More severe moderation in update threads?
 

The title speaks for itself. Should the moderators show more presence and intervene more in the weekly update threads, yes or no?

YES!!!
I see a lot of nonsense and crap comming from the same people all the time. Over and over and over again the same people just mess every updates thread.

"Oh this looks crappy,...this was done in X game ten years ago,...it sucks, I want this, I want that"......and so on.
Every friday the same crap from the same people. :roll:

The present work of moderators is just fine, period.

If you ask the moderators to do your thinking for you why not just let them post the replies to Oleg’s posts for you. This way all we need to do is read, no need to think for our selves or have our own opinions.

It’s all good …

+1
Must drive Oleg mad having to trawl through 20 pages of rubbish just to find a legitimate question to answer!

Definately more intervention. Never mind driving Oleg mad - it drives me mad having to wade through all the drivel.

RedToo.

+1

:) What we need is an easy to access,easy to understand question and answer ONLY thread where no other replies are allowed to be posted,a read only thread,locked .
Any questions that need to be added could be added in another thread and once again NO DISCUSSION just the question and as it is answered it gets moved into the other thread described above.
A question for Oleg and team to answer needs no discussion as we can't answer them anyway.
Failing that we carry on as it is ,first 10 pages or so Oleg chips in but then it degenerates into personality v personality slanging match.
I personally think the moderators should be alot stricter and cull the threads HARD and ruthlessly.

I made several requests for more moderation months ago.

Definitely! Do it for Oleg's sake if not for the rest of us. Imagine having to read all that rubbish every time you make the effort to show what you have created.
Maybe a period of zero tolerance to bring some of the worst people back onto a more civilised footing.

I think that the moderation level in this forum is about right. There are only 2 or 3 member's who are abusing the system, and spaming the up-date thread with junk each week...we should turn the table on them, by spaming their PM folder with request to cease and desist.:-P

+1

There's also the 'report post' button to make the moderators job easier.

Personally, I find 'Great Update!', 'Fantastic!' 'Thanks Oleg!' or even 'First!' or 'Damn, Second!' just as tedious as the personal attacks between members that inevitably crop up. I wouldn't dream of stopping them though, as they are at least positive and supportive.

If we can't be bothered trawling through posts to find something interesting/informative, lets do something else, such as fly a flight sim.
A good one, such as IL2 Sturmovik.

Repeat offenders should have text inserted by moderators beneath their avatars. "Resorts to personal attacks" "Unable to grasp WiP concept" and "Thread hijacker" to name but a few.

I'm not sure if we need to be more severely moderated, but we should certainly have more severe moderation. :)

I think now Its ok.

+2

I've basically stopped reading update threads. Nowadays I just click Oleg's name and choose "Show all posts by Oleg Maddox".

Well the 'Thanks Oleg' etc posts are positive, and I think they're worth posting, as I'm sure the developers like the fact that their work is appreciated (imagine if no one posted a thing, like we didn't give a stuff about the update). But people posting 'First!', 'Damn, Second' - what's that all about? I'd rather the mods just removed the post altogether.

I agree with what Oleg said last week;
ask questions, supply answers if possible, give links if neccesary, be humble....something to that effect.
Surely that is all that is needed? ;)

If I did dream of stopping any posts, it would be all of the above without exception.

I actually voted the current moderation right, because I think it is, and I wouldn't want to see anything changed.

The elimination of the "this bit might be a bit wrong, perhaps?" posts to concentrate on the butt-kissing ones would entirely remove the point of the update threads for me.

Igo, I agree. Also, the majority of posts where users raise their concerns or post their own opinions are still very much applausing Oleg and co's work.
Normally it's along the lines of:
"excellent update, Oleg. I love the lighting in shot_ and the planes really do look photographic.
I was wondering___"

;)

Nobody is against that kind of imput. We are talking about this kind of imput:


All this and a storm of stupid questions is coming from only one guy. And there are two maybe three others. Every friday is the same. This is crap, that is crap, i want this, i want that, you promised this.....

This is not constructive criticism. This are mostly insults. I'd be pissed to get this kind of stuff every week, for something I worked on for five years. Specially coming from some sixteen year old kid.

just keep adding the idiots to your ignore list ,easy solution.

Unless evidence is giving on members saying such things, surely your post is just as de-constructive and, thus, hypocritical? What's the saying: all talk, no action?
I mean I agree that such things are just rude, but I can't recall one member saying all that! I think it all get's spread across the board like marmite. That's metaphorical, and ambiguous, if you get my drift ;)

I think we should put the past behind us and focus on the future. If the same thing happens, then-yes-we have reason to get annoyed.

