Some freetrack questions
 

I recently had a power outage at home and it seems that some kind of power surge screwed up my trackIR 4 camera.

Needless to say i was somewhat irritated to put it mildly (i've had it since Oct 2008 so it's not exactly old). In any case, the LEDs on my trackclip pro still work and i have a webcam (ms lifecam vx-5000), so i thought i might try out freetrack in the meantime and if it's good enough, i might actually keep using it and save some money too.

I understand that i might need to modify the webcam too but it's also used for its original purpose (video calls to relatives abroad with skype), so i wouldn't want to totally remove the IR filter.
What i might do is just place a piece of photographic film on top of it with some adhesive tape or blue-tack whenever i want to fly, so that i can remove it afterwards.

To sum up, i already have a 3-LED assembly and a webcam.
So, my main question is, what are the configuration changes i need to apply to the freetrack software so that it works with the trackclip pro? Also, any special recommendations for the webcam settings (exposure, frame rates, etc)?

You know how it is, once you use head tracking it's very hard to go back, in fact i haven't flown any sim at all since my trackIR camera stopped working. Thanks in advance. ;)

You don't need to change Freetrack at all to work with the track clip, aside from feeding it the size of the clip.

You will need to remove the IR filter on your camera and install a visible light filter. These are usually made from over exposed camera film or floppy disks.

Head over to the freetrack forum. You will find much more advice there.

As Letum said, you have to set the dimensions of your trackclip in the freetrack software

http://www.free-track.net/images/3pointsclipDIM.png

In my case, I removed the IR filter and it didn´t affect the image that much, so it can still be used for video calls. I would recommend that you first try to adjust the camera without removing the filter and in case you don´t get good results then remove it.

In this links you can find some tips regarding the camera configuration:

http://www.free-track.net/english/hardware/webcam.php

http://www.free-track.net/forum/index.php?showtopic=455

One trick I use to increase the size of the dots is to defocus the camera.
Hope this helps.

Thanks for the feedback but the dimensions is more or less what i've been looking for, since i seem to have lost my measuring tape and can't take them myself :grin:
Also, i've searched online before asking here and i've found all sorts of conflicting information about what dimensions to use.

There's also something else that's confusing me a bit. I selected the 3 point clip and i see the graph where you input the clip's dimensions. Below that there's 3 more sliders labeled horizontal, vertical and depth, which i guess are supposed to tell the interface how far away i'm sitting from the cam.

The entire field is labeled "model position: distance from head pivot (center of head, just below ear) to model translation point R", which i can't really figure out. Does it refer to my actual head or the 3d-head i see in the software (i assume the first, but why not ask and be sure)? Also, what's the point R?

Modifying the camera is not something i'm willing to do. So, if i don't remove the IR filter can i just make do with a piece of film or floppy disk material that i will use whenever i want to run a flight sim?
Also, if i make adjustments to the camera's settings will these apply only to when freetrack is using the camera? Or will they apply on a global basis, which means i'll have to revert to my original settings whenever i want to use the camera in its original role?

The reason i'm asking is that if i need to buy a second webcam just to be able to switch between freetrack and skype video calls, it would defeat the whole purpose of it. At that point i might just buy a used trackIR 4 unit from ebay and go back to something i'm already used to, instead of spending the time to configure an unfamiliar solution.

Thanks for you help again, let's hope i manage to make something out of it.

Measure it.
If it helps, trace it on paper and then measure the outline.




No, it's not about your position relative to the camera, it's about the distance the TIR clip is from the pivot of your head.

I dunno...why don't you try it and find out?

To start, I have TrackIR Ultra4 and Freetrack but prefer the latter by a long mile in terms of setting up and FT having axis hotkeys which are really useful in combat. The seting up of the Clip is from the mid point between the 'ears' (in your 'skull' so so to speak). In reality this is very much an estimate and I find has little impact on actual performance in game if the entered dimensions are wrong. What I do find is that these dimensions can be actually altered to suit how close or far you like to be from the monitor the screen and the location of the camera. FT is an excellent piece of software but unfortunately (AFAIK) will not be supported in CoD other than in mouse emulation (or similar alternatives). Hence why I have kept my TrackIR and not sold it!

The way I understood it is: Position of point R(Reference LED) to center of head.
Where can you adjust the distance point R to cam?

The whole point or tracking systems is that they work out the position of your head relative to the camera.
That's what they do.

