Kill streaks?
 

In Luthier’s video (translated version here) the guy at the end talks about a ‘kill streaks’ idea where you get bonuses to your aircraft (or whatever) after each kill. What does everyone think about this type of concept?

Personally, I think the only pre-requisites for CoD should be 1) having a system with at least the recommended specs, and 2) the willingness to pay for the game. Someone wants to play with their keyboard and mouse? Great, there should be an appropriate server for that. Someone wants to play against their friends and rack up kill streak bonuses (or whatever), then great, they should be able to do that too. Someone wants a full-real server with historical basis? Excellent, make it so. And I’ll be there too. But I will also be on the other servers, showing them how it’s done (hopefully) and welcoming newbs. At least some them will 'graduate', get the necessary gear and learn the finer aspects.

There is too much elitism about flight simming and this is helping to kill the sector. People need an easier introduction to the genre. Otherwise, do you think our CoD purchases alone will pay for years of updates like we had for IL-2, even if they are paid DLC? Nope, not even close. Volume, not quality, of purchasers is what is required to fund game development into the future.

Kill streak hahahaahahahaha this is cliffs of dover not call of duty

Leave and never come back, there is a game called birds of prey for the likes of you already... ;)

+1

That was a irony from presenter, don't take it too seriously :)

There already is a newbie mode just turn off all realism, we don't need to take ideas from games that are killing the fps genre...

I can't be the only one to turn his back on the fps genre cod modern warfare was cool modern warfare 2 just ruined everything.. So bored of it, hopefully red orchestra 2 can bring me back.

Luthier's comments at 10.30 about accessibility? How will this be achieved?

This is a good example of the elitism I was talking about. I prefer full real servers - way to make someone feel welcome!

There's already kill streaks in CoD: Fly, kill, return to base and paint a kill marks on your plane!

And which will have more players? And earn more? And, most importantly, allow its studio to develop the next game? As long as I can enable full real options in the game that are as realistic as possible what do I care what the newbs play?

The problem is , what you asking for (playability with mouse, kill streaks etc...) requires development time, therefore money.

For what result? How many people would really like to fly a PC flight sim with a mouse?

Asking for many features is easy, developping them is not.

I prefer a good & realistic game. It's not elitism, it's just a different genere.
If everything had to please the masses we'd all be playing black ops and listening to lady gaga in no time. No thanks...

That's exactly it though - not everything has to please the masses. But something does. These guys need an accurate WW2 flight sim that is a commercial success to expand, not just an accurate WW2 flight sim.

Luthier specifically talks about making it easier to play with a keyboard in the vid (if the translation is correct...) The object seems to be to get people interested enough to go the next step. I bet a lot, but obviously not enough from Luthier's comment, did this with IL-2 initially.

+1 this game is not aimed at a massive audience any attempt to do so would harm the product in the eyes of the simmers that have been hoping for a new SIM, you will need a joystick to have a go at this game...

By keypads he meant at unrealistic settings you won't need so many levers and sliders to control the engine, or at least that's how I interpreted it!

No, you need a joystick to be good at this game. You shouldn't need a joystick to 'have a go'. Take it up with Luthier. The simmers will buy it anyway as long as the sim realism is there as an option.

Must admit it would be good if he commented on this. The context at 10.30 seems to be about newbs but I don't know for sure. Wish I spoke Russian, could have the game already!

IIRC this feature already is in the CoD, it has been mentioned by luthier. Only you have to paint them yourself. ;)

You just don't get it:) This ought to be combat flight simulator.
Options you suggest would be great, but developing those alongside fullreal would cause much more time and money.

No offense, it is just different genre :)
-m

Luthier said that the game is more friendly for newbies, especially for the ones with keyboards, on low realism settings it's possible to fly with only 4 buttons.

Don't agree with that at all. Combat flight simulators are funded by the Department of Defense, not gamers! I am really happy that they have built a realistic sim but remember it is a game and funded as such. Developing accessible ideas alongside fullreal will bring in more money.

I'm a bit surprised at the hostile reaction to this (wait, no I'm not)

Seems like a valid question to me.
Games developers have realised the best way to keep people playing is to keep giving out unlocks, just look at CoDuty. I've prestiged 7 times and I hate myself for it! For what? new interesting ways to kill stuff and a nice badge...

