More twin Engine flyables in IL-2 1946
 

Hello all. I have been playing IL-2 since 2001. ts a great game and every patch by team Daidalos makes it better.

Why isnt there a flyable ME-210 or the early me-110's in game. I know four engine bombers take up a lot of time to mod and code. twin engine planes take more time then single seat aircraft. i thank the team should focus on adding more twin engine planes(me-210,early me-110's, ju-88 night fighters , maybe the TU-2) and (p-61 night fighters as well. Is there any way to speed things up to get to 4.14M sooner like donations and research . I can't mod or code anything. Also a lot of people are saying go back and re work some of the older models in game both outside and the interior . I say leave it as is. and focus on new material. maybe one day we could have a flyable b-29 i know it would take years to do the interior.


Thanks for all you guys do to keep this game going after all these years!

Good questions.

Short unofficial answers:

Me-210 - DT intends to make all the planes in the game flyable. But, they're a very small team, they have a lot to do, and there are a lot of aircraft to do!

Early model Bf-110 - The planes of 1939-40 have never been the focus of IL2, and until a few years ago, modelers have been discouraged from making them. There's no reason why they can't be made, however.

DT has added a number of twin-engined planes to the game over the years, notably the Ki-45, and several new versions of Ju-88. There's also a good chance that we'll eventually get a flyable Bf-110G-4 night fighter.

The massive (literally, years of work) B-24D project was the work of two remarkably talented outside developers - Monguse & Buster Dee. Likewise, the He-177 also represented the work of outsiders. It just happened that the 4.13 patch was when those projects got released.

Sadly, no vehicle that Northrop-Grumman claims intellectual property rights to can be included in the game. That means no P-61 for us :( .

http://forum.1cpublishing.eu/showthread.php?t=192323

DT can't take donations. But, if you want you can help make the He-177 Grief become flyable by sending money here:

https://sites.google.com/site/he177a3r2greif/

If you speak a foreign language, have access to unusual resources (e.g., existing aircraft, rare technical manuals), or have detailed technical or historical knowledge, then offers of research assistance might be helpful.

e.g.

http://forum.1cpublishing.eu/showthread.php?t=229392

What you can do in the meantime is design missions and campaigns, and perhaps make skins, especially for the less popular aircraft. If they're good enough, you can sent them to DT for inclusion in a later patch. In any case, Mission4 Today will take anything that's halfway decent:

http://www.mission4today.com/

Finally, play the game - especially online - and get your friends to play it. Keeping this wonderful old game alive depends on a dedicated user community.

Would high res pictures of cockpits help? From books?

I take it you don't use mods, all the planes you mentioned are flyable even the B29. :neutral: http://i57.tinypic.com/34hylb7.jpg

Yes, we definitely need a few more flyable twin engine planes. One problem, time. Its a massive work to model a cockpit. So in my opinion, there arent too many planes that could be made in a reasonable time:

1, more He-111 variants, probably this would be the easiest, because Yt2 (TD member) already made a beautiful mod, that not only adds more, but corrects the faults of original models.
2, B-25C. I think it should be easy too, even gunner positions.
3, Do-217K/M, also a mod, fairly complete, but of course needs more detail. This plane would be really interesting to have
4, Bf-110C4, maybe modifying G2 cockpit?
5, B-25G/H. Turrets could be adopted straight from B-25C and H, question is cockpit. Dont know how different compared to C/H variants...
6, Ju-88C6. Much could be used from A4 pit, it mainly needs a new instrument panel, and some weapons inside, like MG FF and MG 17s
7, Beaufighter. Earlier british variants would be sweet! Probably it could be modified from the Mk.21

gunner stations too? also what mod is that.

Yes all gunner stations playable and mod is B29 flyable cockpit with B29 upgrade mod applied.:)

It depends. Though the miracles of cloud computing, scanners, and lax copyright law enforcement many relevant books have already been scanned.

But, if you've got really obscure stuff, then it couldn't hurt to ask.

The only problem is figuring out how cockpits were altered between variants!

I believe that the B-25 cockpit layout didn't change that much (other than things like adding or removing gun sights). Top turret position was the same (Bendix turret). Waist gunner stations not present, so don't need to be modeled.

Tail gun position was different. Bombardier & nose gunner stations would need to be modeled.

It would need a new model and crew station, but it would be interesting to see a B-25C with the ventral turret.