You don't need to tell it where your head is relative to the camera.

I got it to track the LEDs without any filter modifications in a dark room by playing with the threshold slider. However, for some reason it doesn't register in the game.

In any case,i saw something even more worrisome when i tried to test it in QMB...it seems that my trusty MS sidewinder precision 2 is dead too.

I don't know what to think, i mean i've never heard of a power failure cooking hardware components that are fed by USB before. So, i took out both the stick and my trackIR camera and plugged them into my old PC (an AthlonXP running winXP), but to no avail.

It seems a highly twisted coincidence to me that out of all the peripherals on my PC the only ones to get affected are the the ones i use in flight simming. Truth be told, i don't trust my old Athlon's USB connectors that much, so the last bit of diagnostics will be to take the stick and trackIR camera to a friend's PC and try them out, just to rule out the possibility of faulty USB connectors/not enough power being fed.

Just out of curiosity, if it turns out that my peripherals are fine and it's the USB ports that are to blame, can i do something to fix that or do i have to get a new motherboard/power supply/whatever?

No, at least not in my experience with a Logitech Fusion. There are two relevant filters: first, removal of the IR filter to allow the camera to detect the IR light points brightly enough and, second, a visible light filter to stop the camera seeing anything else.

The aim of freetrack tinkering is that the webcam ONLY sees the IR light points. Therefore you need to a) remove the IR filter in the camera and b) add a visible light filter (floppy disc works really well). If you remove the IR filter you can still use the camera for video calls but the colour is gone since background IR floods the receptor.

Not great, in short, but on the other hand freetrack is just brilliant when you have it tuned. Remember to fiddle with camera settings in freetrack, exposure time in particular.

I tend to work close to the screen and found an improvement in the Z axis (FOV) response by moving the ref point backwards by -100mm or so. You don't have to do this but it worked for me in FT 6DOF is all I am saying. My 3 point clip is horizontal and on headphones (rather than a hat).



You must enable the TrackIR interface checkbox and not the Freetrack Interface for IL2 (in the FT software Output menu). If the skull is moving then you should see movement in the game since you already have TrackIR enbled in your config file.

I use infrared (IR) diodes that I sanded down to enhance the brightness. This way I can use in full sunlight.

We haven't gotten a fix on whether freetrack will work with BOB COD, because TrackIR has been working on some things to make TrackIR proprietary enough that headtracker wannabe cannot steal their business.

We will probably learn the outcome soon as information is released on the COD.

For now, the Freetrack works very well with Il2

I only did the freetrack, because I enjoy doing the electronic gimmickery.
My head piece took all day one Saturday to built, but it is just perfect for freetrack. It is built in very compact package and slides into a clip on my headset. Very professional, and it works extremely well every time I use it.

Steal?
You mean "compete for".

I don't know. I get your point, but most of the packages that would do what TrackIR is supposed to do are free. So... I don't think in terms of competition when they aren't trying to make money. Actually, if they were real viable competitors they would probably have to do some competent workarounds in the code not to be sued.

Whatever sounds best to you is fine with me.

Yeah, I think what TrackIR are trying to do to freetrack is like a supermarket trying to stop you growing your own vegetables in your back garden by sabotaging your seedlings that the friendly farmer gave you.
Its not right and its not fair. You should be able to make something you could otherwise buy, using separate items you bought or were given.

Another example: You buy a ball of wool (LEDs, resistors and batteries). You already have some knitting needles (webcam). Your Gran then teaches you how to knit a scarf (freetrack software). Then along comes someone from Topshop (TrackIR) and breaks your poor gran's hands.

well, actually i'm using freetrack clip for my headset done with drinking straws, white leds, non IR, and a ps3 eyecam at 640x480@75fps and works very well, without any filter removed. I really hope freetrack can be used with COD.

Jitter is...?

Camera settings: I think the most important thing is that your room lighting doesn't change during various times of the day. This can be a real hassle. Maybe one lamp in the background. I use lens from old ski goggles with yellow tint for filter. I tried exposed film, but it was too dark. I also did not remove or mod my web camera. In the camera settings, I zero out the following settings: sharpness, constrast, white balance, saturation. I max out brightness and gain. My camera has max 30 fps, so I set exposure to 1/30 seconds. Freetrack does a trick and produces an output at 120 fps. Automatic gain control is off and anti flicker is on. I also use RGB24 for stream/compression. With my camera settings, it is very easy to find where to dial the threshold in. There is not much "in between". It's either all red and not working, all black and not working, or it is working as one fairly fat red dot.