Qpassa - this is truly not against you personally but your reply is simple, to the point, and represents the view of several others so I picked up on it and I just want to say IMHO that view is incorrect.

The Friday before last I ploughed through 90 pages - NINETY! - to see if my question had been answered.

That is NOT now "OK". It's ridiculous. Its is supposed to be informative, questioning, with responses from Oleg but not a platform for irrelevant posts or egotistical p*nis waving. It needs to be kept to the point. If I were only skimming through just looking at the odd opinions it would not hurt as I could skip what I like but if I have to get past every single post to find an answer it's a frustrating pain in the a$$ especially when you see so much taken up with juvenile tit for tat trash. It also makes it hard for Oleg to even find our questions.

It makes Oleg's attempts to keep us informed almost worthless.

I've been discussing this with others in another thread and truthfully I don't know the answer unless Oleg is willing to lock his thread and post his answers there to questions raised in a parallel thread. We'll still get the lunies who want to see their name up in lights but at least the update thread will be clean - if Oleg can find our questions among the other mire.

And some of them will be laughing at us for the trouble they are able to cause.

The only other way I can think of to reduce this nonsense is to set these guys to 'Ignore' (if I can find out how to do it). They can then feed their egos as much as they like and I won't see it. At least then people will know that if they want to be heard - sensibly - they need to stay away from the kind of post we don't want to see or they won't be heard at all. Of course we could all just filter on Oleg's answers but it would be nice to remove a lot of the unnecessary garbage. Providing Oleg can find our questions in there.

Sorry for the lengthy sermon.

Here's the evidence:

http://forum.1cpublishing.eu/search....archid=1428865

All the quotes posted above can be found there, in the exact same format. If you go read through that link you'll also see the constant "give me this, i want that", over and over again coming from the same guy.

The link doesn't work...

Indeed! Moderators please flush the drivel.

For some reason only works when i'm logged with my user ID.

Ok anywhay, go to the last updates thread, go to the top of page#7, click on the user"Hecke" and then "find all posts bye Hecke"

You'll find everything there.


Let me try this link:

http://forum.1cpublishing.eu/search....nduser&u=19984


PS. I think this one works.

OK, I can see now.

It's a mixed bag. I think Hecke has a poor way of getting his point across. In some cases I have agreed with him, but he's just not constructive enough in his posts. I hope he sees this, as all he needs to do is change his attitude and not be so rude.

I think that's a fair analysis. ;)

Anyway, blue skies. let's see what the next update brings...(if we get one) ;)

You would do well to remember that yourself. Not that you haven't posted good factual information (because you have), but a lot of the time I feel like I'm reading a stream of consciousness novel in your posts.

Noted, thanks. I do agree; reading through some of my posts, I did go red in the face. (I'm not being sarcastic here; it's embarassing for me to have to say this, too)

On balance, I believe that mods are doing a good job, and an uneasy one. A free forum can remain free only if all of us use tolerance. Only blatant insults and violations of forum rules should be deleted, and this is what mods are doing routinely, it seems to me.
If some guy really annoys me, I stop reading him, and I’m sure Oleg does the same.
My choice is number three: “just fine”.

In my opinion this gone for way too long. If your dog bites you once you forget and put it behind. You'll most likely forgive second time too. But if it bites you and everyone else every week, you put it to sleep. Is that simple.

An interesting analysis, and scarily down to earth when put like that! :grin:

I still think we should wait for the next update. The only thing is, just because the next update is devoid of argument doesn't mean the next one won't be....etc oh well.

your over posting here too 25% of replys :grin:

Why didn't you just search through Oleg's posts?

Remember...

This is a company forums. 1C develops and distributes products that people actually buy. The purpose of this forums is to promote and provide some support for 1C games.

Many posters are teenagers. Teenagers aren't very adroit communicators. It is very easy for them to sidetrack, and move off topic.

Oleg is very patient, sorting through the junk postings. We all know he makes timely postings about issues he is interested to share. Usually the update threads are pretty well exhausted after the first couple days, but Oleg or Luthier do post on later days when a posting tweaks their interest.

Several times we have tried to deal with troublesome posters. The only thing misguided posters seem to respect is BAN. Banning members really makes them mad, because for the most part these members don't really connect with the reason for the ban.