From DT's point of view, this plane would need to be made from scratch unless the modder was willing to donate their work to the cause and that work was up to DT's quality standards. Likely an entirely new project!

I believe that the Bf-110C had a slightly different instrument panel. Basically, a new project. But, I also believe that the gunner's station didn't' change that much between marks.

While it would be a new project that would require a modified model & cockpit, and new skins, I'd be interested in seeing a Bf-110D variant.

Allegedly, the B-25G was identical to the B-25C aft of the nose. That makes a flyable B-25C a priority, since it would simplify work on the B-25G.

Or not. There were a lot of production changes in the Mk 21 from other variants. That said, the Beaufighter MkIc & Mk X are necessary parts of any Mediterranean/Italian campaign.

Then, there's the venerable Blenheim Mk I & IV which have been in the game from the very beginning. Making those planes flyable would give both the FAF & RAF two early-war bombers.

I've flown this mod and I'm unimpressed with the modeling of the fire control stations.

Getting the defensive gunnery systems of the B-29 right will be a big task, and I'm not sure that IL2 is up to the job.

In addition to the complexities of modeling the gunner stations with their targeting sights, you also need to recreate the system that allowed gunners to hand off control of the various turrets to each other. By comparison, modeling the cockpit and bombardier positions is easy!

Boulton Paul Defiant?

Not sure what you mean by this. Most of our effort was under our TD membership. Outside Developer sounds a little too professional ;)

My mistake. I didn't realize that you guys were officially part of DT.

In any case, the B-24D stands as one of the finest examples of a flyable aircraft in the game. Certainly professional quality, even if you call yourselves amateurs!

If somebody builds it, sure, but it doesn't seem likely.

There weren't a lot of Defiants built, they only equipped a few squadrons, they were an operational failure during daylight operations, and they were mostly used for the one time period and in the one theater which IL2 ignores - 1939-40 Western Front.

So, not exactly a priority to get into the game.

That said, I've got a soft spot for the Defiant, and for the P.94 (the Defiant variant with turret removed and guns in the wings).

The Defiant did quite well as a night fighter, and allegedly could give a good account in fighter vs. fighter combat if flown using the proper defensive tactics.

The P.94 was almost as fast as the Spitfire, but not quite as maneuverable. It would have been an interesting "compromise" between the Hurricane & Spitfire in terms of how it fought & flew. It would make a fascinating "what-if" airplane to add to the game.

I wouldn't call Monguse an amateur; he might stop sorting me out. Amateur works for me though ;)

As to the Defiant, it got a new lease on life as a night fighter (not sure if with radar), and I believe it was one of the aircraft used to create the D-Day diversions. I think it was equipped with some kind of spoof or ECCM gear. Not very exciting for fighter pilot scraps. The gear probably displaced the gunner. I think the turret also use in other aircraft--Halifax and some British Liberator II?

Whats in store for the next update. i have a lot of books with good pics and diagrams of the b-17,b-29,sb2c-5,pbm-5 mariner,meteor jet british, also a lot of gunner stations pics.

http://forum.warthunder.com/index.ph...light-manuals/ not my website but good info.

The most extensive use of the Defiant, Henley and Skua was as target tugs towing drogues for trainee pilots to shoot at. These were not front line duties, but they were very important, and may have been significant in the achievement of allied air superiority in the late years of the war.

The Defiant Mk.II night fighter, with turret and AI Mk. IV Airborne Interception radar, was the most effective British night fighter during the "Winter Blitz" German night bombing campaign of 1940-41, and over 200 Mk. IIs were built.

The turret allowed the Defiant to attack from below, just like the later German "schrage musik" gun installations.

In many ways, the Defiant was like the Bf-110 - quite good in its intended role as bomber interceptor, but dead meat in a fight with a competently flown single-seat fighter.

It was withdrawn from frontline service in 1943, but after it was phased out as a night fighter it was used for ECM & ECCM duties.

Boulton Paul produced a number of different turrets. I'm not sure how much they differed from each other.

I repeat, the main use of the Defiant was not in combat, it was as a target tug for training.

There were 1060 Defiants built, most of them were built as dedicated tugs, and most survivors of earlier versions were converted to tugs.

It would IMHO be a more useful thing to have an AI target tug version of the Defiant (or a Henley or Skua) for training in the sim than to have a flyable barely used fighter version.