In your web camera software, try making the aspect ratio that your camera produces the same or as close as possible to your monitor and do the same in the freetrak camera section. I don't mean resolution (as the camera will likely produce much lower resolution than your monitor) I mean aspect ratio. I feel like the freetrack curves fit the rotation of my head better when I do this. If you can't match the ratios exactly because of the options the software provides, try to get as close as possible (e.g., all widescreen ratios).

Also, I use filed infrared led.

0 absolutely ZERO, it's perfect :-)

Don't talk about things you don't know.

FreeTrack has your OWN API. FreeTrack "steals" nothing. Tha math behind tracking points in space is free.

Bohemia Interactive deliver FreeTrack support. If IL-2:CoD didn't do the same, will be a real shame.

FreeTrack don't use new encripted NP API. Devs can use FreeTrack API, as Bohemia Interactive did, and to a decent job.

If IL-2:CoD didn't came out of box with FreeTrack support, shame.

Things are simple: NP can't stop FreeTrack users, because FreeTrack has your own API. But NP maybe give some money to games companies to not give FreeTrack API suport.

Wonders me why Bohemia Interactive can suport FreeTrack after requests and I still reading things like these Nearmiss wrote... I'm alway amazed how NP lies became true to some people. Ask Bohemia Interactive about FreeTrack support, please. They listen to the customers base. Please, read:

http://forums.bistudio.com/showthread.php?t=79821
http://forums.bistudio.com/showthread.php?t=90969

Let's not spread more NP lies around. If 1C wants, can give FreeTrack suport. It's easy. If 1C receives money from NP, please tell us. The NP customers that pay for an overpriced software will really be glad to know why they have to pay abusive price for a simple thing: cheap IR cam with simple traking software.

Note to myself:
Buy PS3 eyecam
Rem: No, wait till release of CoD..



Repeat it often enough, you'll be amazed who well it works.

There is no documentation regards the Transition Sliders ( the ones beneath the Model Point Construction Dimensions) but they can be used to set the optimum position of the LED clip with respect to the camera.

Rather than describe how it works simply do the following:-

1. Power up your LED clip, sit in your preferred position and with the Webcam facing your clip.

2. Start FT, do not press the Centre Hot Key and view the default location of the Skull. You will notice that there are two crosses, One RED the other BLUE, one attached to a fixed point in space and another affixed to the mid point of the skull.

3 Now adjust the Transition sliders in the X, Y and Z axis - the skull will move (in relation to the camera) and you can allign for a perfect default centre to the fixed X Y and Z reference lines.

Why is this included? One reason I suspect is that its bloody hard to actually get your clip in perfect centre to the field of view of the camera as you have to move your head to move the camera.....chasing ones tail never to catch it.....:grin:

Secondly, a thousand people could make a 'clip' and not one would be the same.....thats custom building at its best....:grin:


I calibrate the exact centre using the Transition Sliders (with a slight bias in the Z axis as I work close to the screen) and have perfect response in all axiz and find that I rarely have to keep re-centring my view ....try it is the best I can advise.

If CoD won't support Freetrack, i would really like to know that before the release.

Because i don't plan to buy TrackIR exclusively for CoD when Freetrack works fine with every other game i own.

The only reason NP are getting away with their position it's because headtracking is a new thing, with a relatively small market. Imagine Logitech trying to stop anyone else from building mices, or rather Logitech making deals with software developers (especially OS) so that any other mouse brand would not work in said software product.

I think it's a safe to say that this kind of monopolistic and anti-competitive bull* would not be tolerated should the European Comission catch wind of this. Rembember the massive fines m$ got just a few years back.

I really wonder if anybody has any proof, beside hearsay, that np has done any of those things they are alleged to have done.

http://naturalpointofview.blogspot.com/

Besides that, why any dev of IL-2:CoD can't answer now the simple question about FreeTrack API support?

Isn't a technical issue, because is easy as hell get the coordinates of FreeTrack API and put into the 6DOF inside IL-2:CoD.

Any word about the subject by Oleg or Luthier? The time is now!

+1, and I consider a lack of consumer respect have my questions about the subject IGNORED by the deav team until now. They talk about engine flames colour, but not about head tracking devices?

I don't recall at any time reading anything from the developers of any real substance about head tracking devices, even for IL2. Other than whether they are supported or no.

