Some tabloid employees among us?
 

Dear community fellows,

I'm starting to be really p***d off. Some people here jumps on every dead horse to prove that CoD is a lemon. Multi-core, 64 bit, all sort of forum rubbish is thrown in quickly and heartily as a certain and definitive piece of information.
Some people look even taking a big pleasure in this, and instead of VERIFYING BY THEIR OWN BEFORE POSTING RUBBISH they put the blame on Luthier & Oleg, leaving them the task of demonstrating that lies are lies, rubbish is rubbish, false information is false. We know the game: throw shite, and let the poor chap cleaning the mess. Some shyte stains will stay on their work. Too easy, and unfair. Tabloids stuff.

Well, it time that this community shows some solid support to Luthier, and respect for the team who worked hard to bring us this (future) masterrpiece of simulation.

I HIGHLY RESPECT THE WORK OF PEOPLE LIKE LUTHIER, PUTTING THEIR PROFESSIONAL CREDIBILITY AT STAKE on such a complex simulation, done with limited budget.

I HIGHLY DISRESPECT PEOPLE throwing disinformation, unverified rumors and selling them as absolute facts. They hijack the forum's positive energies. The multicore issue is an exemple. I WON'T TOLERATE THIS ANYMORE.


Luthier and team, keep up the good work.

Cheers,
Insuber

Spot on but now there are too many if these threads, im going to make a "I'm cancelling my pre-order" thread to restore some balance ;)

Either that or wait for tree to start spreading his false information in this thread...

This is a forum.

forum /ˈfɔːrəm/
▶noun (pl. forums)
1- a meeting or medium for an exchange of views.


If you can't report and discuss issues (or supposed issues) here, then it's not a forum anymore. The fact is at this time, this game has potential, but is crippled with technical issues. As long as the posts are not offensive, I don't see the problem.

The problem is to isolate real problems from false problems. Someone here is spreading FALSE and UNVERIFIED information, without taking 5 minutes to check them. That's not the purpose of a forum, we are not a tabloid.

And wasting everyone's time is very offensive.

Kinda odd that nobody's yet to blame steam for the problems. I mean why blame oleg, luthier and ubi only when we can spread the hate even more!

I'll start:

I heard a guy translated a russian review in wich they declared that steam drops the fps by 20% on low end machines. Combine that with the ubi filter that drops it buy 35%, oleg's color corrections by 25% and luthier's flying hat by 15% we're left with 5% of the intended fps! I'm going to cancel all my preoders and buy random game X instead! :evil:

Surely selling a game that doesn't work is false information, I mean these things do work both ways dont they??

Or you will put a shotgun in my face... like you posted earlier??

In what way does this as-yet unreleased game not work, then? Other than not being released of course. There are some pretty hefty bugs, but will they be present on Thursday, that is the question?

Well the western market is stuck with the epilepsy filter, it appears thats a done deal for us we wont get the option to disable apparently. But like you say Thursday could see a whole change but I have to say that it would be a tremendous effort if they resolve the problems by then.

Not much they can do about the epilepsy filter I guess. Ubi's decision. Interesting that something that apparently affects between 0.015-0.025% of the human population could suddenly be so important. Here's hoping. Luthier's post on sukhoi.ru looks encouraging, with the source of the micro-freezes and the freezes as aircraft approach having been discovered and worked on for a patch this week sometime.

Do the duck test;

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:The_duck_test

Oh, come on Tree. Do you really think that is a sensible and fair way of summing up CoD (and that's without taking into account the fact that you don't even have the game yet)? Do you not think your statement is a little naive, over simplistic, misplaced and antagonistic?

So, that's it then. According to you CoD "doesn't work". And then what Tree? What do you advise? That no one buys this game because we've all been led up the garden path by these disingenuous developers/publishers? Where would that leave us then? Ooh, let me think. Ah yes, got it ... there'd be no IL2 CoD for us to play with ... ever.

Look, the reality is that our hobby is niche, and therein lies the problem. The numbers of global players are small and so development/publishing budgets will be relatively small. Added to this the fact that that flight sims are inherently complex creatures, they will always be released a little buggy. That is our world, and we need to understand that and put up with it. The good news is that Oleg and team are passionate about their projects and they have a proven track record of getting things right. They will get this right, if not on initial release, in subsequent patches. BUT, they will only get this right if we let them. We need to stop all this negative crap and get behind 1C and give them the support the bloody deserve. Or perhaps you'd rather buy one of the many other WWII flight sims on the market with a proven 10+ year pedigree?