Saying that the Defiant night-fighter was the most effective British night-fighter of the winter 1940-1941 is a condemnation of the British night-fighting effort of that period, not a vindication of the Defiant (though I'm sure the crews did their best with what they had), it was designed as a day interceptor of unescorted bombers, but the German bombers weren't unescorted.

I agree that a what-if forward gunned Defiant would have probably been a useful fighter in the early war, but unfortunately it never happened as a squadron aircraft.

Defiant or not, an AI target tug version of any plane (existing or new) would be a very useful training tool for eternal newbies like me... :grin:

???

IL2 already gives you the opportunity for far more realistic gunnery training than any WW2 pilot ever received.

Just set up a QMB mission with the targets of your choice as friendly planes, give yourself unlimited ammo, and blast away.

If you want to get a bit more complex, set up a mission in the FMB where you've got an AI plane towing a glider and try to shoot down the glider (very difficult if you're not using cannons) without shooting the tow plane.

If you want something a bit more challenging, set up a bunch of enemy planes in the QMB. If you want to make things easy for yourself, give them empty loadouts and/or rookie AI.

In any case, you can keep track of your hit percentage from the appropriate screen in the QMB, and can keep track of your hits in real time using Arcade mode.

Windsock style gunnery targets were with best substitute available for actual targets, but they weren't very good.

Tow planes were typically slower than combat aircraft, they could never be as maneuverable, and the risk of hitting the tow plane prevented gunnery students from attacking the target drogue from certain angles (like 6 o'clock level, which is pretty much your preferred deflection angle for most attacks).

Air forces that could afford it tried to use remote controlled drone targets, or esoteric aircraft like the P-63 "Pinball."

Air forces on a budget learned that the closest thing to effective combat gunnery training was to attempt to shoot the shadow of a maneuvering aircraft as it moved across the ground. But, this required that training take place close to the ground (dangerous for rookie pilots) and limited training to sunny days.

Given the time and effort required to develop new planes for IL2, I'd vastly prefer that TD or outside developers concentrate on combat types.

why are all the planes from the IL-2 mods are not in The Team Daidalos updates. There are alot of planes in the other mods. somebody did a ME-410 cockpit already and a few other planes too.

Because their quality isnt good enough. Modeling an accurate and detailed cockpit is very hard. Again, only a few planes would be possible within reasonable time:

Most of those tend to be half finished with many errors both modelling and in programming.

TD focuses on finished products, quality, and stability whereas the mod packs tend to be less focused on those but they are rapidly updated and they get things to a "almost good enough" stage so that people can play around with them.

It means going slower but also maintaining a relatively consistent product.

In addition to the reasons that Icefire mentioned, DT doesn't reach out to modders. Instead, it's up to modders to contact DT and work with them.

I forget where I saw it, but at some point I recall members of TD saying that the Me-410 mod (at least the AI aircraft, if not the cockpit) was up to their standards, and they'd be willing to have it in the official game if the creator contacted them. So far, that hasn't happened.

In a few cases, there have been projects that started out as collaborations between outside developers and DT, but went off the rails. For example, the Dewoitine D.520 was originally developed with DT's blessing, but the creator refused to reduce the model's polygon count to acceptable levels, so it ultimately got released as a mod.

A flyable B-25 Mitchell would be a great addition, especially any of the gunship models. Even the C and D models were field modded with additional machine guns in the nose for ground strafing. One of my favorite books "Air Combat at 20 Feet" tells the story of Pilot Middlebrook and his early model strafers over New Guinea, which we now have a great map NBNG to fly over. Gunships played a big role in NG as "America's sturmovik."

Well, we have a B-25, the J version. But indeed, it would be nice to have other variants, especially the C, and also the "other" J with solid nose. That would need only some external model changes only.

A field modified B25J would require just addition of fixed guns in the nose (4, 5 or 8 can be seen in pictures), removal of bombsight and bombardier position, and painting over part or all of the transparent nose panels. Some changes in damage model would be probably required, considering also the possible addition of internal armour plates to protect pilots from ground fire.

Possibly it would be easier to model a completely new, solid nose, but then also external armour plates around cockpit would be needed.
Finally, variations in windshield can be seen on all strafer variants.