Problem with unlocks in a Historically accurate sim is that as soon as you apply any new wepon it'll mess the accuracy up.

The only real way I could see this working would be to have (like CoDuty) customisable player cards and ranking (for online) or even a space on your aircraft for unlockable nose art. Nothing too outlandish.


The guy in the video wants a b-17 for killing 20 Spitfires.. I wouldn't be surprised if he's never even played a flight sim before. He dosn't get that the rewards from a flight sim are more cerebral..

Sign of the times.

WTF this is not what I wanted to hear... My past experience with "easing the new comers" has led to a deprecition in complexity that the other end of the spectrum are crying out for.

I know it's a much smaller group at that end but for the no realism guys it will be flash in pot for a majority, usually they are waiting for the next Cod to come out... 1C will receive some money from them buying clod but very few will go on to purchase the next installation..

You still don't get it:) If you ever have developed any serious commercial software, maybe you would understand better.

There are simulators, and there are combat simulator games and there are just games.

No sense to combine them all. Takes too much time and money.

And yes, games sell more than combat simulator games. We all know that :)

Aim for your market and make best possible product to your customers. You just can't please everyone, never, period.

BTW: If my sisters 11 years old child started playing Il2 8 years ago and is still playing, I don't see why someone else could not. And he plays console games too :)

From what I've seen CoD can be very realistic with all features enabled, definitely not less then original IL-2.

Maybe I missed the boat on this one.Online there are already too many point wh*res,shoulder shooters and kill stealers.

I do not think rewarding such behavior is a good thing.

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

The game developer must do everything in its power to make this game as hard as possible to make sure as few people as possible will even bother with it.

That way we can all have that "select few" club we all so much yearn for.

The plus side of that is, of course, that we will have to wait 12-16 months for each update/addon due to money constraints.

They sould also make sure that everyone have to play with the same settings on every single server available. Goes without saying it has to be full real settings, naturally.

Futher more u should have to register your product number for your Track ir5 and Saitek rudder pedals or the game wont start.

Anyone who cant bother with FR isn't cut out for this and should so* off.

Good point but your target market must include newcomers or your customer base will only diminish. Most of those newcomers are not going to want fullreal only immediately, hence the seeming interest in making the game easier to play if required.


I don't understand the point. Are you saying that more 'gamey' settings would encourage this? I certainly agree, if so. Maybe they would be more interested in the alternative 'gamey' servers than fullreal, though.

One of the most miserable time I've had was on line just after the stats had been reset for the month. I had (by pure luck ) managed to get my kill/ deaths up to 4/0! I only needed one more kill to become an Ace!

It took me two days of continually looking over my shoulder, trying picking my moment to get that last kill to make myself ace. I was a complete bundle of nerves, Finally I found my victim! I set myself up perfectly and dove in for the attack!

Just at that time my wife came into the room threw her arms around me and gave me a big pashy kiss on the face and told me it was time for dinner!

I over shot and became disorientated and before I could disenguage myself from my wifes embrace, I'd had been riddled with bullets and cannon shells and my aircraft spiraled down in a flames!

I haven't taken too much note of winning streaks since then! :(

lol, that's the spirit! Captured it perfectly!:grin:

We already have options to make il2 ( and CoD ) easier for new comers. So what is the point of this thread?:) Even really relaxed setting servers are available in Il2.

What I don't want is that this guy in video suggested gettings some new equipments to your plane when you get more kills, something like 20x20mm to your B17 (if I understood it right), or even jet engines.

That would be like Crimson Skies, fun but different game and different market :)

Getting cumulative killmarks to your plane would be nice effect, but I dont't know if it is included in CoD or how difficult it would be to implement.

-m

Kill streaks... Survive ten missions and get a change of underwear?

The point? Listen to Luthier's comments about how IL-2 was not easy enough to get into. Just interested in ways this could be achieved. I already said I don't think the kill streaks would be particularly good.

+1

Point is that they have implemented it:) If someone is not interested to take the learning curve from easiest settings to hardest, then they are just not into WW2 era combat sim games. Or flying for that matter in any form:)

These type of games just are not for casual gamers. It is just a matter of attitude, even in easiest level. Old timers blow new comers from sky, you either take the beating and learn, or you get frustarted and leave the game.

