx.fbcdn.net...40629895_o.jpg

2. This is how said skin relates to the model as when seen in the loading screen

https://scontent-lax3-1.xx.fbcdn.net...17716350_o.jpg

Now you're probably wondering how any of the above relates to this particular thread, well any competent modeller could solve this in a matter of minutes, and if a TD member (or anyone else for that matter) would like to fix it then that would be great, however this may also be an excellent exercise for a novice to learn how mapping is related to a model, as it would not require any 3D remodelling or even any changes to the existing default or custom skins to correct.

When I finally do get hold of 3ds Max (I still have to wait for my son to get his student enrollment finalised, which could be another 2 or 4 weeks) I could take a look at doing it myself.

Can create stuffs for Il2 using blender?

I'm just curious, because I'm student for web design and 3d modelling (a bit), but would like to know how to work for video game...

i think yes ... but in meshes in 3d max and blender present some difference i mean difference in polycount system ... i may be wrong ... but i saw how one of my friend work in blender ... and afrter it model was impoted in 3d max... and there was more poly that it was shown i blender ...

neverthenless - all import in il2 is doing from 3d max ... i see two way... 1. work in 3d max ... 2. work in blender .. and in final stade imort model to 3d max and checked it there ...

yes .... but only he have that model ... for that need extract it from il ... properly convert in format which 3dmax can use .. and need that what you discribe not only for lod00 ... i think need make similar actions with lod01 and may be lod02 ....

it's not that hard ... if you have model/tools/wish/expirience ...

that's why i love make something new... it's always more interesting ... but it's only my opinion ... i know people which love reworking something already exist

I find the biggest issue when working on pre-existing CAD models is trying to figure out how the original creator built it, in many cases the models that I have had to rework lack even most basic of design intent, assembled with no relationship to the origin or to other assembly components, things of major importance in the SolidWorks environment.

From that aspect I can see why designing from the start can have it's appeal.

Is there a "wish list" of building/ground objects DT would like for its maps?

I will open a different thread with the list and references for them

Cool