..just another open letter to Luthier, Oleg and 1C
 

Dear Luthier, Oleg and co.

first of all allow me to express my admiration for what you have achieved so far, I unfortunately haven't had a chance to play with the new sim yet, but apparently once again you set up a new benchmark, so hats off to that, you guys rock.

Having said this, I would like to use one of my grandad's favourite sayings "one constructive critique is more productive than a thousand compliments" and talk about something that has really got me thinking since the early release of Cliffs of Dover.

I'll get to the point: what exactly is the problem with your PR guys? I mean, you're not working on the next water engine here, or sending rockets to Mars, and no offence but there are way bigger game developing houses working on bigger games than yours, so what is it with all the secrecy?

Our hobby (and your job) is a niche one as we all know, so if anything there should be a more open exchange with the community, or at least caring to share what's going on in an ordinate manner (like your colleagues at RoF did and keep on doing for example).

Don't you really see all the people regularly asking for updates? Or more simply you're deciding to ignore it? Let's not forget that it's even thanks to those people if you guys receive money, so if anything showing a bit of respect would make a lot of people a lot happier.

The last post by Luthier with the Kremlin screenshot and the allusive message was a typical example of your technique of "let's drop a nugget there so they are busy speculating on this", but it's an old one, and frankly among us there are a lot of mature, competent or more simply intelligent people that don't really appreciate your patronising attitude anymore.

Luthier seemed to be the man of change, with his better knowledge of English and is more upfront image, but now it all seems to have gone back to the old days..

I will conclude this letter with a hint from someone who worked in the world of media for years and has a lot of experience in PR: make an effort and show regular updates on what's going on, spend some time with the fanbase, because it's only thanks to these folks if you are where you are, if you don't show some respect you will lose all your credibility.

I know you won't bother answering as you haven't done in the past, but this is yet another little post..

Your sincerely

A Huge Fan

+1 In my working life I have always said I can manage good news, or bad news, it's just no news I can't manage. Communication is key, with the team, with the stakeholders, and yes with the customers.
Here we the community is both part of the team (unpaid beta testers) and the customer - and given that we can influence our friends and colleagues opinions, we are key influencers as well. I know parts of the community has a tendency to jump on anything you say and some twist it to their own needs - but some news good or bad will stop some of the wild speculation and allow the level headed amongst us to make informed judgements.
I hope we get some form of update on the next patch eta and roadmap soon, but I won’t hold my breath, though it would be nice to be pleasantly surprised.

Well written open letter but...
...I don't have the game yet so I hang here in the forum.
If I had the game I'd be flying while waiting for patches!

Nice +1

Customers are included in the stakeholders. I know you tried to be redundant here... After all, this forum is aviation related. :-P
Cheers.

Communication can be better, but it's a double edged sword in a way.

I agree that it would not hurt one bit for Luthier to quickly pop on here and say: "Sorry, no patch this weekend...very busy right now...got to run."

But on the other hand, do we expect him to lay out a roadmap for the next two or three months? That can get messy.
If he commits himself to saying that (for example) engine sounds will be implemented in the next two months, people are going to consider that written in stone and hold him to that.
Then some problem crops up, maybe something nothing related to sound, but it puts the schedule behind by a few weeks.
Then people start compaining that they were lied to, that this game will never be finished etc.
You know how it goes.

Damned if you do, damned if you don't.

+1.
Also +1 to the point Sternjaeger II brings up. We would appreciate (us people, who actually bought the game and beta test it.) to have an update on what is going on.

hum... I'm wondering if they haven't come back from that holiday, made a quick and dirty beta (apparently knocking out multiplayer....) then leave back to their vacations !! :D !! Cause, FRANKLY... voila...

That kind of caught my eye too... People who have supported the game financially get called trolls for speaking out their frustration, but praising the devs whether owning the game or not seems allways be +100.

This is a strange, strange forum...

Yeah you right. But he used to come here on fridays and drop a message: We might be posting up a beta patch in a couple hours, or if not ready by tonight it will appear on monday.