It is just part of human nature:)

-m

Surely the point is to get casual players up in the air and giving a taste of the action very quickly. The tricky bit is to get them to feel that they are missing out if they are flying on wonderwoman view and unlimited ammo :)

JG52Krupi is a good example of a tw@t who you'd never want to play online with or meet in real life because he'd be insufferable.

I'm guessing his views on education are that we shouldn't be teaching this "ABC and 123 bullsh!t", but start the newbs off with University level courses.

I don't understand their reasoning when they say they do not want options that might allow newcomers to join our ranks. It in no way affects their game, but they still don't want others to have it their way. Do they insist that the places they eat only serve the one meal they like and nothing else?

It's like half this forum watch Rainman and decided to model their lives after him.

Well thanks for that!!!

Love how you can make such generalisations about me from a few posts, I was only conveying my surprise that you can control an aircraft with 4 buttons like in battlefield 1942 am I not allowed to think this is not good for a simulation genre game....

For a keyboard gamer they will have to have keyboard only servers as joystick players will dominate them and that will not endear them to this game.

I started off on il2 as an open cockpit flyer and ended up flying in closed cockpit matches, if I can do that then why does the game need to be made any simpler?

But thanks again for the insults, I welcome new players but not at the risk of the of dumbing down the genre....

Il-2 on the easier settings is far from rocket science. If one is not ready to fly it on that setting, then he/she is not ready for simming in any degree.

I dont see why the dev team should go out of their way to make an ultra-unrealistic mode when all these years they have worked hard in the opposite direction to create an authentic flying model.

Easy mode, yeah sure. It's there.
PEWPEW LAZORZ N LVLUPZ, hell no!

Exactly, if they want to fly like that there are plenty of much more open games such as battlefield 1942 that they can "fly" in.

What a lot of narrow-minded buggers we have in here.

I like flying full-switch no externals. But I'm quite aware that there are people that don't. Why shouldn't they be able to fly with four buttons if they want the rest of the trappings of this game to go along with it? Wonderful, destructible aircraft with detailed cockpits, big massive maps and plenty of authentic vehicles to shoot at. As long as my experience doesn't suffer, who cares what they are doing on their servers?

Unlike Call of Duty and other FPSes, this game *already* has toggleable difficulty settings, and so did every iteration of the game right back to Il-2 Sturmovik 1.0 and practically every flight sim before it. The idea that creating options for mainstream gamers is somehow going to destroy the experience of the full-switch players is pretty silly.

It's like saying that the people on FUN4ALL or whatever on Hyperlobby have ruined Il-2 for everyone.

From personal experience flying with a keyboard against someone using a joystick is about as fun as punching yourself in the face, I am open to a wider audience but it can't be tacked on it needs server settings otherwise peoples fun will be short lived, we all know there will be players who would love nothing more than to kill everyone in a newbie server and claim how good they are.


@thegrunge

Thanks for justifying a personal attack on me for speaking my mind....

The real issue is, they have to sell LOTS AND LOTS OF COPIES. If you allow keyboard control then you open up your market. It's not about making it flyable it's getting new folks in the door. Think about your typical fps gamer. No joystick. He's flown the helicopter is Battlefield a few times and hears about IL-2 COD. He picks it up (since you don't NEED a joystick) and within hours is hooked. Goes out buys joystick, pedals and is now a lifelong fan.

So how does enabling keyboard control hurt the genre again?

I thought the killstreaks thing was just a satirical joke. But then, i guess we do have some Germans in these forums. :D :D :D

@Krupi Yeah, this is true. But that's what matchmaking and newbie servers are for. The average skill level in Il-2 servers is already very high for new players, I couldn't say that it makes all that much difference how bad the equipment a newb has as to whether they get stomped over and over or not when they first start. ;)

In any case, many of these casual players are those who will play single player campaigns and online only against friends to start with anyway.

Like maclean says, often competitiveness is all that people will need to go out and invest in new equipment once they decide they like a game.

Of course, I wouldn't mind if we really deserved a DFC we would get summonsed to Buckingham Palace and get it pinned on my Good Old King George Himself!

Hmmmm...

Interesting double-standard you got there, Krupi :rolleyes: Someone needs thicker skin, especially since my post wasn't directly aimed at you. ;)

Damit I did mean to have a smiley face at the end of that post ....

