Shame on you for using STEAM !
 

http://il-2-sturmovik.ubi.com/cliffs...log/uk/?p=1162

from an user that had only had bad experinces every time i had to use steam - most times was not able to play the games...

Well thats f*****d it. :(

It may not be liked by everyone but I have bought around 90 games that run on that service with no issues at all. I find it a pretty slick service.

How are online wars played on steam Revvin?

Never had trouble with Steam. all the games i have bought through steam have worked.

i have calmed down a bit :D

i still hope that this steam stuff is only a possibility for online play like in the past with UBI.
That you can still use tools like the Hyperlobby and are not forced to play via steam !

i guess some clarificationj is needed from official side here please !

Oleg commented some months ago that Steam would be included on the publisher's request, but 3rd party tools like hyperlobby would still be possible. Not sure if that info is till up to date though.

Judging by the conflicting info about the release at UBI I doubt even they know whats going in...

I had a terrible time trying to get Half Life 2 to run on release day, and for the next week as well. Mind you that was 5/6 years ago and I have not had a single issue since then.

No matter what setup you use, there is always going to be some unlucky guy who gets a string of bad experiences.

Well, the big issues will appear if steam tries to mess with customised installs (patching etc.), has compatibility issues or hems in multiplayer modes.

IMHO, the issues Silent Hunter V had with DRM wouldn't have existed if it was a FPS. If your shooting ten bullets at an opponent and your saving game cause the two which are airborne to disappear - it is no big deal. But, if you've spent three hours setting up a torpedo run in a Type-II and saving game causes half of your torpedoes for that tour to vanish from the water...

A lot of these big companies don't understand our genre.

HL2 , no go
Modern Warfare only after some very deep search in the forums
TotalWar Empire no go

i have preordered the Collectors Edition of CoD so far. But im thinking to switch to the standard edition (not so much money wasted in case STEAM will not allow me to use the game , again..) or to cancel it totaly.
I am waiting for some more information from official !C or UBI side about the need of STEAM use in CoD.

I have been using Steam for more than 5 years without a single problem.In fact Im glad that it will be available through steam.

but a second questionj is dou you want it play online exclusivly through steam too ??

if the install/purchase and online play via STEAM is a CHOICE , its totlay OK.
But if you are forced to use STEAM...

the statement on the UBO püage is not totaly clear in that, at least in my understanding as a non native english speaker.

Definitely having it as a choice should be the right decision.No doubts about that.

I use Steam pretty much exclusively, and honestly prefer games that use it's match making service too. I've never had issues with Steam itself, but someone used the example of Moder Warfare, and the recent Total War, which if we are totally honest were buggy piles of crap at launch. That isn't Valve or Steamwork's fault when a publsisher/developer hocks off some bloody awful port that won't run for most people.

These issues need to be pointed out and seperated. Steam can't be held accountable for the short comings of the publishers/developers that offer their software through Steam any more than you can hold a B&M store accountable in that regard. Does Steam have it's issues? Sure. All software has issues. I for one am not going to go into panic mode over this. If day one comes and I pay forth my money to get Il-2 Cliffs of Dover and it can't or won't run I will be up in arms, and likely will request a refund. I, however, highly doubt that will be necessary. Steam has improved in functionality and usefulness in leaps and bounds since the early days of HL2.

To another question that was brought up (or a couple actually): a)Whether or not I can mod my game with Steam? Yes, just like any other bit of software find the file and change it. Steam will not change it back unless an applied patch does that. (i.e. the developer's patch undoes all mods)
b) Can I run the version of the game I want to run (i.e. I don't like the current patch and want to run an older version)? Yes, and no. You can back up the current version to a separate folder for posterities sake, and if a new patch comes out that you don't like you can pull the old files out. You will have to set the game to not auto update, but hold onto that older file because when Steam starts back up it will update an out of date version of the game in it's subfolders. This does not mean the same thing as erasing mods.

160 games through steam. only game I have issue with and can't run is Rome: Total War, and that is because I use windows 7 and that game can't run on this OS.

It will all depend on the lobby included in the game in fact. It it's as good as Hyperlobby, then no issue, Steam or not

Just because it is on Steam doesn't mean it will use steam lobbies or match making.

For example, I bought Dirt 2 on steam, but it uses GFWL *games for windows live* for matchmaking etc.