The community has been the real source of information on headtrackers.

When I read BOB COD was going to support clickable cockpits I immediately had thoughts about how head tracking would be facilitated.

Regardless, the release is in March... A lot of information will be coming our way.

I also use the Freetrack, and to be honest I love it. I've got an excellent setup now and it's exceptional.

Will I be willing to give it up for TrackIR? I will if I have to, and that sums it up. Will I be happy about it? Nope.

Will I boycott BOB COD, because freetrack won't work? Are you friggin' kidding me. I wouldn't give up a world class air combat experience for any headtracker.

I did the IL2 with my left hand on a trackball for several years, before freetrack.

I'll do it again if I have to, but NO I will not spite myself because of any ill temper I have about a headtracker.

=============

I don't see how NaturalPoint has anything they can patent.

I use a trackball mouse. Mouse action can be converted for use with head movement action.

I can move the cursor anywhere I want it with the mouse, so how can such a thing be patented?

Natural point might have the ability to have their own proprietary api on the game software linked to their application software, but I can't see why a freetrack couldn't do the same.

The only issue I would think is providing the api to the developer when the game is developed for it to be included within the game at release.

It's already available. BIS use FreeTrack API into ArmAII and Operation: Arrowhead.

It's just 6DOF coordinates, not rocket science. That's why I'm concerned about the total lack of devs feedback about that.

+10000000000000000000

exactly my thougts.... :cool:

P.S.
don't tease me about the color of my headset, ok? this was the only one i found :-D

I don't know if you have clout with freetrack developer, but that might be the place to start. The BOB COD development team hasn't gone Gold. That should indicate the inclusion of a freetrack api in the code is still probably possible.

Seriously, I doubt Oleg would want to get involved in supporting any monopoly software when it pays him nothing to take the risk of a lawsuit.

So... I would say YES, if the freetrack api is available they should promote it to Oleg or Luthier.

http://www.free-track.net/english/fr...chargement.php

I believe FreeTrack don't need to be "promoted". FreeTrack is open, have all tools inside, is a free software and a lot of simmers uses FreeTrack.

Into this download you have the SDK after installed - free and open source... Well, now I'm "promoting" FreeTrack, if nobody knows about it. FreeTrack is under GNU General Public License.

"FreeTrack interface
Open source interface for third party programs that provides raw point coordinates, camera resolution, raw pose and virtual pose data."

A LOT of people uses it as headtracking software. And I don't believe that 1C team, devs of major flight sims, never know about this piece of software. I'm amazed.

Well, if you not aware about FreeTrack existence, now easily can put FreeTrack native suport into IL-2:CoD now. I'm glad to help you with the link to FreeTrack download!

Thanks for the suport for FreeTrack users!!!

IMO we don't need special API's for head trackers - they just discourage competition, and REQUIRE the game devs to do extra work, and help prevent user-developed solutions.

The most sensible approach is to allow the six head tracking axes to be accessed just like any other axis that we use with sims.

AFTER THAT, if people want a special API so they don't have to manually assign six axes, then that's all well and good.

As said:

""FreeTrack interface
Open source interface for third party programs that provides raw point coordinates, camera resolution, raw pose and virtual pose data."

With FreeTrack interface we don't need "special" API. We can use even the raw point coordinates, do whatever someone want to do.

There you have some solutions... My choice of "promotion" I stand by.

I realize the connotations from the use of the word, but it might actually take some convincing of the developer... regardless of credentials, etc.

Moscow is a long distance from France, and maybe someone doesn't take Frenchmen serious.

Maybe.

Im a proud Freetrack user and Im also eager to know how well the NP Trackclip Pro works with the software as my 3 point clip is giving me problems(probably cause of my crappy construction skills).On one of the first videos of the game you can see Ilya demonstrating the Track Ir device so if Freetrack is not supported at first you should know why.Anyway I guess there will be a way to make it usable with Cliffs of Dover.Do any of you use the reflector clip or whatever is called with Freetrack?It seems it would be ideal with no cables to deal with.

I think i more or less get it now...if i'm getting this right, it seems like it's a feature that lets you move the "center point" of the virtual grid that the tracking dots are superimposed on, instead of having to physically reposition the actual LEDs and/or camera or shuffle around in your seat trying to find the optimal position. If so, it's a very good feature ;)

On another note, i think my webcam can track the IR leds from the trackclip Pro just fine if the room is dark. At least i can see 3 red dots with a cross on them in the black grid square and 3 green lights on the bottom right of the interface window, plus it shows a green icon when i minimize it to the taskbar so i guess it's working (i'm a bit unfamiliar with the interface so any corrections are welcome).

