Poll regarding Steam users
 

I just wanted to see what the community at large thinks of Steam, as it seems like there are quite a number of people that either don't have it or choose not to have it for various reasons...

Im trying not to start anything in the way of a argument over whether Steam is good or bad, just want to see its usage.

i have purchased only 3 games that needed STEAM in my PC life :D
i had with all three proplems, 2 of them i could not install.

I would prefer not to be forced to use STEAM at least during the install, i have already preordered a DVD version :D
in general, i have nothing against STEAM, and i have no expereince with its "server browser" system.
and, for people who have no proplems with the programm, IF CoD will be avaialble via STEAM, it can be much more easy for them to purchase the game too !

I use STEAM for all my games, including games that weren't published via STEAM , I link them into STEAM so I can access all my games from one app. It's great.

I buy most of my pc games through Steam, and have never had an issue. In terms of digital distribution, I think its the best out there.

I honestly don't see what the big deal is, so many ppl bickering about steam. If you don't like it.. don't use it.

Sure, but what if we have to use it if we want to play Cliffs of Dover...

last game addon i bought on steam last week downloaded at 500-550k per second
its not bad
holds the games you purchase in its games library so you can just re download them if required
only time they really annoyed me was when i bought a game on ebay and when i tried to install said this code is not for your region bla bla so basically i wasted my money
didnt buy any games from steam for about 3 years after that
even now i let alot of games slide that i would of previously bought
i dont think it pays for companys to piss off the people that spend money with them

:)
Darbo

Then you'll need to install and use Steam, otherwise no CoD.

I've not had any issues with Steam. I view the features it has as a bonus not a reason to not buy a game.

I've used it a couple of times in the past.

I had Red Orchestra, and a couple games I cannot even remember anymore.

I just don't like the idea of not having the disc in my hands. And I had issues with their login system all the time, and well, it does not matter really, as I won't use Steam ever again.

That's a pity El Aurens, as I had thought you were looking forward to CoD. Il-2 will still be a fine game for many years to come, though.

You know you can make installable DVD backups of any steam game and you don't need to be connected to the net to play, only to activate the game.

just to make it clear again, this topic is because of this, not totaly clear :( , blog entry:
"We received many questions about the Digital Rights Management solution used in IL2 : COD. we understand it is an important subject for many of you, and we are a glad to tell you that IL2 Sturmovik: Cliff of Dover will use the SolidShield DRM solution. SolidShield features a flexible activation process and allows for up to 3 simultaneous game installs.

Please note that the game will also use the Steam platform for services such as matchmaking, anti-cheat etc… So you will need a Steam account to play the game."


http://il-2-sturmovik.ubi.com/cliffs...log/uk/?p=1162

If Steam would sell CoD that's great, with all the benefits for users and developer. It would please all who like Steam's environment. However, why do we need Steam in order to play while we have a splendid protection system from the sounds of it? Isn't that enough?

Options are always nice, I hope it just means: You need a steam account if you buy it through Steam ( logical) , as I do not see the direct need for it. Why hassle the community up with yet another requirement?

Are you saying I have to use Steam to play the game?

:confused:

@JG53Frankyboy

I think you need to be specific about why you're against Steam. Copying a section of text is fine but you need to specify what your main concern is about that section of text.

@Anyone
With Steam you need to set up an account in order to play games, otherwise you can only access the Steam web store. If you buy a game that requires Steam, as stated for CoD, then you need to set up an account.

If you're dead against Steam then I feel sorry for you because you wont be able to play CoD.

That would seem to be what they're saying. There could be confusion, but the FAQ does say it is required.

the question is:
if you need STEAM only to play ONLINE or to use it in total..

as i said, the blog is not clear in that, at least not for me as a no native english speaker. more clarification from official side would be very nice. and this blog from 7.march is the first mention of STEAM in the CoD development ever!

No offence to anyone but I would have thought that last line in the text spells it out pretty clear: "So you will need a Steam account to play the game."

If this is true I am canceling all three of my current orders and walking away from the sim.

I had nothing but trouble with Steam when I was playing RO. And it was even harder to ferret all of it out to get it off my machine when I quit playing RO.

This really has ruined my day.

than thank you for clarification :)

EDIT:ups, thx to Codex

El Aurens, there are 2.1 million people playing games on Steam at this very moment, and 30 million accounts in existence.