So these solid nosed B-25J variants were all field mods? I didnt know that.

http://planesandchoppers.com.s3.amazonaws.com/9841.jpg

This is a modern restoration, of unknown origin and accuracy. If correctly restored, this looks like a factory built “solid nose”, with external armour plate on cockpit sides, but lacking the four side-mounted guns and armoured windshield. You can see the armour plate just below side window.
If you browse online, you can easily find pictures of field modified B25. If the guns are 4 or 5, it’s a field mod. If the guns are 8, look for the overpainted transparent nose panels and a different nose contour, of a little less rounded shape. At least, this is AFAIK, but there’s probably more.
The interesting thing is that field mod could be simpler to model, being equally good for NG campaign or missions.

I wonder if it is possible to handle the various B-25 field mods as loadout options, rather than new models. That would simplify things.

Is it possible to add things like supplemental armor plates as loadout options?

I think it wouldnt be too hard to make a factory built "solid nosed" B-25J. Definitely better option than a reskinned "field mod". Armor plates around the cockpit, and additional guns will need to be modeled either way, so modifying the nose is really not too much.

I still think that besides more He-111 variants (YT2's mod, which is complete), the B-25 would be the easiest plane to add more variants.
B-25J with solid nose: Described above
B-25C: pilot's cockpit may need slight modifications. Upper turret->straight from B-25J. Bombardier's cockpit->straight from B-25J. Ventral turret->simple periscope view, like in Pe-2
B-25G: cockpit and gun positions from C
B-25H: cockpit and gun positions from J.

There are some A-20 variants which would be easy to add to the game as well.

A-20C Soviet Lend-Lease - A-20C with Soviet guns and the UTK-1 turret from the IL-4.

Boston IIIa - A-20C with British instruments, equipment, guns & ordinance loadouts.

A-20G-1 - Use the A-20C as a base, but with the A-20G's nose, and with 2 20mm cannons and 2 .30 caliber MG replacing the standard A-20G forward armament. Use the engines of the A-20G. This variant was mostly used by the USSR.

A-20H - Identical to the late model A-20G but with uprated engines.

P-70A-1 - A-20C with solid nose and 4 20mm cannons. Remove the bombardier/nose gunner position, add radar, paint over the glazing on the nose and add cannon muzzles. Add flame dampers to the engine exhausts.

There were many other A-20 variants, many which served in the RAF - as bombers, attack aircraft, night intruders and night fighters.

most likely ...

Good to hear.

It's likely that the Soviet A-20C just used USSR ordinance loadouts, since it doesn't appear that the US supplied bombs via Lend-Lease.

You could also name the Soviet-modified A-20C variant "A-20C USSR Boston" since A-20s in USSR service were called "Bostons" - after the shipment of Boston III bombers sent to the USSR by the British in 1941.

Another idea:

Soviet Lend-Lease A-20G-20-DO - Many A-20G in Soviet service had their Martin turrets replaced by UTK-1 turrets. Just swap turrets and just include Soviet ordinance loadouts.

The other A-20 variant that would be very easy to get into the game would be the A-20H. No modeling is needed, just a tweak to the FM to reflect the slightly more powerful engines.

If you wanted to get a bit fancier:

Soviet Lend-Lease A-20G-1: The Soviets got almost all of the 200 aircraft included in the first A-20G production bloc. Replace 2 .50 caliber nose MG with 20mm M2 cannon (possibly Soviet 20mm cannon). Rework nose slightly to show longer cannon barrels. Substitute the UTK-1 turret for the existing Martin turret. Use Soviet ordinance loadouts.

Great, thank you.

VVS applied many field mods to the Havoc. Browsing around is easy to find transparent panels applied to solid nose A20s, more windows behind the turret (for a navigator, as there is an astrodome), a rack for a torpedo on the left fuselage side, obliquely mounted cannons firing downward for strafing, heavy UB machine gun in the ventral hatch position, four men crew, radar antennae and the list goes on. One wonders why Russians used so much ingenuity and creativity on a single type. The best answer probably is: Because it was possible, as the A20-Boston was easily adaptable and tolerant of modifications.

I’m not requesting all these variants, of course.

more german planes like bf110 me210 me410 ju188 and the yt2's he111

What about some early P-38 versions???

Three engines
 

How about the Ju-52 with the possibility to carry other players as passenger. With that option this Flight Simulator will be the only one to have this advantage. And even jump with parachutes.

Please make the Sukhoi Su-2 flyable.

Thank you

I would like to see Gibbage's Catalina finished. I believe TD has the files.

There are a number of Bf-110 variants that were produced in numbers but which aren't in the game. It might be possible to include some of them with just FM or DM tweaks. And, of course, it would be nice to have the Bf-110C-4 and Bf-110C-4/B flyable.

