Turns and "the ball"
 

This probably applies as much to all planes as it does the US planes but the ball seems to be a more common feature in US planes so I'll use those as an example...

Simple question -

In a turn should I be "stepping on the ball" the same as I should be when flying level?

I've seen vids on youtube that state you're not supposed to use rudder in a turn (or avoid it if possible)?

TIA

Keep The Ball centered to keep your plane pointing where it's going.

Ball not centered means you are flying in a slip or skid condition. Stalling in a slip or skid is how to get into a spin, especially when at more than 1G which is most turns (you could turn while descending and not be > 1 G) and with enough > 1 G is an accelerated stall (under loaded conditions) that with slip makes for a hard, fast spin.

Actually in a turn you might want The Ball slightly IIRC inside but centered works and it's far easier to remember.

When you're flying straight and trying to shoot, flying in slip will put your shots off to one side of the pipper. If you can use that then fine.

Anybody that says not to rudder in turns is either a fool or trying to get easy targets. It's much like people who tell you to fly slow and use flaps a lot.

Lastly, flying with 2 or 3 degrees of slip to fool someone targeting you is a valid historic tactic to get the attacker or potential attacker to perceive you as turning just by the attitude of your plane and miss the first shot which hopefully you see. Look for BoB videos of a pilot named Bob Doe talking about that. There's others but I remember his name.

If you have any doubts, go and test with mind conscious of what you're checking. Don't just think about it or talk and be fooled. TEST. CHECK.

PS
Spitfires have Turn and Slip needle gauges way down on the lower right front panel. They're hard to check in the game and still see where you're going. I don't remember any but British planes without The Ball.

Learning to rudder right is a matter of practice on a per-plane basis. Practice just flying with your view down enough to see The Ball and in time you won't have to check it much the same as you don't have to watch your speedometer every second when you drive.

Thanks, that's what I thought.

Depends on the aircraft, and how you're turning.
Keeping the ball centred is generally encouraged, but when you're going slow and with high AoA, with a high revving engine, you have to counter many forces with the rudder... and the ball does funny things.
Sometimes you must use outside references to fly it through.

Highly recommend this test check approach. Forums are always filled with foolish, ignorant and half-ass experts who insist on giving out advices. I remember when I first started playing IL-2, someone "expert" told me to set my x52pro 100% sensitivity across the board. I took his "holy grail" and had a lot of difficulty aiming and getting kills. Then he told me it was because some planes' fm is porked and unrealistic. I believed in him and followed his suit to bitch about fms. Later I read beginner nugget by Pandabear. Then I realized my problem. After tuning down sensitivity, I was suddenly able to reap in a large number of kills. My aim became much more accurate and my planes seldomly stalled. Now if I feel anything that I don't know, I would first do a bit research then test and try myself to fully understand the issue.

A lot of advice should be seen in context, usually is not ;)
The best is to try out what you think is suitable for you, and adjust if necessary.

100% settings for me work so well, i'd never change for anything.:cool:

Whatever stick settings you use, don't grip the stick tight and never rest the weight of your hand/arm on the stick.

Practice out of combat holding the stick with thumb and one or two fingers. Get to know what flying with a light touch can do.

Knowing ain't half the battle if you don't PRACTICE. Practice flying first. Practice shooting second. Practice fighting until you change planes, then start over as flying all planes the same is how to be mediocre.

When I flew little planes I was always annoyed that, on takeoff turning to cross-wind, I found myself using opposite rudder. Then again, that wasn't the only thing that confused me. I "gave up" the hobby in a farmer's field.

Had you been through ground school and all that?

IF you want to make a sustained turn, keeping the aircraft at the same altitude all the time during the turn. Then you must do as MaxGunz tells in underlined part.

The reason for level-turning, (turning at the same altitude during the turn) and keeping ball "not centered" is due to physics of flight.

WHEN you pull the stick back, at the same time as your aircraft is "rolled" slightly to the right for example.

This causes extra lift, which causes your nose to rise up slightly when you turn right, with only using aileron and elevator... Extra lift is caused by elevator action.

The rudder action must be used to counteract the elevator action, and therefore counter the nose-rising effect of turning (when you are making a turn to the right for example)

Rudder action neutralizes the extra lift caused by elevator (elevator is caused by pulling back the stick of course!)

This was explained in a wikipedia article about physics of flight surfaces as I recall...

Specific case where this could be important to remember... There aren't verry many scenarios like this. But sometimes It's good to know that for accurate shooting at the same time when turning, you gotta remember rudder at the same time when turning.