Are you really saying that you will refuse something that you are plainly looking forward to because you don't think it will work, disregarding the fact that it plainly does for so many?

And my work here is done ;)

I think I'll put together a community FAQ to clear up all of this mess, trouble is I can't access certain websites from work including Steam. This forum is the only freedom I've got :P

What I am saying is that I don't like Steam, and don't like being forced to use it.

I don't care really how many do use it, that is their prerogative.

It's another process (several really) running in the background, phoning home all the time. It's an unnecessary complication.

Damn, I was so looking forward to the new sim.

:(

I admire the courage of your convictions. When so many others are having a damn fine time, but you stand apart, refusing to get involved must require a real strength of character.

Btw, I'm running Steam atm, as you'd probably guess. It's using 88mb of memory. By way of comparison Chrome, my browser, is using 217mb.

I have 4 gigs of ram. This footprint is not really killing me. As regards it phoning home - I don't think you have anything to worry about; unless, of course, you do have something to worry about.

Edit: I'd like to recognise the truth of El Auren noting it is a complication. But it is a very, very minor complication, and one that comes with many additional benefits. It's really worth weighing these up judiciously and without prejudice; but all I hear from the NOSTEAM crowd is prejudice and fear.

But hey! It's up to you. Some people just hate moving with the times. As said, IL-2 is a fine piece of software and whilst I regret leaving you back in the last decade, you gotta stay where you're happy. I wish you could come with us.

This is kind of a biased survey.

The sort of person that is online and posting on forums is most likely already using Steam. (Most of the real life people I know that play or have played IL2_1946 bought it in a store and have never played it online ever, those people obviously never come to this forum)

That is going to bias the results a bit.

yes; the sort of person who embraces new technology is likely to be already using fairly old technology. They probably are biased as to its worth, as they established that a long time ago, hence their current use of said tech.

This whole business reminds me of a discussion I had in 1995 regarding the internet. I was rather keen on it, and was telling my friend about all these great guitar tutorials on tunings I had found, without needing to buy expensive books.

I went on about it a bit too much probably, because eventually he exploded and and said that 'there was nothing on the internet you couldn't get in a good library!' and a great deal more I can't clearly recall. I was shocked at the vehemence of his response, though we were drinking and had certainly reached a level of refreshment almost commensurate with the horizontal. I never mentioned those interwebs again to him, and eventually we lost contact.

I'd be very surprised if he still held that view quite so dearly today.

I've been looking forward to this sim for years and been on this forum for a good while too but sad to say I won't buy this som now. I'll buy ROF instead even though it doesn't have much for oflline players. At least they eventually stopped the constant online requirement. Something Oleg and crew apparently did not learn a lesson from. I really don't play online so I don't want to even have a connection up when I play a game.

What are you talking about? I have always played Il2 offine, at least 99% of the time. And I have haunted all of the forums. Do you think that just because someone prefers to play a game in offline mode means they never get on a computer and get on the internet?? If that were true how would I have ever found out about new game updates or patches and such? Or get help with a game problem. Heck, if I played IL2 but never got online on a PC I'd probably still be playing the original title from 2001 with no patches at all, just the original game. Oh wait! I guess people like us get game patches from friends by having them snail mail them to us on a CDR!! NOT!!

i really enjoy steam. it's simple and easy to use.

i don't see what the problem is.

it's the future chaps - deal with it.

You have to be online only for the activation. Games in Steam can be runned also in Offline Mode.

A lot of people have the wrong idea of Steam,thinking that games with it need a constant internet connection to work and that is not the case.Even more you can run games bought through Steam without actually using Steam.

I have similar experience from working at a web cafe for about three years. It wasn't garbage but it wasn't great either. In any case, my experience with it didn't convince me to choose Steam for any of my gaming purchases.

I have no problem with it as long as it works offline, i can bypass auto-updates in favor of manual patching, can roll back to a previous version and have multiple installs. The final verdict is a tie, since i know you can do the first two easily, but the third requires a complete copy of the game folder and the fourth is said to be impossible.

