![]() |
Friday 2010-12-17 Dev. update and Discussion
5 Attachment(s)
Hi,
today here is the result of our discussion from last Friday. Variois of exhausts at different RPM, etc: |
2nd
5 Attachment(s)
Second part
|
Thank you Oleg!!!
first reply! :-)) looking at it now... Incredible! Do I rally see exhaust puffs from each cylinder of a badly running engine? I would never have dreamt of such details! Thnks a lot Oleg and team!!! Merry Xmas to everybody!:) Schallmoser |
Nice update, thanks Oleg and Co.!!! :D
The exhaust effects look really nice.. But I am wondering if it will be like this all the time or only if the engine is not running at the good fuel mix or when missfiring? I think an engine running well should not emit that much visible flames during day light.. no? The night flashes look really great! :) |
Awesome the effects look a lot better, thanks oleg.
We really need a video to see this. |
I'm not really technical enough to comment, so I'll just say thanks for all your efforts, it certainly looks like SoW will be a winner.
I hope you are going to take some time off over Christmas to relax. |
For me it looks good now!
|
in the Bf 110 picture, the fire look the best.
hope for a video :) |
Interesting. How does the flame color change? Which are the parameters? Random? Height? Mixture / throttle? Age of the motor?
Ins |
Very nice Oleg. So, the engines smoke if the mixture is too rich, and the flames burn bluer if too lean. Brilliant!!
PPanPan |
Could we see a video of the smoke coming from the stacks.
Please, pretty please. |
Very nice!
But still a bit too bright for daylight. How far will these be visible at night? |
The exhaust looks real nice, maybe just a little on the bright side... -> IMHO <- :)
Mr. Maddox, is this final? http://img257.imageshack.us/img257/3...linesbasin.jpg Basin is from after WWII |
Thank you Oleg.
|
Oleg,
Very nice. Now how about posting the video version with sound? :!: |
Looking good Oleg and team!
My favorite is the all blue flame Hurricane,the 3rd pic. Just a really subtle effect I love it! I'm glad to see it looks like they took out the bright yellow reflections of the flames on the fuselage. It looks more within all the videos that were posted this past week. This will defintely look best in motion. |
Quote:
Thanks for your good efforts on the exhaust flames but..... will there be a Nightfighter Hurricane with exhaust shields? Much of the late BoB/Blitz was conducted at night. |
Really nice Oleg! Cheers to you and your team for all the effort, now just give us a release date and I'll be even happier :grin:
|
Quote:
|
Impressive, I think I will begin to wait for this game soon.
|
...THIS update is the absolute WOW! moment so far!
To me at least! Great stuff :o ! |
Thank you for yet another update. Few questions:
Is this smoke coming from the exhaust because the rapid/sudden throttle changes? If so, massive thumbs up! :) Am I right in presuming that various exhaust colors shown here are dependent on the mixture settings (together with RPM of course)? Glad you removed the overdone reflections on the fuselage. EDIT: Doh! I just spotted the 'speedbar' in the lower left parts of the screenshots. |
The 110 is looking incredible good. The exhaust flames are looking very realistic!
|
Quote:
Shots 1-3 showing the pitch, throttle and mixture settings relative to the exhaust flame are really informative. It's interesting to note that in shot 4, the mixture is at 125%, producing bright yellow flame. Are the shots of the 109 and 110 also due to incorrect mixture settings? Thanks Again! P.S. I eat humble pie |
Very nice ! Again, thanks a lot for your work !
I'm not an expert so will avoid to say too much about it, but 2 things : 1) I believe there was a bit less yelow on the videos posted, but i know it depends on what exactly are the conditions, so i say this just for the generality. 2) On your screens, most of situations aren't really in the dark. Will it be such as visible in these daylights ? Is it normal ? And 2 other things, please : 1) Could you post a vid in diferent lighting conditions ? (for instance 1 in the night, 1 in the dark, and 1 in the daylight..) And could you explain us how much you'll try to modelize the different technical parameters for that ? (as said above) 2) I know it's off-topic, but, please, could you tell us if the maps will stay based on the modern ones ? It's something very important for a lot of us, and if there is no hope to get some historical maps, we would like to know... Great work, you and co are the best of the best, still and .. for ever ? ;-) |
thank you! It looks amazing! I saw a mod that did similar effects in Sturmovik 1946, was it possible?
have a nice weekend |
Oleg, it all looks nice, but the best way to judge it would be to see a video in action.