Either way the use of insults here is getting out of hand.

Just realised the OP said eliteism is bad and killstreak in the same thread, killstreaks are seen as a sign of eliteness, but just ruin games in the end.

Kill streaks!? That made me laugh.
Imagine getting a RoC or Top speed bonus for every aircraft you shoot down.
Oh wait, how about a max ammo bonus!

I don't know, I think it's the way they've been done before that's gamey and rubbish, not the idea itself. To take it away from the restricting it to just killstreaks but more about achievements in general...

Imagine for example, you get a small achievement for making 5 kills AND landing safely. The landing safely part would take the gaminess out of it to some degree. Perhaps you could simply unlock a medal to put on your player model in the game.

Or an achievement for keeping every bomber alive from a whole bomber sortie (as long as there are enemy players on the server ;) ).

There are lots of things that could be added that would be fun to achieve AND promote people playing in a sensible way.

+1 Grunch, thats the perfect idea.
and not just keeping your bombers alive but keeping all your freindly fighters alive plus landing safely. That promotes teamplay with i see is lost on some people.

This is just a sad sad example of how unbelievably BAD the gaming community has become. Nothing is sacred anymore. There was a time when releasing a game/sim like this was held in the highest regard BECAUSE it was hard, BECAUSE it was realistic. Now its "kill streak this", and "unlocks that". REALLY? That is where we are in gaming, that even the last bastions of realism niche games are being invaded by azzhats that want instant gratification, "I got 3 kills Im special" crap entitlement thinking.


Sad that this thread wast closed the instant we figured out that the OP wasn't actually joking, and that kill streaks actually entered his mind as a good idea.

Sad, sad state we are in.

+1

Flight Sims are sacred? I am all for different game modes if I still have the option to go full switch. People shouldn't be so afraid of changes.

On the one hand like the majority here I believe killstreaks with some kind of in game boost is absolutely silly. On the other hand we have to all realize that for this niche genre to survive and have more than 2 or 3 sims a decade we (the community of gamers and the devs) have to find ways to compormise to a larger market. It is imperative that we find ways for it to appeal to the more adrenaline junky of players that eat up day one sales.

I don't think killstreaks with silly in game bonuses is the answer, but a couple of weeks ago there was a thread about new game modes that could add some flavor and draw in some new blood. Things like capture the flag, point capture, etc.. There were some really good ideas. I do not believe we should ever see something that gives a player some super plane powers, but we do have to think outside the box and start as a whole considering ways to draw in new players.

Compromises must and should be made and accepted on all fronts. A branch that does not sway in the wind will break.

I think there are ways to welcome newcomers into this genre without copying the latest fads currently in FPS games.

Alternative multiplayer modes could be a good way to do it, but should be done in a way that is unique and still fun.

I really feel there is too much follow the leader going on. I can't really offer a great idea atm as to a solution but I do feel that kill streaks will only develop bad habits in newbies. Flight combat is a lot more cooperative than your average CoD match.

Exactly. We fly for achievements that we form in our minds, because we've been at this for a long time, read a lot of books and our purpose is usually to make it look close enough to what's in the history books.

Newer players would benefit from some sort of incentive to think in a similar fashion and pick up the mindset, they can't suddenly accumulate 10-20 decades of aviation history knowledge like many have here. As long as the achievements are stuff that promote flying in a historically accurate manner, they could promote not only realistic flying on a rookie's part but possibly making the jump to higher difficulty settings as well, ie "combat badge III: shoot down 3 fighters and land safely while flying online in a full switch server".

I don't care if his motives are "gamey" and he wants the flashy badge to display on his profile. As long as he doesn't get any ridiculous unrealistic bonus to his airframe for completing it and he has a reason to do it, he will have the chance to realize himself what the real fun is behind it all.

Killstreak...the word alone. Gave me an idea though. If you can see everyone's online stats you could see if anyone was on an online killstreak. RoF sort off allready has this. You can see what peoples kill deat ratio's are. Be an extra incentive to try to make it home alive. We can then start to hunt these killstreakers for our own glory. Would make for some interesting hunting tactics. No more stupid head on moves or suicidal strategies. Bag your kill an get home alive. Or succeed your mission and get back to base. People flying around as if they are invincible is the biggest immersion killer imho.