The main advantages in using Steam are word of mouth advertisement by people who have other Steam games (i don't even have all of my real-life friends in my starcraft2 contact list and don't own any Steam games, so i wouldn't qualify as exactly helpful in this regard, but others might) in favor of the development team, plus the ability to download and install the game in case of a damaged disc as far as direct benefits to the customer are concerned. Everything else is stuff that's welcome but i really don't care much about or have any real need/use for.

I think i'm going to get the sim anyway, but i definitely don't want to install through Steam and i really hope Steam is only there as a server browser and not much else for those of us who purchase a hard copy version.
Then i'm going to mouth off on Ubi's support forums with the entitlement of a paying customer every time a problem arises in the hopes of making it optional for the next expansion in the series. :-P


Exactly.


No luck mate, they only dropped it for scripted campaigns. Their dynamic campaign still needs to download each mission from the master server. As for what their new dynamic campaign will work like, i have no idea.

To be fair though, Steam is actually much less severe than RoF's system, you can play offline with Steam just fine.
It's just the fact that copy protection is already handled by Solidshield and that we'll be getting perfectly good boxed editions that gets me puzzled about why having to integrate it in the first place.

I'm against 1C Maddox increasing their profits through digital distribution, and for protecting their intellectual properties. I really hate any changes, and I don't understand this Steam at all. I am now going to give some anecdotal evidence that is extremely vague to back up my argument.

It honestly sounds like many of you never really gave Steam a shot. There are a number of threads on the first page of this forum. Read through them ask questions. Many of us it seems do use Steam, and have shown through out those threads that we are also knowledgeable about the service. There have been links showing that 1C Publishing really likes the service.

In the beginning when Steam was first introduced I really didn't like that concept of it, but it was easy enough to create an account and log it in. Literally logging in is either automatic at start up, you can choose to have to type your password in every time, or you can just set it to start in offline mode at start, or for it to not auto start at all. Please before you go boycotting this game that you've been looking forward to dare to ask those of us that are knowledgeable about the service questions.

If you've had trouble with it in the past be specific about what that trouble was. No one can help you out when you are extremely vague about the source of your woes.

HERESY! APOSTASY! FLAPJACKS! You think you can come in here with your fancy reason and hoity-toity considered approach? Do you not know that this is a flight sim community, the proud residence of the most backward minds in PC Gaming? We don't care for you high-falutin' thoughtfulness round here. Where's my goddamn gun

You had me going for a minute then.

I'm totally against this bullshit! I'd rather throw my family into a well and set it on fire before using Steam. Next they're going to want us to start using DSL and other broadband connections.

You'll have to pry my 56k modem from my cold dead hands!

My opposition to it is solely based on the less than stellar experience I had with it in the past.

I'm not saying it's the tool of the devil, or any other conspiracy theory that can be ascribed to it.

If I own a hard copy of the sim, purchased through a traditional retailer, that already has copy protection/DRM/anti-zombieware on it already, why should I or anyone else be forced into having yet another layer of complexity added to what is already a very CPU intensive piece of software?

I'm not saying that Maddox Games/1C/UBI should not market on Steam for those that like that approach.

I just don't understand forcing it on everyone, even if they do not buy their copy from Steam.

What is wrong with that?

Ain't nothing wrong with that, and you're also entirely polite.

What would be a shame though, is not trying it for fear of not liking it. Maybe wait and see how the early adopters feel, but - what's that saying - cutting off your nose to spite your face seems a pity.

This sounds a lot like the arguments I have with my kids about trying new foods.

Kid:"It looks yucky I want chicken nuggets"
Me:"Have you tried it?"
Kid:"NO, cuz I won't like it"
Me:"How can you know you won't like it if you don't try it. Now take a bight."
Kid:*nibbles at food, five minutes later the plate is cleared.
Me:"How was it?"
Kid:"Very yummy!"

hehe. In fairness to El Aurens, and a few others, they have had bad experiences with Steam. I'm just willing to bet that Steam has improved, and/or their system may have played a part, or lastly but most definitely, our community can help iron out any issues that crop up for anyone.

I'm using Steam a few years now, Halflife, TF2, L4D2, Il2-1946 and it works perfect. Downloading goes with 2 - 3 mb/s.

