Friday 2010-08-27 Dev. update and Discussions
 

Evening gentlemen,

Another fruitful week comes to an end. Oleg's got a hell of a flu, so I'm doing a update for him. Apologies for making some of you suffer as you waited for your fix.

We've done a lot of stuff this week, enough for a few updates. Today we're focusing our new and improved aircrews.

Also a little bit of fancy flying (you can collide with each one of those wires).

boom first :)

cool guys flying these planes :) i like the look on his face parachuting down :)

the plane could have a few more polys. the contour is quite edgy. polysmooth+1 & optimize lawl :)

reboom second

Awesome (crap, have to wait 13 seconds to reply)

2nd place was stolen from me

Thanks for the Update

:)

Very nice screenshots but for the love of god start using AA + AF

This is looking so good; the crew look real! :D Question; will the effects for tracers be 3D or 2D (currently they are 2D in Il-2). I'd love to see how the tracers smoke trails could look and react in game.
Regarding fire; does it spread? This is too much to ask, I know, but I just wanted to know. I think I read somewhere that fire could spread and so I am curious if it starts out small and grows in size (as the fire in those shots looks lethal)

What
 

I think I saw Oleg bail out in that last image:grin:

Great images!

...I wonder if that last shot shows that the crew tumbles on their way down? :grin:

Awesome photos!!... Love te 4th one

Thank you for the post. Keep Going!
Good Job!

Wonderful screen caps....

I'M intrigued by the second photo...THE PILOT seems to be looking at the camera !!! I want to know more...it this a function of the AI?

THANKS !!!

Awesome pics.

The Reargunner in picture #4 seems to be shocked because he's still standing and imaginary holding the gun though it was blown away. ;)



Picture # 3: Why do these parents let their little child fly a hurricane?

The first pic gave me a feeling of vertigo!

Viking

Thanks for the update,
last picture I see aircrew exiting and freefalling in positions not unlike professional skydivers.
I think this so called frog position was invented much later when parachuting became a sport.
The an question.
will the problem be fixed that when one has a low opening and is les then three second from the ground but under fully opened canopy one is standardly still killed as in IL2?
I know for a fact that an open round canopy on opening will breathe once and then has its final decent rate.
I've seen people survive this sort of low openings without a scratch several times

look good

Thank you Luthier and Team for the update and hard work you are doing!! The pictures are looking better and better. I hope we don`t have to wait any longer to play this game.

Damn, second page....DAMN:evil:

Thanks Luthier.

Nice pictures.

Very nice screenshots!

I really like the first one. The colors look much better, not so pea green. Also I really like to see all the houses and buildings, along with some hedges in there. It's really starting to shape up and look real.

Also like the flame effects, they are getting better too. Would like to see them in motion (hint hint)

The pilot bailing out in the last picture lookeds like Adolf Hitler.

Alsot the crew in the Ju-88. I hope it's only a joke. I don't think that all german pilots had the Adolf's mustache...... However the pilots details look superb.

Man the planes look so awesome. Good work.

Yes they look like Adolf,
but Adolf Galland ;-)

If that is Oleg, you're in deep shit. No SoW for you :-P

The flames coming out of the wing of the Ju88 convey a real sense of speed and motion. Smoke looks very realistic as well. Coming along fine.
Has anyone else noted that Groucho Marx, flying the J88 cannot reach the rudder pedals? Only noticed it after enlarging the picture to 200%.

ahh those wires... that makes me want to test the damage modell of the planes :)

the crew looks great... and the planes are not low poly. i think they are fine. btw: the canopy of the ju88 isn't round in realife also, i think that was the very first post refering to.

I guess ic games is using pictures of team members for the pilot skins, at least maybe they did it in il2 :) so.. maybe it is oleg lol

just a little note: the wires of the radar station are not allways proper connected!

:)

S!

Nice one :) Thanks!

It truly is a 'Friday fix'! Without it, some suffer great anxiety and depression. :cry:

Great pictures! Great work! Can't wait for the finale! ;-)

Get well soon, Oleg!
 

Great update- the smoke and fire effects are really coming along- love the smoke! I really like how the bomber crew looks more lifelike- less stiff, looking out the side windows- and how they're tumbling as they bail out- excellent!

Thanks for the great update Luthier!

