BF109 - Can't we just have the gunsight in the middle?
 

Seriously.

Over a decade of faffing about with Shift-F1, leaning over, loosening straps or whatever...i'm weary of it. Just place the damned thing in the centre of the dash! Is anyone really going to be put out by such a minor concession to usability?

Realism be hanged in this instance.

A much more sensible concession would be to simply make the default center view for the 109 (and pretty much all other German aircraft for that matter) line up with the gun-sight.

No let it stay as it is now! I like it! With Track ir 5 its ok!

Exactly.

LOL I kind of agree, in real life you would close one eye when using the offset gunsight but if you have track ir or freetrack its easy to lean slightly to the left.

Personally I love having to move to get the gunsight in view wish some fps games would add track ir in that way too :D

No, simply let it where it is and just change the parallax of the aiming, as the pilot, in real life, didn't move his head to aim, but just close his left eye.

Close left eye---cntrl E

Trust me. It really works LOL

lol :lol:

I doubt any pilot closed his eye in combat. Deprives you of 3d view and distance estimation. Just give us a button that has to be pushed throughout aiming that moves the head automatically to the right position while keeping head shake and g effects. Bingo. The current way is not more realistic as viewing hardware is not simulating real movement well and making it unrealistically difficult to aim with the 109 compared to other planes.

See that is funny because.... there is no one eye button, Ctrl+E is eject...

Apparently it needed an explanation...:rolleyes:

So, you want an arcade game.. then play HAWX 2

I have no idea about its historical accuracy but I agree with the OP - partially because its unneeded fluff it doesnt improve the realism or gameplay other then a minor cosmetic which actually gets in the way (especially for new players). Its not in the same league as for example realistic engine managment or other features.

+1 to space communist

:grin:

Please don't breed.

You stop before supersonic He-111s. Obviously.

But you might be right. Today it's just a visible gun-sight....tomorrow who knows where it'll lead to.....perhaps dancing?!!!

I dont even attempt to fly the 109 because of this. Shift F1 makes the view too narrow to fly the thing. Worked fine in 1946, yet another fail.

Back when I was flying the Ki43-I with its telescopic sight in the original IL-2, I mapped the Shift-F1 function to the spacebar. This can be hit quickly and easily without the need to co-ordinate two keys in the middle of combat. Problem solved for all aircraft needing the gunsight view.

Cheers,

Fafnir_6

U do realize that ctrl-F1 severely restricts your field of view and to get normal view back u have to press it again, target appears, press it again, and so on and so forth.

Hardly realistic or practical in the middle of a df.

You're playing the wrong game mate. This game is about realism. Putting the gunsight in the middle is the most idiotic suggestion made on these boards to date

+1

With TRKIR here is a trick that might get it to the centre for you as a pseudo default.

1. Centre Track IR before going in game.
2. Select your 109 aircraft.
3. In game move your Head LEFT until you loose the Reticle completely, hold your head there.
4. With your head position frozen as in STEP 3 Re centre Track IR
5. Move head to its neutral position .. Bingo new centre is looking straight at the revi.

Who needs a gunsight? :grin: No really, you only need the horizontal line of it.

C'mon guys. It's not that hard to use and yes you have to make some adjustments to see through it. It's part of the simulation. If you want center mount sights go fly British.

Germans didn't just close the left eye, they also had to move their head to the right and forward ever so slightly.

Please refer to this thread I started on a similar topic a while ago.

http://forum.1cpublishing.eu/showthread.php?t=21600

I did the effort to draw a picture in order to better illustrate why the current setup is NOT really realistic.

For simplicity I repost the drawing here.

http://img192.imageshack.us/img192/1...109problem.jpg

The red curve is the approximate curve of my TrackIR profile. It indicates the SPEED with which TrackIR transforms my head movement into game. So for a head displacement of x cm I get a displacement velocity of y pixel/s. But as y is speed the displacement ingame obtained for a displacement of x cm is not z pixel with z = k*x (k being a constant factor to translate head displacement into pixel displacement) but it is x0 + k*x^2 so the square of the displacement. You can easily deduce that the further the displacement the quicker the movement I obtain ingame. So being off-centre the slightest head movement, even if it is just because I cannot hold my head that steady has so much more impact than on centre.