For Bf-110s which make most sense to add to the game, I'd choose the Bf-110C-7, the Bf-110E-1, the Bf-110D-2, and the Bf-110F-2. Of the lot, the Bf-110C-7 is probably the easiest since it probably had a cockpit identical to the C-4 or C-4/B variants which are already in the game.

The Bf-110G-4 is "in the works."

The Me-210 is already in the game, but could be made flyable. Both major variants are already modeled.

The Me-410 and Ju-188 would be new projects.

I'd just like to see the existing P-38s reworked with a less atrocious damage model and non-mirrored skins.

For new variants, it wouldn't be that hard to add the P-38H. The only major change would be the appearance of the engine nacelles. Minor changes would be reworking the appearance of the armor glass, and slight reskinning to show the intercoolers in the wing leading edge. DM would need to be altered to reflect the new engines and cooling system arrangement. The cockpit layout is identical to existing P-38J.

Models prior to the P-38H had slightly different engine controls, and in some cases different flap controls, so their cockpits were a bit different. That would require extra work if they were to be flyable.

But, as AI aircraft, once you've got the earlier engine nacelle and canopy designed, only FM/DM work would be needed to add the whole run of early to mid-war P-38s from the P-38E to the P-38H.

The P-38D would require a different reworking of the engine area, and since it was used in very limited numbers its probably not worth it.

Hey, it would be incredibly easy to make Bf 110C-1 (i think most popular Bf 110 in 1939 Defensive War in Poland), so please add this plane. Only differences is worse crew armor (C-4 is almost undestroyable by P.11c's 7.92mm machine guns), slightly worse cannons (MG FF instead of MG FF/M) and older FuG III radio. It's important for me, because "Polenfeldzug" is one of most unknown and forgotten periods of WWII. Please think about it, because it would take a little time to add this plane... This is priority for me, after that maybe Bf 110B-1/B-2/B-3, still popular up to 1940...

Not really. Me-210A isnt modeled. But I guess nobody would want to fly that thing. One of the worst planes of the war. :)

And also, the Ju-88 A14. I think its incredibly easy to make.

Differences compared to A4:

No horizontal bombsight, MG-FF installed in its place (like Ju-88A4/Torp)
Balloon cutters, integral to wings (not visible on model)
Slightly more armor

I'd be happy to fly subject she is from Hungarian production batch.
:cool:

I meant the original German 210A, which was terrible. Hungarian, modified 210C wasnt bad at all.

You could also include the Bf-110C-3 as a loadout option for the C-1, since the only difference between the C-1 and the C-3 was replacing the MG FF with the MG FF/M. That would allow for all the Bf-110C options that are important for the game.

The Invasion of Poland would be an interesting area for IL2 to explore, since the campaign was literally a proving ground for both the German and Soviet air forces, and since maps of Poland can also be used for the battles of 1944-45.

The only problem is that it would require modeling a whole bunch of aircraft and ground equipment that weren't used anyplace else.

A flyable Hungarian Me-210 would also open up some interesting new campaign possibilities.

And $50 US from me that I'll never get back.

yeah, i think it wouldn't take much time to make this versions of 110 :) it would be great to see these planes :)

For AI planes, we need to think in terms of what aircraft share the same basic external model, with minor differences that could be modeled using skins.

The simplest new planes to implement are the ones that just had slight tweaks to armament - which could potentially be modeled as a loadout rather than a whole new plane.

The next best thing are the planes that just had an uprated engine or minor differences in armor or equipment, which would require minor changes to existing Flight Models or Damage Models.

For flyable planes, things get a bit trickier since there were sometimes equipment changes between models, which means that crew stations might need to be reworked, essentially creating a whole new plane. Even something as simple as a change to armament or ordinance loadouts might require a reworking of the cockpit.

But, for reworkings of crew stations, it might be possible to create well-done "frankenplanes" where part of one existing modeled is attached to parts of another existing model. For example, it might be possible to easily create a Soviet Lend-Lease A-20C or A-20G by swapping the Soviet UTK-1 turret for the US-made Martin turret.

more versions of betty

So, making Bf 110C-1, C-3, "soviet" A-20s, and A-20H with beefier engines will be very easy. I wish I can see them in next release :)

The Bf-110 mentioned in previous post sounds interesting.
I also would like to see a Poland section. There are lots of mods for Poland but they have not made it into TD patches, yet.