PPanPan out

No I have never advised that no-one buys the game, I have never posted that anywhere, my main concerns is that the Dev's knew this game wouldn't run well out of the box, right up to release we were asking that they show us some in game footage but they refused, now I know that they have issues but a statement before release would of been the most honest and best way forward and I'm sure we would have bought them more time, but to release it knowing it wouldn't run at all well shows a lack of respect to the buying public in my opinion.
I will say this though It took some pretty big brass balls to go to the stores and sign autographs and watch people spend their cash knowing there are inherent problems within the product. Respect works both ways here, people tell me all the time 'where is your respect' well mine is currently in my pocket and soon to be spent on this title, I would expect some back in return along with a little honesty.

Tree, what do you mean doesn't work, from the videos I have seen it works, although it needs some tweaking and there are some hoped for features missing, all these can be corrected, but it does work, time to drop the crusade and admit that although some of your concerns were correct most things you said have now been proven incorrect or at least vastly overstated, don't worry, like RBJ etc you will be remembered with some humour once this game has had some time to develop further, I'll personally always picture you with a tinfoil hat on and a placard with I told you so written on it :rolleyes:

The devs really need to start communicating here more to allay some of these forum troubles. A vacuum will always be filled and many on this forum are already playing, regardless of whether this was intended or not.

lol, I like it. :grin:

If its so prevalent and important why have we not seen it added to the original IL2 and how many lawsuits have they gotten from IL2 not having it?? none!

Well, the game didn't work at the release.

You have to take into account that this game is not about: get one plane and fly around and do acrobatics with fps drops every 5 sec.

I don't have the game myself, but I spoke with someone who has it, and who also has a solid gaming rig, and believe me - they released an unplayable game without a single word of warning.
It's a fact.
They swindled people out of money.

These forums are a shame. Could someone please tell me one flight sim that's been released in the last 5 years that worked perfectly on release? Do you negative Nancy's really think that Luthier and team aren't going to be able to optimize the game and make it run well?

I take it everyone forgot about the beta leak footage that didn't stutter around? I take it everyone forgot about the Ignor show footage done with cell phone cameras that looked fairly smooth? That was on an i5 with 2gigs of ram.

If anyone remembers, when IL2 was originally released people were trying to run it with P386/486's. Do you know how ancient those are now? I'm glad that the game will bring a huge system to it's knees (even after optimization) that just shows how complex of a game engine we are dealing with. It also shows just how much potential we have for years to come.

It's as if some of you people think the team worked 6 years to bring you a pile of crap. I imagine Luthier and team are working 24 hours a day to try to get some sort of patch ready to smooth it out. Judging by some of the posts on these forums, you people are some ungrateful bastards.

No wonder the simming business is such a small niche market. Really smooth move treating the ONLY developer to make a quality WWII air combat simulation in the last 10 years like a piece of crap. These people don't do this to get rich. Hell, the pilot bail-out animation in this sim looks better than any first person shooter game I've ever seen. Don't you realize this company could be making stuff for the masses and making some huge money with their talent? Show some respect. Show some support. Show a little praise FFS.

I've been waiting for this forever. I'm very happy it finally got released. I could sit in the cockpit and flip the switches for hours in itself. I will be flying around every single map by myself for hours with a big shit eating grin on my face, just enjoying the fact that I'm actually flying what I've been waiting for all this time. That's what flight simulation is all about and judging by some of the positive postings I've read about CoD, it will probably blow my mind the 1st time I spawn into an aircraft.

Be happy folks. I know I'm smiling just thinking about the chance to finally get this title. I've seen enough videos from the release version to make my jaw drop already. Those of you cancelling your preorder are simply not flight simmers or have no idea what kind of support you will have with 1c. IL2 gave us 10 years. CoD will probably give us that and more! Pretty cheap price IMO. There isn't a flight sim I haven't bought in the last 5 years, regardless of type, and regardless of how much I play it, just to show my support for those people who make my favorite types of games.

Thanks Oleg and team!

We don't know yet
- if the filter will stay for the western version (there is a possibility Ubi decides to take it out or make it optional if that is feasible technically)
- what is the real performance loss from this filter. Luthier said 10 fps on low end machines, but given the track record on communications, sorry, I have my doubt. some already report a loss of about 2-4 fps http://forum.1cpublishing.eu/showthread.php?t=19604 , some say it's more (see mysticpuma thread)


There is obviously some work to be done about something else than the filter.

Oh, and I do not see what gain Ubi would have to trash the game. If it doesn't sell well, it's Ubi loss too.

I agree with Bliss in every way!

See you all in the skies,

Homuth

They had two choices, release the game in this state OR not release it at all, EVER! Which one would you rather have?

We dont know that Addman, I've not heard that anywhere else.

Or release it llater, after optimization.

Why would that not be a choice?

I would really appreciate if the forum moderators gave a massive swipe to all this nonsense, can we hear from one of you mods on this subject please?!

Budget. Money. Pesos. Rupies, Rubles, euros, dollars. Run out. Need fresh cash. Oleg's interview of 2009 said that they needed to finish and publish the game before December 2010.