So for centre sights you have to fight:
- head shake due to manoeuvering and g-effects

For off-centre sights you have to fight:
- head shake due to manoeuvering and g-effects
- big impact on sight due to slightly unsteady physical head

Your body does NOT have a different displacement speed wether you lean to the right or not at all.

TrackIR DOES have a different displacement speed wether you lean to the right or not at all.

This makes off-centre sights much more difficult to aim with than centre sights. If in reality it would have been equally more difficult to aim with an off-centre sight the Germans would have quickly moved it to the centre. Proof that it was no deal at all is that the off-centre position was used till the end.


Proposed solution that should accomodate everybody imho:

- For aiming I lean sideways so that I can see the circle.

- I press a button that "saves" the position as long as I keep the button pushed. I can look around like normally and like in any other plane with no shift+f1. But when I return to forward view I am in the "saved" position as long as the button is still pressed.

- When I am done with aiming I release button and I jump back to cockpit centred view.

Keep it the way it is, please :-)
As Kimosabi (and in different words Cheesehawk) said...it is part of the simulation

No trained marksman ever closes an eye.

:grin:

Can anyone top this post?

Stay tuned!

Oh come on, stormcrow,
just practice a little with your TrackIR and soon there won't be a reason to change a thing.
shouldn't be too hard to lean left a little for shooting.
quite a good exercise to keep your head steady. if you can not do it you really should practise..
or you try to tweak your trackIR profile.
always try to find the mistake on your end first.
I think the present solution works very well, no need to change.
sorry.

How conservative you all are :)

I make a proposition that allows everyone to aim his fashion (it won't even prevent you to use the current way), which is at LEAST as realistic as current state if not more realistic, but all you do is to pressume falsely that I don't have enough flight time with the 109. :)

I like it the way it is.

It makes the German fighters feel different.

It works just fine for me with 6DOF TrackIR 5

Lean a little to the right - presto - crosshairs.

In all the years of Il2, I have to admit - I never heard this one.

S!

Gunny

Because in IL2 old you got view through off-centre sight by shift+f1 :grin: without limitation of virtual head movement

Like most of you have already stated, leave it the way it is. Put a little time in and tweak your TrackIr profiles or use the required buttons to do the job. This is a simulation not a semi-lation.

F

You haven't bin round these har parts fer long pilgrim! Have ye?

http://www.socalvalue.com/airace/bf-...pit_photo2.jpg


sorry OP, it looks like you lose out to real life

I have no problems with the gunsights and like them as they are. I think its great.

Apparently so.

In this thread we've learned that BF-109 pilots really did close one eye and lean over to the right just to be able to see the gunsight.

Therefore to maintain such high standards of historical accuracy the player should have to do the same.

After all it's not a 'semi-lation'!

nice pic wolf, but whom ever took the picture was not sitting in the plane (unless he had no legs) and it is not centered its to the left which exaggerated the off center position of the revi.
The revi being off center is fine but the Zooming forward i do not think is realistic (unless someone has source to prove other wise i would like to see it)

The cockpit of a 109 is like the drivers seat of a sub compact car with the seat pushed ALL the way forward!:mrgreen:

We can't depend on TrackIR, because the most of the people just don't have it. Developers need's to find a solucion. And even with trackir, there is sime problems.

In the real world, the revi can be in the left or in the right. Every german pilot choose his best gunnery eye and they don't look at the revi. Pilot look to the enemy, and the revi form just "join" the view without been any kind of problem.

March, maybe april.. right ;)

I'm leavin' anyway, no more Grizz...

well, let's just remove the rudder axis then, since not everybody has rudder pedals..

WTF ???

Or in the middle....BF-110.

Here's a (very) rough mock up of what the 109 pilot would see (assuming he wasn't a Cyclops). Never mind this leaning over to the right nonsense. If CoD wants to be as realistic as possible then this is what we should have.

http://img580.imageshack.us/img580/4070/revi.jpg

http://www.asisbiz.com/il2/Bf-109E/M...Cockpit-01.jpg

better?