Imagine that you're spitfire... Youre turning 90deg to the left, flying at low altitude. You're going to attack a bomber from 90 deg deflection shot. When you are at the same altitude as the target. you have to aim accurately along target's fuselage. You cannot shoot "above bomber's head" you must aim at the correctly at the fuselage because it's the only visible part of the target so to speak... (side fuselage of bomber present smaller target than from above or below...)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adverse_yaw

Assume we are turning aircraft to the right.
Rolling an aircraft right, causes phenomenon known as adverse yaw of aircraft.

Cause is the disturbance in lift forces on both wings, also the rolling of wings.

Adverse yaw means that the nose of the aircraft keeps wanting to yaw towards the opposite direction of the roll.

This is bad because we want to turn to the same direction as the roll. (obviously)

Adverse yaw is bad news for turn rate, turn radius, and speed, it sounds like that to me.

We use rudder to counteract the effects of adverse yaw. And by using rudder right, when turning right, we are counteracting the adverse yaw because the rudder turns the nose to the same direction to the inside of the "curve", instead of nose being outside the curve.

Also, if you want to turn better, don´t do it at full RPM's. Plane will become much more stable, and less prone to get into a spin.
The YAW effect Laurwin describes, is better noticed when trying to turn in ROF with a Focker Dr I. If you master turning with that plane, you will do it automatically on il-2.

Also the effect described affects you if you are not with your wings perpendicular to ground. If you put your plane in that angle, you won´t suffer the climbing forces differential, but you will be loosing altitude very fast.

Also, if you try to correct the yaw effect with a high RPM, on the direction where the rudder instead of countering torque will add to its effect, you are far pone to enter into a spin, or be forced to loose more speed on the turn.
Every plane have a better turn direction, unless they are like the P38 with counter rotating engines.

usually best idea in IL-2 combat is to turn both in vertical and horizontal at same time. This kind of turning makes the most difficult target for enemy (oftentimes) and it gives good turn rate.

Either downwards diving turning, or climbing turn (or simply quick immelman, climb quickly to utilize vertical turning room)

Adverse yaw is because wing you raise has greater drag from higher AOA along the aileron portion of the wing.

First drop the nose a bit to reduce loading, drop prop speed to reduce gyro, then rudder and roll but even before halfway into the turn, once the turn is established bring the power up smoothly as you level off and bring the nose up so half the turn is dropping and the next half is rising unless you want to stay lower.

Non-horizontal turns are done at less wing load than horizontal turns because gravity orients down and the less perpendicular you cross gravity the less wing load you got.

It is good to learn how to get the most out of your aircraft in every situation it and you are in, but if you sit there staring at your balls in combat you are dead.

If you have a natural knack for flight sims then you should just be able to fly around and discover what is right on your own. If you have to think about what you have heard and read during combat you will never be an ace, your aircraft has to work for you as your limbs do, and your eyes have to be nowhere but on your opponent.

For a large extent this is true. In game for practical purposes, the ball slip indicator matters the most when you are shooting guns and aiming. But it was more of a flight physics idea to keep the ball centered. So it's like a theoretical idea.

If you fight 1v1 with both planes being exact copy, like 109 vs 109, then you get advantage from "flying pure" because flying pure with ball centered minimizes drag, and maximizes energy, for energy fighting purposes.

In theory at least... In practical terms you always have to spend energy to kill people in air combat so you cannot simply accumulate energy like money savings in the bank, you must spend that energy wisely and not let it sit hidden in bank vault!:grin:

Especially long range shots it's best idea to have ball centered. because side slip affect aiming point.

More side slip (yaw) creates more change in aiming point. Of course it would be a good idea to learn also particular aiming with the rudder use also!
Sometimes you have to use the rudder like that durring snap shot. Sometimes with focke wulf for example, you only need one good snap shot.

If you spend time practicing nothing but flying you will be able to only need to check once in a while. The rest of the time you will be able to tell from cues and the habits of your training will see you through.

How often do you check the speedometer when you drive? When I ran old VW's, the engine noise and gear told me most of the time. Those are cues.

Practice just flying to get good, get better and stay better. When you are concentrating on many other things, good flying needs to be done without much thinking --- it can be poor flying more easily by not practicing.

So practice flying where the enemy to watch for is everything that slows you down and find ways to lose less or not lose at all. Find out if you've fallen into making nose high mushy turns or skidding around. Find out what you're too busy to see in combat that leaves you thinking the others cheat.