Anyone out there who doesn't know and is wondering what this Steam stuff is all about can install it and have a look for themselves -

http://store.steampowered.com/about/

I'm hoping they've just made the Steam requirement compulsory for using the game's built-in server-browsing features, and that we can still use third-party utilities like Hyperlobby, by-passing the in-game browser and Steam altogether if we want to, but I kind of doubt it. I thought the fact that they're effectively using two forms of DRM/activation, SolidShield's and Steam's, might make that so, but looking into it I see there are several other games out there that require both SolidShield and Steam activation. So...

While there is the slim possibility that Ubisoft's decision to require activation via SolidShield DRM means it may not be necessary to use Steam at all, the chances are, they've just added that in on top of Steam's built-in activation requirements.

Not enough information at this point to be absolutely sure about it. But, "Please note that the game will also use the Steam platform for services such as matchmaking, anti-cheat etc… So you will need a Steam account to play the game.", probably does mean, short of cracked versions, you will in fact need to download and install and make a Steam account in order to play online, and to activate your copy of the game even if you then just play off-line.

xxxx happens.

I'm afraid you got that backwards - ROF still needs a constant connection to play the campaign, which will also apply to the coming overhauled campaign, while Steam has a pure offline mode. I've blocked Steam in the Firewall by default and it works just fine that way.

I can't really say I like Steam, as I don't consider the features it provides as substantial (auto-patching and re-downloading are nice but nothing I really need either). But I have to admit it works for me, looks like a solid piece of software that isn't very intrusive and mostly gets out of my way. As far as DRM goes it's about as much as I'm willing to accept - I'm still more worried about that SolidShield stuff because it's new and may have some drawbacks nobody's yet aware of.

My thoughts as well. The fact this was dropped on people 2 weeks before release of CoD is pretty amazing,and you can't even get a straight answer at UBI right now,with even their representative on the forum telling us different info to what is stated on their website!
I have not pre ordered CoD,and will not buy it yet,as there are still a lot of unanswered questions.Its been said many times by people,with UBI involved anything can happen.
I await the next bombshell with baited breath, 'cos I don't think this one will be the last...

Ubi is really doing its EVERYTHING to make the game sell as little as possible!

I was ready to buy the game and be happy with it even with constant needed online connection. But Steam? I might as well throw the money away.

Don't do that! I'll give you my paypal details.

For people who are thinking its funny that some are now saying they will not buy CoD,really,its not.Lost sales are a tragedy for the future of CoD,because these are the very people who have been around for years,and could be relied upon to buy every expansion Oleg brings out.
The average gamer kiddie just wants the 'next big thing' all the time,and might buy CoD on steam,but within a few weeks will move on to something else without a backwards glance.
Thats not funny.

I seem to recall a few months back it being mentioned that 1C Publishing was wanting to implement Steam, and then in the Igromir videos Steam implementation was quite obvious. They didn't just drop this on us. It's at very least been hinted at for awhile now.

I don't honestly think this is a Ubisoft decision I think this was 1C Publishings decision. That would also make sense why just a few days ago Ilya could say with such confidence that it would be available globally on 3/25. I am starting to think that Ubisoft is ONLY handling boxed copies, and if that is the case I will give as much of my money to 1C Maddox as possible by buying the Steam version of the game.

Very few of them will actually not get it. Steam is fine, and eventually they will come to realise that. I've been through this before with recalcitrant gamers refusing to use it... until they did.

And Steam will ensure the game is seen by millions, without expensive advertising. Losing 6 sales on the banana forums but gaining several hundred thousand on Steam is a no-brainer.

I'm sorry to see anyone decide to miss out because they are afraid of what will be the standard way to buy games within the next 5 years, and the only way within 10, but if you don't like the future, you don't have to go there. Some people will never accept change. It's a pity.

Barking at Ubisoft (while not unreasonable in 99% of the cases ;) ) is wrong this time. 1C is the big proponent of STEAM and either Oleg or Ilya did drop hints a few weeks back that STEAM would be involved some way or another.

I'm somewhat ambivalent towards STEAM myself. I use it and never had issues, and quite frankly it made things a lot easier for me when I was seriously ill in 2008/2009 and only had a notebook to play with, but I also don't necessarily like having yet another software running in the background. I do not necessarily see advantages for CoD apart from the additional revenue for 1C, since I consider this "going online for playing offline" trend of late a major PITA of every honest customer.

Amen.