Whilst in cockpit, in legacy view, hold right mouse button down, and drag mouse slightly to the right.

Head view should now be aligned with the sight reticule, and any subsequent movement of the hat-switch, will recentre to your new position; until you activate another set view, which will restore the centre default position.

Then press CTRL-E...

+1

Ta, Jimmy....i've already been assimilated into the Track-IR collective, though. It's too late for me, save yourself!...etc...etc.

I think this one is by far the best , you can see just where it was mounted in the dash
http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_hf92i8rLnr...ntsNiceice.jpg

and here is a nice photo that lets you know how close you are to it

http://www.taphilo.com/photo/picture...9E-3-pilot.jpg

S!

To keep both sides happy:
Leave the default view the way it is please! It feels right and is easy to use.

But do whatever you want with the Shift + F1 as I'm sure the 6DOF crowd (like me) don't use it or need it.

Pilots did alter their position slightly to use gun sights, I've read this in many accounts, even for centred mounted ones, they would hunch forward a bit.

The post is pointless really, since the devs won't (shouldn't) look past the title. You can go back to playing wings of hawks now Lixma.

F

I don't think the sperglords here would appreciate that much realism. It would make them feel bad about their TrackIR purchases losing some edge against mouse/hat people.

I thought about offering this idea in the first place but thought that, aesthetically, a centralized Revi would be a better idea.

But, yeah. If we're after realism then something like that picture is the way to go.

Can you bind viewing position/angles? Since, in theory, everyone have 6-DoF view now, even without Track IR, I would think you could use keyboard keys to shift the head around to center it on the sights, and then save it as a view position favorite.

In fact, considering that we should now all have 6DoF, I would think it only reasonable to be able to define your own hotkey view positions.

Harry Voyager

i would like press shift f-1 but without zoom.

A simple key press to align the gunsight, but without that awful zoom feature, is all that is needed to keep everyone happy.
Like in the old series.

The uber realism crowd can simply ignore it, and those who don't mind conceding that tiny bit of realism can use it. Simple. Everyone is happy.

And about the realism...are icons and big arrows realistic? What about external views?
Maps? Minimap paths? Info windows?
Give me a break.

Rattlehead +1

GH

I have more of an issue with the Stuka in this regard. When locked into the sight you cannot look far enough to the left or right enough to be able to judge your dive angle.

IMHO for the Stuka you shoould be able to llok further to the right when locked into the sight so you can see the angle lines on the cockpit.

otherwise accurate dive bombing is really quite difficult.

hey developers! patch the BF109 gunsights, please !!!!!!
 

... Sorry, but I can only close my right eye thats why I shoot a gun as a lefthander. Actually I am a righthander!

But I must say, the gunsights in the BF109 in Cliffs of Dover are a pain in the a... No british plane has such weird gunsights.
And its not true that german pilots had to aim with one eye closed because of their gunsights, that is rubbish!
I knew a real german pilot of that time and he would tell you its crap. The sight was not exactly positioned in the center, ok you had to lean a bit forward also ok, but you did not have to twist yourself like a corkscrew like you have to do in Cliffs of Dover just to see the crosshairs!
Aiming with only one eye is also crap, you loose the in depth perception and you have no feeling for distance anymore.

I have track-IR4 and it works well with 6DOF and all that comes with it.
I dont intend to buy track-IR5 just because of that messed up gunsight of the 109!
You can use it but you have to move and twist arround in your cockpit in order to see the crosshairs, thats rediculous and dont tell me real pilots also had to do that!
Make it usable like the one in the old IL2 flightsim (and that was not arcade)!
This one here is a joke!
:evil:

... who aims with a mouse button in a flightsim? You better go and "play" birds of prey, sorry.
All this move your head to the right twist a bit and close your eye shit is crap, nobody ever aimed like that!
:evil:

what you're saying there flies in the face of historical accuracy which has been presented... can you back up, with historically accurate data, what you're whinging about there?

I say keep the sight where it is historically but allow to switch to sight view with pressed button. I proposed a solution that me thinks does the trick and still sticks to realism as closely as possible and should allow still the immersivity and allow nonetheless to have realistic aiming with 109 sight. And it would even allow people who like the current way to continue.