SJ |
wow that is looking really good!
|
Quote:
A-W-E-S-O-M-E! Love the aircraft textures too! The Ju-88 canopy looks real. Sometimes it's just difficult to imagine the reality running in front of my face on the monitor. SOW looks more like a movie than something I can actually interact with! S! Gunny |
Oleg, the amount of detail you put into your work is amazing.
The fact that you listen and take community feedback seriously just makes things even better. I have the money ready when you are ready, Oleg. :cool: |
110s are awesome...great shot! :rolleyes:
|
Great stuff! I'm not even close to knowing enough to make any other comment on the exhaust flames but I have to say that the landscape in the shots looks bloomin luverly :)
|
Superb WIP :) Merry Christmas to the Maddox family and to the 1C team.
|
Good job !
|
You guys made those flames fast! and they look great :D.
Also very nice textures and everything. |
Ta very much, its the little things that make you go 'wow' more
|
Looking great!
I'll echo this cautiously: Quote:
But I'm sure that's not the case, and we're just seeing the range of color you might occasionally see when conditions are right. It should be very subtle if not invisible in direct sun? Great to see forum feedback being used in this way, thanks Oleg! :) Cheers, Spinner |
Ah, previous thread pays off, nice...
I still think the flames should be less visible during daytime but hey, that's just a humble opinion from holland. I was also wondering: will we see heat haze from flames? (obvious question that might have been asked... if so, sorry for asking again) :mrgreen: Ok, thanks Team at 1C!! |
Flames are Oleg's favorite subject. Remember all the muzzle flash discussions in ORR? :D
http://www.militarydesktop.com/data/...leship%202.jpg |
Nice, looking really good!
|
Loving the look of this now each week.. Great stuff!
|
Looking niiiiiiiiiiiiiiiice. :) Maybe too bright during the day, but that's tweakable I'm sure.
|
What amazes me is how excited people are over exhaust flames that they will almost never see when they are in the cockpit. Only time you see these is if there is a plane next to you starting up or if you fly in third person view.
|
http://forum.1cpublishing.eu/attachm...0&d=1292598248
Oleg, I think that if you could reshape the flame textures into a streaky fashion instead of circular, that might help improving realism. Don't forget that these flames come out at high pressure from a tiny exhaust and get straight into the airflow, so they don't really get much chance to look like a fireball! It's incredible how things look better with the right texture! |
Quote:
|
What great work I never would have guessed you could get two colours in the flames like that. But...I think the day time flames need to be toned down. I've never seen flames coming out of a 109 like that in the day time.
Two 109s take off under full power in the day time with no flames visible http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z71gYnaGyb8 |
OK Oleg, it looks stunning... The time budget to spend on exhaust flames is now depleted - move on ;)
|
Great attention to detail. And makes reading last week's update thread again an interesting experience :-P Smoke trails caused by certain engine actions is also a nice feature beyond pure eye candy - will be interesting to see to what degree the AI will also abuse the engine from time to time (maybe based on skill level).
And that 110 sure is a beauty - can't wait to get my hands on it... So thanks for another very nice update! |
Excellent example of how nicely things are progressing with regards to community interaction. It just goes to show that if we can self-moderate ourselves a little bit, there's a lot of feedback to be provided and it's definitely not going to waste. This is a clear example that the developers LISTEN and do their best to please as many people as possible.