The best scenario for twin engines, will be "el golfo de vizcaya".
Bf-100, Ju88C-6, Me410, D0217, Beaufighters, moskitos, Lockhedd (not the P-38, but the coastal patrol version)
And some four engined planes like Short sunderland, B24, FW200 condor, Halifax.
Those planes were very busy over there.

Also there was a huge war on the night intruder role, with the germans harassing british air bases without night radars, and got as opposition twin engine british night fighters.

AKA, The Bay of Biscay.

I've been asking for this for years. This area is a dream for strike fighters and patrol bomber fans.

But, as you said, IL2 would need to add a number of planes, and perhaps a few more ships, to really bring the area to life. Also, it would require at least 2 maps to do the area justice, or perhaps just one large map at 1:2 or 1:4 scale.

This is another "forgotten" aspect of the Western Front where twin-engined types really shined. Most of the necessary plane set already exists, although a few new variants might need to be added. The only real problem is maps, since intruder ops mostly were over SW England, coastal France, and the Netherlands. Currently, we have nothing for those areas.

I'd also like to see TD get actual night fighter and night bombing ops sorted out first. After all, intruders need night bombers and night fighters to bomb, and night fighters need something other than bombers to shoot.

This would be incredible... Some of the planes would be more or less easy to add:

Mosquito F Mk.II: Modified from Mk.VI
Beaufighter MK.VIC: modified cockpit + small external changes to Mk21
Ju-88C6: According ot TD, external is done, it would need new cockpit, but most of it could be ported straight from A4.
Bf-110C4 and/or F2: Pilot's cockpit from G2 with modifications, gunner's cockpit would need some serious changes, especially the canopy.

With all this talk about night fighting, perhaps the Japanese Irving, or Gekko, would be something to look into.

And gunner/navigator position... I like almost everything in Beau except my inability to watch my six.

That would be very interesting, especially if there was a map of the parts of Honshu that were heavily bombed.

But, I have to wonder if decent references on Japanese radar and night fighter ops exist. Lots of material was lost during the war and immediately afterwards. That might make it impossible to accurately recreate Japanese night fighters.

But, no reason why the Japanese equivalent of "Wilde Sau" (night fighters without radar, directed by ground stations) ops couldn't be recreated.

Although it would be sort of fun for multiplayer, If AI gunners actually did their job, then you wouldn't even need the Beaufighte's navigator station.

Proper work by gunners would be calls like:

"[One/two/three/multiple] [bogies (AKA unknown planes)/bandits (AKA hostile planes/fighters/bombers] [inbound/outbound/holding station] at [1-12 o'clock] [low/level/high] [top/belly/tail/nose/right waist/left waist gunner catch him/them as he/they pass.]

Consistently calling out advice like: Break [left/right]/Dive/Climb.

Giving position reports for hostile/unknown/friendlies when asked.

Ignoring bandits/bogies beyond a certain range, as well as bandits/bogies in the pilot's field of view, so you don't get repeated calls of "fighters, 12 o'clock" for a formation of fighters miles away and miles above which aren't likely to be part of any combat.

I know certain gunners used to call away to break right or left. I think it was SBD, but don't believe they still do.

Absolutely agree. With some rough distance, as " far away" or panick call "very close!".
But hey, I still need this navigator cockpit for Beau. At least in order not to feel lonely during long flights over Pacific or Med waters. :cool:

I heard it on Il-2 but rarely. Probably on Bf-110 as well.

It would be nice to see two or three new versions of the Bf-110.
After all, it was one of the most famous airplanes of Germany during WW2 and just to the outbreak of war a feared weapon.
Maybe some more earlier versions?
Also, a Ju-88 C would be very nice.
Well, there are so many planes are still missing, but I'm hoping for the Bf-110.

Great Work TD!

List/popularity
 

Just quickly draw a list: model - times mentioned in this thread.
I could miss some planes, of course.