+1

Don't like unrealistic servers? Just use fullreal servers. Simple. The "azzhats" you obviously despise are going to pay for IL2#3, not just the members of this forum (not even close). And some are going to get into the game enough to get the gear and enjoy it in its ultimate form.

For those who evidently cannot be bothered watching the video see below a rough transcript of Luthier commenting on new players in IL-2 and CoD at about 10.30 (relying on the translation btw). This is all I am talking about - the devs obviously see the need to get more people into the game and I applaud them. There just isn't going to be an IL-2#3 without this.

Int.: 'So let’s say I can’t fly at all. Can I get started easily?'

Luthier: 'Yes. We really care about this. We are always concerned with our older titles that newer players cannot get started easily and needed to invest a lot of time to get good and people flying without joysticks, flying with keyboard keys… We did have one or two IL-2 veterans who would fly online and consistently win with just keyboards.

'But we really tried to make the learning curve less steep in CoD, make it much more accessible. Can fly with your keyboard, with no joystick with relaxed realism, easy physics, everything complex turned off and just fly around and slowly enable complex options at your own pace and get more and more out of the game.'

I have to say I really don't get the vehemence for the option of having a play style that appeals to a newer audience. Sure I fly full switch and like it, but if it can also have settings and features that appeal to new players I really don't see the conflict. The discussion isn't "Give up full realism and implement arcade mode in its stead." The discussion is possibly add arcadey play modes that could appeal to a new audience.

Having extra options and extra features won't diminish your or my desire to play fulls switch with other full switch players, but rather open the genre up to new comers. It's not a conflict of interest. Granted I think a Kill Streak reward system is silly, but if in the end it brings new players into the fold who may one day be full switch players who really cares? It's not a one or the other option that is being suggested here, and it is just one example of a feature that could be added.

Off topic (probably a good thing) but have you seen the manual? Pretty exciting!:grin: I really like the anthropomorphic control idea. Hopefully it will reduce a few exploits - excellent realism addition.

Those options are for the flight model to be less realistic so they don't get frustrated and leave. Very similar to a "training" scenario. No where did he mention that in the game options that a KILL STREAK or UNLOCK ability would be enabled. You should read and try to understand a thread before you post on it.

Im all for servers having less realistic flight model or collision. Because at the end of the round the flyer with the most skill will be the leader. Not because he killed three guys and WAMBO WOOMBA MAGIC TASTICALLY A SUPER MUMBO JUMBO SUPER PLANE kills 12 more of his enemies. Ala: Call of Duty.

I am for keeping a combat flight SIM, about the SIMULATION of COMBAT FLIGHT.


Whether you played it on super easy or super hard, the method of downing another pilot would be to put his plane on the other end of your bullets. End of story.

Of course I understand that and I have said that I don't particularly like the kill streak idea. I was asking for comment in the OP and boy did I get it. The hostility on this forum to any 'impure' ideas is astounding!

Anything that brings more players in is good in my book. After all, I don't have to play on anything other that fullreal myself and neither do you.

An idea of an award with historical aspect
 

Here's one idea of an 'achievement' model that would have a historical context, adjust your mindset to a more realistic approach and give out some prestige from success:

When you fly on full-real server, score a confirmed kill and make it back to base you'd get a kill marking to your fuselage. The markings would pile up until you get killed and restart from zero after that.

Same for bombers in terms of bomb markings that reflect to the payload dropped close enough to the target zone.

And since it's such harsh mechanism with a sudden death that resets the counter there could be something to indicate your 'records' of the past.

Maybe it could be utilized somehow in off-line too as long as the kill markings are kept in a level that you can't ramp-up your 'stats' in beginner level with invulnerability turned on.

I'm all for the sim-approach for the title and love CEM and everything, but I wouldn't mind have a scoring system like that which doesn't play too big of a role and jump into your face on every screen.

The Hostility comes from a thousand games being RUINED by these crap game mechanics that all serve to basically give a player that gets 3 kills an E BJ, then reward him for kills he didnt even earn.

Some games aren't games at all they are SIMS, and this is one of them. More players is not always good. The more crack head instant gratification losers you bring over the more you have garunteed the slow death of what used to be a great SIM. You want Kill streaks and other crap, go play an arcade game.