I would love to know if the game will support such things as barrage balloons attached to ships starting from August 7th or equip of 19th squadron: Spitfire Ibs, or Ju-88s using their blenheim-likeness to fake land and drop bombs while landing gear rising. Or the fact that at least once blenheim joined the junkers formation and started to shoot.

Was the Gladiator listed as a flyable? Ah well, it is now...

Looking good. Very good.

Thank you.

I suppose that little flame ball on the Ju 88 fuselage is a DeVilde round striking?

The Gladiator is a welcome sight! I love the fin-flash it wears!

Outstanding :rolleyes:

(Pict.3) Maybe the sprit muzzleflash on the wings of Ju-88 reseize(too big) and change color for more clear (Wip) :-P

But the seize of the plane and pilote, ground, building, boat is very good (I not compare to IL-2 too old engine..)



Thanks for update Luthier

Gûte arbeite camarden! :cool:

Excellent crew models/animations, they actually look like they're busy inside that Ju88.

The fire's origin point in the 4th shot looks like it is somewhat "artificially" placed on the wing (for lack of a better word), as if someone copy/pasted it on top of the wing and the textures overlap. However, the shape of the flames and the gradual transition from flame to smoke is the best i've seen. I guess that seeing it in motion will fix the small problem on where the fire starts, as it will shake and move and not be a still texture.

Great job as always, keep them coming and get well wishes to mr. Maddox :grin:

So the wires affect the damage model? Interesting. I remember from J-Kent's book One of the Few that he, as a test pilot, had a spell at testing what happened when certain A/C flew into wires, mostly from barrage balloons.
I would be amazed if you had, but I don't suppose you have recorded the physics of flying into wires etc.... :-P It's a really odd question, i know, but the general feeling that I can remember from getting from the results was that flying into the wires never really caused a lot of damage to the plane. Kent survived he ordeals anyway, so clearly it wasn't as dangerous as one may think.

Damn the smoke and fire in the 4th shot just look so good. I want to play so bad, can't wait to send those Krauts to the bottom of the channel!

Heh one thing I have learned from this shot is to be careful about flying just below and behind an 88 that I have just plastered, lest I get a canopy in the face.

Hope you get well soon Oleg.
Thanks for the update Luthier.

.....snooooooort


thx, that water is looking awesome

The propellors in these shots look like the kind that you see in a movie (or a photo). Is this deliberate? It'd be cool to choose between different looks for how the propellor displays in-game :-P

+1

Good idea philip.

Maybe is the real moving of propeller but it's not like in my mind.

1:>) Full propeller (Stock)

2:>) Light multiple pale fast moving.

3:>) Dark pale at low speed (Like U.I 1,2 *PropTex*)

I agree. Smoke and flames seem to have developed really well in the last few weeks.

Does this mean we'll be treated to more updates this week? Or is that just wishful thinking on my part? ;)

Great work 1c!

Goose bumps.......:) I wants me Hurri now!:rolleyes:

Thanks for update Luthier & Get well soon Oleg.

Thank you so much for your works, and for the Update this week Luthier.

Great Shoots.

And I CAN`T wait no longer for this nice great Game ;) but We must.:roll:...snief


Have a nice weekend. And relax

Hi Lutier and Teamwork guys!!

Nice update!

Just one request:

No more pilots or aircrews professionals or experts paratroopers!!!!!!!!!------

-----> They got an position or posture in the air when bail out very unnatural. They got a modern posture ( I have see it in 2 shots: when a pilot bail out from his Spit and this)

I have read (Heinz Knoke or Rudel books) and see in videos (youtube) that when a pilot bail out, he falls down in the air like a rag doll, spinning and rolling out of control dragged by the air stream and by the flow of air from the propeler of his plane.

I think that it is very important for realism in the sim.

S!

Nice Stuff
 

The crew looks very lifelike, you almost think that they will start to talk to each other.

Kudos. :grin:

Regards
Hunger

And Oleg ....Получить обратно к здоровью

Great update, love shot number 4 in particular.