I bought MOH on steam, but that uses in game lobbies etc.

As other people may have said, this makes me worry to what extent will steam be required. ie will it be necessary if you are playing online? Will it need to be on when playing single player? The only thing we can hope is that Oleg and team are generally in favour of the customer. The publisher is of course another matter, i guess we'll see what happens.

Already got Steam installed so no problem here. Got 11 games so far and none have given me grief, even Empire: Total War. Gotta admit I really love the sales they have on steam, Kane & Lynch 1 and 2 for 8€ last week, yes thank you!

I for one am very pleased that its going to be on Steam (even though there's not a single word about CoD on it currently)... the service has been very reliable for some years now.

id say over 50% of the games in my steam library are downloaded straight from Steam.

Depending on how much of the Steamworks SDK they use for online play it may just take a large step forward. No need for external apps, an integrated friends list so you could see if your squad mates are online and potentially what server they are on and be one click away from being able to automatically join them. You can set up groups online in Steam too so you could have a group for this whole forum to see when people are online or set up a group for your squad. As I said it depends how much of Steamworks they use but things like the overlay which allows you to send out messages to mates while still in the game can also be a benefit. Also if it activates via Steam then it may work like other games where you buy the cd copy, activate your key in Steam but then if you have to reinstall at a later date and your CD is damaged you can download it free from Steam because you registered the key. VAC or Valve Anti Cheat is not perfect but it should keep out a lot of cheats which is surely a good thing.

I did have some problems with Steam in its early days. That was a long time ago.

I didn't have any problems with Steam for atleast 6 years now. I usually buy games over Steam, if i can't find them cheaper elsewhere.

Errr...the same way they are on every other service, maybe? Using server scripts and dedicated server software. Steam does not affect this. This server, for example is advertised on Hyperlobby and Xfire, it doesn't matter which one you use. What you want to be worrying about is the quality of the dedicated server/server management software.

Another benefit of Steam being integrated into Cliffs of Dover is the fact that you can keep track of those little shits that use Wonder Woman mode, or people you suspect running at really low resolutions for advantages, and just not play with them. Blacklist those s.o.b. in your community groups.

You can also help spread the word about the game by just playing. People you have friended will see you playing it and possibly ask you what it is, and hell before you know it more people are buying it, and then their friends ask them about it so on and so forth. I think any downsides to Steam are really negated by the many many upsides it offers as a platform for gaming. It has in all honesty breathed new life into the PC gaming market, and I for one am glad it exsists. I've discovered new games and new genres through it, and introduced others to games and genres they would never have played.

If you focus on the negative you will never see the positive and I am just trying to add a bit of that light, and yes I am a huge fan of Steam. It resurrected gaming on my favorite platform, the PC.

and isnt that determined by the developer of the game and not Steam?

Yes. That is exactly my point.

rgr that.

Quote: Please note that the game will also use the Steam platform for services such as matchmaking, anti-cheat etc… So you will need a Steam account to play the game. "

But no pre-order yet on steam.... again UBIFAIL.

I dont want to download the game on ubishop.
I already use steam and impulse. I dont need a 3rd online buy/download system.

Ok Edit

I was under the impression there was more than one way to use the online aspect

1. Internal browser in the CoD GUI
2. External Source (Now know to be Steam)
3. Third Party Software.

If its solely Steam Online Play it wall fail like the UBI servers did back in 2001

Ubisoft's faq in the OP

matchmaking wtf:confused:?dont like the sound of that

Thxz edited above.

No problem.

Interesting to note that while it includes that steam line in the UK's ubi post, that line is completely missing in the ubi forums US page which has the same info almost word for word.


Steam is a virus...a control tool and will never make its way back on to any computer system I own.

I didn't buy SH5 because of the forced steam issue.
I didn't buy N:TW because of the steam issue ( and because ETW was such a disappointment and forced me to be on steam to multiplay)
Playing ARMA2 CO is a perfect example of why I won't deal with steam. I can run the game without a hitch, and make choices for myself. Squad members who bought it via steam are forced to take patches the DAY the are released on steam, regardless of settings, keeping them off the server...just as one example. I won't go into the nightmare that is encountered if they want to run mods like ACE2 for example.

While steam might be some kind of neat little thing for games like halo, I have no desire to have my gaming and chat controlled and recorded to be sold by 3rd party companies like valve. They can keep their software...I don't want it again, thank you.