People can't possibly be saying this is written in stone at all... And it makes us more patient (or not, but it certainly gives us some understanding of what's being done and what to expect shortly), unlike being left in total blackout.

Especially since the last (3rd) betapatch which we have yet to know if he is going to implement it, or not implement it, is he going to make a beta patch (BetaPatch episode IV: A new hope) or jump straight to an official release...

etc... etc...

I thought Maddox games has been letting us know where they stand. I know they have been working almost 24/7 to improve performance, fix bugs, and canceled their May holidays. They hoped to have another patch this week, but I figure its quite obvious that they've run into some technical difficulties, and doesn't require an immediate update.

"don't really appreciate your patronizing attitude anymore" doesn't sound that constructive either.

That's your assumption. I bought every single edition of Maddox Games IL-2 series, also have CoD, just don't have the rig for it.

Chivas, you have been around long enough to know that things have been like this for YEARS.

The (in)famous "the patch will be out in two weeks" pun is legend on the IL-2 related forums, they never made an effort to make their comms more effective. I know they're rushing, but if they want to be taken as a serious gaming company they need to get down from their "we're simulation rockstars" pedestal and interact with the community more, and I'm not necessarily talking about questions and answers, cos it can wear you off over time, I'd be very happy with a one way regular output, i.e. "these are our long term plans, as things are now this is our potential, we're looking for these things, we don't need these other things; these are our short term plans, etc.."

Many people came to the conclusion that we bought a late beta and that we're helping them tweaking it before the release to the US market, but that's just an assumption, nobody ever bothered saying "sorry, we kinda screwed up, we delivered an incomplete product because our distributor is a pain in the ass, but hey, we're working on fixing things", instead we get quick updates, with swift and sometimes sarcastic explanations of what has been fixed (an example is the explanation of the instrument flicker thing, where many of us people with flying experience said "nice, but it's overdone" and the reply we get on the patch is "Replaced every tachometer in every British and Italian plane with an electrical type, since some people find needle movement on the mechanical type not what they expected." )

To me it looks like the work of someone that doesn't wanna be there, but has to and leaves sarcastic comments based on his frustration.

I know it's probably not the case, but the sarcasm doesn't really make things better.


As for the patronising, it's always been like that, and I'm sorry if my comment doesn't help, but the guys have been proven wrong several times and never admitted it or apologised. Again don't get me wrong, I love what they do, but the guys really need to make an effort to come out and talk about the fantastic features of the sim.

Little gems like the machine gun tapes coming off on spits and hurris after you shoot, or the plane's paint wearing off as you proceed your career are things that should be highlighted on and on because that's what makes the difference between what they do and the rest of the crap that is out there.

You hit the nail on the head, sir!

It's a great start, but the forum ought to be a place where fans can voice their concerns and criticisms to help the devs know what aspects of the game to work on.

They ARE working their butts off as far as I can tell. Game gets better every other patch or so:D I would wrather get 1 messge from Luthier than 10 messges from a PR agent.

Just my 2 cents.

Chris

We know the long term plan is much the same as IL-2. Develop most of the major air theaters of WW2. They have also hinted that the sim can go as far as a combined forces sim, but thats a long way off.

We know the short term plan is the finish COD.

We know the game was forced out the door before it was ready. UBI/IC/Maddox games aren't stupid enough to release the game in this condition with the unprecedented poor publicity that would entail, unless it was absolutely necessary.


Yes, UBI/IC/Maddox games could have been honest and let everyone know that the state of the game before it was released, but that also could have curtailed enough sales that the sim would have to be canceled anyway.

Personally I much prefer beta testing COD now than having the game canceled. Yes its a pain, but there is enough usable content to keep me entertained as the updates improve sim. Atleast its much more entertaining than never having COD, or waiting for the next sim from Gaijin, Microsoft, Micropose, Rowan, or 777 Studios.

Rattlehead, these guys aren't doing this in their spare time, they're doing it as a job and they're expected to have a roadmap and respect the promises they do. It's a hobby for us, not for them. The sounds example is classic, they haven't made any comments on it AT ALL, that's simply unacceptable.