Best course of action is to report postings, or send a PM to moderator. Specifically identify the troublesome member and posting of concern. Every PM we get is dealt with and frequently a troublesome member is banned temporarily or permanently.

First time poster.
 

This is my first post here though I've been following Il2 (and now SoW) since being hooked by the original demo back in the stone age when pentiums ruled the earth.

I've been avidly following the progress of our new great sim since it was announced but, before now, I've never felt the need to comment since, whenever I pondered some interesting question I might ask, someone else generally went ahead and asked it for me (maybe I'm just slow).

Now, however, I feel a bit left out as this hearty debate progresses so I thought I'd add my own observations to the fray:

Over the last few weeks I've found myself wincing every now and then at the occasional crass statement or question directed at Oleg, but I've generally reassured myself that Oleg himself (who is after all grown-up) recognises idiocy when he sees it and doesn't take it too personally. I'm sure he gets annoyed, as most of us would, but I doubt anyone as capable and confident in his professional abilities as Oleg clearly is, is going to take it to heart.

In addition, I've never felt those crass statements or questions were intended to be malicious in any way (obvious trolls aside), so for my part (and mine alone), I don't have too much of a problem with ill-considered posts directed at the devs or the game itself. I've actually done a few ill-considered things in my own life and I don't have it in me to censure it in others where I find no malice behind it (or if I do I keep it to myself).

And anyway, I haven't done a comparative post count as such but I don't believe it is these inconsequential blatherings that fill up these threads to such herculanean proportions... it is the responses to them - and the responses to the responses.

In the end, it is the rage and insults spent in pursuit of the 'wicked' that leaves me with the occasional bad feeling when I read these threads. I honestly don't believe you can legislate against idiocy, since all of us are guilty at one time or another and at the same time no one is irredeemable. Manners, and respect, however, should be something we are all capable of. Oleg made a statement recently calling for patience. I took to this to mean something akin to tolerance for one another but I may be wrong.

So can't we all just try a little respect and a little more humility.

Anyway, that's my first post (there are probably too many brackets, but I like brackets) and I'm off to bed - it's a cold night in blighty.

Praise the Oleg and pass the ammunition.

You need to post more often.....

Splitter

I agree with you, but when you have only maybe two same guys being responsible for all this, it should be a lot easier to just ban this usual suspects and spare Oleg and the whole community of all this drama.
We and Oleg don't owe nothing to this two three guys to have to put up with this every week.
Remember, the game is not out yet, they didn't pay a cent yet, so why should all the rest have to be hostage to them? We have to put up with people like this in real life all the time, because they are customers, contractors, employees, boses and sometimes familly members. We come here for fun in our spare time. We don't have to put up with this.

Hear Hear! Well stated, YellowPaw!

As I was reading these posts, I was formulating a reply when I came to yours and discovered that you have already stated my thoughts (and probably the thoughts of many others) on this matter.

So I will just reiterate the point that Oleg made and that you drew attention to. Polite, respectful forum protocol...something that everyone should be capable of. This is the one aspect that, when ignored, I think deserves severe and swift moderation

Unless the rules governing the posting of questions and opinions in the 'Update' forum are spelled out very carefully to restrict the kind of postings made, then stopping those kinds of comments is a form of censorship that really defeats the purpose of discussion. And that's why I say that the rules governing the posts would have to change and be spelled out very carefully so as to be very restrictive, and, would likely eliminate meaningful discussions .

As it stands, I wouldn't want to see anyone prohibited from asking questions, stating opinions, or entering into POLITE discussions and debates. I can handle all that and I readily filter Oleg's comments when I need to. I am still of the opinion that there is no such thing as a 'stupid question', (probably because I can be guilty of many examples of them), although sometimes a question is ill-timed or not well thought out beforehand...a minor annoyance, not a major crime.

But the denigration of others should not be tolerated, and there are many forums where it's not. I believe that was the aspect that concerned Oleg and the reason he addressed us with his comment.

I don't care. This forum sucks and you're all gonna die.

You see,this is just the sort of thing that could get a ban.The poster might think he is being funny,but humour does not always travel well on the net,with lots of people from different countries.

Don't take the baron serious he's older than dirt and twice as ugly.

We'll someone had to break up the civility of this thread, it's actually making me wretch a little. :)

Seriously though, WTG guys. Like I said before, we need to moderate ourselves first, and it looks like that's happening here. If we can get that spirit moved over to the update thread tomorrow we'll be all good.