My use of Steam doesn't mean I enjoy retarded console games. Hell I see people in here praising garbage like the Call of Duty games. Don't try and make it out that it is some kind of console fanboi thing. It single handedly brought PC gaming back onto the market.

How does Steam control your chat? It doesn't really "control" your gaming either. It creates a library of the games you own and lets you play them at your will while simultaneously keeping them patched to the latest version. You can easily do mods for a game in your Steam library like any other game, and as a matter of fact Valve(which is the people who CREATED Steam and not a "third party") offers up and promotes mods made for their games. You are spouting untruths and misinformation, and passing it off as fact. If you want an older version of your game then back it up, and when steam updates it for you as a convenience just replace the new version with the older one you backed up.

The only reason I see you would have a problem modding a game in your Steam library is you aren't competent enough to find the folder to put it in, but you would have that issue if you didn't have the Steam version.

As to their privacy policy Yes, they do offer none identifiable information to third parties, such as what games you play. This isn't something new. Do you honestly think that when you register a game from a publisher that they don't do this same thing?

Well, i never register any games with any publishers. Also, having to back up an entire game folder to keep an older version is a major pain in the balls and exactly what half the IL2 community was bitching about when mods appeared: multiple installations. Well, if it's bad when the modders do it it's also bad if publishers do it, we can't have double standards.

In any case, i shouldn't have to be forced to jump through fiery hoops to enjoy something i paid for, especially when it's common knowledge that it is perfectly capable of working as it should without the layers of tacked on external software and without needing extra work. It doesn't need the devs to spend time on it to improve it, when in fact it's the integration with all the external applications that is costing them time. If they didn't integrate with them the game would probably be more customizable, run smoother and save them time as well.

See, this is the issue with all these external apps. They are supposed to be "added value" tools and this is true but only up to a point, because they usually introduce as much inconvenience as they do useful features.

In steam's case the only worthwhile advantage for a player would be the ability to download the game if the original disc gets damaged. The whole "friend's list" and contacts feature is nice to have but not critical. Finally, for people who are already owners of other Steam games it's a good chance to advertise CoD to their existing friends, for example when you log in and they see "player X is not playing Cliff of Dover".

As for disadvantages, forced patching and multiple backups required to circumvent it are downright unacceptable. I sincerely hope they only use it as a mutliplayer lobby that can be bypassed and not as an all-in-one "manage your entire game experience" tool.

Finally,

That's my take on things as well. We know it will already have Solidshield DRM, so i guess that Steam is not there for copy protection. I hope they only plan to use it as a match-making/multiplayer lobby service.

I don't mind it as long as
a) it works
b) it doesn't force any additional DRM checks on top of Solidshield
c) it can by bypassed if i want to use another multiplayer server browser
d) i can revert to an older patch and finally
e) i can install the game to the drive and folder i want to


A lot of conditions some of you might say, but i'm a customer and since i'm not asking for something new (it's not exactly cutting edge technology to have the ability to select your installation folder or skip a problematic patch until the hotfix is released) i think it's not much to ask.

Anything less and i'll still get the game, but i'll lobby and raise a fuss on Ubi's forums to make it optional in the next expansion until i'm blue in the face, and that's a commitment :evil:

Gotta love the anti-steam fuss. Let's see if we can match the whine that Civ5 had!
Besides the steam anticheat (VAC?) is more than wellcome.

Steam does not force you to patch, there is an option on every game to set it to manual not automatic updates.

True dat!

Hate to break it to you, but 1C are the big proponents of Steam. I am suspeting that it is 1C that is in charge of the DD decision here(speculative based on things said by Oleg and Ilya maybe they can confirm deny this) If that is the case then more money will go to 1C for a Steam purchase.

As for the backing up thing being a pita I agree, but at the same time if the game does exclusively use the Steam MP platform then the need for backups would be moot anyway. I honestly don't know why someone would be a huge advocate of running older buggier versions of software other than the very few instances that a patch makes a game less playable than it was before.