Meant to ask, is the Gladiator going to be flyable?

yep!, he must be dead or already jump
http://i970.photobucket.com/albums/a...titled-1-1.jpg

Interestingly, the propellers in the first two shots don't look like that. :confused:

I figured out why buildings still look like lego land

There are no hedges or plant growth around any of the buildings. Hedges, bushes, are common decorative trim and would help integrate buildings with the land same with vines, moss, and dirt growing upwards on the buildings, I think I've seen moss on some of the building textures but I think they should be more pronounced, especially along the bottom.

Great pics!
Pics #3 & #4 make me wonder- just how did the crew of a Ju88 bail out?????

Nice update.
The sea loooks great today. Nice highlights.

The plane shine seems to have been perfected, it has looked very good in the past few updates.

I would prefer the Hurricane pilot to be immobile rather than placed too low in the cockpit. It is very noticeable.

Thanks for the update, it is always very welcome!

Hi,Luthier thanks for the update.
I´m curious about the way aircrew exit the damaged planes.
Did they actually "work" their way out of the plane or they do more like Il2 scaping thru the fuselage?

:-ppppp

Nice!
BTW,those pilots really resemble National Kid...

First off: Get well soon Oleg.

Regarding the new screenshots.

1. Coming together nicely. Everything starts to feel natural.
2. The Ju88 model does show its age, which is sad. Your Do215/17 already has modelled thickness for the hull and canopies, which the Ju88 doesn't have and results in a IL-2 look I had hoped not to see in SoW.
3. Will the aircrews on multi-crew crafts all have the same face? I thought they would not, but the screenshots lead us to believe otherwise.
4. Does the Ju88 skin shown in the shot show a bump map yet? It doesn't look like it. There is a hint of a specular map in the "bail-out" top shot, I believe, though.

On a personal note: Thanks for fixing the small glitches on the Bf110. Highly appreciated :)

Actually I think the flames in IL-2 look better. Sorry for this incongruous remark.

Judging from the fact that even in IL2 one could have multiple different faces for pilots and even import his own, i guess it's going to be the same with SoW. Maybe they just didn't care about inserting different faces, because they wanted us to focus more on how the crew moves, eg the bailout scene and the way the pilot looks around in the second picture? Just a thought. In any case, i think it's safe to assume that even when small details are concerned SoW will be at least on par with IL2. In that sense, i don't worry about missing features if i have seen those features in IL2, i'm sure they'll be included at some point.

As for the buildings, it might seem they lack randomized vegetation close to them, like small gardens, but the rest of the 1st picture is very interesting. You can clearly see that the field near the left edge of the picture exhibits plow lines, the fields are sufficiently different to prevent the repeating tile effect and they also have hedgerows around them. On the field visible just behind the buildings we can also see that they took care to mix different types of vegetation, as there's not only a circular row of bushes but an isolated tree as well and it also exhibits areas that lack grass coverage. I think we can safely lay the matter of vegetation to rest :grin:

What i'm really curious about is the tracers. They look a bit laser-like , but then again i'm sure so much research has gone into this that i can assume they are historically correct, plus the IL2 tracers also seemed strange to me when i first saw them.

I think that the whole package is coming along nicely and we've reached a point where we can't deduce much more from still images, in fact i'm guessing that a lot of misunderstandings arise from this fact. A lot of things that might look strange or funny in screenshots could be looking perfectly natural when seen in motion. This might be seen as an effort to coax the developers into providing some video goodness and in a sense it is, but it also shows how far the title has come during the last few months.
A short video showcasing some of the core elements would not only help to pacify the restless among us, but also fuel the excitement even more.

As far as i'm concerned, i don't even need to see full detail DX11 graphics glory if there's interesting stuff being done in the video. It doesn't even have to be combat footage if you ask me, just starting the aircraft up and taking it for a circuit around the airfield would reveal so much about the details and inner-workings of the new sim that it would be an absolute joy to watch (maybe that's why they don't show such things, to prevent the competition from knowing what kind of goodies it has).