I purchased IL-2 on Steam and I launch it through Steam. Just like every other game I buy. I was a little worried that I wasn't going to be able to purchase CloD on Steam. I'm happy about the announcement. I recently purchased DCS A-10. It was the first game in a couple years that I didn't buy from the service. I really wish I could have gotten it on Steam. It would have made downloading and installing it much more convenient. I know most of the anti-steam crowd will just cover their ears and hum, but it really is the future. I'll be amazed if 5-10 years from now you'll still be able to buy physical copies of PC games and that's fine with me. I hope by then you will have joined us. IL-2 will probably be looking pretty old by then.

# of buyers because of Steam > # of boycotters.

But Breakfastmachine we are just kiddies buying the next big shiny thing! It's not like we over at SA have been playing IL-2 for years or anything. :smug:

@JG53Uther Inane gibberish assuming that someone who uses Steam is a kiddie that has no interest in flight sims beyond some toddler's attention span is asinine. Losing a few people that are unwilling to move forward while increasing 1C's profitability and opening it up to a market of 30 million user's day one is a fair trade. If you are going to mope and call foul because you can't face the future than it is your loss. Before you get offended remember you are the one that started the name calling here.

If you're required to have Steam to play offline then I'm not buying. What does it have to do with the game anyway? Why do I want to have a third party program running on my machine at all? The quiet acceptance of giving away your personal information to anyone who pays for it, which you agree to when you sign up to steam just beggars belief. Steam may be benign now but will it always be?

Yes it will, the growth has been beyond exponential and it allows developers to skip the whole physical distribution aspect. PC gaming = lower profit margins and for those looking for games more than a console port, higher output time. Look at movie rentals or music distribution, itunes, netflix.

Other services will come up and try to compete is my prediction, but steam is here to stay. What many are experiencing is a generational gap (i made it up). That moment where you begin to hate the way things have changed and liked it better before. "Today's music sucks, today's ADD console kids are spoiled, cartoons were better in the 80's etc etc.

In my limited experience with life, it's easier and more rewarding to accept technological change than it is to fight it.

It says CLEARLY that they do not give away your personal information. Quit being melodramatic.

VVVVV Urp sorry about that JG52Uther. Yeah there are some young people, but it's not fair to assume that all young people are weak willed. VVVVVV

Not sure if this is aimed at me because thats not my name but: I have steam,use steam (for RO and DH) but stand by my view that steam is full of kiddies whose attention span only lasts until the next game is released...
:)

Like that bunch who play Hearts of Iron? You can't scrub 1250 games across all genres as played only by kiddies.

That has nothing to do with STEAM, Uther. The world is full of of kiddies whose attention span only lasts until the next game is released ... ;)

Very true!

WOW Uther/Everyone calm down Steam is a great tool.

I for one am happy that il2:COD and the total war games use steam. While TW Empire was rubbish broken game it wasn't steams fault this was proven by TW Napoleon which i have yet to experience any problems with, now i am just waiting for TW Shogun 2 brought at retail and then linked to my account, if the disk breaks i can just download it through steam :cool:

Steam is not full of kiddies, games are... steam will bring il2 a new crowd some will leave after a week and others will become regular players as hard as i try to find a downside to steam i just can't its a great tool and downloading is the future of game sales face it.

I was just going to post something like this. Why do I need Steam if I buy the dvd or some (other then Steam delivered) downloadable version? I just hope the dude who posted the Steam requirements doesn't know what he's talking about, it's not like that would be a first with Ubi guys :cool:.

If they try to force me to install Steam then they can kiss my money goodbye. That simple.

I wonder how things are with the russian market. I have no problem buying from Russia, just need a language selector. I'd rather have some of what i'm paying going to 1C then to Ubi.

Steam was 1C Publishings decision for some simple factual reasons: More profitable for them, a simple user interface for MP gaming, more money for them and less for Ubishaft. If you want to screw 1C for making a smart business choice, and ensuring a huge market of 30 million people, and the most dominant thriving PC community on the planet then you can't see the forest for the trees.

Defacto it a move to direct distribution.