Just thinking out loud;
I think it's above their heads,they ran into the border of their and/or the game's abilities...
Does the Ubisite also already approve mod threads?
If so i think they gave up,it's not even out yet in the USA,just my thoughts...

Yeah, I must admit that after reading your posts on this thread a few times over (for clarity) your point makes sense.
It would be comforting to know what the score is (pardon the pun) on the sound issue, that being one of many examples.

Another example of "game works fine for me anyone angry is a whiner".

Have you really managed to overlook all the guys having WORSE performance after the patches?

I for one would have given them more money by buying a box edition in addition to downloading if they had been up front about the condition. I doubt that I'm alone. Instead though, they pretty much hid how bad it was and launched it as a finished product. This move cut down dramatically on the respect I have for them.

I'm sure the game will be fixed in time. My issue is with them not coming clean beforehand as well as the terrible PR afterwards. I KNOW they are not too busy to log in at least once a week and give an update on patches.

The drama is unbearable... or maybe I should say unbearable boring.

The devs are working on it. As long as that is happening why waste time writing and analyzing it.

Yes, why not close the entire forum and let people do something constructive. I can´t understand this "devs are working on it, praise them or leave them be" -attitude. Why? Because none of the patches so far has made any difference in game´s performance for me. Now, I understand that some of us are getting better results, but AT LEAST half of the users are still suffering from abysmall performance. And this "only constructive praising allowed" -trend in this forum is giving them headache.

Help I'm bleeding.

Your opinion of course. Your "half of users are still suffering" etc. You take too much on yourself. It always amazes me at self generated statistics people promote.

There are plenty of things to discuss without all the continual drama. Reminds me of a bunch of busy-body women sitting on the couch having their cookies and coffee talk.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QqPiJ0L7YmY

Nearmiss, I believe you made your point (which has nothing to do with what I'm saying anyway), do we really need to degenerate now?

Spot on mate
 

Great post mate exactly how a lot of my forums members feel, duped would sum it up in one word.

Tbh i`ve almost stopped playing this release ( I bought 2 copies btw in good faith, 1 for our server and 1 for my PC), if they`d have said paid beta no one would`ve complained, instead they relied on the faith placed in them by thousands who supported their every move over 9 years of Il2 and released a game allegedly 6 years in the making which was is so badly flawed that after years of waiting I often can`t be bothered to play it. Ask yourself why there wasn`t a trial version or any tangeable gameplay shots. I`d call that deceipt.

I expect this will improve and in whatever timescale the sim will be the best out there, I resent being duped though.

I can't help but laugh. Just trying to help others get off the serious side.

Everything is fine, it will take time of course for a 100% complete BOB COD.

I heard this phrase many times in my life, "No news is good news".

Go hunt down my posts.....and pay attention to what I typed. I got this game when it was russian only and have been struggleing to get it working. I can crash this game anytime I please because it has major memory usage problems. I always choose to have a positive spin and believe they are working as hard as they can to get it stable for their next release.

And on a side note I also have the justflight version AND I bought a gtx460 just for this game. Unfortunatly 460 xp and dx9 won't work together in this game. Had to go back to my old 260:

Chris

..man you're a lost cause..

Synti, What are your PC Specs? What settings are you using? What do you class as acceptable performance? What problems are you actually experiencing and in what circumstances?

The difference in asking for assistance and whining is that someone who wants to work towards a solution will actually state what the problem is. A whiner just moans on like a broken record. It's boring, repetitive and annoying.

The people that you are bashing in your posts are long standing members of the forum that have added to the community over the years by disseminating information and actively helping people with issues, and being involved in many, many (some time intense) debates.

They are not in the habit of demanding to have questions answered by the developers, demanding to have content added or post poorly written 'Open Letters' to elicite a response and waste the time of the very busy developers.

What do you intend to add to the community?

..are you by any chance referring to my letter when you say "poorly written open letters"?