Your opinion on what is worthwhile is not factual ergo I will leave it at that.

a. Barring the highly unlikely chance that 1C Maddox releases it in a super buggy state, it will work.

b. Steam doesn't force DRM checks beyond when you are using it in online, and that really is just a "is this in their owned games list?". Nothing intrusive just a quick load screen.

c. unfortunately the way it's worded I suspect that it will use the steam MP platform by default, but I imagine there will be a mod from this community to circumvent that if possible.

d. I already laid that out, yes it's a pita, but it allows that.

e. You tell Steam where it installs itself and it will always add your Steam software to that folder (it creates subfolders that your games go in in that drive.) Not sure the importance of putting it in special folders. Understand the drive thing and just trying to ensure you understand how it works.

All in all I hope no one boycotts the game because of Steam, and maybe just maybe some of you will find that you actually like Steam. I was really adverse to it in the beginning too, but I can't really imagine doing a lot of my PC gaming without all the conveniences and fringe benefits it offers.

Well, i prefaced everything with a clear enough "i don't mind as long as". It's not like i'm claiming facts that Steam is a certain way, i'm just saying what i don't like IF it's a certain way ;)

On this particular matter however

there are many reasons to keep running an older version. Usually, dedicated servers take some time to catch up with the latest version. If they too update via Steam then this won't be an issue.

Another reason is mods. I still don't have 4.10 because i knew that the mod pack i use would have to wait for the 4.101 hotfix first before releasing a new mod pack version that's compatible with it. This will depend on how mods will be handled in CoD.

Finally, it's not uncommon to have a patch introduce new bugs along with fixes to older ones. I want to have some control over what version i'm using for this exact reason, sometimes the new bugs can be worse than old ones so i skip an update until everything is sorted out.

This has been an issue for some RoF players as well, because with every few updates the system requirements are going uphill a notch. Some people have computers that are perfectly capable of running it in the state it was 3-4 patches back, but they don't have the option to rollback because the updates are forced. Well, anything that shuts a legitimate buyer out is bad as a matter of principle, plus it's one more reason to prefer a pirated copy for many people. I've used cracks on a few games i bought just for that reason, the cracked one worked better than the stock one and this is just absurd no matter how we look at it.

As for the rest of your post, i appreciate your explanation on how steam actually works. If i can install on the drive of my choice and have the ability to update manually (as someone else stated is possible) then it's a big reassurance.

I'm not anti-Steam as a principle, i just don't want unnecessary layers of complexity interfering with my gaming. I mostly fly offline and only use a couple of servers when going online, flying with a small set of people. In that sense the fringe benefits of Steam integration are completely useless to me. I'm not saying it shouldn't be there because it's useless to me, since it is clearly useful to others. However, i appreciate not having someone's software set-up preferences forced on me just like i'm not keen on forcing my own on others. Introducing a lot of features and making them optional is what works best in the long run for everyone involved.

VAC is a toothless old dog, that can't bite any of the cheaters. Look at CS:S or COD. Absolutely useless.

Yes I can sympathise about the RoF system requirements suddenly ramping up. About a year or o ago I bought RoF and on my old dual core system with 2GB ram it just about ran with just me and a computer pilot dogfighting. I was ok with that because I took a chance on buying it then knowing I'd upgrade anyway at some point (though circumstances meant that upgrade got delayed a year). So quite happily I'd hone my 1 on 1 dogfighting skills waiting for the day I'd upgrade. It was fun doing that but then a patch went live and suddenly my little 1 vs 1 ground my PC to a halt. I was into very low single digit FPS and the game was unplayable. Since then I've upgraded so I can play again but appreciate how patches can impact performance.

That said you can chose to not update a game via Steam, its just a quite right click on the game and selecting its properties and select not to automatically keep up to date. I think though with 1C's track record we're safe from any game killing patches. I hope that those cautious about Steam will perhaps find as many of us did that its not something to be cautious about but in fact something I'm happy to see when developers use the Steamworks system.

Another thing regarding Steam: if the decision to use the steam libraries wasn't made a few weeks ago, I don't think we will see a release on the 25th with working multiplayer. Integrating a framework this far down the development process will take some time.

Which does not work at all with Arma2/Arma2 OA whether you have those options selected or not. It forces you to patch. And you don't get a patch...you get the entire patched game re-downloaded to your HD. Fun for those guys that chose valve instead of hardcopy.

I don't care whether it is offered on steam for those who prefer it that way. I am hugely against FORCING EVERYONE to use steam to play multiplayer. I will not have it back on a system I own.