Exactly. Options people, options. If the the game shipped with wonder woman view enabled by default you'd all be up in arms because it limits your choices, but apparently when things are getting automated on the set-up side of things even for those that prefer to do things manually, it's the future and we all have to deal with it. :rolleyes:

I don't have anything against Steam in particular, i just don't want to have it forced on me, but all this take it or leave it attitude displayed by some is too reminiscent of the "Great RoF War: fanboys vs haters" of two years ago. Tough luck, because if people dislike it enough they'll keep saying so until they're given a satisfactory alternative. If you want to like the platform then by all means do so, just don't try to force others to like it if they don't. ;)



That's my exact opinion as well. In all fairness, Oleg said that it will be possible to use 3rd party server browsers so there might be a solution in the future. Steam is not that hard to bypass, so in a few months maybe we'll be able to disable Steam with a community mod and connect through Hypperlobby or something similar, plus it won't help pirates if we disable Steam because the game already has a second layer of copy protection (Solidshield DRM). So, even with Steam disabled it will only work for legitimate copies of paying customers, so there's nothing wrong with that and won't cost 1c a dime.

After all, for people like me advertising the game involves having a friend come over for a few beers and letting him fly a couple of sorties, not having 20 people in a friend's list watching what i play. Every single time i've used such a feature (from facebook to online matchmakers), my contact list only includes people i know in real life and for this reason i end up not using it at all after a while.
I don't need to message anyone on the internet if everyone i interact with is a person i can reach by phone or in person. They have absolutely nothing to gain in the advertising department from those of us who will not use Steam's community features but prefer external tools and forums, so i won't have any second thoughts about disabling Steam integration first chance i get.

All this is like paying for a game and then cracking it while you have a legal copy to make it easier to to use (yes, it's irony gold), but it's not going to be the first time i've done it to play a game i paid for on my own pace.

I like STEAM and it's features. It's very comfortable and easy to use.

IMHO it's a great chance for CoD to get more attention by various means:
1. e.g. IL2 is amongst the highest-scoring games in Steam and a real bargain.
2. STEAM supports community-groups, which is:
- an ideal news-portal in a magnitude much larger than Banana+Ubi-Forum
- a great support for Squads and Groups flying (complete with Squad-Banners, MOTD, rankings, organizing 'clanwars', etc.)
- a nice communication platform to attract new customers and share knowledge with them
3. STEAM support Auto-Update. A great help! If you don't think so, make up your mind and count the posts in both forums where new players ask for patches needed and their installation-order.
4. STEAM gives much more money to Oleg than any other distribution method
5. You can install STEAM on any PC you want. Download your games there and play. No more "7 activations for your lifetime are enough".

With regards to the "kiddies on steam" comments, WOW! how bigot can you get?LOL! Not only kids play games, gamers grow up and continue to be gamers. I'm 27 and I've been playing video/computer games since I can remember. Sometimes after a long period of playing ETW (for example) it feels so good to shake things up and shoot somebody in the face with an AK-47 in Far Cry 2 or crushing the competition online in Mario Kart Wii. Thank God for variation in games, I'd probably be bored to death if I could only play IL-2. Little OT I know.:)

Not OT and hitting the nail on the head.

Besides that, I'm also glad that we have young newcomers to flightsims. Even if they fly like little Rambos (do they even know who that is?), they'll grow up, they support the game and they make flying much more colorful.

I'm sorry, do you know that for a fact? I can tell you for a fact who's going to make money if Steam is on: Valve. Now why do i need to pay Valve for? I don't even like Steam (i like Valve though lol). Actually Steam and Valve's "bussiness model" (fancy expression for bs) are the reason downloadable games are not cheaper.

What most dominant community? That's not even a community. Me using Steam to play Il2CoD does not make me pal with the guy playing The Sims or whatever; we're not a community. There's just a bunch of people using a download service. Dominant community? WoW has a dominant community, Starcraft 2 has a dominant community. I don't see Blizzard on Steam... you know why? Because they're smart. Wanna download Starcraft? No problem. Wanna pay Valve to download Starcraft? No you can't :). Why would Blizzard share some of that money with Valve? Why? Bandwidth is cheap this days. The developer should sell it as directly as they could, not go through 2 intermediaries, and then wonder how come they're not making as much money as they should for their hard work.

I got no problems with downloadable games, yes, that is the future. But not by giving half your profits to Valve (or anybody else). You don't need to do that. I bought a few months back ARMA2 Complete, where did i bought it from? Sprocket download baby, because i wanna put money in the developers' pockets, not a bunch of middlemen.