@ Splitter - Thanks for the comment - I would like to post more often but I'm not sure I have too much to offer. I'm reasonably well-educated about WW2 and its aircraft but no where near the walking encyclopaedias that frequent this forum:-) - I come here to read, to be honest, and I hugely enjoy it! Though I do feel the odd question rearing its head as SoW nears completion.;)

Actually, I think in supporting my comment, you have rather surpassed it. :-) - Very clearly stated. Damn.

Often troublesome members and their postings are deleted and no one even knows of it.

I think we all agree there should be some latitude or allowances made in postings, if the poster doesn't go too far.

But what is exactly what are you looking for to people to say in Updates threads???

There are a lot of stupid question in those threads, but there are lot of good ones too, so moderators can't keep deleting or warning people just cause some
of the senior members doesn't like their questions.

Have you ever realized that the main problems in forum or chats is the lack of
expresion in the letters, you can try to say something in a funny way but can
be missunderstood by other and end up in something bad.

I suffer that in one of the updates talking about the effects, i sated that were wrong and doesn't look right and then fans flame me for that, then i don't remember who, but one from oleg team said that they hated those effects more than anybody else and were just wip. the main point in this
is in an update thread all the forum users will not think the same and you
should not filter that, let everybody express them selves and then take
what it worth for you.

I remember another time that somebody asked when was the first time
that this sim was anounced, i answered the question, and i recive a PM from
nearmiss that answering that i was insulting oleg.

Lads please let the fellas out there really say what they really think, nice or
not it will help to improve the project, developer doesn't need lamers fro their
good, need compliments and complains.

Regards

Potenz.

+10 Buen post!
We must moderate ourselves before posting. And it´s so easy to recognize a troll when you read a forum, so it s simple.

The problem with the up-date thread as I see it, is that a question/complaint to Oleg, becomes a debate between members. I would like to see questions/complaints (and questions/complaints only) offered to Oleg, if he answer fine, if not then he doesn't want to answer. No need for other members to try and answer for him, or to criticize the question...in short only questions/complaints should be posted, with no follow up by other members (I have been guilty of this), and that includes "thanks for answering Oleg", which are not needed, and only add to the clutter.:grin:

Actually i'm going to agree with you guys, it seems we're getting somewhere.

Potenz makes some good points, as well as Yellopaw and Jimko. Ironically enough, in the end it seems it's our inability to not feed the trolls that starts the downward spiral of "forum dueling".

Reminds me of something i read by a poster in SimHQ once: "The forum is a place where real-time virtual pilots come to play turn-based verbal combat" :-P

Because at the time I didn't realise I could - it's not in the help pages. If you read the whole of my post you'll see I mention doing that.

The poll seems to indicate that something needs to be done but I'll just search Oleg's answers.

Agreed!

...and he's also on my Ignore list, because he can never find it in himself to post anything civil.

There should be two links in each update thread, the update itself then being locked after Oleg has posted his update..

1st link: contains Oleg's statements, questions made directly to Oleg, and Oleg's replies. This is a pure update link.

2nd link: A discussion of the update, and comments made about questions made to Oleg, and any post made in the first link which is not a direct question or suggestion to Oleg - they should be moved here. This is a discussion link.

I believe the moderation of update threads is woeful.

Can't understand why ban hammer is not being used.

Anyone posting anything controversial that is unrelated to the screenshots should get a week ban instantly, and anyone responding should get a one month ban. How hard is it?

Maybe I'm just a bit too old, but isn't "more severe moderation" an oxymoron? (Or, worse yet, a political position?)

Maybe just bad english. Apologies for that.

My feelings are that we should be allowed to discuss all things aviation wise.

Some of the subjective stuff (colours, landscape, smoke etc) is ok but ultimately down to personal preference.

Posts which use one screen shot to highlight a 'problem (when there are several other shots that dont) should be deleted.

Political debates such as the Poland discussion in the current update thread have no real place in a thread to do with development updates.

Overall I'm quite happy with the moderation although I have seen some very petty/childish posts from at least one of the moderators in the past.

Ulitmately it's down to the poster to self censor and to consider what effect what they have to say will have on the thread. Plenty of times I've written out a 'you're wrong' post and then not pressed submit because it would have just kicked off.