Not difficult to understand, unless you live in an ideal world where people work for free, just for the pleasure of it.

That's just it! isn't it? Everybody's keep "hearing things" and the poop fan turns on full speed. Anywho, games get rushed when money is tight, fact! If it wasn't why didn't they release the game like 2 years ago if they just wanted a quick buck?

Question still remains, unfinished game or no game at all, what's your preference?

I really don't want to get entangled in this trench war that is being fought here over the last couple of days, but why is no one trying to cover the middle ground?

We are in a rather unique situation here that has shown its ugly face now.

This is a niche market with a target audicence mostly well educated on the subject and 1C is the only company covering it. The result is a highly demanding yet faithful customer base that needs to be handled with care.

It has displayed an enormous amount of patience while waiting for the release of this new game, which is an undeniable fact, relying heavily on the communication with the head of development. That way, they felt very close to the development process while not actually knowing a lot about what was really going on. Except for the latter half of last year, the hard evidences (screens etc.) have been very scarce and not in line with the prospect of future glory that should be expected of CoD as announced by the dev team.

The weeks before release then were marked by announcments that crucial features wouldn't make the release and that it is not foreseeable when they will be implemented in a functional form.

Still faithful our Russian friends have ventured off into the unknown and bought the game only to find out that it just doesn't work properly and falls short in a number of crucial ways.

So here we are now. A community deeply shaken by what has happened and most of us are not sure what to make of the situation. Of course, there are the "I told you" types, rightfully pointing out that the lack of answers to questions asking for hard facts made this whole release fishy and the fanboys who will do no matter what to protect their beloved developer from any possible harm, also rightful in their doing. Yet neither position will get us out of the current misery.

What is needed now is to calm down, all of us, and to invite the head of development to a "round table" for a honest assessment of the situation.

Unfinished but playable game.
And print on the box 'This game is unfinished'


I ask you, when did you realise that this game is 'unfinished' (read unplayable)?
Answer: AFTER it was released.
Maybe they had to rush it, I don't mind. I just can't understand why someone haven't stated clearly before release that the game is unfinished, barely runs, is basically a beta.

If it was clear that you're going to buy a beta, it would be a totally different story.

Except this article. Luthier even confirms it later in the thread. He also says it is a temporary fix, and as soon as they are able to smooth out the offending features to be complaint the filter will be removed. Which means? We will get frame rates back. but there will likely be a negligible drop in visual fidelity. In the end I think virtually no one would be able to say what has been made epileptic friendly and what hasn't. I also seem to recall them saying they expect to have a fix within days or short weeks.

Does it suck that it was released with this "feature" that is causing such problems? Yes. Will it always be this way? No. Should we keep beating this dead horse? No, unless it doesn't get fixed, but then we'd still be beating a dead horse; which, hopefully most of you understand, accomplishes nothing.

Edit: WTH? Tree you even posted several replies in that thread....Are you telling me you either ignored or completely discounted the article in the OP?!

Talk it to death...

No way anyone is going to change a darn thing about BOB COD.

Constructive, sensible explanations will aide developers to get it what you think is right.

Rants, whines and complaints won't even be read.

Pick your poison, you might actually be someone competent enough to share some viable information that might help developers.

Then if you only complain... "who cares what you think" is generally the attitude of persons reading your postings.

Not saying the developers didn't expect this kind of barrage of rants, whines and complaints. Oleg has often expressed his disdain for all the non-constructive junk people say. Recently, there were postings where he expressed such disdain, and mentioned quitting.

I can tell you this much... You don't want Oleg to quit, because your future with competent air combat simulation will be over, over, over. ---

LOL! When you buy eggs, you want them to print on the shell "this chicken is unfinished"? :D Come on, you can't be serious ...

Because apparently they had already ran out of money by November. If you dig a bit deeper in the forum and search previous posts, it was Oleg's own words saying that's why they wanted to release back then, further delays would make the project financially non-viable.



Now why do you have to go all reasonable on everyone and spoil the fun :-P
In all seriousness, this is my assessment as well:

1) It has issues while it's still great in some things. The single main issue is that it's inconsistent and unstable a lot of times. Yes, it needs work, possibly lots of it. No, the basic premise doesn't suck at all.
All this game needs to do in order to start rolling properly is to pull a consistent 30 FPS at the specs quoted by its system requirements (at low to medium settings for the minimum specs and medium to high for the recommended ones), nothing more since the gameplay features will cover the rest of the ground, nothing less since anything below 25 FPS can be unplayable.

2) There's too many people who won't take no for an answer and can't cope with others having a different opinion. Half the people are in panic mode and the other half in denial. A substantial part is also changing from one mode to the other depending on whatever snippet of out-of-context information they receive.