A-20C lend lease 3
A-20G-20-DO 1
A-20G1 4
A-20H 4
B-25C 5
B-25D 1
B-25G 2
B-25H 2
B-25J field mode 4
Beaufighter Mk X 1
Beaufighter MK.VIC 1
Beaufighter MkIc 1
Bf 110B-1 1
Bf 110B-2 1
Bf 110B-3 1
Bf-110C-1 3
Bf-110C-3 2
Bf-110C-7 2
Bf-110C-4 4
Bf-110D-2 1
Bf-110E-1 1
Bf-110F-2 2
Bf-110G-4 2
Blenheim Mk I 1
Blenheim Mk IV 1
Boston IIIa 1
Defiant 1
Defiant Mk.II 1
Do-217K/M 1
He-111 4
Ju-188 2
Ju-88A-14 1
Ju-88C-6 3
Me-210 6
Me-410 4
Mosquito F Mk.II 1
P-38D 1
P-38E 1
P-38H 2
P-61 1

By the way... What about Japanese twin engine crafts.
My favorites:
Ki-46-II
Ki-46-III
Ki-46-III-Kai
Ki-46-IIIb

"Bogies" would imply unidentified planes, which would cover any far distant planes. "Inbound" implies a path that takes the identified plane on a path which crosses that of the player's plane, and, for an enemy plane some sort of pursuit curve is implied. "Outbound" implies a path that takes the plane on a more or less straight line course away from the player's plane.

But, beyond that, you're absolutely right.

Add:

Direction options: [climbing/diving [and] turning left/turning right]

Modifiers for course: [distant/medium/close/very close]

Modifiers for holding station: [distant, holding formation, 10-50 meters/feet, 100-500 meters/feet]

Modifiers for closing: [closing slowly/closing fast]

Gunner command options: [split S left/right, climb/dive left/right/straight/hold steady]

If TD really wants to get into spiffing up the Beaufighter, that navigator station could also be turned into a RSO position, allowing players to operate various forms of radar. I guess the navigator station could also be set up to allow you to do things like celestial and dead-reckoning navigation, but that would probably be far too esoteric for most people.

And, of course, there are all those lovely marks of Beaufighter that aren't in the game, some of them with turrets instead of navigator station.

You hear it very occasionally. Officially, it's in all the voice packs.

Practically, it seems that very few multi-crew planes have gunners who will speak to you. The IL-2, SBD, and the Bf-110 have it, other multi-crew planes don't seem to have it. It must be something that has to be coded into the AI for each plane.

But, having a "talkative" gunner is a mixed blessing. Often their calls to break left or right are wrong, and more often than not you get the "What are you doing!" gunner freak out, which is just annoying. (After all, you're in command of the damned plane, so you should be able to tell the gunner to put up and shut up or else.)

Another good way to measure desire for planes that aren't in the game is to go to Mission 4 Today and check to see which "hack" skins are most popular. For example, A-20C or Ki-21 as Douglas Maryland or Baltimore, H8K "Emily" as Short Sunderland.

Good ideas, Pursuivant - as usually.

About 2 engine planes additions.
Pe-3 - we miss one "late war" modification with M-105PF engines. Just 19 units were in operation, so I can't say this is first priority, but stil...
Also more weapon options are welcome for Pe-3/Pe-3bis. Rockets, may be grenades if they can be modelled (based on parafrags?). And certainly fuel tanks which were quite common, especially in Navy units.

I'd appreciate if the AI gunners didn't try to shoot at planes that are e.g. missing a wing, or are already being chased away by friendly escorts. What a wonderful way to waste ammunition, and give the opponents an extra opportunity to spot you from a distance!

I'd like to have the earlier Bf 110s as flyables, but that's mostly because they would fit nicely into early war scenarios and settings. The thing is, I don't think they would bring that much new to the table, gameplay wise. The Ki-45, for example, is just a Bf 110 on steroids - at a first glance, but it brought the schräge musik - cannons into the game, even if there are only so many chances to use them effectively. All in all, the early 110s addition would make more sense than some dull and/or forgettable level bombers.

Fire discipline for gunners, as well as ability to tell friend from foe, should be linked to gunner quality. Rookie gunners should do all the stupid things that AI gunners currently do, and more.

Exactly. Veteran gunners know those tricks. Rookies are likely to forget in the heat of battle.

There's also the problem that many of the proposed new planes don't have proper maps where they can fly.

For example, a plane like the Spitfire Mk V or Tempest seem most "natural" on an English Channel map that stretches from Dover to Calais, rather than over Normandy. Rare birds like the IK-3 or the PZL.11c literally have no map to call home.

Ideally, new aircraft should also come with an appropriate map to fly over. For example, the Adriatic Coast for the IK-3, or the Polish coast for the PZL.11c.

More variants of existing planes would make sense, but there are a few places where there are gaps in a particular country's "Order of Battle," and it isn't appropriate to use an earlier/later model of an existing plane.