Awesome update ;) Quote:
In some of the pics with German aircraft we can see that the prop and/or mixture parameters are blank (only throttle is diplayed for the Ju88, while mixture is not displayed for the 110), since they probably have automatic systems to manage those. What really got my eye however is the 109 picture which displays the numbers for all three parameters (mixture, prop and throttle), something that probably indicates its one of the early models that didn't have the automatic engine management systems. The only thing i could say is that it looks a bit too bright. However, these are stills captured with the sole puprose of showing off the flames, so i am inclined to believe that they are either looking brighter on purpose to make the details of each effect easily visible, or that they were snapped with a track running at 1/4 speed, pausing on the frame that the effect is most pronounced and snapping the picture. In motion it might look totally different, for all i know it would probably be alternating between flame and no flame depending on which cylinder is firing at the time, with time between changes depending on the amount of RPM the engine is running at, just like we saw in last week's videos. Finally, if abrupt throttle changes produce black smoke from unburnt fuel, it will be awesome to help us judge if we are spotted. Say you are bouncing another aircraft and you suddenly see a brief trail of black smoke, you instantly know that he's going full throttle so he's probably seen you and will take evasive action. And since the importance of the details we're seeing in this update has been questioned a few posts back, let me say that it's things like that which excite people about the little details. It's not the details per se, but what these details can tell you about the aircraft. A knowledgeable person will be able to deduce certain things about what an aircraft is doing, just by looking for the right signs. This can be used to get better performance out of your plane, or to judge the potential performance and actions of the enemy one ;) |
The most interesting part is not the effect at all. The significance of these changes in exhaust if a symptom of engine management - that will put much more workload onto the pilot if he is to get the best from his machine. No more sudden, abusive, violent moves to escape .50cals - it should be like the guncam footage we see where the aircraft being struck doesn't seem to react like we regularly see in IL2. Responses and awareness should plummet :)
Oleg, are you going to answer any of the questions from the thread 2 weeks ago regarding the FMB?? |
in game , perhaps some of these flames are visible only when slowmotion ?
|
The exhaust flames look perfect to me - if I had to say one thing, they may be too bright/visible during the day-time, but Black-Dog has addressed this too. It's nice to see that on the Bf-109, the flames are not lighting up the side of the fuselage as they were with the Spitfire last week.
I'm sure you guys will sort everything out nicely. Thanks for the update Oleg & Co. |
Quote:
|
Quote:
Stuff like individual cylinder modeling coupled with different exhaust (flames and smoke) dependent on the mixture, RPM and other factors - puts SoW into totally different category. And not even mentioning overall impacts this will have on dogfighting... :cool: |
Hello Oleg!
Nice job as always...I still would like to mention something, like in image 7: one can imagine a mix of blue and yellow in flight, with yellow on the exhaust side but it would be only in a brutal transition in mixture adjustment from OK or poor to over rich...and you really would have to push your throttle very violently to its stop, and even then, on a fuel injected 109, I do not believe it would happen... So my idea if you would like to keep it simple would be to have three flight exhaust flame states: 1) normal/poor mixture: blue regular sized flame, and - if possible, one day! - whitish exhaust strain on paint (sure sign you are running generally too poor) 2) over rich: blue on exhaust side, with yellow end regular sized flame (the opposite of the 109 image in terms of color order), brown exhaust strain 3) much too rich: yellow flames a bit irregular, occasional misfires, again if possible, blackish exhaust strain on paint (no less sure sign you are running generally too rich) and at startup, in a random way or on record of overprime if existing, big flames, before normal functioning. Generally no mix of blue and yellow if yellow is on exhaut side: physically difficult to imgine in a steady state... I would like to apologize in advance if this comment still resembles nitpicking! JV |
Noticing that most of the pictures seem to have been taken at dusk (or dawn), to make the flames more visible in the screenshots? Perhaps in full daylight it's more difficult to see them? The bf-109 shots are taken in full daylight however, and are equally "bright"...
Just noticed that there seem to be two options to display engine control status: by percentage and by graphical representation of control position (in the three first hurri shots)... interesting. |
Hi Oleg.
I just loaded my cd up and I can't see any flames here and listen to Dave Southwood about always flying on maximum power settings. Thanks http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=48uziQoniI0 |
Quote:
|
this game must be the most datailed game ever created! i can't wait for this game to be released! you doing a great job Oleg and thanx for the pictures
|
So far deleted 22 postings for off topic.
It doesn't make sense to me, that so many want more severe moderation and then we have this. Posters need to read the starter posting to determine the topic. Whiners and complainers, release date questions are definitely Off topic. |
So far deleted many postings for off topic.