Please do go into the nightmare that is encountered.

I have every piece of DLC for the game, I've installed all of the mods I want (Even ACE2!), I play online with several different groups of people and I have never had an issue because the game is on steam.

Nothing wrong with the service at all, been a happy customer since the beginning with minor issues. This should give the sim great publicity, besides most steam related issue can be traced back to the users, aka not steams fault.

Bullshit, steam and mods work perfectly. Some good examples would be Counterstrike, Ro, Half Life , seriously half of the folks around here dissing steam havnt even tried it or doesn't know how to use it.. pathetic.

You don't think changing your batch file in some remote call is a headache? Perhaps your computer skills are much higher than the average person. I have walked through arma2 steam issues with people enough to know I won't do it anymore (one of the steam guys handles all the issues with steam users now). I never said it won't work...what I said was it is not easy to make it work. PITA is a term that comes to mind.

I don't care. I rent a small arma server for our squad. This last 6 months has seen a number of patches released...and I could control when I put a patch up on the server...but the steam guys always forced the issue or couldn't play because of they are controlled by valve.

All that said...its a choice. Which I like. because I choose not to have steam installed to I can be part of data collection for marketing and a simpler operation overall without 3rd party crap. When the choice is removed, thats what I have issue with.

Nice.

Did it not occur to you that its the developer at fault and not Steam? Other games download small patches and update, Team Fortress 2, Call of Duty games etc.

You could choose to keep your server up to date. Steam also auto updates the server software btw.

For anyone who is interested there is already a group on Steam for IL-2 CoD here: http://steamcommunity.com/groups/IL2COD

Break out the tinfoil hat :rolleyes:

Steam is okay, hasn't always been okay, but now it's reliable. I had trouble with Empire: Total War some years ago, but with Darkest Hour and Red Orchestra ( FPS games) I have had zero trouble so far.

ETW was buggy! NTW is fine by now!

Most of the time on Multiplayer it says " you lost connection to Steam" or "You dropped frome the game" when infact you neither lost your connection nor that NTW crashes or you quit the game! its just ends the Multiplayer battle this piece of crap!!!! I hate it!

I am well aware of the options, thanks. For the cost I chose not to spend the money on a true dedicated server that would allow a remote connect to install exe's. But thanks for the helpful suggestions.

Agree, I personally have Empire Total War, and that game was a mess from the beginning. Was it steams fault? Nope, it was Creative Assembly and their utterly broken game, not steam.
It's funny how some can't tell the difference, if its on steam and broke its suddenly steams fault. Another obvious game with a ton of issues was Modern Warfare 2.. a complete disaster in every way possible, guess its steams fault also?

You don't read much do you? How do you think they make all their money? Its not game sales as much as you would think. It's data sales.

http://www.valvesoftware.com/privacy.html

Thats just the start. Like I said, if you choose to use that service, good for you. I choose not to. Why should I be forced to?

So.....your argument is really more about being change due to fiscal concerns than any actual issue with Steam. I'm not saying I can't see your points, but to be fair this isn't really Steam's fault.

Yes it does suck that sometimes a game works better in an older version than it does in a newer version, but honestly isn't that more a dev issue than Valve's? Steam's "don't autoupdate feature" works as long as Steam is working, but if you shut it down and start it back up it will update anything that isn't up to date. I do agree this feature needs to be fixed, but to use this as some point of vehement despise for the entire platform is a bit over the top you've got to admit.

Edit: was being an ass fixed it to be more polite

Thats was cleverly snipped to make it look as bad as possible, do you write newspaper headlines by any chance? If people read on then it does clearly state:

It's just one of the many reasons I don't use steam. You have to admit having a feature called "don't auto update" that only works while you are online is pointless if it updates on reboot regardless.

I don't understand why so many are so passionately defending that service. Seems kind of silly to me.

Steam is the best platform for PC gaming around atm. Its also the most profitable.

a) I did agree.

b) No more silly than your bashing and flat out being disingenuous or lying about it.

You must work for the news service...your post kind of proves my point.

But since you are choosing to take snippets instead of grabbing the information as a whole, let me do more work for you.

By the time you add in all the little "click I agree" check boxes in those purposely long agreement statements, you've pretty much agreed to whatever they want from you. If someone sat you down and asked you in plain English for all the things they are collecting and asking for, you would tell them to go f themselves no way would you agree to than. but its easy to hide in the "crap i want to play let me click it" boxes.