They should have went the Bohemia Interactive way, sell it yourself if possible at all, especially in niche markets. Make no mistake, if a game is good, it will sell, but such types never in huge volume, so more reason for you as a developer not to let other people get money you deserve for your work.

Well honestly I'm glad they have used Steam. At least the game will have a working server browser. I don't see Steam dying any time soon the way the ubi.com servers did for Il-2.

1)All the evidence points to it, and that has been pointed out numerous times over the last 2 days by numerous people with numerous links.

2)Frankly because although bandwidth is relatively cheap these days running FTP servers 24/7 365 and maintaining your servers isn't. STEAM (which is a software program made, updated, and run by Valve not a separate business or partner business) Has an approximate 70% market share of DD, and 30 million users. You don't get that kind of business over night, and 1C sees that. Valve had to keep prices up to the same levels as brick and mortar stores because B&M's threatened publisher with "we won't stock your games if you let Valve sale lower than box retail prices."

3) 3.
a social, religious, occupational, or other group sharing common characteristics or interests and perceived or perceiving itself as distinct in some respect from the larger society within which it exists (usually preceded by the ): the business community; the community of scholars.

I wasn't referring to a social community such as this one. As to why Blizzard can do that and say 1C can't really at this juncture is frankly Brand recognition and loyalty. It has nothing to do with Blizzard being smart or dumb they just simply have the weight to do it on their own.

Awesome - Now I just have to move all my peripherals from one to the other PC, lol.

Steam OK, but what of HL?
 

if it's the only way I can get to fly CoD online, then I'll go with steam. Does this preclude CoD in Hyperlobby? I don't understand.
Flyby out

Maybe. Steam's server browser is better than Hyperlobby, though.

do you know if they are private servers or company run (rentals) servers?

You do not have to rent servers from Valve if that is what you are asking. You can use any server service you desire including running a personal server.

Edit: For clarification. VVVV Yes VVV

what i meant was can anyone put up a server like we do on HL?

Yes.

The IP's question was about pro and cons for Steam.
Considering DRMs of other current games, this IS an advantage.

I like steam - but I want to add this: FOR THE LOVE OF GOD, ANYTHING BUT YUPLAY OR GAMESPY!!! :-P

I've almost completely switched from buying my PC games on DVD to buying through Steam (if it can be done so). I think it's a great service.

And, yes, I have had problems on Steam. Buying a big AAA title on release day almost guarantees you're not going to have a fun time because of the millions of people trying to download the title at the same time. I've also had an issue with Steam's configuration files that required me to reinstall the Steam client.

But even with those things under my belt, I still love the service. Let's face it, with current computers, background applications are FAR less of a problem when running games than they used to be. I used to go nuts trying to make sure nothing on my computer was running besides the game and the most BARE parts of Windows. Now, I really don't bother. I just make sure I'm not downloading anything when I game online is all. I don't have a very expensive computer at the moment (probably middle of the line).

In the end, it's all a choice. That also means its a choice for 1C as well. If they feel that Steam is the best way of delivering their title to us (which it sounds like they do) then that's the way they'll deliver it. Their choice. And its my choice to decide that I want the game and that I'm prepared to buy it through Steam (I am).

This is no different from a game company selling the game on a DVD with Starforce protection or whatever anti-piracy stuff of the hour that people hate.

If anything, this whole argument isn't even about the Steam service at all. It's simply a DRM debate. 1C's made their decision about which DRM to use.

EDIT: That all said, I'm hoping very much that the game takes full use of Steam and doesn't require something like the horrible yuplay mentioned in the above post. I still shudder at that thing.

At same time as I'm writing this I'm downloading Mafia 2 from Steam, got it for 10€ on this weeks "midweek madness". +1 for Steam, again.:) Will help me pass some time until CoD is released.

This essentially depends on whether Maddox Games release dedicated server software, and all indications point toward yes. :) Not necessarily straight away, though...anyone know if the dedicated server software will be available at release?

last infos say yes, deticated server software is available with release - if on the DVD or as an extra download, not sure.

Awesome. :)

I purchased many pc games from STEAM; including IL2. I have a generally favorable view of STEAM.