In some mods there are also beautiful models of PZL.37B "Łoś", and it will be nice to see it, even AI only... But definitely easier is to bring us earlier models of Bf 110 B/C

Pilot's cockpit for Bf 110C is indeed relatively easy to make, some instruments are arranged a bit differently, thats all. The problem is rear gunner, that is totally different unfortunately. Especially, the opening part of the canopy for the MG. (an interim solution would be that gunner is AI only. This way, we could have more important variants, like the best of the 110 line, the F2, or the long range D)

I'd really like to see a Ju-88C6a too, I think it is also not that hard to make. Most of the cockpit could be ported straight from A4.

Always wondered why that is not a viable solution, considering that most pilots will not ever use the rear gunner and in IL-2 Field mod its not different(for other reasons, okay).

JU-88 Night fighter . Flyable FW-189;)

Plenty of pilots will use the tail gunner - at least in some situations.

For example, it's sometimes handy to do a quick "jump" to your rear gunner's station just prior to combat, or during a lull, to get a read on the situation to your rear.

As another example, if you're flying a mission where you have to fly straight and level to and from the target, and you run into fighters along the way, then often it's more effective, and fun, to man a gunner's station.

But, your point is valid. If the IL2 game has managed to have one of the original planes in the game - the IL2 FM - without a rear gunner station for all these years, then why not make more planes flyable by just adding a cockpit?

The Ju-88C-6 seems like a logical addition, and might not be that hard if you can use the same radar set as in the proposed Bf-110G-4.

A flyable FW-189 would be lots of fun. It was a very agile aircraft.

external of C6 we have ... but like i said earlier - with some issue ...

Yes, but Ju-88C2 works well, even though it has similarly arranged guns...

If only the C6, even if just the day fighter version, would be flyable one day!

more g4m2 variants

Honestly a Blenheim bomber for the finns as flyable, and a CSBS

How about a Beaufighter Mk 1c.
Would like to do a battle of the Bismarck Sea on the NGNB March 43 map. No. 30 Squadron RAAF used this beaufighter during the battle.
I use the Mk 21 Beau currently and all the blues complain.
And also P-38s, the E, F, and G models.

Of course I can be happy with what we have currently, this just a wish :P
What we really need right now is more people using 4.13........

I fly only offline.

I use 4.11.1 because that's what's in Ultimate Edition. I won't give away my email address to get a download and loads of spam.

For twin engined planes, what about the Westland Whirlwind?

+1.

This is a historically irrelevant, but beautiful (to my eyes) type. There’s at least one around, but it has a P38 yoke and cockpit, and split flaps.

www.youtube.com/watch?v=mBTP5yNqF88

Well we all hate Spam. Except Hawaiians. They love spam.
But my point is this. I am not a programmer, but I don't imagine its easy, adding planes or objects to the game. And plenty of people are asking for new objects, planes, etc. So Daidalos team spends all this time and work to add objects to the game that people such as yourself ask for. Just so you can say, No thanks, I don't want to use your new patch. I prefer HSFX, or CUP, or etc...
Just seems like a waste of valuable time to me.

This is content Daidalos team/1C 3rd party a Charlie Chap (head of HSFX).
B-29 cockpit exactly this was started by Kami_1 in 3rd party for IL2 PF, was never released.
Was finished too turret positions but unfortunately was lost by crash Kami's HDD.
After take it Daidalos team, did some revisions and there help us Charlie Chap. B-29 was relased as mod in beta phase in HSFX7.
This project still waiting for continue in Daidalos archives ... this is not somewhere from SAS or other community.

Same situation was with Do-217 pit, etc ...

And Bf-110G4 we have too.

That's a shame. It would have been very interesting to see how DT modeled the fire control systems on the B-29.

So, based on what was written here in the forum, the L2D, Li-2, C-47, Bf-110 G-4 and Ju-88 C-6 are planned for the next patch? :cool:;)

more or less)

And someone mentioned MBR-2 as I remember :)

There are four crew stations to animate - pilot, co-pilot, dorsal gunner and nose gunner. That's a pretty big project and references might be scarce - particularly for the gunner stations.

Also, it's a pretty crude model, so it might need to be updated to make it a good-looking flyable plane.

cockpit's for MBR-2 already done ...

@ Sita, will you start posting some WIP shots for the new patch :grin:;)

when we will 100% sure that we have all what we need to make new patch properly

i hope our awkward silence will not long ...

Looks good

:)