We can go on and on. The point is, I choose not to be part of the corporate information and control machine. Why is that making you angry? Should I NOT be allow to make my own choices?

Lying? Done with you.

I use my PC for work as well as entertainment. Several UBI games I purchased in years past gave my ability to burn DVDs the fits. I ended up uninstalling the games. Secure ROM on IL2 sometimes gave me burner issues as well. I imagine the security measures employed scanned and found out I can make ISO.files and create discs from them.

I don't have STEAM, and am really not too hyped on 'becoming a member' just so I can play CoD off line. Any of our members have issues with burning DVD discs for video edits and STEAM?

Why would I tell them to go 'f' themselves? if you read the terms they are not passing on data, that would be illegal in most countries for a start under data protection laws nevermind the country Valve is registered in.

I'm not angry about anything, it appears you are very angry but I'm just trying to provide a little balance to an argument where you make misleading statements calling it a virus etc.

Of course you can choose not to have Steam on your system, but you don't have any right to play IL-2: CoD.

Ok lets keep the bad language out of these posts please

Thank you

@Vyper

It's your responsibility alone to check what you agree upon, doesn't matter if its a wall of text.

With that said, there is no hidden agenda, no conspiracy , no Swat team waiting to storm your house and reveal your very secret identity. Read the terms in-depth and you'll hopefully realize that Steam is completely harmless.

Can't say bout those two, but TF2 seemed pretty clean of cheaters when I still played it.
Anyhoo, some protection is better than none :)

ly·ing 2 (lng)
v.
Present participle of lie2.
adj.
Disposed to or characterized by untruth: a lying witness. See Synonyms at dishonest.

e.g.At very least it is dishonest, but then that's the same thing as a lie.

I've never had a problem with STEAM

and i've picked up some fantastic bargains...

The complete CIV4 works for £3.74 over Xmas....!!!

Steam? Never had any problem with it. Let's wait and see.

all new releases have there birthing issues...how much SolidShield and Steam play in this remains tobe seen.

S!

I wouldn't worry too much about Steam itself. Steam is a digital distributor/game community, nothing else. It has all the Steam benefits, like updating, patching and unlimited downloads etc. but it doesn't grip you by the balls like 777 does with Rise of Flight.

My Steam versioned IL-2 is just like IL-2 hardcopy and the only real difference is that I need to find my game folder in the Steam folder. That's it. Doesn't matter to me if CoD:IL-2 needs a one time activation through Steam/SolidShield or from the game itself.

Correct same thing for me, I use ultrapack for my IL2 copy (thru steam) no problems at all..

Steam is very nice. Never had a problem with it.

In fact I like the autopatching, the soft DRM and I also like cheat-protection.

Of course I also like the fact that the developers get's 70% of the money earned from Steam as opposed to 30-40% on conventional methods. IMHO Maddox Games deserves the money more than UBI, but your opinion may differ?

Like many posters here, I like Steam, have used for more than 5 years without any problem at all, which is quite a testimony to its reliability.

I note that a number of Steam opponents here base their opinion on the experience friends had, things they've heard or things that happened once 6 years ago. If CoD uses Steam for a number of significant features, then it's probably too late to stop this from happening, and the best for people who don't know Steam is probably to try and see guys; just try new things instead of bashing them... It's amazing the amount of negativity around here, it's the end of world at every single little piece of news... *sigh*

By the way, everybody is anxious about the fact that the game is lacking promotion: Steam is exactly that, a huge promotion tool. With its huge user base, it's a platform that has got a wider reach than any other. Hell, I know a number of non sim people that bought IL 1946 when it came to Steam - they had never heard about IL-2 before.

i just tried a few minutes ago to install Empire TotalWar from my DVDs.........just because so many have praised STEAM to heavan :)
i was not surprised actually to get the error message (like in the past) "not enough harddrive space" again :D

as long i dont have to install CoD throgh STEAM, i am ok :) i have ordered the CE DVDs.

Especially when we see that the new Assassins Creed game is announced on Ubi's Steam catalogue 17th of March but not a word on Ubi's Steam about CoD:IL-2. I checked Steam just now and it has 3.000.000 gamers online as we speak. If Ubi could get their thumbs out of their behinds, they'd plaster CoD:IL-2 all over Steam. My guess is that Ubi's pi$$ed that Steam gives 70% back to the developer instead of publisher.