Funny thing is i didn't do any modifications at all, i didn't remove the webcam's IR filter neither did i use a floppy or piece of film as visible light filter. I just reduced the exposure to its minimum setting, disabled low light compensation and turned off the lights in the room, plus it's giving me a steady 30 FPS with zero jitter. I guess that it could work with the lights on if i used a bit of film to block out visible light, so the first obstacle is out of the way as it seems i won't have to modify it.

However, for some weird reason it doesn't register in-game. Also, the skull doesn't move around but i think i'm misunderstanding the interface here. In the trackIR software if i move around i can see a wireframe of a virtual head following my motions in the application's window (accelerated according to the profile/curves i'm using), so i was expecting the skull to do the same in the freetrack software. So, is it supposed to move when i move my head or does the red line protruding from the skull do that instead? I'm asking because it seems to be tracking fine and it also displays the position data and the accelerated data in the field below the 3d skull.

As for why it doesn't feed the data it tracks to the game, maybe it's simpler and it's just a DLL issue. I haven't uninstalled the trackIR software yet, so maybe i have to manually overwrite the existing DLL file with the one provided by freetrack.

In any case, thanks for all your help. If you could answer these last few questions i'd be grateful, otherwise i'll take it up to the freetrack forum for more detailed explanations. No worries either way however, you've all been very helpful and you got my thanks ;)

If its tracking the 3 leds and showing the 3 green lights it means it is working as it should.You should go to the profile tab and increase the sensitivity so that the skull moves when you move your head.Keep increasing until you are satisfied and be sure to increase the smoothness slider if the skull is moving too fast or it isnt consistent.The problem with the the tracking not working in-game is nothing to worry about probably you need to find a profile for that specific game so Freetrack can work with it.

The question is: We ll spend some cash to buy CoD, plus the cash to buy an upgrade or new machine, some ll buy new joy to enjoy the sim and some would like to use FreeTrack instead TrackIR to save some cash. TrackIR is so much expensive for the technology it have and they not have distribuitors in another parts of the world i ll have to import. Me for example to buy it ll have to pay trackIR+mail more 60% tax over trackIR+mail to enter my country, more 25% over 1.6*(trackir+mail) to my State. Total: 1.25*1.6*(trackIR+Mail). What a !!!!

Well, I don't have more worries, because now 1C know it's easy to have FreeTrack support, using the open source FreeTrack interface.

I don't see any technical problem at all. IL-2:Cliffs Of Dover will have FreeTrack support for sure, like ArmAII and Operation:Arrowhead.

An this without any need to use any part of NP software, just like BIS made, using FreeTrack own interface. No problem at all!

Blackdog_KT, I tried my TrackIR4 Ultra clip with FT and worked aboslutely fine. One thing that puzzles me in your reply is that you say the skull is not moving but that the axis data is changing. The skull must move - no movement of 'skull' will result in no tracking movement in game. There are occaisions when FT locks up and the 'Skull' no longer moves. Usually this is when FT cannot recognise the trackclip or there are too many lights point references due to stray or reflected interference, (movement data is shown - the skull freezes and tracking ceases).

Your first priority is to get the skull moving as (with Track IR) in response to head movement - untill that is resolved FT will not function in game. It only needs a tiny prick point of stray light to interfere with the skull's movement and cause lock up.
Check you have I420 in the 'Stream' camera setting Tab and SSE as the interface in the FT config file (which is what I have for a MS VX1000 webcam.)

There is a known issue with non standard Desktop Settings - open 'Control' - select 'Display' - 'Settings' - 'Advanced' Tab and check that DPI setting is 96 DPI.

The MS webcams tend to have Autoexposure enabled and the Checkbox greyed out. When you minimise FT the exposure can re-set to default. Not sure if this could be a problem but free software such as 'EnableButton' can be downloaded to make the Autoexposure checkbox available in the Camera set up options Tab.

Once the Skull is moving the only other things that should prevent in game movement are:-

1. Not checking/enabling the TrackIR Interface in the FT 'Output' tab/page.

2. Not having TRackIR enabled in the config (unlikely since you have been using TrackIR).

I cannot think of anything else at the moment.