If what we're seeing are low to medium detail graphics, i'm 100% certain that overall graphics quality will be near excellent. Sure, some things could still be improved, but graphics-wise it's good enough for me to go out and buy it this instant if i was to judge from graphics alone and it was available for sale.
The reason people get restless and nit-pick is because they've only been shown graphics thus far. That's what they focus on and since 90% of it ranges from very good to downright excellent, they'll start debating the size of individual leaves :grin:

In fact, i'm so satisfied with graphics that i've starting becoming much more curious about actual gameplay at this stage, namely the things that we didn't have in IL2. I can't help but wonder about things like the new complex engine management, radio communication and sound for example. I'm not apprehensive about it, i'm sure it will be done to an equally high standard, i just expect to be pleasantly surprised by these aspects of the sim and watching the whole community going "oooh" and "ahhh" over it all ;)

Judging from the rate at which progress occurs (we went from "these flames are weird" and "where's my hedgerows" to "these flames rock" and "terrain looks convincing" in the span of 2-3 updates), i'm going to be optimistic about it and hope that we'll finally see it during autumn. The more it improves the harder the wait becomes though, but such is the life of a hobbyist :grin:

http://forum.1cpublishing.eu/attachm...2&d=1282924241

Who allowed you guys to set a real Ju-88 on fire? Those things are rare these days you know. Tsk tsk...

BTW, make sure Oleg gets more vitamin C.

Thank you again for another great update.
Things are looking incredible as they have for a long time.

He’s not sick, he's inside the game! I knew it would come to this.:(

Exposure. First shots were paused at 1x speed, the others at 0.25x.

Yeah, he accidentally got set into different plane position, leaning back sports-car-driver style. I was really late with the update so I didn't want to waste more time asking him to be reset.

You're kidding, right? Look at the Il-2 Ju-88 model again. The BoB model has almost 10 times the number of polygons and 4x the texture.

I just took a screenshot of the Ju way, way too close (Oleg will be mad). All models have a finite level of detail - get close enough, and you will see the edges. Today's computers have nowhere near the power that can render a super-detailed model that distance.

The two guys in the front of the Ju-88 have different faces. They just both have a mustache.

There will be different heads and different faces, and all appearance of each crew member of every plane will be fully customizable.

Some questions put me in a temporary stupor sometime.

Yeah, there is a normal map on each of our models. Always been.

I do not mean to be offensive, so please try to accept my statements as mere observations.

1. Screen: Old model. Hull with no thickness and AlphaCut windows.
2. Screen: New model. Hull with no thickness and AlphaCut windows. Correct shapes and all, but still.
3. Screen: Your very own Do215. Hull thickness modelled and therefor can be shot that close without a problem.

I know that this is a result of the long development time and therefor there is no one who could be blamed for this. It is just something that will be noticed like the IL-2 Ju88 being out of shape and blocky compared to later twin engined planes like the A-20 or B-25.

As for the texture maps, the normal in the Do215 shot, in the "model viewer" environment, had strong and noticeable panel lines and rivets, something completely absent in the Ju88 shots, that is why I asked.

On screen #2 above, posted by Zorin, where are pilot's feet?

Really!!!
 

The pilot of the Ju-88 does not reach the ruder pedals with his legs!!!

I feel scared about the future of Sow-BoB...

Oleg please check the possibility to implement this technology in SoW-BoB:

olegs pc.. as said ofter here.. has very low performance (he uses THIS pc with intention i guess)... you see the textures are very blurry.. no one would paint textures like that in photoshop... they are downscaled in the wip pictures...

and if hes running on low graphic settings...then the plane modells are also with "low" settings. watch those and you see how many details the JU88 have: http://www.stg2immelmann.de/FeedItem...-Storm-of-War/
.. Oleg must be mad always to repeat that this is NOT the final graphic result..

one hint to luthier and oleg... please wrote just one line in every friday update. that THIS GRAPHICS ARE STILL WIP AND DO NOT REPRESENT THE QUALITY OF THE FINAL GAME... :)

re # 3: Why do these parents let their little child fly a hurricane?
LMAO

thks for up :)

That's just nuts :D

Now has Oleg merged his photographic interests to give us a virtual camera for screenshots complete with aperture, shutter and iso settings?

Dano; that's exactly what I was thinking! :eek: It's awesome that the propellor looks different on different game-speeds; I would love it if the player could choose (for a screenshot/movie perspective) different ways that the propellor could look like through different shutters ;)

Luthier; is prop refelction modelled? I ask as when I first saw this used in WoP I thought it was overdone, but after being to an airshow recently I noticed the reflection of the sun on the spinning prop quite vividly ;)

I think i remember a update that said something like this...and even more options like lighting and stuff just for when you take a sceenshot.