Solution:
A button push should save temporarily the current head position like shift+f1 in old IL2. As long as this button is pushed this new position is maintained until the button is released. Of course head shake and g effects would be still working. So for aiming I would have to lean to the right finding the good position for aiming (which could be also quite difficult in the outcome), I press button and keep it pushed. So now my head position is locked to this saved position and I can view normally as I would with normal centre head position. I now have to steer and shoot while keeping the button constantly pushed (not THAT easy to do) in order to stay centred on sight. When I release my head will jump back to cockpit centre position. If you prefer the old ways you still could just lean right.

Those people shouting that this would dump down realism just don't understand that this thread is there because of available computer hardware which makes aiming with 109 currently absolutely unrealistic.

Ahahahahaha, if you ever manage to shoot down Jimmy just one time in your flying time, you'll feel like a real winner ;)

I think what Rattlehead suggests is the best solution.
We're walking in a grey area when it comes to defending absolute realism in a pc flight simulator, therefore it might be wise to get it like in IL-2.

Not gonna happen. They will never, ever move the sight in the bf109. This game is about realism. Luthier and the dev team will never compromise the models. And i hope they never do!
After playing the game awhile you won't even bother using the sight. You will "know" when to fire anyways.

historical accuracy? HA! From where do you get your "historical accuracy"?
:lol:
Unfortunately I cant ask this former pilot anymore because he is dead for 6 years now but he would tell you the same and by the way, I am not whining! I just state something concerning that "highly accurate" flightsim!

(but dont get me wrong, apart from certain "bugs" its a great new sim and I like it :) they only should have ironed out the many bugs before releasing the game)

If they change the position of the gunsight of german aircraft I will snap my CD in half.

Go fly another plane or play another game if you don't like this one.

You do realize you can set this all yourself, with a mouse?

oh for crying out loud. its not that freakin hard to aim in a 109.

i have track ir3 and with a little tweaking to my profile it works just fine with the me109 gunsight.

good grief, next thing you know people will be asking to get rid of the bouncy gauges and the spits neg g cut out :confused:.

A lot of people(with trackIR) in this thread have given this type of reaction. You're basically saying that people without trackIR can get bent. If the current system is working for because you're using trackIR that's fine but don't come here and post about a feature you're not even using.

When you use the loosen straps function now your FOV changes which is bad because you lose situational awareness. Just remove the zoom and it's fine.

And yes I know that i can easily do this with the mouse but it's pain having to reposition my view using the mouse and it can't be done quickly.

+1

I love the viewtype in CoD. It doesn`t feel any different from that of IL2 though the headshake makes deflection shooting something exceptional. I don`t have a problem with that. Instead of whining I just keep training, right now the thing I need is good stick settings to find that smooth lead for deflection shots.

I just hope I can change the vertical convergence of the guns - default is something I would never use.

I use a mouse on left side for my situational awareness for many years now. In COD it takes less than a second to get to line up your sight. It might feel longer to some because at the moment they need to think what to press and what to move. As many of you have said already, once you do it a few hundred times, it becomes a reflex and it WILL get faster.
I also have trackIR, you can do the same thing. Get your profile right for you, look up the pertaining keys and set them to get in and out on a cue (e.g your bandit just went left). I am much slower with the Track IR but much faster than a week ago.
It can be done, gentlemen and it is gratifying.
After all, why shouldn't the pilot that put the effort have an advantage?

PURE BULLSHIT

If you dont have track ir get free track, if you don't like free track use your mouse.

Seriously are you guys seriously telling me your too s***** to work your damned mouse, I will post a video if you want me too.



Simply hold down the middle mouse and right mouse button and this allows you to move your position along the Y plane and therefore position your head your head directly behind the gunsight..............................SIMPLE

I took me 2 seconds....

EXACTLY you hit the nail on the head, the head shaking has made life harder FOR EVERYONE.

I have track IR and the head shaking has made it harder/realistic to aim.

actually, I want a digital gauges because the needles......