Definitely more strictly moderated. Repeat offenders should be banned as written down in the forum rules.

free speaking forums should not be restricted to what you can and cant talk about, I'm sure Oleg knows how to cut through the crap, some of it's funny, let it be

That's a conflation of/pun on two different meanings of "moderation" I believe.

if you get annoyed by the chaff on those threads...don't read them....personally i only checkout Olegs posts then i'm done....it seems pointless reading the rest as its 80% crap.

yes thats my opinion someone else will say 30% another 50%...my point is its un-workable....there is a lot of dribble put on this forum...reason being everyone is waiting for bob...point incase the "lets fund C1 development" thread. some people just have nothing better to do with their time.

Have you tried to wade through some of the crap people post week after week, in an effort to find meaningful discussion about the topic at hand? It's ridiculous.

And no, it's not "free-speaking." It's a privately-run board. "Free speech" doesn't apply here.

...


Remembrance !

http://users.teledisnet.be/web/mfe39146/Freedom.jpg


...

Oh for gods sake man , give it a rest , your narrow minded , im gonna read you your rights attitude is getting real boaring, grow up.

I totally agree.

I actually was shocked to learn that there even were moderators here. The standards here are so low, and moderation so pitifully ineffective that the overwhelming impression is one of anything-goes, or moderation by non English speaking Russian technical support.

Well now just think....if moderation was the way you wanted it on this board, you would now be banned lol. C'mon, isn't "pitiful" rather harsh?!

Things aren't all that bad. The latest update thread has been civil.

I would much rather put up with the occasional "punk" than "drunk with power" moderators. I've seen both on various internet board and the ones that go downhill fastest are the ones where the mods take over.

Splitter

I agree completely Winny, even though I was one of the guilty parties.
I posted to calm things down before it turned into a slanging match, which seemed to work ok.

Just to be clear, this is about the update thread only..

I just think it's disrespectful to OM/1C

I have no problem with ya'll shouting at each other elsewhere.

Your spelling sucks, your grammar is horrible, and you're now on my Ignore list. Have a nice day. :D

Oh thank god...prat.

Seen that too.

I one occasion it tore a already small community apart, resulting in three factions.

Maybe the people calling for a more severe moderation don't spend too much time on Internet boards.

One mans “crap” is another mans “meaningful discussion” …

I think this is for Oleg to decide.

I'm talking about the off-topic discussions, such as the current one about Britain's treatment of Poland. Nothing wrong with talking about that, of course, but it has no relevance to the topic at hand.

He has to wade through all of that as well. Show the man some respect by staying on topic.

well seems this thread has turned into a lot of chaff..i'm done with it.

I retract that statement in full. I just went back and had another look and my post didn't calm things down at all.
That'll teach me.:(

I'm one of the guilty parties of that discussion. Unfortunately my standards drop to that of the thread, I'd rather mods just removed all our off topic chat (in update threads), and we'd all get the message. Unfortunately I give in to the 'if you can't beat them, join them' attitude. If there's a conversation I'd like to join in on, it's tough to say 'hey everyone, come with me to chat about this elesewhere' (I did try it with one topic), and easy just to join in.

That's exactly what i would favor as well. Bans should be reserved for offences like repeat personal attacks and so on, it's too harsh for off topic remarks.

Best thing to do would be to cut the off topic posts from the update thread and move them to a separate one, opened by a moderator. Since moderators can't waste their time categorizing each off-topic discussion in its own thread but would lump everything in the same basket, we would be left with a thread that's hard to follow for our side-tracked musings. This would gradually force us to open up separate threads of our own whenever we wanted to go on a tangent.

Sad but true, causing a minor inconvenience to upset the modus operandi is the most effective means to make people drift to a different one ;)

LOL.. I might join in.

I'd rather the moderators didn't even waste that much time. Just remove our posts, no need to paste elsewhere.

Just remove postings...you say

Deletion of postings should not be required.

Most of the members on this boards are adults.

In tune with the requests on this thread. The coming update thread will be more severely enforced. No big deal, 1 week bans to members posting off topic - first offense. It will not matter if you have been a member of this board for 3 years and have a good record. OFF TOPIC IS OFF TOPIC, no warnings.

The current update thread is locked because of all the OFF TOPIC postings.

Report OFF TOPIC POSTINGS when you see them. Moderators can't read every posting 24/7.

Thanks

yes

my questions/comments rarely get answered or responded to, which is fine, but it's even more pointless when they're sandwiched in 40 pages of off-topic discussion, usually in between two posts with 5 2000x2000res pics showing the type of TP the luftwaffe wiped with.