I personally like to compare the R-10 to the D.XXI ! :-P

However, it's always possible for 3-d models to be updated after release. Look at what DT has done to the Hs-129 for instance.

Still, that Ju-88 is incredible by most standards. I can only wonder how future models will appear.

Great update! Loveto see it as always

get well Oleg!

I was thinking along similar lines. I recently made the move to Win7 and was able to re-watch the 'leaked' Spitfire video, only this time on full screen, and it completely blew me away.

The thing is that it looks SO much higher quality than most of the screenshots we have seen - the three-dimensional realism and excellent lighting really comes out.

Is it because that video has been done in DX11 or DX10 mode with AA, while most of the screenshots are pretty rough quality (no AA,etc) DX9 ?

Interestingly the other video showing the British vehicle convoy looked much closer to the quality in the screenshots. Was that DX9 too or just much lower-res than the Spit video?

Still, it leads me to think that the final quality of all this when seen in motion in the game will be far ahead of what is hinted at in the screen shots.

I must agree that the Do17 looks to have very sharp textures. But this Ju88 is a major step forward with IL-2's Ju88.

Its true that the Ju88 only has alpha cut windows where the Do17 family has windows modelled into the 3D.

Scroll down to the 2005 pictures on this link, and look for the pictures of the Ju88 and Do17/215 together.

http://fooblog.mexxoft.com/category/...spiele/page/9/

Since both models seem to be a similar age, I would assume that when they where made there were not set guidelines for the modellers as to whether windows should be made with alpha cuts or modelled in 3D.

Its unfortunate to have this kind of difference in quality between two aircraft of such similar size and complexity, this is the kind of difference that would seem more reasonable between for example a Bf109 and a He111, or between a He111 and a Sunderland flying boat. Apart from the windows, the rest of the two models seem very close in quality, so I do think it was just the choice of the person making the model.

This is all I needed to see...

http://www.stg2immelmann.de/media/10...g/ju-87-02.jpg


Convinced :-P

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IKWPi8uHHoE

Video slideshow

Hmm... I'm still believing that this kind of frame thickness is useless in external model and waste of faces. In my eyes the Ju 88 is looking beautyful enough. Though I can't wait to see some ingame closeups from the Dornier.

Looks fantastic! Can't wait!

He111.

I'm tired of saying "wow". But WOW!

I shall don my flame suit:
The details some people are talking about just won't be noticed by the vast majority of players unless they are watching a replay or studying aircraft/aircrews in non-combat situations.

That's all very well and good but in combat, which is what I am hoping SoW excels at, there is no way I am going to notice a pilot's feet, his mustache, where he is looking, or his hand position. Am I really going to notice the level of hedge detail while following a Spit through a Split S?

As someone else said, I hope the same level of attention to detail has been put into the flight modeling, optimized frame rates, and actual game play. I would seriously hate to think that the release of SoW is being delayed even a week to "fix" such minor graphics details.

A gorgeous game with obvious functionality flaws would be like a beautiful woman with a low IQ....good for a weekend but not for a long term relationship :).

I have confidence the game play will be awesome, I just can't believe delays to fix such minor, largely irrelevant details are really warranted. (and I hope that's not the case).

The screenies are stunning and I think it's hilarious that the aircrews all look like Hitler lol. If it was intentional, good on ya!

Splitter

That is a bit like argueing why having a Prius is a good idea. It may have smart technology and all that, but at the end of the day you are looking at a hideous exterior and boring interior. Technology is there, working, but never really present.

So I could never settle for a Prius, cause I know that I could have a BMW diesel that out does it in every regard and is even as efficient while looking like a desireable car.

Therefor for SoW, the graphics need to be on par with the flight models and such, because this isn't a heating applience that only needs to do its job best it can without ever having to look at it, all you do is look at it primarely.

The game runs to choppy with those on ;)

Please; don't do weekly updates.

Do an update every other week that shows a video. Theses pictures, no offence, are boring without showing new features (this week is an exception). I hate seeing you take time out to put these together when you could be working on the game. A video once a month would be awesome and keep us entertained enough.