It doesn't make sense to me, that so many want more severe moderation and then we have this. Posters need to read the starter posting to determine the topic. Whiners and complainers, release date questions are definitely Off topic. |
Now that I see the sliders down in the left hand corner does that mean that this is all player manageable? If that's the case then we could all do what we want with it.
|
Wow, those exhaust flames look great!
|
The flames look great. I remember reading quite a bit about how they would be very visible at dusk and in the dark and this seems to match up perfectly. Right on!
|
I was In former east German where i witnesed a 109 G take of from reinsdorf airfield
when it did i was aprox 50 meters from liftoff point. I've got to report that no exhaust flame was visible. I also witnessed it from about 100 m in midair from my glider, wich because of the design of the hood has real good visibility, again i din't observe an smoke or exhaust flame. The project seems to be comming along verry nice and i oe to b not to far off topic when I ask if there is a possibility to see some of the cloud formations beiing used in the sim. Regards, Niels |
Quote:
Let's hope the SoW 109 handles exactly like described so us allied can have a chuckle as you luftlads who don't manage a 3 pointer end up smacking into the control tower lol |
Quote:
|
Quote:
The most interesting part about the video for me was the comparison how inverted V12 is much quieter than the normal positioned V12 engines... |
Quote:
Off-topics are something everyone should easily understand, so I think you're doing a fine job, Nearmiss. Let the theme of each update be set by Oleg and followed by all...there are many other places where other topics can be discussed. These 'imporvements' make for a much easier and useful thread IMO. Well done, everyone! |
Quote:
|
Great looking effects Oleg, well done. Really appreciate you removing those big night time reflections we saw last week too...a great improvement thanks.:grin:
I too would like to see the day time effects toned down a bit if possible please. Would also be nice if some kind person could post a video of an aero engine running rich with those yellow flames (after startup that is). The 109 and 110 look so good! Really quite stunning. Landscape colours look very nice too. Appreciate the update as always. |
Good feedback
Thanks Oleg,
It is very good to see you quickly implementing the forum members feedback into the flight sim, it makes us all feel a strong part of everything you are doing. The exhaust flames look really good, day and night and will add immensely to the realism of the sim. DFLion |
Looking good!...thanks:grin:
|
Looking good...blah, blah, blah.
|
Excellent work!
I'm guessing that the daytime pics show the flames after heavy or abrupt usage of the throttle and the effects of rich mixture? It must be quite difficult to come up with a way to make these flames visible at night or under heavy throttle changes but invisible when they should be. Impressive attention to detail. |
Pilots still look a little small to me ...but am I just used to sizes in IL-2?
|
I really hope the development of exhaust flames has no influence to the publishing date.
I mean, if we're discussing things like exhaust flames - everything else must be finished, right? Can I please buy the game? |
It would be very interesting to see a side by side comparison of a new fresh engine running next to a old, tired, badly maintained engine, to see if there are any differences modelled.
Cheers and thanks for the update! Quote:
|
Hi Oleg,
Awesome looking work. The only thing that matches your attention to detail is your willingness to engage the community for discussion and feedback when required. Kudos and I hope you take a few days off over Xmas/New Year, Flying Nutcase |
Quote:
I thought I'd never see those words mentioned on an Il-2 forum again. Please put an option for tube-shooters in SoW. |
very niiice!
it seems to me that the pilots look really small compared to the aircrafts, especially in the 109! |
awesome Oleg brilliant work.
|
looks pretty real to me....did you use real film footage to see what the exhaust does in real flight..?? I like the smoke effect in the last 2 pics...this is truely going to be a 1st rate flight simulation.......XR-A
|
Thanks for the pics, the update is excellent! I've noticed that the propellor blades are not visible in the first set of pictures with the Hurricane (aside from pic #2). In the second set, the propellors look more like those of IL-2. Is this a selectable effect? If so, it could be very handy for old-photo-style screenshots (it would also answer my question from last week's thread).
Cheers and thanks, Fafnir_6 |
here a small Video from "Brutus" a special car with a Airplane engine and nice flames
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2pcRRk0msas |
The first picture in Oleg's second post shows throttle, prop, and comp (compression I assume?).