I think that kid is jealous of Oleg and Luthier from others paying them professional accolades on their work. But it eats at him day and night. As he sits though his algebra class he notices another kid drawing a spitfire and finds out he owns it and loves it. NOOOOO!!!!! Then it consumes him even further and it sits in the pit of his stomach and festers. He comes here and lurks refreshing his browser over and over and whenever someone post a thank you because they just got it NOOOOOOO NOT ANOTHER ONE!!! He can't wait to get in here and lay down some masterful bon mots.

The question is....what makes you think you have any business telling anyone here how they spend their money?

I can't help it but my impression is that some people want a webcam installed in Maddox Games' offices, with 24/7 accessibility and a whip-wielding slavedriver to give a programmer who is slacking a little extra motivation. And then said people still would complain.

I think you guys don't want communication - you want control. :roll:

My specs exeed the recommendations for this sim and I´m very familiar with tweaking (long time Bohemia Interactive user... ;) ). I consider myself quite demanding when it comes to sim performance. IL 2 1946, RoF, A10, BS, FC2 all run smooth (high FPS in battle, most importantly: no stutters) on my rig and look beautiful. Now, I didn´t expected CLOD to be on the same league right away (I fully understand that most of those games have gone through extensive patching), but nor did I expect this! Even if it would run fluently, it's still suprisingly ugly (ground, buildings, let alone sounds...). There is just so much to be added, not just something that needs to be patched.

This bugs me, but nowdays I sure can live with it. I made a bad buying decision and have to suffer from it. What is really pissing me off, is when in this forum and, say, UBI forums, people who are considering buying the game are asking for the tips to upgrade their computer and they get these "Buy GPU with at least 3Gb memory" -answers. Then they read more and see these guys with 3x SLI GTX 590 and HAL 9000 praising the game and it's performance. They decide to go and buy their own über-rig, just to find that the game I flawed, broken and ugly.

Now, who is waisting whose time? I think devs are both waisting our time and our money, and so is the army of fanboys protecting them. This whole thing around CLOD is so ridiculous and should stand as a warning for game developers not to go this route. It should also stand as a warning for sim community, and make us demand even some quality and respect.

"Devs are working on it", good, when they are done they get our money. That's the way rest of world goes. Guys at 1C really deserve all the bad press, anger and whining, never mind how repetitive or boring that is.

People spend too much time looking at the recommended specs. As have been showed to us all, by people upgrading and getting badass rigs, running a badass rig does help you get the smooth FPS. Look at Mazex thread for example. The game needs horsepower, although a bit unoptimized still, the game will surely need horsepower in the future as well.

S!

While CoD has it's moments and potential it was released prematurely, no-one can deny that. Devs, luckily for us, work hard to patch up the things and really hoping the game will be in better condition upon US release in about a week or so.

Pelit (Games), a Finnish gaming magazine did a review on CoD. They did not give a rating to it, yet. Just stated the same seen all over the place: premature release, bugs and performance issues. They acknowledged the patches and all but also noted that CoD's lifespan depends how quick the game is patched/finished. The reviewer is a long time flight simmer and avid fan of IL-2 series, so not the usual "I play this 5min and do a review" thingy.

As of the letter. Well, sure credits are to be given where they are due. Not arguing that. But for whatever reason IL-2 CoD failed to live up to the name of IL-2 we are used to. If Luthier and his team manage to pull off the patching and finishing the game, then we can really celebrate.

Annoying is the attitude here. Critics or anything negative about CoD is frowned upon. Sure there is whining and such, but some people do post relevant posts about the state of the game. Even a thread of "constructive feedback" that can be used. It really does not change anything if we all would be squirming on floor and praising the devs, being pro brown noses. Won't make us look any better in their eyes. I believe that a truthfull no nonsense critic that is well written, loaded with data and gets to the point is more appreciated by the devs than puppy eyed attitude that everything goes, praising the game in every turn or being a "defender of holy CoD".

Really, we paid for a beta. Let's do our share to test and help. That way CoD can one day be what is was supposed to be.