:cool:

I see that the crew model features a mustache. I think this should be an optional feature, selectable in SOW's equivalent of IL2's plane setup. Select fuel, convergence, bomb and rocket timer, skin, and mustache on/off. Or another idea would be to have a hotkey to turn mustaches on/off on any crew model. It could be something like Ctrl+M, or Ctrl+Shift+M for all mustaches.

Just my input.

Certainly - and hotkeys for brushing and waxing (gotta look good).
More seriously: What about monocles?

:D

Only for british, perhaps especially on navigators and bombardiers.

(Where do you stand on canes and tophats?)

Splitter - I agree with you 100%!!!

After seeing so many complains about the quality of a not-yet-releashed product, I make up my mind and join the fun.

First of all, thank you Oleg and Luthier for IL-2, THE great game that remains in my hard drive for over 7 years, and for SOW, the upcoming sim that makes my dream of flying almost true.

Second, for anyone who is still not satisfied with the weekly update pictures: you only see ONE part of the game, and this part is probably on LOWEST settings (sorry for the uppercase here, no intention of yelling, just want to make it clear).

Making game, like making any software, needs to be made in parts. The update pictures show us clearly, which part is being worked on. If today update is about aircraft, it's very likely that the terrain you see is only place holder. I personally bear no ill will against someone who detects the errors and shows them to the developer, in constrast, I believe it's very helpful and needed. Two eyes always see better than one. But any conclusion about the sim's quality is short-sighted and ridiculous if it's just based on analyse of WIP features (which can and must be changed several times), and worst, based on place holder features which will never make themselves to the releashed game.

I know most of you have high-end computer, so the eye candy aspect is probably your only concern. If some new games come to new life, your first quesion would be: "how does it look on highest settings?". Have you ever tried games like Company of heroes in the LOWEST settings? It looks like a completely different games: soldiers with box-like head, rifles like some firewood, tanks like they're made from plastic... But that's all what my stone-aged laptop can handle. And nevertheless I enjoyed every minutes playing this game, even more than some ego shooters who have 2000 Euro gaming laptop but know nothing about WW II. I'm convinced that what we see is on lowest settings:low resolution, level of details minimal, no AA, limited numbers of light sources, even simplified modell... everything that give someone like me the chance to enjoy a 2010 game.

With the current work of DT on IL-2, with their new features that were considered "impossible for 10 years old game engine" not long before, with their beautiful cockpits and modells but no FPS drop, I have complete faith in the ability as well as the qualify standard of any "Oleg games".

There's alway's a lot of critiscism of little graphical 'faults' when the update comes along.

It's easy to pick faults with a screenshot from any game, WIP or released. Ultimately it's the videos that will really show us what's happening. (Surley there must be something video wise soon?)

Sometimes I think that posting the stills is counterproductive because it gets down to very minor details very quickly as there's so little to see.

I think we've been spoilt with some pictures that show incredible details; I feel, though, that a video would just be awesome to detail some of the great new features. That would be enough to cover a load of updates, which clearly must be a nuisence for the team.

A video every 2 weeks instead of pictures and everybody should be happy.

And a video doesn't need more time to capture.

If you look closely, the guy jumping has even a little "hitler" mustache, LOL. Nice funny detail.:cool:

The screenshots look awesome, the radar station, the planes inflight, all very well done.

Common guys...WHAT ABOUT THIS: The pilot's legs do not reach the ruder pedals!
It is killing me!

Or may be the pilot is waiving his legs in to the air intentionally for some rest because of the long cross Chanel flight...

By all accounts the game isn't in Beta yet so a video may be some time coming.

BG don't worry they will fix that or sure ... it's Work In Progress don't forget ... I agree with Winny, I was thinking exactly the same.

cue Zapatista..........ah, here he comes now...;)


or maybe not...you might have got away with it Tree - maybe he's on holiday?! :confused:

It's the weekend. Get out and enjoy the sunshine. :cool:

I'd be happier seeing a crappy wireframe version of a dogfight with loads going on than a close up of something thats just flat in every sense.. (no matter how good it may be)

If you stare at even the most beautiful persons face for long enough you'll find fault, video would show us the games soul, give a better sense of the overall feel feel of it. What's going on inside.

That short video of the spitfire over the sea has told me more about what SoW is going to be than the screen shots. I've never seen a sim move quite like it.

I'm not hasseling anyone for videos by the way! In your own time!