@ptisinge: I had never heard about IL-2 before I got Steam and look at me now. LOL

@Frankyboy: Have you tried installing Steam on a drive that actually has the space required? How many drives do you have and which one do you have Steam installed to? Default is C:. I have Steam installed on a separate drive.

Frankyboy - what os are you using?

OK - good bye then!

Vyper - you are Galen Thurber and I claim my £10!

God, it's been so long since this guy used to stalk Hyperlobby, I'd almost completely forgotten about him.

You must be the same guy, right? Exactly the same arguments and approach.

For those who may not remember him:

http://flightsimhq.org/hyperlobby/index.php

I had no idea you were back in a business. Time to invest in aluminium, those tinfoil rolls are going to start flying off the shelves again!

I've been using Steam since day one (2003?) and I only had a problem once with some obscure old game that I bought on a sale for a few euros. I emailed support and they fixed it the day after (some issue with too many buying it so the keys ran out ;)). Other than that I think it works great... A few months ago I got annoyed that I had once chosen the default install dir on C: and wanted to move it to my large D: drive. Moved the whole steam dir and was scanning for which settings to fix to get it running - but I tried starting it before doing anything... And it worked like a charm! All games just worked even though I had moved it to another drive "under the sheet"... Nice!

EDIT: My only issue with Steam is the 1 euro = 1 dollar issue that is really annoying...

I love reading all the STEAM hysteria, it's hilarious. STEAM is great in what it does and to me the DRM mentioned on that link is pretty reasonable.

Re: The collection of information ... get a grip. Do you have a bank account? ATM/EFTPos Card? Credit Card?. Have you signed up to an ISP? Do you have a mobile phone? Do you use a private or public library card?

Every time you make a purchase using a card or use a service where you were required to set up an account of some sort, you can bet your life that information about your purchase / usage of said product or service is being recorded. It's no different with STEAM. Get over it people, nothing is secret any more.

Steam is awesome. I've never had any real issues with it.

This has been talked about in past communication with the developers and that's when the first suspicions about Steam use started circulating. I think that the actual quote (ok, slightly paraphrased as i'm going from memory here) was that "we are currently adding the multiplayer functionality/lobby tools at the request of the publisher".


At the end of the day, we're not trying to force you guys not to like steam. We just want to have a choice not to use it, to have a choice of rolling back a patch without copying the entire game folder and so on, without having someone else's preferences imposed on us. I don't hate Steam, i hate the lack of choice in the matter when it's clearly obvious that

a) it's not included as a copy protection method (it has Solidshield DRM) and
b) it just adds some nice side-benefits for online play, which however are definitely not essential items for the success of the title

IL2 had a developer sponsored multiplayer feature as well and nobody used it in the end. For CoD the only real advantage of using Steam is word of mouth advertising for the product (which is definitely a big deal and the only reason i'm willing to compromise), as for what actually has a direct impact on the players it's just some nice to have but definitely non-essential matchmaking features.

I didn't use friend lists in Hypperlobby, i never auto-update anything without first waiting to see if it messes up someone else's PC unless i know i can roll the patch back, i only ever joined 2-3 specific servers that catered to my preferences of online flying, have only flown with a small amount of people and it's not only for flight sims. I have starcraft2 and there's only 4 people in my in-game contact list, all of which are my real life friends. There are even more friends of mine that play the same game and yet they are not in my contact list. If i want to play a game with them i'll give them a call on the phone and add them, but i certainly haven't found some magical super-functionality in Blizzard's battlenet service just because it automated a couple of things. In fact, more often than not it's the negative stuff that stands out: forced update in the middle of a match and lag spikes, which is understandable when playing against someone who's 1500km away but not when playing against a buddy in the same room, on a PC that sits on the same router, just because Blizzard decided to ship the game without a LAN feature. The only reason i've bought SC2 is because it's mostly a multiplayer thing for me...since i will already be online to do what i want to do, i can compromise with some of their stupid design decisions. That's not the same for games that have a significant offline gameplay component however.