It's fine the way it is, and 'realistic' whether you like it or not. The Luftwafflers are always the most vociferous of complainants in sims though, even their Central Powers equivalents (who I pretty much know are by and large the exact same people lol) are now getting captured Aldis and Reflector sights in Rise of Flight. LOL! (Actually I don't care and I'm all for the field mod idea, but they do have a way of getting what they want. This time, the parties over!)

Neeeiiiiinnn, verdammt! I can't get the hang of it, its not fair! Suck it down, Kameraden. :grin: No one said it was going to be easy. :grin:

Hehehe. :grin:

Hihihi, mh, what was it again with the bouncing needles and the cut out thing? ROFL

The point being is that it should not require any effort at all to see the reticle on the BF-109.

Leaning to the right = not realistic.

Shift-F1 = not realistic.

Messing about with mouse = not realistic.

Centralised Revi = not realistic.

As witnessed here by the wailing and gnashing of teeth people seem to rate 'cosmetic realism' above 'functional realism'.

Visible reticle = Realistic.

http://img580.imageshack.us/img580/4070/revi.jpg

You do realize the sight only reflects on the small rectangular piece of glass, not the entire cockpit :confused: Hence the angle of the small piece of glass.

I am using Track ir, so no problem with the gunsight. I set the neutral position slightly to the right and voilà! gunsight centered, problem solved.
But for people without track ir, it would be good to have an off center default view, because using shift+F1 is very annoying.

Just don't put the revi in the center! Cod is supposed to be a simulation and not an arcade air combat game!

Why is visible reticle realistic? Just curious as I don't understand.

I want the bouncing needles back Stormcrow, lol. The cut out was way over done and you know it. :grin:

On a serious note though, I think they went a bit too far the other way RE: Cut out TBH, but that's for another thread. ;)

Just having a laugh man, this is always par for the course.
:grin: 'The Battle of France is over....Now the Battle of the Sim Forums is upon us'. I fly both sides, lots of love for the 109 too. :grin:

You do realize the sight only reflects on the small rectangular piece of glass, not the entire cockpit Hence the angle of the small piece of glass.

Ding Ding, we have a winnah! ;)

Hell, lets just mount a Merlin to the 109s while we're at it.

You do realize how Revi sights worked?

The Revi was used with both eyes open. The reticle image was formed fully on the right eye. No leaning necessary.

Think most pople with TrackIR completly missed whats been asked for.


Keep the ctrl F1 but make it like in IL2, that is, no zoom.

With ctrl F1, as it is now, u CANNOT look 135 degrees to the sides or look back.

U have the massive canopy bars on the sides right in the field of view when lookin left and right with ctrlF1 enabled and zoomed in as icing on the cake.


Realistic, dont think so.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WrjwaqZfjIY

Your wrong, you had to lean with slightly with the 109 and 190.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Blem3FlkaMc

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EayasHQYEGM&NR=1

You know, that wouldn,t be unrealistic at all.

A Buchon is the bastard stepdaughter of a 109.

Fine, in that case we should all petition so that everyone else have to press ctlrF2 to lean forward and hence get the zoomed in restricted field of view per default.

U know, im perfectly capable irl of leaning to the right WITHOUT zooming in/lean forward.

I mean, we all want it to be realistic, right?

THANK YOU, buchon is FUGLY.

Yes, thats why its going to stay like it is right now :cool:

How many eyes does a camera have? = 1

How many eyes does the virtual pilot in CoD have? = 1

How many eyes does a (healthy) 109 pilot have? = 2

An illustration....

Here's what a Cyclops would see if he flew the BF-109. As you can see it's exactly the same standard view we have in CoD. On eye, straight down the centerline....

http://img577.imageshack.us/img577/8366/cyclops.jpg


Now here's what a real 109 pilot would see. A pilot with binocular vision. A pilot with the reticle being projected fully into one eye.....

http://img339.imageshack.us/img339/4853/109kb.jpg


At the moment people are taking the current Cyclops view as 'Realism'.

As it is, it gives a huge unrealistic advantage to 6dof users. I dont have a TrackIR and I'm not going to get one. The great majority of the people buying the game will be similar to me in that regard.