I'm going to be honest with you, if this wasn't somewhat getting to me and slightly swaying my mood back and forth too (something which is not easy to do in general, it's actually a feat to get me worried about something like this) i'd be laughing all day long over the madness of it all, instead of only intermittently like i do now :-P



Actually, even footage with the filter enabled clearly shows effects like tracers, prop discs (not from all angles though and without the sun reflection when viewed head on), muzzle flashes and exhaust flames. Which leads me to believe that when they rework the effects it won't be a case of "omg, where's my fancy flashes?", they will probably make effect work on a lower contrast and that will be it.

I think i know what they meant when they said the game went off the scale in the epilepsy testing due to the effects used. Watch how the cockpit starts flashing like a Xmas tree when the guns are fired in one of the early videos here, just jump to the 20 second mark and watch the reflections on the canopy framing: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y4Fx3pHQFHk

To be honest, if it's that kind of stuff that will get edited out i have no problem. It's minor and to be honest, after i noticed it it's so easy to focus on that it would not let me concentrate properly on flying the airplane. It might be realistic, but that doesn't mean it wouldn't be detrimental to my ability to play the game for a long period of time even if i didn't get epileptic seizures. I'm surprised i didn't notice it earlier, this is a very well done effect and i guess it's realistic, but it can also give you a very nice headache after a few hours of gameplay :-P

So, if it's stuff like that they are toning down i have no problem with it. In fact, in almost every player submitted video i've seen the rest of the effects are there, from tracers to rounds impacting on the target, engine fires, everything.

Finally, in a few months there will be an SDK released so that we can make mods for the game. If someone wants to, they can probably uninstall and reinstall their Russian version, not patch it, extract the original effects and offer them as a 3rd party mod: we can get all the seizure-inducing effects we want and the developer studio will not be liable for any kind of damages, problem solved.

LOL, there's no logic in what you say, you know ;-)


When I want to buy an egg, I buy an egg.

If I buy a chicken, and get the egg instead... well, that's where the problem is.

So I say they could at least state clearly before delivering the egg: 'this chicken is unfinished', so ppl wouldn't think they're buying chickens.

LOL, that was funny, made me laugh (not in a piss taking way, just funny):grin:

People have every right to be disappointed, i've got the russian version and its a mess.

Yea its not the version we would have got in the uk, but i cant see that being any better. And remember that comes with the permanent filter, so it can only be worse.

The problem is that most of those saying how bad the game is have never tried it. They're jumoing to conclusions based on a youtube clip, without knowing how that PC was setup, whether they had the latest patch, whether there's a new patch on the way, etc. According to Ilya there are problems, but we don't officially know what's happening yet, and remember, it hasn't actually been released here yet.

Seconded. I imagine they must be well stressed at the moment. IL2 is my favoruite game of all time, and I consider it quite important to me that CoD lives up to the development teams ambitions - but I imagine it means even more to the team that have spent 6 years (or 4 or whatever it is) of their lives developing it. So good luck team.

No, Just no. This is what the whole thread is about. Misinformation. Luthier said the filter is a temporary fix. It is just there until they get the issues that could cause an epileptic episode fixed. Read the articles that are linked. Don't just listen to the woe is me mouth breathing tinfoil hat crowd. I posted the link and that explanation just like 6 posts up.

Er, but he has quit hasn't he? He's already started doing less with the team, and is due to leave completely soon. I haven't just made that up?

No, he is on the record as saying he was just frustrated. He is still in gaming, and looking for new partnerships in the gaming industry. He has not said he's leaving 1C Maddox, and reiterated that he isn't leaving gaming. Just looking for a new project. The whole Oleg is leaving forever doom brigade came from some off handed comment he made on Youtube at the end of an argument with some juvenile poster.

This is Exactly what the OP was talking about. Taking rumor and here say and spinning it as absolute fact. That is for tabloid journalists, and doesn't add or improve the topics at hand. Being worried about the known performance issues with the game, and being uncertain about whether or not you get it is fine, but using speculation, misinformation, rumor, and untruths and stating them as fact is unacceptable and down right despicable.

I do think that it is a really bad move from UBI to release this game now and it will cause great damage. I do remember already long time a go reading somewhere that the latest possible release date for the game is 31 of march 2011, so it is probably the last date they could release it without the contract falling through or something..

..but CoD will be butchered in the reviews for sure.

Especially if there is truth to the rumors that the first reviews of multiplayer (on a french forum) have been abysmal..

Agree on the not so good idea to release the game now.

Disagree on the culprit. 1C needed money, they chose the release date, not Ubi.

Oh, I had no idea, thanks for putting me straight.

It would be a great shame if he did leave the IL2 project. I wouldn't complain, it's his life and I'd understand if he was fed-up with us all. And I know he hasn't built this on his own, the team around him are very experienced. But this masterpiece in the making is his vision, and I am quite prepared to beg him to stay if it helps :)