I don't go around the internet adding random people in contact lists and CoD won't change this, so Steam for me is basically a bunch of things i will never use that come at the potential of hassle if i want to have multiple installs or rollback a patch at some point, which i often do. It seems that each day software companies are pushing for more automation at the cost of being unable to actually tinker with your PC...some day in the future we'll end up with glorified consoles to play with that sport the customization potential of a washing machine :-P
That doesn't mean things should be difficult all the time, it doesn't mean they should be railroaded super-automatic all the time either though. If i want to mess with what's under the hood, there better be a way for it otherwise the community will make its own: that's what makes the PC a Personal Computer ;)


Long story short, the final tally ends up in the negatives for me, it could be just fine for someone else though.

This doesn't meant i'm bashing Steam, it just means that Steam is unsuitable for what i want to do with this game. It might be perfect for what someone else does though, so that's all i'm saying in the end: let both of us have a choice to enjoy this fine piece of entertainment software instead of mulling over how outside software can enhance or detract from our enjoyment.

This is what it's all about. Just like we get scalable, customizable difficulty and realism options we should also have customizable software setup options.

For example, i bet 90% of the people will be flying with simplified engine management the first few days while learning the ins and outs and the differences between CoD and IL2.
Well, how would you feel if complex engine management was enabled by default and the first few times you went online you got schooled by people who fly a bit of FSX or X-plane on the side, just because your engine constantly blows up and their doesn't because they are familiar with operating limits and checklists?
Wouldn't you be frustrated at your inability to choose not to use one of the game's features if it had an impact on your gameplay experience? Oh, i bet most of us would.

This is what it's all about and nothing more. I'm not going to boycott the sim, in fact i ordered a collector's edition from a relative who's studying abroad, but i can fully understand people who will pass it up due to the lack of options to satisfy their opinion on how a piece of software should function once it's paid for and installed on their PC.

This is the thing most publishers fail to realize: by trying to shepherd the customers through removing their choices they are forcing them to make another choice that will hurt them the most, the choice of not buying the game at all.

EDIT: Steam could work just fine for CoD and in the end i could be proven completely wrong. In fact, i very much hope i'm proven wrong. However, the best way to do this is to tailor Steam to the needs of CoD and not the other way around. Steam is not the spawn of the devil and it's much more user friendly than other platforms (eg, you can play offline and you can also download the game again if your disc is damaged, this is a big plus), so all we would need is three simple things to make it perfect: the ability to have multiple installations, the ability to patch manually and the ability to roll back a patch. The rest is fine.

That battlenet sounds dreadful. If steam was anything like that I'd be very unhappy.

Blackdog, I think you need a time out man. Talk about painting the world black lol.

Steam is fine and convienient , get off your high horse. I have about 20 games from steam.

I love steam - works great. Good MP choice 1C.

Bad thread title is bad tho.

The faq has not been further clarified as of yet, but it does seem to be indicating that Steam is required. Hopefully we'll know for certain soon.

It is not spy or malware that is factually incorrect.

You are monitored in every aspect of your life by far more sinister and intrusive elements than Steam. Realistically, you've nothing to fear from it. For instance, the Steam hardware surveys are tremendous - why would you worry about that? You can of course opt out of them.

here's the last one: http://store.steampowered.com/hwsurvey

I personally adore SteamWorks. Pre-ordered IL-2:CoD a week ago from a physical store. Hoping it will allow me to register the product code when it arrives so I can handle the logistics through there instead of installing from discs or UBI's own download service.

I love steam.
I have 81 games on steam.
Yes it sucked when Half life 2 launched. But that is long ago.
Yes it sucked a bit when call of duty black ops launched, but what do you expect when 80.000 users try do download the game? (Yes the install cd with data on it did nothing. Mistake in the installer. So almost all of the 80.000 users downloaded the whole game tru steam instead of installing the game from the dvd and then downloading the decrypt stuff from steam.

By the way the installer problem was not a problem cause by steam.
Activision made the same mistake in the installer of call of duty modern warfare 2. So they used the exact same installer (code) for CoD Black ops.

I love Steam, it helps me remove stamps for my collection.

Blogs been updated,you will need steam for offline play as well...

Steam has a offline mode.
And who cares this day and age?
My internet connection is always ON. So whenever one of my pc's is turned on its online.
All people i know also have that.

After reading this, it looks like the boxed version is little more than a single coin tossed at Oleg and team:

http://www.mcvuk.com/features/808/OP...etail-vs-Steam