Now this is a good idea :cool:

No complaints, promise. Just more whippin' when things don't go fast enough :twisted::mrgreen:

The problem is that it is incessant, insentient & too often immature. And never helpful.

Luthier has on numerous occasions admitted that there are issues, he has apologised, stated they are working flat out to patch & rectify the issues.. but yet the immature whining continues without pause on a daily basis.

This causes a reaction from supporters of the game who in turn over react. Its a self perpetuating wagon wheel.

While i might be frustrated with some of the issues with the game these threads are tiresome.

(EDIT: ps i'm not having a go at any individual here in this thread..just tired of the community whining vs fanboy bollocks)

Really and you can make that statement how, your just a info-less as the rest of us nearmiss as you have said in the past.

Sorry mate I dont like sayin this stuff because I've respect for your integrity and some of the other long term supporters in the IL2 community but it does look as if there is a major communication problem here, false statements about things like full screen being fixed, when clearly the boss hasnt checked the patch or knows it dont work yet it gets released anyway.

I am patient and i will wait with the majority, but the complaints I see here on these forums are not that the game is crap because it isnt.
Its because for a long time we have been told one thing and then something else happens or it turns out not to be true and developers knew it wasnt true.
Seriously you cant say that you dont see and sympathise with some people's unhappines based on that premiss and that fact that they have paid their money and entered into this senario.

Also just throwing this out there as a thought ~while I do think it is wrong but funny to ridicule peoples frustration with the usual sarcasam, what if they complainers are right? doesnt that complain/ridicule senario just tell the possible unscruplious ideas that there will always be people on their forums to shoot down/silence the problems?

Seconded.

hey cheesedick you need to learn to read. He said "I unfortunately haven't had a chance to play with the new sim yet" He did not say anything about not buying it. Jeez you cant read but you are let loose on a computer lol no wonder the devs are going to struggle with this game. Shit whats going to happen if they hypothetically release a file and tell you to put it in for example C:\steam\il-2 sturmovik cliffs of dover\parts\core\GUI you will be whackin it in my pictures folder and then moan that the game dont work doh:rolleyes:

I'm not going to work myself into a corner making a bunch of trash talk. It's too unbecoming.:rolleyes:

I have confidence Luthier is doing his best with what he has.

+1



@dougandtoni...

there's no reall need for outright namecalling and vulgarity like that, is there?

We certainly are a needy bunch.

Was the game released before it was finished?...Yes

Were the publishers/ developers evasive about the condition of the sim?...Yes

Did the evasiveness help initial sales?...Yes

Will the extra sales help fund the sims completion?...Yes

Will the sims unfinished state hurt sales?... Definitely

Did the publishers/developers want the sim released before it was ready?...Of course not

Do the publishers/developers know there are multiple problems?...Of course

Does the developer want to support the sim and have a regular paycheck thru the next 10-15 years of addons?...Yes

Will the sim be finished?...Probably

Will the sim be dropped?...Maybe

Do you have the right to constantly whine?...Yes

Will the constant whining improve the likelihood there will be enough sales to help finish the sim?...No

Whining is all about frustration and the feeling of having been duped.

What frustration ?

To buy the game "day one" for 60 bucks and beeing able to play it several months later, when it's dropped to 30 bucks.

I bought Microsoft Combat Flight Simulator version CFS3 two weeks after it was released in a used bookstore for $8.00

The problems with CFS3 were enormous compared to BOB COD. All the money and resources of MSFT and they couldn't make that dog hunt.

Many people frustrated beyond belief.

Frustrated sellers are motivated sellers. Motivated sellers... sell cheap. LOL

Sternjaeger II,
your post is a perfect example of a calm, well mannered criticism that is posted with standard respect for another human being. I don`t agree with you, though I highly welcome such attitude.

I think that since the beta patch was released, it is obvious that it is being worked on to hit Steam anywhere near the game`s US release. We pretty much have that covered. We also have good guess about what is the first expansion pack scheduled for release. Ok?

