the adequate distance to view the game...
 

well if you use a 30 fov the vertical size of the screen must take an angualar size of 30º from your eyes

if you use a 45 fov the vertical size of the screen must take an angualar size of 45º from your eyes

and so on

but why in no game trackir calculates it the fov for you?

the device is underused

Do you lay awake at night thinking of these questions?

I lay awake all night thinking of the answers:)

I lay awake all night wondering why there's two S'es missing in SsSsSsSsSnake's SsSsSsSsSignature..:rolleyes::confused:

You must be new to The Raaaid.

He actually make some sense this time.. Still a useless thread though xD!

You asked "the adequate distance to view the game... "

I'd currently say America!

He's actually onto something here, though I'm not sure how well it would work in practice.

What he's getting at would work in a similar way to the tech demo that someone made using a wii remote, so that when you moved your head, the head traching follows and adjusts the field of view and perspective point to give an illusion of depth, though it's still displayed on a flat screen, and to any other viewpoint (like someone looking over your shoulder) it would look decidedly weird.

The problem I see is how then do you treat the pilots head - you would need to use the x/y/z translation axes as inputs for the faux 3d, and so would lose the 6 degrees of freedom we're used to using trackir/freetrack. we could still have 3dof, and I'm still not entirely sure how well this would work in practice. We would need to be able to map field of view to an axis, and then have some sort control via the x/y axis of the perspective point.

e: having re-read his comment, I think he just means the mapping of, say the z-axis of a trackir set to the fov setting. Much more doable than the idea I had. I'd still like some kind of control over the perspective point like I suggested though, it'd be... interesting to see the effects in this way, though it'd take a hell of a lot of configuring/fine tuning.

This would effectively transform the monitor to a 'holographic window' for one single user. It would be an awesome party trick, but as mentioned above, it would be unwieldly to use in a flight sim. Using rotating axles to rotate the camera and translating axles to reposition the holo-window might be feasible.

Anyhooo, this calculation should give the proper FoV for an adjustable distance, as long as monitor size and window sizes are known.

FoV = 2 * arctan( MonitorDiameter * cos( arctan(PixelsHeight/PixelsWidth) ) / 2)

This would make the FoV zoom out as you lean forward, giving you a single-user-holo-window.

I think it would be unwise and unhealthy to put in practive though you guys developped some pretty interesting ideas there, the only way to have a wide field of view would be to stick your face onto your screen (bad for your eyes), also if you have a small screen like me (17inch) and you need to get closer to it briefly to aim, or look at your instruments' readings it would increase the field of view making the instruments smaller as you try to get closer to them for reading.

So although the initial attempt would be to increase realism of point of view, it would really make it less realistic. Like I said before though he actually made some sense this time :), with an interesting idea at first but it comes down to it being a little useless IMO.

not necesarily

the only rule is that 10 pixels at 1 m got to be 5 pixels at 0.5 m

theres no need to take away the wide view

laziness Seiseki,but 10/10 for observsation:)

lol MP i was going to say from another room:)

lol now you just confirmed what I said.

imagine your using wide view at 1 m distance from the screen and the crosshair takes 20 pixels

6dof should make sure that gunsight takes 10 pixels when you move to 0.5 distance

this is the principle behind gunsights

but you can still use the widest view with this system as you see

Why?.......we don't need to throw in any more complications to this sim, just get on with ironing out the existing bugs, trackIR 6dof works just fine and everything you are hoping to achieve will become redundant when we finally have commercially available HD 3d dome projection.

"trackIR 6dof works just fine "

thats the key it works wrong in every game

as soon as you change distance to the screen the fov GOT to be modified accordingly, im sure the greeks would have done it right since the start

couldnt be easier and less resource consuming than a simple trig calculation

edit:

check the effect i explain here:

the crosshair has a constant angualr size whatever the distance of the camera:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NXsVg8F91t8

I know the effect well, it is called collimation, it what is used in modern HUD's to give focus at infinity, it is also used in professional flight simulators.


I'm sorry but that's not true, it works just fine, it just doesn't have the effect you want.

I will never pretend to know how easy or difficult it is to write code for software, but I am sure if it was so 'easy' it would have been done, ultimately you need to email someone at Naturalpoint with your concerns, perhaps you will let us all know what you discover?

You reconfirmed what I said yet again changing the values in your example, which brings nothing new to the equation. Let me dumb it out for you:

at one meter distance you have an object in game which appears to be of size x (call it 20 pixels if you will). Let's say that object is the speedometer.
From my little screen, with a small resolution (1280*768 I believe in game) I need to lean toward the screen in order to get the reading off that instrument of size x.

With your idea, if I do so and get closer to the screen (0.5 m) the speedometer will now be of size half a x (or 10 pixels.) effectively reducing its size by half, making it just as impossible (or difficult) to read.

So with your principle, getting closer to the cockpit would actually make it smaller... not really realistic is it?! The mistake you are making right now is to consider your computer's screen as a window. Indeed you have a wider and wider field of view as you get closer to it. But playing the game is not looking through a window, a person's field of view does not changes as he lean forwads.
Hopefully you get that much.

EDIT: Just did some math actually... So with my 17in screen if you principle is respected, when I sit a meter away from the screen, I should have a 13degree field of view vertically, and 20degrees horizontally.
If I would like to have a 30 degree field of view horizontally, sitting a meter away from my screen... I would need a 47inch screen. Now again, do you really think raaaid, that the Track IR has got it wrong for every games ?!
(Whaaaaaat? I take it waaaaaay too seriously?! what you guys are talking about :D)

that if you want to use a realistic size but you can still use a wide one with the same effect

or the opposite zoom

No you can't. your idea to keep the proper field of view, that is through angles from your eyes to the screen, which would generate the in game field of view to be "correct" as you suggested in original posts will HAVE to result in realistic sizes.

Having said that, using 2 different screens (a 17inch diameter one, and a 47inch one) will show a specific object with the EXACT same size on BOTH screens if you maintain the same distance with both screens. You'll just have a VERY RESTRICTED field of view on the 17 inch screen.

yes but pushing a buttom you would switch from realistic size to wide size keeping the effect of varying fov with screen distance in both cases

Well then it seems to me that this specific button would make the whole concept useless now wouldn't it?!
Which brings me back to my first post in this thread:

you would have the feeling of looking through a virtual window with smalling lens or not :)

I must be getting fluent in raaaidalese or something;

What he means is marrying the two ideas - his original changing of the fov, with the 3D window idea - but having his change of fov as a digital, two setting affair controlled by a button, rather than an axis.

When you pressed the button, it would be a little like a zoom out, and as long as the fov is still "connected" to the head tracking position, the impression of depth and viewing "through a window" would remain, though the fov would be much larger so I'm not sure the illusion would still work properly.

yeah something like that I guess. lol xD

yeah thats what i mean

you would have 3 options:

realistic view: one degree of the screen is one dgree of fov

zoomed view one double than the other

wide view: one half than the other

but making sure 6dof keeps the insync fov so distant objects look really distamt by keeping a constant angular size

this effect would be comparable to looking troughg a window with different lenses

your screen wont be a screen a ny more but a window to whatever worlds :)

when they implement this ill buy trackir