I cannot see why simple offset camera position(without leaning forward, zooming, restricting views) is not possible.

Either offset camera position OR full reticle visible, pseudo-simulating 2-eye stereo vision, with 50% of the reticle glowing maybe 50 or 25% of the intensity.

Get a free track then?

I'm not going to get any kind of head tracking. I've survived now 10 years without.

edit: how silly is this really? TrackIR 6dof crowd forcing people to adapt to THEIR hardware, and unrealistic advantages? Is this a simulation game or not? By whose standards, and to what extent?

I have nearly always shot guns with sights with both eyes open regardless of if they are iron sights or telescopic sights as my brain will happily merge the two images, about the only time I will close one eye is if I want to be deathly accurate to hit the proverbial pea on a post at 600 yards (never managed to hit the pea but have hit the post many times in the past knocking the pea off :rolleyes:)

I call BS.

FFS, go play something easier, will ya? I really can't stand people that want to ruin even the last of this sim (emphasis on "ulation") because it's too f*cking hard for them.
People with learning disabilities belong to a wholly different class of games.

maybe thats why you mostly knock the pea off, close one eye

:-P
maybe then you'll hit it :-P

@Redroach - why dont you go to another forum if you wanna speak to its members like this! he is allowed his opinion so acting like a petty child calling him a retard is just plain rude.

That's your choice not to get tracking hardware. You can also try flying only with a keyboard. But don't blame others for having some king of advantage. Trackir simulates head movements in game, like joystick simulates real controls in a plane.

P.S. Even with the gunsight in the middle you will have problems while manoeuvring and trying to aim without any tracking software/hardware.

And yet another. Now think if Spit and Hurri pilots could only turn their gunsight on when they were leaned forward? Of course you first need to wait that over a second the "loosening straps" takes, and not able to look around you...

IL2's (fb to 1946) system was, and is, lot more realistic than this.

err no, because from the edge of the reflector glass to the centre of the reflector glass is wider than the distance from the centreline of the nose to the centre of the right eye, only if the reflector glass from its left edge to is centre matched the average anatomical distance of the nose centreline vs. right eye would you see the above.

in reality with both eyes open and a wider reflector glass from its left edge to it centre you would get about <~66% of the reticle

To get the effect you depict the reflector glass would need its left edge central to your nose, the glass would need to be ~3” (~75mm) wide (~1.5" (~37.5mm) to reticle centre).

;)

How can you call instant leaning to the gunsight realistic? It isn't. Question is whether looking around while leaned should be available. I don't understand why you can turn your head so little.

IMO its very hard to emulate the movement of a human body using a keyboard joystick or tracking head gear. Catching a ball would be a good example, you just couldn't do it using say a robot hand controlled by keyboard ex.
On the other hand controlling a machine is different, you can copy the movement of levers handles, wheels and switches with gaming devices.
There for making a short cut to make up for the lack of a human body is perfectly acceptable.
There are Axes pilots arguing against a change, but I suspect most opposition would be coming from the British side. After all the way it is centered gun sights have the advantage.
As far as realism go, that's why we have a choice to turn things on and off. If you want more people to play the game and keep it alive in the future you must make exceptions after all how many people started playing IL2 on easy settings(every one if their honest). One more small realism aid isn't going to destroy the game. :grin:

keep the realism please:mad:
don't take anything else......
if you want you can use the mouse hold the button and move it to align:mad:

I just measured the distance from the centre of my nose to middle of my pupil....37mm. Double that and we get 74mm (3 inch).

Now, I just tried Googling 'Revi dimensions' with no appreciable success but 74mm/3 inch on my tape measure looks pretty close to the width of an actual Revi's reflector.

On screen in CoD the left hand edge of the Revi is bang down the centre-line (give or take 2mm), and those figures look good to me and confirm what my tape measure is suggesting.