Now, what is beyond me are the folks who sit in here forums few hours a day doing nothing but flaming the devs, with no respect whatsovever. Nothing worth posting, just "make this game work or I`ll cry" drivel. Now I, even if I was feeling cheated by the initial release, I couldn`t post daily about how I feel about it. No time for that, gotta go shopping, gotta pay the bils, gotta go to work, gotta spend some quality time with family/friends. So the question rises : who are those people moaning here everyday? I would think they are people who have nothing else to do but sit in front of their monitor. And yet, this game being half-broken leads them to think that the sky is falling. The truth is that the sky is NOT falling. Every normal human being can`t be bothered with posting such drivel nearly every day. So much venom, so much frustration. Even with moderators working here to clean the drivel out of this forum, they can`t put a stop to it, because there is so many of them. So many pathetic, intelectually challenged people who have no control over their reactions. Why should we even tolerate them? They make everyone else look bad.

Get a life people! For a normal human being, pc entertainment is only a fraction of one`s life.

nearmiss, you will be the last soldier on the filed, trying to contact "the lost connection"..wish u good luck

The bottom line?

"No message is a message"

Many thanks to the folks who have directly and indirectly helped me over the years. No matter which way you lean on this issue, the message above is true.

I'm surprised no one has really gotten to this point.

1C has now opened up this forums to allow MODS discussions, and direct links to them. This is HUGE.

The TD has completed some marvelous improvements to IL2, added to that some of the mods available are absolutely unbelievable. By that I mean they are exceptionally well done.

The MODS including maps, sounds and effects turn the old IL2 into a completely new adventure for all of us.

Yes, we want something better and our expectations are high for that something better with BOB COD. I guess for the time being that will be out of the question.

I fire up the IL2 with TD updates and selected MODS. I quite honestly, enjoy it. If we didn't have the quality of improvements in IL2 I might really be put off, but that isn't the case. I'm thinking the IL2 is very viable with TD updates and Mods for the next couple years, because the BOB COD is wrapped around one small time frame in the WW2 only. I can fly every war theater and hundreds of aircraft in the improved IL2, including carrier based missions. It will be a long time before any of the features of BOB COD come close to the improved IL2. Remember this... the TD and 3rd party mod developers are still improving on the IL2.

For sure... if we didn't have expectations for the BOB COD, we would be enjoying the improved IL2. All our thoughts and energies would primarily be focused on TD releases and 3rd party mods.

I've found a much much better tactical war simulation to spend my time with. It's called "Angry Birds" and boy is it a challenge. :grin:

I'm flying Angry Birds too. I find the ground graphics too cartoony and the damage model on the egg bomb bird totally floored. Other than that I feel the immersion aspect is spot on especially with the realistic sounds. Can't wait for Mods. I was wondering if the boomerang bird really did fly during the Monkey period. I doubt it but would be nice to include it for the monkey series.

I remember the headless chickens running amuck when Falcon4 was released, however the sky didn't fall and the Falcon soared to become a classic much like iL2.
It seems to me that most of the children throwing themselves on the floor and wailing and screaming are not the hard core iL2 crowd but newcomers who want what most of this latest generation want.
I want it NOW!! more for me! more for me! I want it for peanuts or for free even, and if it's not perfect I'm gonna throw a tantrum, I'll show you! you'll be sorry!
Bugga me what an infantile bunch. I bought three copies, a Russian download and two DVDs, even if it never gets fixed I will be disappointed but c'mon some of the posters appear to be about twelve years old or so. There's many bigger problems to experience before you grow into mature adults.
cheers and happy flying.
Ibis.

Well put Ibis.

Who (in this thread) are you referring to??? I thought OP had some good points and didn't notice him demanding anything now or free....

The boomerang-bird did fly but it feels hopelessly overmodeled, no wai it turned like that without stalling IRL. I agree, the graphics are over saturated. Anxiously awaiting the new patch here.

thanks everyone for your comments, I believe that some of you missed the point, but fortunately Luthier hasn't:

http://forum.1cpublishing.eu/showthread.php?t=22887

you can leave out Oleg from the title of this thread, Oleg can't help you...