Who told you this ?

Does this poll mean that we can put this whole steam issue to bed?

LOL

89% are either happy with CoD using Steam or are prepared to use it, so I would say so.

Plus I'm sure a number of the remaining 11% are only saying that because they are trying to pressure 1C into removing Steam, and will get the game anyway.

I find it hilarious that the demographic surrounding this game are so anti-Steam.

I have a huge collection of games bought through Steam.

It is particularly funny to see the IL2 community up-in-arms over Steam's inclusion because recently there was a huge noise when Need For Speed: Hot Pursuit (2010) was released and there was an announcement saying that the game wouldn't be coming to Steam. You should have seen the uproar!
Anyway that game is now also available on Steam.

Anyway I concede everyone has the right to choose not to use certain software but with Steam, based on roughly 7 years of experience with it, I can't think of a reasonable reason not to.

So far, none of the reasons given as opposition for using it have had any merit whatsoever.

that pretty much seems to be the 'bottom line' now isn't it?

Its the usual situation where people who have a complaint talk a lot more than those who don't.

The vast majority of users seem quite happy with Steam, or at least OK with it, based on the poll.

Leans forward out of the shadows, casts a cynical, world-weary and somewhat crazed look at the questioner, thinking, assessing, then looks left and right to see who else is around and relaxes a little, what the hell...

"This is the last part of the puzzle and still isn't known. To do so will require by-passing the game's built-in server-browsing features, which will be set up to go through Steam.

In the past, with IL-2/Ubi's built-in multiplayer system, that wasn't a problem, or you could say, a blind eye was turned towards it and neither the developers or publishers seemed to mind. But to be honest I wouldn't expect that to be the case this time.

And from here we start to get into potentially murky territory, whereby there may in fact be a new Hyperlobby-type arrangement and online scene, that we'll never be able to talk about here.

Sorry for the melodrama, but having been left in the dark to speculate like this, and looking at all potential possibilities, I can't help but wonder whether certain profit-motivated decisions have really been fully thought through. A dedicated community can be cajoled into bringing you some really nice bones, but it can also turn around and ravage your half-arsed dreams and schemes if you're not careful.

Will have to wait and see.

I'd rather ask, will there be a need for a service like Hyperlobby anymore? And I'd like to automatically and without hesitation say, no, there'll be no need or want for a Hyperlobby type service anymore, it won't be necessary, and it won't be necessary for the developers to code that option in or leave that loop-hole open. But..."

Looks around again, gives a slight shrug of the shoulders and a parting, who-knows kind of look, before retreating back into the shadows, "...will have to wait and see."

Questioner just stands there, looking into the darkness, blinking, wtf was that all about? I just wanna fly online.

See here - may no longer apply, but at least back in October Oleg clearly did not plan to limit multiplayer to the Steam lobby.

Thanks for that, I remember reading that now that I see it again. Interesting in retrospect to see that he was referring to Steam.

If they have managed to leave that "...possibility to integrate to another systems by creative users and third party..." then the Steam naysayers have even less to worry about. Yeah, the crap will still be on your system somewhere, but you won't have to have anything much at all to do with it in order to play on-line or off.

In which case, here - http://store.steampowered.com/about/ here's the link again. Install the Steam client now before you even get the game and report back to us on how resource-hungry and intrusive it is. I dare ya:grin:

Edit- Sorry for the tone of my recent posts, if anyone knows what I mean, I think I've been spending too much time reading up on these forums lately. Should take a break.

I have ran several servers for several different games that make use of Steam.

The Steam server browser can see the server and report on it's current connected clients and will allow for you to connect to the server using the Steam system but none of this has ever precluded the ability to see the server and connect to it using a 3rd party application; Xfire for example.

I can find no previous examples where Steam integration has meant that there isn't another way to connect and have no reason to believe ClOD will be any different.

If there are any potential ClOD customers out there that are scared of using Steam and somehow feel it will stop them enjoying the game there are literally hundreds of thousands of Steam users that can testify that the system works.
I'd be willing to bet there are more than a few of us here that would be willing to help out if anybody has any difficulty.
The beauty of PC gaming is that there is always a solution to every problem.

Looks like few ppl just woke up, after 10 years of playing sturmovik exclusively, only to realize that the gaming world around them has changed...