" besides, our histories of six thousand moons make no mention of any other regions than the two great empires of Lilliput and Blefuscu. Which two mighty powers have, as I was going to tell you, been engaged in a most obstinate war for six-and-thirty moons past. It began upon the following occasion. It is allowed on all hands, that the primitive way of breaking eggs, before we eat them, was upon the larger end; but his present majesty's grandfather, while he was a boy, going to eat an egg, and breaking it according to the ancient practice, happened to cut one of his fingers. Whereupon the emperor his father published an edict, commanding all his subjects, upon great penalties, to break the smaller end of their eggs. The people so highly resented this law, that our histories tell us, there have been six rebellions raised on that account; wherein one emperor lost his life, and another his crown. These civil commotions were constantly fomented by the monarchs of Blefuscu; and when they were quelled, the exiles always fled for refuge to that empire. It is computed that eleven thousand persons have at several times suffered death, rather than submit to break their eggs at the smaller end. Many hundred large volumes have been published upon this controversy: but the books of the Big-endians have been long forbidden, and the whole party rendered incapable by law of holding employments. During the course of these troubles, the emperors of Blefusca did frequently expostulate by their ambassadors, accusing us of making a schism in religion, by offending against a fundamental doctrine of our great prophet Lustrog, in the fifty-fourth chapter of the Blundecral (which is their Alcoran). This, however, is thought to be a mere strain upon the text; for the words are these: 'that all true believers break their eggs at the convenient end.'

And which is the convenient end, seems, in my humble opinion to be left to every man's conscience, or at least in the power of the chief magistrate to determine. Now, the Big-endian exiles have found so much credit in the emperor of Blefuscu's court, and so much private assistance and encouragement from their party here at home, that a bloody war has been carried on between the two empires for six-and-thirty moons, with various success; during which time we have lost forty capital ships, and a much a greater number of smaller vessels, together with thirty thousand of our best seamen and soldiers; and the damage received by the enemy is reckoned to be somewhat greater than ours. However, they have now equipped a numerous fleet, and are just preparing to make a descent upon us; and his imperial majesty, placing great confidence in your valour and strength, has commanded me to lay this account of his affairs before you."

- J Swift

Actually thinking about it I don't think that Lixma's picture is realistic.

BUT:
It might be possible that in fact one did not have to lean right for aim. It depends on how the reflector glas actually worked.

As far as I understood reflector sights the trick is to project light on a surface that is reflected so that the pilot can see it. Now from school we know that inbound angle = outbound angle. That is the benefit of the reflector sight with respect to iron sights because this makes the aiming point almost independent of small head movements. The image will slightly move but it won't impact the aiming as much.

A little picture about the basic principle after which to my understanding a reflector sight works. For simplicity I moved the light source into the same horizontal plane as the eye but the principle won't change at all with a 90° moved light source:

http://img825.imageshack.us/img825/5...ightbasics.jpg

The angle between the reflector glas and the light beam emanating from the light source is equal to the line of sight when the eye is on the image. That's the basical law of optical physics.

Now what happens if the reflector glas is slightly inclined sideways? Yes, the angle between the light beam and the reflector glas decreases and so the angle between reflector sight and the eye line of view. This itself increases the angle between the light beam and the eye line of view so that the image can be seen from further aside. But it will be on the reflector glas and not on the window.

Here a drawing with the setup as described. I exagerated on purpose the inclination of the reflector side to better make the effect visible. Please also keep in mind that with appropriate glas cristal design it should be possible to obtain the same optical result without really inclining the reflector glas.

http://img713.imageshack.us/img713/1...tinclinedr.jpg

My strong feeling is that taking into account the tight cockpit dimensions of the 109 and the not so far off-centre position of the reflector sight a very very very tiny inclination would have been enough to allow seeing the image without leaning sideways.

Anyhow I agree with drewpee. I mean we're not talking about making the 109 turn better than the spit. We talk about computer hardware limitations in simulations and as far as I see it there's absolutely no loss in realism if the sights can be recentred on a button push (I even suggested something that is inbetween the current status and old IL2 days).

Wolf you make my head hurt. LOL
But I do see your comparison. ;)

Why not?

1: You're sat in a 109.

2: Looking straight ahead.

3: Both eyes open.

4: Revi offset to project the reticle image directly into your right eye only.

I submit your view would be more or less like this..... (paintshop skills notwithstanding)

http://img339.imageshack.us/img339/4853/109kb.jpg

What would you see?