I vote definitely for a more severe moderation of the update threads. I don't mind about people complaining or criticizing, but I cannot stand the deluge of OTs, the quarrels between the usual 2 or 3 people going on for pages and pages, and the nonsense posts of people having 1000+ posts (of mostly nonsense).

It's evident that someone posts their nonsense in the update thread only because they will get more attention there than in a dedicated nonsensical thread.

Nearmiss, I approve your decision of 1 week ban for OT posters ... go on mate (hopefully you won't mismatch again my nick with another one, posting BS ... :D).

Cheers,
Insuber

Anyone remember Olegs Ready Room on Ubi.com?

Then y'all know exactly whats a comin'.

I approve of this fully, and suggest that more severe moderation be applied elsewhere as well.

Sorry we use a flame thrower not TP :)
TP is for softie Allieds.


Just reset their post count to Zero :)



Nearmiss /and other moderators.
I dont envy you :)
Its a tough job getting the balance of it right, you want to have a flow of topics to have an interesting forum,
but not at the expense of poor quality material and subjects and upsetting others just for the sake of it.


S!

Yes please stop the offtopic nonsense!!!!

:)The voting figures say it all.I have given up reading the update threads,i just click on Olegs posts,my browsing has gone from alot of minutes to seconds.
It unfortunately does mean i miss out on the few good posts but you leave the rubbish ones alone.

ROFL, see what ya'll have done? I predict drama when some old timer gets a week ban from something questionable that someone has reported to a mod. Nearmiss will have pulled his hair out by Saturday. Sorry Nearmiss.

You have my condolences. I've done it, being a mod is a thankless job. Now because things were perceived to be too far one way, you have to swing it back hard the other. Seriously, thank you for your efforts and good luck in trying to keep everyone happy.

It reminds me of when my pitching coach used to come out to the mound to talk to me...."Don't give him anything to hit and don't walk him.". Good luck!

Splitter

YES! Can't wait for Friday. Thanks Mods.

LOL Adman & KG26 Alpha. You guys are hillarious :).

WRT the moderation of update threads, I support Nearmiss' new direction which will hopefully calm things down a bit (I find the on-topic discussion in those threads very interesting). To all those that worry about the stifling of free speech and moderator power trips, I suppose we could revisit this after a couple of weeks' worth of doing things Nearmiss' way. My gut (and the poll) tells me that the majority of us will appreciate the changes.

Cheers,

Fafnir_6

+1

Just came back to find the thread locked. What a joke, Oleg stopped posting on about page 5 - if you want to 'stay on topic' then we should get some more updates to talk about, otherwise we are just making conversation.

If the mods are that bothered then perhaps they should use the moderation tools they've been given to split and merge the threads as desired.

All the internet control freaks here would have Tim Berners-Lee shaking his head in disappointment.....

Realy good idear plus one

The previous post talks about something similar, but thought I'd repost an idea that came up a few months back:

The idea is for a second supplementary discussion thread running every week alongside the official update thread.

The official Oleg update thread would allow ONLY: our reactions to what Oleg has posted, and questions to Oleg about what we see that week.

The shadow thread would include EVERYTHING else: speculation, discussion, questions to Oleg that weren't related directly to that week's update,.

This way we all get to comment on whatever we want, but the main thread is kept clear for the developers (and the impatient) to read. Those who want to ignore all the speculative stuff can avoid it.

Reading back on that now, I can see that it could be unwieldy to implement and enforce. Maybe too restrictive? Would be great if everyone played ball, but we already know from current experience that (some) people aren't good at following instructions.

A second thread would only force Oleg to monitor and reply in each thread, time he does not have. The answer I think is for, the few members who abuse each week to ...knock it off!:grin:

Well ... also if the usual suspects do make their normal negative critical unhelpful statements, outrageous claims that rewrite history or make requests for the Kriegsmarine to be issued Dr Evil style ""frickin' sharks with frickin' laser beams attached to their frickin' heads" people really really should resist the temptation to reply and just ignore it.

If the half dozen trolls got ignored by other posters it would be relatively easy to just block them and be left with a sensible thread.

Its the REPLIES to the trolls that really clutter things up.

No, you're right, they shouldn't.

I absolutely love it, thank you! On the last couple of threads I have been one of the worst offenders of off-topic chat. This rule should mean there's no off topic chat to join in with.

It's not the mods that are that bothered, it's all of us (including some of the offenders), and it's too much work for mods to keep splitting threads each time we go OT.