If I am right: I am guessing that the readouts shown are selectable to some extent. IE. you can pick what you want the read out to be. I wonder if the number of readouts will be limited to three at a time. If "comp" is manifold pressure, this points once again to truly complex engine management! Since there is no value for "comp" in the picture, I am wondering what units will be used (or will it be some sort of percentage based on throttle and mix?). OR....maybe I am wrong about what "comp" in the picture actually stands for. Exhaust Flames: I think every other person on this board cares more about it than I do lol. They look good and I sort of look forward to trying to use the colors to figure out just how my engine is running. Splitter |
That Emil looks sooooooooo sweet.
. |
Quote:
They look better on fire :twisted: |
Quote:
Sorry for OT. |
Dear Oleg,
The pictures look gorgeous. We miss anyway a word from you on the status of the development, something like "bugs are almost eliminated", or " we see a very close release", or "the publisher will be announced before Christmas" etc. etc. Tell us something, please. Cheers, Insuber |
S!
Nice pics. I would agree that the exhaust flames are more or less visible mostly at low light conditions, not in broad daylight so clearly, if at all. The DB-engines had direct fuel injection so you really could not adjust the mixture on it. Only adjustable was propellor in case of the automatic failed. Early Bf109's had manual pitch, E-4 and onwards had the automatic with manual as backup(rocker switch on throttle). Sure the Spitfire or Hurricane is louder as you sit behind the exhaust stacks. In Bf109 they are way lower thus a bit less noise. The Bf110 looks gorgeous, can't wait to fly her! The handling qualities of the Bf109 on the other hand are partially a myth and partially true. If the pilot knows what he is doing it is not any harder to land or take-off in it. Any plane of that era with the big engines were a handful to handle ;) Have a nice weekend! |
Quote:
Pretty 'Flamey', probably not a good reference. I love the smell of 5 star in the morning, just not on my meat. |
Quote:
COMP - if MP is for Manifold Pressure, what does CO stand for? I hardly believe that pilots could manipulate Manifold vacuum (or engine vacuum) other by different throttle settings. Quote:
|
I dont understand why soo much wondering about exsaust...
Once I drived my litle Fiat 126 to repair, without exaust and with last seat bank cuted out, so workman can repair it without bringing engine out of car. (engine is back). Whan I started it, imagine the noise inside car :), it wos nice :), but whan I started to ride and give more power-15-30 cm flames came out from engine, I wos afraid to fire up car :) So why wondering to se flames? Engine is explosion device, will you see it depends on 100 other things, I believe Oleg & Team will make it good as possible! Also, we need some new kids who will buy this sim and play it as a game, some extra flame highlights are for sure welcome... |
In the first three pics of the Hurrican you get a better idea of what is happening if you click next in quick succession so you get a fast slide show. You can see the engine is way over rich, perhaps with the throttle closed and as the throttle is opened the incorrectly burning gas is blown away and turns blue. Try it.
On a slightly different tack I think the landscape is looking excellent with field sizes and shapes and crop textures looking very 1940ish. No houses sitting in fields either and who can complain about colours? Brilliant Oleg. |
Quote:
So no, engine is not an explosion device. Judging on how your exhaust flames look you can adjust your mixture (especially important with altitude, as you climb higher). And the most important part (which will drastically change dogfighting as others already stated) are puffs of smoke accompanied with throttle changes. IL2 already had simplified effect caused by this. Thus, since SoW represents the way forward - it is logical to presume we will have much more detailed engine physics modeled. |
Thor, in many languages, "explosion engine" is a slightly old-fashioned way of saying internal cumbustion engine, that - I'm sure - is what Adriatic is saying.
|
I admit, I never heard of this expression. Adriatic and I are both from the same country - and I do not know of such (or equivalent to it) expression in my language.
Even so, the fuel inside an engine does not explode. And this is what I was trying to explain. Fuel burning inside a cylinder is a complex process determined by many factors such as cylinder/piston head shape, compression ratio (volume between top of the cylinder to TDC, and top of the cylinder to BDC), number of strokes (2T/4T), position and number of valves (or valves and fuel injectors), intake and exhaust manifold, RPM, fuel - and many many other factors... EDIT: Call it a professional defect, but I had to reply. :) |
Quote:
|
Some people complain about the visibility of the flames, but there aren't any flames visible from the second Bf 110 in picture 10.
Are those flames only visible from very close in daylight? |
All times are GMT. The time now is 07:43 PM. |
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2025, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright © 2007 Fulqrum Publishing. All rights reserved.